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The reason wanting to draft a "Big Frame" WR is just overrated

Originally posted by Diaperfan:
1: hands
2: route running/separation
3: YAC ability

If you have these three and are 5'5, I d still draft you. I really hope we don t draft Bryant or Benjamin because they rely on physical superiority to be successful. Their routes and hands look sloppy. I dont see these guys beating top notch NFL corners like Sherman and Peterson. Watching Robert Herron in the senior bowl practices was inspiring. His routes and double moves made the DBs look silly.
We need 1-2 more talented WR's. Talent is talent but having 2 great possession receivers already in Crabtree and Boldin it would make more sense to go after big play threats. Megatron would be nice but I don't see any transformers in this draft let alone would fall far enough for us to take. Good speed like a Jerry Rice or Great speed like a Cliff Branch we need some deep threats. Especially when you have a QB with a gun.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Tell that Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald and Josh Gordon.

Tell that to Steve Smith, Victor Cruz and Reggie Wayne.
Tell that to A.J Jenkins or Kyle Williams.

Calvin Johnson: 6-5, 236
Larry Fitzgerald: 6-3, 218
Andre Johnson: 6-3, 230
Demaryius Thomas: 6-3, 229
Julio Jones: 6-3, 220
Brandon Marshall: 6-4, 230
Dez Bryant: 6-2, 222
Anquan Boldin: 6-1, 220

And to a lessor extent:
Crabs: 6-1, 214
AJ Green: 6-4, 207
Roddy White: 6-0, 212
Alshon Jeffery (emerging):6-3, 216 (still pissed we didn't draft him).

How is this even an argument? Most of the top WR's in the league are tall big bodied receivers - 6-2+ & 220+ - non-slot guys who can get off the LOS and don't always need to be "schemed open" (with motions and bunch formations) while still having adequate enough speed to get open down field. The Steve Smiths (who plays bigger than his size) and Victor Cruz of the league are the exception, not the rule.

I know we haven't had much luck drafting WR's as of late but I'm sorry, we do need to get a big bodied WR on our roster. Lord knows we've been getting, by and large, hasn't worked.
  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 9,629
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
To be fair there are quite a few 6-3 + wide receivers that are well on there way to becoming hall of famers. The modern passing era of the nfl has seen its fair share of 6-3 + WR's.

I am being fair. I have never claimed that big receivers are bad or that small receivers are good.

All I have done in this thread is challenge the idea put forward that bigger is better when it comes to wide receivers.

If this claim were true, Baldwin and Osgood would be the best receivers on the 49ers. They are the biggest wide receivers on the squad and they clearly are not the best.

The claim is just not logical.
[ Edited by buck on Feb 1, 2014 at 6:16 AM ]
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Tell that to A.J Jenkins or Kyle Williams.

Calvin Johnson: 6-5, 236
Larry Fitzgerald: 6-3, 218
Andre Johnson: 6-3, 230
Demaryius Thomas: 6-3, 229
Julio Jones: 6-3, 220
Brandon Marshall: 6-4, 230
Dez Bryant: 6-2, 222
Anquan Boldin: 6-1, 220

And to a lessor extent:
Crabs: 6-1, 214
AJ Green: 6-4, 207
Roddy White: 6-0, 212
Alshon Jeffery (emerging):6-3, 216 (still pissed we didn't draft him).

How is this even an argument? Most of the top WR's in the league are tall big bodied receivers - 6-2+ & 220+ - non-slot guys who can get off the LOS and don't always need to be "schemed open" (with motions and bunch formations) while still having adequate enough speed to get open down field. The Steve Smiths (who plays bigger than his size) and Victor Cruz of the league are the exception, not the rule.

I know we haven't had much luck drafting WR's as of late but I'm sorry, we do need to get a big bodied WR on our roster. Lord knows we've been getting, by and large, hasn't worked.
a perfect example for a spurious regression. Simply perfect.
Originally posted by communist:
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Tell that to A.J Jenkins or Kyle Williams.

Calvin Johnson: 6-5, 236
Larry Fitzgerald: 6-3, 218
Andre Johnson: 6-3, 230
Demaryius Thomas: 6-3, 229
Julio Jones: 6-3, 220
Brandon Marshall: 6-4, 230
Dez Bryant: 6-2, 222
Anquan Boldin: 6-1, 220

And to a lessor extent:
Crabs: 6-1, 214
AJ Green: 6-4, 207
Roddy White: 6-0, 212
Alshon Jeffery (emerging):6-3, 216 (still pissed we didn't draft him).

How is this even an argument? Most of the top WR's in the league are tall big bodied receivers - 6-2+ & 220+ - non-slot guys who can get off the LOS and don't always need to be "schemed open" (with motions and bunch formations) while still having adequate enough speed to get open down field. The Steve Smiths (who plays bigger than his size) and Victor Cruz of the league are the exception, not the rule.

I know we haven't had much luck drafting WR's as of late but I'm sorry, we do need to get a big bodied WR on our roster. Lord knows we've been getting, by and large, hasn't worked.
a perfect example for a spurious regression. Simply perfect.
How so? Because I don't agree that filling our roster with "talented" slