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1st Mock Draft w/ offseason moves

Originally posted by MC9BEAT:
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
Originally posted by Ninefan56:
I would not see Baalke sacrificing a 1st round pick in the future - not like him, and not good policy to bankrupt the future when there are other quality players available. I could see Baalke trade up to get Clinton Dix of he were near enough, to settle the Safety spot. So we have plenty of picks to address each need that we have - SS, two CBs, Two WRs, OG, OT, C, RB, DT, ILB.

I don't see a need at ILB as bowman should be back by week 4. I think we have enough to get by until then. I don't see how we are sacrificing the future by getting rid of 1 1st round pick either. We get the OG of the future in amini, get 1 great prospect and 2 decent veterans at receiver, 1 great prospect at SS and C. Let's see what we have in Lattimore before we use a high pick on another RB, see if Williams is any better than dorsey who played well this year. OT was addressed IMO and I like what we have at corner with Cully coming back and Rogers gone. Thanks for your input though, this is my 1st mock and I'm sure it isn't quite up to par with some others.
Would be nice but not likely to happen. The #5 pick on the draft pick chart is worth aprox 1700 pts and the pick you trade, a future 1st a late 2nd and an early 3rd are basically worth about 1150-1200 pts. Oakland would be getting screwed. they probably wouldn't do it if they could have our 1st this year plus a 2nd and a 3rd.
With so many QB's slated to go early in the draft Oakland may feel a need to take one. Even if they don't other teams may make them much better offers to trade down to get 1 of those QB's.

I think you left our comp pick out. We have a compensatory pick coming which should be a 3rd or 4th round pick giving us a total of 7 picks in the 1st 4 rounds.

Would love to have Sammy Watkins.

I didn't know where exactly the comp pick was so I just left it out, I would probably use it at corner though.

I don't know anything about the point system but I explained in above posts why I think the trade could happen. I think this draft is more likely to happen than others where I see posters drafting 14+ players.

I also see the qbs getting scooped up in the 1st 4 picks, at least manziel and bridgewater but probably bortles too. I also don't think a team will go all out for carr.

Can you tell me what the point system was on oakland's trade down last year and the 49er's trade up last year? I would appreciate it.

This also wouldn't be the 1st time oakland f**ked themselves in the draft.
Originally posted by RishikeshA:
Watkins is a long shot at best and if it did happen our #1 would be part of the deal.


Why? Our 1st round pick next year has a better chance of being higher than our pick this year.. I mean the chances of us getting to 4 straight nfc championships is pretty slim.. I think we will do it and win it all but other teams probably think differently.
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
Wow, that is an interesting stat that I have not heard about before. I did not know that about Watkins. That is quite interesting.
I hope this Mock draft does not come true.

Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
Originally posted by JR80Forever:
I read your post. 1st 3 thoughts that popped in my head:

#1 Boldin is so important to resign it could make or break the offseason.

#2 All your FA signings are way underpaid. No way Henne, Kuhn, Sanders and Jones come here that cheap.

#3 Sammy Watkins you can forget about. I read something on Watkins that stated 59% of his catches come on designed screens. That right there should tell you the 49ers wont be drafting this guy, never mind giving up future picks.


Wow, that is an interesting stat that I have not heard about before. I did not know that about Watkins. That is quite interesting.
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
Originally posted by MC9BEAT:
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
Originally posted by Ninefan56:
I would not see Baalke sacrificing a 1st round pick in the future - not like him, and not good policy to bankrupt the future when there are other quality players available. I could see Baalke trade up to get Clinton Dix of he were near enough, to settle the Safety spot. So we have plenty of picks to address each need that we have - SS, two CBs, Two WRs, OG, OT, C, RB, DT, ILB.

I don't see a need at ILB as bowman should be back by week 4. I think we have enough to get by until then. I don't see how we are sacrificing the future by getting rid of 1 1st round pick either. We get the OG of the future in amini, get 1 great prospect and 2 decent veterans at receiver, 1 great prospect at SS and C. Let's see what we have in Lattimore before we use a high pick on another RB, see if Williams is any better than dorsey who played well this year. OT was addressed IMO and I like what we have at corner with Cully coming back and Rogers gone. Thanks for your input though, this is my 1st mock and I'm sure it isn't quite up to par with some others.
Would be nice but not likely to happen. The #5 pick on the draft pick chart is worth aprox 1700 pts and the pick you trade, a future 1st a late 2nd and an early 3rd are basically worth about 1150-1200 pts. Oakland would be getting screwed. they probably wouldn't do it if they could have our 1st this year plus a 2nd and a 3rd.
With so many QB's slated to go early in the draft Oakland may feel a need to take one. Even if they don't other teams may make them much better offers to trade down to get 1 of those QB's.

I think you left our comp pick out. We have a compensatory pick coming which should be a 3rd or 4th round pick giving us a total of 7 picks in the 1st 4 rounds.

Would love to have Sammy Watkins.

I didn't know where exactly the comp pick was so I just left it out, I would probably use it at corner though.

I don't know anything about the point system but I explained in above posts why I think the trade could happen. I think this draft is more likely to happen than others where I see posters drafting 14+ players.

I also see the qbs getting scooped up in the 1st 4 picks, at least manziel and bridgewater but probably bortles too. I also don't think a team will go all out for carr.

Can you tell me what the point system was on oakland's trade down last year and the 49er's trade up last year? I would appreciate it.

This also wouldn't be the 1st time oakland f**ked themselves in the draft.
There is a draft chart at the top of the draft war room section.

Baalke is great at getting the better of GM's in draft trades. Still, for a QB or if Sammy Watkins is sitting there Oakland could probably drop back 10 spots and get a 2nd rounder from someone who wanted either. A better 2nd rounder than 1 of our late ones. That would put them at 15 and they could move back another 6 spots and get a 3rd rounder and still be sitting at the 21st pick this year instead of around 30 next year in the 1st round and get their extra 2nd and 3rd. Top ten picks are hard to acquire. Maybe for 2 1st rounders but even that would be light because they know they would be very late picks. Remember, the Raiders pick again 6 picks after our 1st rounder. Our 1st round pick isn't worth much more than their 2nd rounder. If they don't take a QB they will probably want Watkins for themselves. To pass on that they will want a lot.
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
Why? Our 1st round pick next year has a better chance of being higher than our pick this year.. I mean the chances of us getting to 4 straight nfc championships is pretty slim.. I think we will do it and win it all but other teams probably think differently.

The Raiders front office and coach have to show results now. Their jobs are on the with this draft.
Originally posted by MC9BEAT:
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
Originally posted by MC9BEAT:
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
Originally posted by Ninefan56:
I would not see Baalke sacrificing a 1st round pick in the future - not like him, and not good policy to bankrupt the future when there are other quality players available. I could see Baalke trade up to get Clinton Dix of he were near enough, to settle the Safety spot. So we have plenty of picks to address each need that we have - SS, two CBs, Two WRs, OG, OT, C, RB, DT, ILB.

I don't see a need at ILB as bowman should be back by week 4. I think we have enough to get by until then. I don't see how we are sacrificing the future by getting rid of 1 1st round pick either. We get the OG of the future in amini, get 1 great prospect and 2 decent veterans at receiver, 1 great prospect at SS and C. Let's see what we have in Lattimore before we use a high pick on another RB, see if Williams is any better than dorsey who played well this year. OT was addressed IMO and I like what we have at corner with Cully coming back and Rogers gone. Thanks for your input though, this is my 1st mock and I'm sure it isn't quite up to par with some others.
Would be nice but not likely to happen. The #5 pick on the draft pick chart is worth aprox 1700 pts and the pick you trade, a future 1st a late 2nd and an early 3rd are basically worth about 1150-1200 pts. Oakland would be getting screwed. they probably wouldn't do it if they could have our 1st this year plus a 2nd and a 3rd.
With so many QB's slated to go early in the draft Oakland may feel a need to take one. Even if they don't other teams may make them much better offers to trade down to get 1 of those QB's.

I think you left our comp pick out. We have a compensatory pick coming which should be a 3rd or 4th round pick giving us a total of 7 picks in the 1st 4 rounds.

Would love to have Sammy Watkins.

I didn't know where exactly the comp pick was so I just left it out, I would probably use it at corner though.

I don't know anything about the point system but I explained in above posts why I think the trade could happen. I think this draft is more likely to happen than others where I see posters drafting 14+ players.

I also see the qbs getting scooped up in the 1st 4 picks, at least manziel and bridgewater but probably bortles too. I also don't think a team will go all out for carr.

Can you tell me what the point system was on oakland's trade down last year and the 49er's trade up last year? I would appreciate it.

This also wouldn't be the 1st time oakland f**ked themselves in the draft.
There is a draft chart at the top of the draft war room section.

Baalke is great at getting the better of GM's in draft trades. Still, for a QB or if Sammy Watkins is sitting there Oakland could probably drop back 10 spots and get a 2nd rounder from someone who wanted either. A better 2nd rounder than 1 of our late ones. That would put them at 15 and they could move back another 6 spots and get a 3rd rounder and still be sitting at the 21st pick this year instead of around 30 next year in the 1st round and get their extra 2nd and 3rd. Top ten picks are hard to acquire. Maybe for 2 1st rounders but even that would be light because they know they would be very late picks. Remember, the Raiders pick again 6 picks after our 1st rounder. Our 1st round pick isn't worth much more than their 2nd rounder. If they don't take a QB they will probably want Watkins for themselves. To pass on that they will want a lot.


Thanks and you bring up very good points.. The only thing I disagree with is that your assuming the pick will be the 30th next year too. It probably will be but it also could be the 5th pick if we have some major injuries. Then that pick would also be worth 1700 points or w/e, you have a better chance of improving your team with 3 quality picks than with 1, and the raiders have A LOT of needs. If other offers aren't on the table for the raiders like last year then this trade could happen.
[ Edited by JimDrinkAMiller on Feb 5, 2014 at 11:45 PM ]
Originally posted by RishikeshA:
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
Why? Our 1st round pick next year has a better chance of being higher than our pick this year.. I mean the chances of us getting to 4 straight nfc championships is pretty slim.. I think we will do it and win it all but other teams probably think differently.

The Raiders front office and coach have to show results now. Their jobs are on the with this draft.

They have to show results in the season. They aren't going to be fired for trading for more picks in the draft, even if it does seem like a bad trade. They have a lot of holes to fill and can't fill them all in one draft and FA even with 60 mil in cap room.. Their division like ours is just too strong.
  • xcfan
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 1,567
oakland's not going for that. that's passing on a difference maker for three pieces of ok.
Originally posted by xcfan:
oakland's not going for that. that's passing on a difference maker for three pieces of ok.

How do you know those players will only be ok? All 3 players could be busts or all stars, just like their #5 pick.
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
Originally posted by MC9BEAT:
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
Originally posted by MC9BEAT:
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
Originally posted by Ninefan56:
I would not see Baalke sacrificing a 1st round pick in the future - not like him, and not good policy to bankrupt the future when there are other quality players available. I could see Baalke trade up to get Clinton Dix of he were near enough, to settle the Safety spot. So we have plenty of picks to address each need that we have - SS, two CBs, Two WRs, OG, OT, C, RB, DT, ILB.

I don't see a need at ILB as bowman should be back by week 4. I think we have enough to get by until then. I don't see how we are sacrificing the future by getting rid of 1 1st round pick either. We get the OG of the future in amini, get 1 great prospect and 2 decent veterans at receiver, 1 great prospect at SS and C. Let's see what we have in Lattimore before we use a high pick on another RB, see if Williams is any better than dorsey who played well this year. OT was addressed IMO and I like what we have at corner with Cully coming back and Rogers gone. Thanks for your input though, this is my 1st mock and I'm sure it isn't quite up to par with some others.
Would be nice but not likely to happen. The #5 pick on the draft pick chart is worth aprox 1700 pts and the pick you trade, a future 1st a late 2nd and an early 3rd are basically worth about 1150-1200 pts. Oakland would be getting screwed. they probably wouldn't do it if they could have our 1st this year plus a 2nd and a 3rd.
With so many QB's slated to go early in the draft Oakland may feel a need to take one. Even if they don't other teams may make them much better offers to trade down to get 1 of those QB's.

I think you left our comp pick out. We have a compensatory pick coming which should be a 3rd or 4th round pick giving us a total of 7 picks in the 1st 4 rounds.

Would love to have Sammy Watkins.

I didn't know where exactly the comp pick was so I just left it out, I would probably use it at corner though.

I don't know anything about the point system but I explained in above posts why I think the trade could happen. I think this draft is more likely to happen than others where I see posters drafting 14+ players.

I also see the qbs getting scooped up in the 1st 4 picks, at least manziel and bridgewater but probably bortles too. I also don't think a team will go all out for carr.

Can you tell me what the point system was on oakland's trade down last year and the 49er's trade up last year? I would appreciate it.

This also wouldn't be the 1st time oakland f**ked themselves in the draft.
There is a draft chart at the top of the draft war room section.

Baalke is great at getting the better of GM's in draft trades. Still, for a QB or if Sammy Watkins is sitting there Oakland could probably drop back 10 spots and get a 2nd rounder from someone who wanted either. A better 2nd rounder than 1 of our late ones. That would put them at 15 and they could move back another 6 spots and get a 3rd rounder and still be sitting at the 21st pick this year instead of around 30 next year in the 1st round and get their extra 2nd and 3rd. Top ten picks are hard to acquire. Maybe for 2 1st rounders but even that would be light because they know they would be very late picks. Remember, the Raiders pick again 6 picks after our 1st rounder. Our 1st round pick isn't worth much more than their 2nd rounder. If they don't take a QB they will probably want Watkins for themselves. To pass on that they will want a lot.


Thanks and you bring up very good points.. The only thing I disagree with is that your assuming the pick will be the 30th next year too. It probably will be but it also could be the 5th pick if we have some major injuries. Then that pick would also be worth 1700 points or w/e, you have a better chance of improving your team with 3 quality picks than with 1, and the raiders have A LOT of needs. If other offers aren't on the table for the raiders like last year then this trade could happen.
The raiders would be trading the 5th pick in the draft for a late 2nd and early 3rd this year. How does that make them a better team? That would be a step back for this season and THEY would assume up front the 1st rounder next year would be a late pick and it's next year so they have to wait for it to boot. It's possible they would consider it if we gave them this year's 1st rounder plus the 2nd and 3rd in place of next years but even then it would be a long shot.

Anything is possible. Maybe they would swap 1st rounders with us if we were to throw in LaMichael James and Quinton Dial but I doubt it. They probably covet Sammy Watkins as much as we would and I guarantee others would too. If they look to trade the pick they will get way better offers.

If we were trading for seattle's or denver's 1st rounder next year we would assume for value's sake the pick would be a late pick wouldn't we?

As for the 3 quality picks. A good GM could trade the 5th pick back to the end of the 1st round and get way more than 2 more quality picks.

There is always the hope they have brain damage but it is unlikely. If it were close maybe. Maybe we could get them to go for it if we gave them both 2nd rounders plus a 3rd and next years 1st. If you really want Watkins you are going to have to hope he falls in the draft to around 12th or so to put it in reach. I doubt Watkins is even on the 49ers radar because of what it would cost to get him.
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller: For starters Julio Jones was a better prospect IMO than Sammy Watkins. For 2 Baalke is a smarter GM than to break the bank like Atlanta did. You brought up a good example but so did I. Like I said we moved up 13 spots last year by only giving up a 3rd round pick, who's to say we can't move up an additional 12 picks this year by giving up a 2nd too? Oakland moved down 9 spots last draft and only gained a 2nd round pick so I don't see why they wouldn't make a trade that gives them 2 1st rounders next season and 2 more high picks this season for a team that is rebuilding.

Atlanta did NOT break the bank. What they offered was equal value for what the trade value chart deems the worth of the 6th overall pick. A future 1st round pick's is deemed 2nd round value when trading on draft day, and getting a late 2nd and mid 3rd round pick along with it is terrible value for the Raiders. They could very well stand pat and select from a variety of players, be it a QB they covet, Clowney should he slip (he does has some red flags that teams will be looking into so it isn't crazy to think he could fall this far), Anthony Barr or Khalil Mack, Watkins or perhaps one of the elite LT prospects (Matthews or Robinson should they be unable to agree to terms with Veldheer).

Oakland has the leverage at this point not us, and they don't have to trade down to accumulate more picks especially if they feel strongly about one of the top shelf prospects. Trading out of the first round entirely for a team with as many holes as they possess and being in rebuilding mode means they better get a darn good deal because they would be passing on all of the top prospects from this class. GM's do get fired (and deservedly so) for making incredibly poor decisions like this. If Baalke traded away the 7th pick for a future first (from a team likely to be picking again on the back end the following year), a late 2nd and mid 3rd people here would have been calling for his head.



Emmanuel Sanders won't demand much more than 5 mil a year. What he demands and what he signs for are 2 completely different things. He's coming off a season which he only had 740 receiving yards.

Arthur Jonnes had 4 sacks last year and a pretty good year. He might ask for more money but if he wants the chance to play for a contender than he will sign for less. We got Dorsey for a steal so why wouldn't we be able to do the same with jones?

As far as Rogers goes.. We know the 49ers have made a habit of overpaying for free agent corners. There was Rogers and there was also Clements some years back. They won't make the same mistake with brown. Brown is good but not great. The 49ers tried to make it right with brown after he got screwed by his former agent, so Brown might take less money to stay with a contender as well.

Talib, one of the best corners in the league was only making 5 mil a year last year and brown is NOT the caliber player that Talib is.

Thanks for the critique but do me a favor and stop acting like you have some inside knowledge into what GMs will or will not do, or will or will not trade. You like the rest of us can only guess.

Talib signing to a 1 year 5 million dollar deal is not comparable to Brown because Talib had numerous known off the field issues which means teams are weary and about investing a boatload in his services. Brown will almost certainly get more than Tramaine Brock's 4 year 16 million dollar deal.

Regarding your statistics, NFL team don't look those up on NFL.com when evaluating free agents, they care more about what they see on tape. Arthur Jones was a good 3-4 DL, who are not known for big statistical numbers. At 3 years, 7.5 million Baltimore could afford to keep him, so why would he choose us over them when he would not be starting here but would be there ? Not to mention there are other contenders out there who can offer him more than 3 years at 7.5 mill to start for them.

Same for Sanders. He can stay in Pittsburgh for the same money your fantasy is signing him for, where he knows the organization : players, coaches, scheme as well as the city and fans. Or he can go to a team who can offer a bigger money deal. Players leave contenders for pretenders every year for bigger and better paydays. Sanders 740 yards + 6 TD's were on par with Steve Smith and Doug Baldwin and better than those of Dwayne Bowe & Roddy White. Sanders numbers this season are eerily similar to those of Antonio Browns from last season who saw a decline in his numbers after producing 1000+ yards in his sophomore season. Game tape shows Sanders is a much better player than his stats indicated and someone will offer a better deal than 3 years at 10 mill.

You tell us to stop acting like we know, but there you sit defending your post like you know. It goes both ways but those of us who are trying to tell you otherwise are basing are arguments off of logic and facts that we see in the everyday NFL.

Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
How do you know those players will only be ok? All 3 players could be busts or all stars, just like their #5 pick.

There is a far great chance of drafting an impact player at 5 than there is at 56 or 77. Especially when you factor in that Oakland NEEDS a franchise QB and could be passing on one at 5 for terrible value.
[ Edited by KRS-1 on Feb 6, 2014 at 8:08 AM ]
Terrible mock, so unrealistic. How s about we get Clowney w the 30th pick, and then pick up Sammy watkins and Dennard in the 2nd?
Originally posted by MC9BEAT:
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
Originally posted by MC9BEAT:
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
Originally posted by MC9BEAT:
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
Originally posted by Ninefan56:
I would not see Baalke sacrificing a 1st round pick in the future - not like him, and not good policy to bankrupt the future when there are other quality players available. I could see Baalke trade up to get Clinton Dix of he were near enough, to settle the Safety spot. So we have plenty of picks to address each need that we have - SS, two CBs, Two WRs, OG, OT, C, RB, DT, ILB.

I don't see a need at ILB as bowman should be back by week 4. I think we have enough to get by until then. I don't see how we are sacrificing the future by getting rid of 1 1st round pick either. We get the OG of the future in amini, get 1 great prospect and 2 decent veterans at receiver, 1 great prospect at SS and C. Let's see what we have in Lattimore before we use a high pick on another RB, see if Williams is any better than dorsey who played well this year. OT was addressed IMO and I like what we have at corner with Cully coming back and Rogers gone. Thanks for your input though, this is my 1st mock and I'm sure it isn't quite up to par with some others.
Would be nice but not likely to happen. The #5 pick on the draft pick chart is worth aprox 1700 pts and the pick you trade, a future 1st a late 2nd and an early 3rd are basically worth about 1150-1200 pts. Oakland would be getting screwed. they probably wouldn't do it if they could have our 1st this year plus a 2nd and a 3rd.
With so many QB's slated to go early in the draft Oakland may feel a need to take one. Even if they don't other teams may make them much better offers to trade down to get 1 of those QB's.

I think you left our comp pick out. We have a compensatory pick coming which should be a 3rd or 4th round pick giving us a total of 7 picks in the 1st 4 rounds.

Would love to have Sammy Watkins.

I didn't know where exactly the comp pick was so I just left it out, I would probably use it at corner though.

I don't know anything about the point system but I explained in above posts why I think the trade could happen. I think this draft is more likely to happen than others where I see posters drafting 14+ players.

I also see the qbs getting scooped up in the 1st 4 picks, at least manziel and bridgewater but probably bortles too. I also don't think a team will go all out for carr.

Can you tell me what the point system was on oakland's trade down last year and the 49er's trade up last year? I would appreciate it.

This also wouldn't be the 1st time oakland f**ked themselves in the draft.
There is a draft chart at the top of the draft war room section.

Baalke is great at getting the better of GM's in draft trades. Still, for a QB or if Sammy Watkins is sitting there Oakland could probably drop back 10 spots and get a 2nd rounder from someone who wanted either. A better 2nd rounder than 1 of our late ones. That would put them at 15 and they could move back another 6 spots and get a 3rd rounder and still be sitting at the 21st pick this year instead of around 30 next year in the 1st round and get their extra 2nd and 3rd. Top ten picks are hard to acquire. Maybe for 2 1st rounders but even that would be light because they know they would be very late picks. Remember, the Raiders pick again 6 picks after our 1st rounder. Our 1st round pick isn't worth much more than their 2nd rounder. If they don't take a QB they will probably want Watkins for themselves. To pass on that they will want a lot.


Thanks and you bring up very good points.. The only thing I disagree with is that your assuming the pick will be the 30th next year too. It probably will be but it also could be the 5th pick if we have some major injuries. Then that pick would also be worth 1700 points or w/e, you have a better chance of improving your team with 3 quality picks than with 1, and the raiders have A LOT of needs. If other offers aren't on the table for the raiders like last year then this trade could happen.
The raiders would be trading the 5th pick in the draft for a late 2nd and early 3rd this year. How does that make them a better team? That would be a step back for this season and THEY would assume up front the 1st rounder next year would be a late pick and it's next year so they have to wait for it to boot. It's possible they would consider it if we gave them this year's 1st rounder plus the 2nd and 3rd in place of next years but even then it would be a long shot.

Anything is possible. Maybe they would swap 1st rounders with us if we were to throw in LaMichael James and Quinton Dial but I doubt it. They probably covet Sammy Watkins as much as we would and I guarantee others would too. If they look to trade the pick they will get way better offers.

If we were trading for seattle's or denver's 1st rounder next year we would assume for value's sake the pick would be a late pick wouldn't we?

As for the 3 quality picks. A good GM could trade the 5th pick back to the end of the 1st round and get way more than 2 more quality picks.

There is always the hope they have brain damage but it is unlikely. If it were close maybe. Maybe we could get them to go for it if we gave them both 2nd rounders plus a 3rd and next years 1st. If you really want Watkins you are going to have to hope he falls in the draft to around 12th or so to put it in reach. I doubt Watkins is even on the 49ers radar because of what it would cost to get him.

Again they are building for the future. I don't think any impact player in this draft could get the raiders to the playoffs in the division they play in, assuming peyton plays again next year.

The raiders don't have a good gm. Look what he did last year. Traded down 9 spots and then took a corner who had major health concerns.

If I traded for seattle's 1st round pick than I would assume it would be a better pick than this year. You have no spots to go down but 32 spots to go up. Therefor IMO Seattle's pick next year would automatically be more valuable than this year. That's the problem I see with the point system.

As far as the 49ers go.. We have been in the nfc championship for 3 years in a row and most of those years we were lucky to not sustain too many key injuries. One could only hope we are that fortunate again this year. I would think a GM would see our pick next year as more valuable because again we're picking 30th this year and have 29 spots we could move up as opposed to only 2 spots we could slide down. Not to mention we are in the toughest division in football and the rams are going to get a hell of a lot better in this draft.
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
For starters Julio Jones was a better prospect IMO than Sammy Watkins. For 2 Baalke is a smarter GM than to break the bank like Atlanta did. You brought up a good example but so did I. Like I said we moved up 13 spots last year by only giving up a 3rd round pick, who's to say we can't move up an additional 12 picks this year by giving up a 2nd too? Oakland moved down 9 spots last draft and only gained a 2nd round pick so I don't see why they wouldn't make a trade that gives them 2 1st rounders next season and 2 more high picks this season for a team that is rebuilding.

Atlanta did NOT break the bank. What they offered was equal value for what the trade value chart deems the worth of the 6th overall pick. A future 1st round pick's is deemed 2nd round value when trading on draft day, and getting a late 2nd and mid 3rd round pick along with it is terrible value for the Raiders. They could very well stand pat and select from a variety of players, be it a QB they covet, Clowney should he slip (he does has some red flags that teams will be looking into so it isn't crazy to think he could fall this far), Anthony Barr or Khalil Mack, Watkins or perhaps one of the elite LT prospects (Matthews or Robinson should they be unable to agree to terms with Veldheer).

Oakland has the leverage at this point not us, and they don't have to trade down to accumulate more picks especially if they feel strongly about one of the top shelf prospects. Trading out of the first round entirely for a team with as many holes as they possess and being in rebuilding mode means they better get a darn good deal because they would be passing on all of the top prospects from this class. GM's do get fired (and deservedly so) for making incredibly poor decisions like this. If Baalke traded away the 7th pick for a future first (from a team likely to be picking again on the back end the following year), a late 2nd and mid 3rd people here would have been calling for his head.


Emmanuel Sanders won't demand much more than 5 mil a year. What he demands and what he signs for are 2 completely different things. He's coming off a season which he only had 740 receiving yards.

Arthur Jonnes had 4 sacks last year and a pretty good year. He might ask for more money but if he wants the chance to play for a contender than he will sign for less. We got Dorsey for a steal so why wouldn't we be able to do the same with jones?

As far as Rogers goes.. We know the 49ers have made a habit of overpaying for free agent corners. There was Rogers and there was also Clements some years back. They won't make the same mistake with brown. Brown is good but not great. The 49ers tried to make it right with brown after he got screwed by his former agent, so Brown might take less money to stay with a contender as well.

Talib, one of the best corners in the league was only making 5 mil a year last year and brown is NOT the caliber player that Talib is.

Thanks for the critique but do me a favor and stop acting like you have some inside knowledge into what GMs will or will not do, or will or will not trade. You like the rest of us can only guess.

Talib signing to a 1 year 5 million dollar deal is not comparable to Brown because Talib had numerous known off the field issues which means teams are weary and about investing a boatload in his services. Brown will almost certainly get more than Tramaine Brock's 4 year 16 million dollar deal.

Regarding your statistics, NFL team don't look those up on NFL.com when evaluating free agents, they care more about what they see on tape. Arthur Jones was a good 3-4 DL, who are not known for big statistical numbers. At 3 years, 7.5 million Baltimore could afford to keep him, so why would he choose us over them when he would not be starting here but would be there ? Not to mention there are other contenders out there who can offer him more than 3 years at 7.5 mill to start for them.

Same for Sanders. He can stay in Pittsburgh for the same money your fantasy is signing him for, where he knows the organization : players, coaches, scheme as well as the city and fans. Or he can go to a team who can offer a bigger money deal. Players leave contenders for pretenders every year for bigger and better paydays. Sanders 740 yards + 6 TD's were on par with Steve Smith and Doug Baldwin and better than those of Dwayne Bowe & Roddy White. Sanders numbers this season are eerily similar to those of Antonio Browns from last season who saw a decline in his numbers after producing 1000+ yards in his sophomore season. Game tape shows Sanders is a much better player than his stats indicated and someone will offer a better deal than 3 years at 10 mill.

You tell us to stop acting like we know, but there you sit defending your post like you know. It goes both ways but those of us who are trying to tell you otherwise are basing are arguments off of logic and facts that we see in the everyday NFL.

Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
How do you know those players will only be ok? All 3 players could be busts or all stars, just like their #5 pick.

There is a far great chance of drafting an impact player at 5 than there is at 56 or 77. Especially when you factor in that Oakland NEEDS a franchise QB and could be passing on one at 5 for terrible value.

There is a much better chance of improving your team and filling more holes with 2 selections early in the draft this year and a 1st rounder next year, and your still going to get your impact player but it will be a year late. Your acting like Oakland is 1 impact player away from going to the playoffs. While anything could happen it is very unlikely in that division. The players that have the best shot at helping Oakland now would be manziel or maybe bridgewater but with so many qb needy teams before them it is unlikely Oakland will get those players, not to mention the teams behind them that need a qb and could trade up.

I have just as much logics and facts in my posts as you do. Just because my bar isn't all red like yours doesn't mean s**t.

Dwayne Bowe and Roddy White did not look like themselves this year. Roddy White was injured majority of the year and idk what was going on with bowe, maybe some of it was smith. So sanders had a better year than one of their down years, big deal. Your acting like he is a better receiver than those 2 and that is clearly not the case. Again someone might offer him more than 3 years 10 mil but if he wants a good chance at a ring than he'll take less. He could look for the most money possible sure, but he could also take less and play with a contender. Please stop acting like sanders is a #1 caliber receiver when he was the 3rd receiver for most of his career.

When we signed Dorsey he was going to be a backup for us. I would think at least 1 team offered him more money and at least 1 other team offered him a starter position or an opportunity to start. He decided to sign with us for a team friendly deal and the chance at getting to a superbowl. Why would Arthur Jones choose us over the ravens? Maybe he wants to play on a better team, maybe he likes the cali weather. Your assuming that he has no chance to start but he could very well start. You give that player a chance to compete with the starter and let the best man win.

Isn't raymac coming off of an injury where he lost some strength in one of his biceps? Arthur Jones like you said played damn well last year for a 3-4 defensive end. Maybe the contract was on the cheap side, but unless you can tell me definitively who he will sign with and why than you can't tell me it WON'T happen.

Ok so talib has had some issues but he is still more talented than brown. How about B flowers who made 5.25 this year? Or cromartie at 4.3? Out of all the corners in the NFL only 13 make more than 5 mil a year. Do you think brown deserves to be one of those corners? I doubt a team is going to offer him much more than the 49ers and he will probably take a little less and stay with us.
http://www.spotrac.com/rankings/nfl/cornerback/limit-100/
Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
Again they are building for the future. I don't think any impact player in this draft could get the raiders to the playoffs in the division they play in, assuming peyton plays again next year.

The raiders don't have a good gm. Look what he did last year. Traded down 9 spots and then took a corner who had major health concerns.

If I traded for seattle's 1st round pick than I would assume it would be a better pick than this year. You have no spots to go down but 32 spots to go up. Therefor IMO Seattle's pick next year would automatically be more valuable than this year. That's the problem I see with the point system.

As far as the 49ers go.. We have been in the nfc championship for 3 years in a row and most of those years we were lucky to not sustain too many key injuries. One could only hope we are that fortunate again this year. I would think a GM would see our pick next year as more valuable because again we're picking 30th this year and have 29 spots we could move up as opposed to only 2 spots we could slide down. Not to mention we are in the toughest division in football and the rams are going to get a hell of a lot better in this draft.

It is not about getting an impact player who the Raiders hope could get them to the playoffs this year...it's about getting impact players on their roster period. And quite possibly a franchise QB at 5.

As far as Reggie McKenzie being a good or bad GM, it's too early to truly tell and he has been working with a serious handicap through his first two years on the job. While he did reach on his 1st round pick and while he didn't get a great value on that trade down with Miami, one has to look at the whole picture here. His first year as GM he did not have any first or 2nd round picks, and last year he had no 2nd round picks. He took over a franchise in salary cap hell. His first 2 picks last year left a lot to desire, but there is still plenty of time for both to improve and grow, however he did find LB'er Sio Moore and perhaps a diamond in the rough in 6th round TE Mychal Rivera. Both Hayden and Watson were very raw prospects but had high upsides. This is his make or break year as GM, 60+ million in cap space and all but one of their draft picks in this class (their 5th round pick belongs to Seattle as part of the Flynn trade and they do have an additonal 7th from the Palmer trade). He won't be making any Madden trades this year with his job potentially on line.

What you think of future first round picks is your opinion, but is widely known and commonly mentioned that future 1st round picks are valued by NFL teams as being worth the 32nd or 33rd pick of the draft. Team are not in the business of assuming or trying to assume where the pick might fall the next year. Thus it possesses little to no current value.

Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:
There is a much better chance of improving your team and filling more holes with 2 selections early in the draft this year and a 1st rounder next year, and your still going to get your impact player but it will be a year late. Your acting like Oakland is 1 impact player away from going to the playoffs. While anything could happen it is very unlikely in that division. The players that have the best shot at helping Oakland now would be manziel or maybe bridgewater but with so many qb needy teams before them it is unlikely Oakland will get those players, not to mention the teams behind them that need a qb and could trade up.

I have just as much logics and facts in my posts as you do. Just because my bar isn't all red like yours doesn't mean s**t.

Dwayne Bowe and Roddy White did not look like themselves this year. Roddy White was injured majority of the year and idk what was going on with bowe, maybe some of it was smith. So sanders had a better year than one of their down years, big deal. Your acting like he is a better receiver than those 2 and that is clearly not the case. Again someone might offer him more than 3 years 10 mil but if he wants a good chance at a ring than he'll take less. He could look for the most money possible sure, but he could also take less and play with a contender. Please stop acting like sanders is a #1 caliber receiver when he was the 3rd receiver for most of his career.

When we signed Dorsey he was going to be a backup for us. I would think at least 1 team offered him more money and at least 1 other team offered him a starter position or an opportunity to start. He decided to sign with us for a team friendly deal and the chance at getting to a superbowl. Why would Arthur Jones choose us over the ravens? Maybe he wants to play on a better team, maybe he likes the cali weather. Your assuming that he has no chance to start but he could very well start. You give that player a chance to compete with the starter and let the best man win.

Isn't raymac coming off of an injury where he lost some strength in one of his biceps? Arthur Jones like you said played damn well last year for a 3-4 defensive end. Maybe the contract was on the cheap side, but unless you can tell me definitively who he will sign with and why than you can't tell me it WON'T happen.

Ok so talib has had some issues but he is still more talented than brown. How about B flowers who made 5.25 this year? Or cromartie at 4.3? Out of all the corners in the NFL only 13 make more than 5 mil a year. Do you think brown deserves to be one of those corners? I doubt a team is going to offer him much more than the 49ers and he will probably take a little less and stay with us.

How would Oakland be getting an Impact player a year late, when the likelihood is they would be getting a late first round pick from us ? And impact players are harder to come by at the end of the first round than they are in the top 5. They are not going to assume or try to playing guessing games as to where the pick might fall. Your opinion may be that Manziel or Bridgewater help them the most, but they may disagree. Perhaps Bortles is their guy, or perhaps they like a QB a little later on (Mettenberger, McCarron, Carr etc)...perhaps they have eyes for a different prospect at 5.

Sanders may not have to take less to have a chance at a ring. Maybe teams like Indy, Philly, Green Bay or Carolina will offer him more money, and all those teams will be in the discussion as contenders. Players get their cake and end up with contenders all the time, Sanders does not have to take less money to play for a contender. I never said he was better than the guys I mentioned, simply pointing out statistics are not the end all be all to a players value. Sanders won't be the most coveted free agent WR but there are a lot of teams who could and should have interest.

Arthur Jones will likely be more coveted on the open market than Dorsey was. He was playing at a higher level last year than Dorsey did in his final year with the Chiefs. And by all accounts, it did not seem like Dorsey wasn't getting a whole lot of interest on the market last year. Jones is deemed by most to be one of the more desirable lineman on the free agent market this year. If he wants to play for a deal like you fantasized, he could probably get a similar one from the Pats and go play with his brother or stay with the Ravens. I'll let you believe you are right, and I will look forward to bumping this thread when they sign for more money than in your dream scenario.

Cromartie signed a 4 year 32 million dollar deal in 2011. Since then he restructured it, and made 840k in base this year, the 4.3 is next year. BUT he got a s**t ton in bonus money and or converted bonus money upon restructuring. Flowers signed a 6 year 49 million dollar deal in 2011 that saw him get a 10 million dollar signing bonus up front and another 4 million dollar bonus this past offseason. He also stands to make 2 million dollar reporting bonuses each year for the next 3 years. Given that Sean Smith got 3 years 19 million and Grimes got a one year deal at 5.5 mill, Brown will almost certainly sign a contract that exceeds 4 years at 19 million dollars.
[ Edited by KRS-1 on Feb 6, 2014 at 11:36 AM ]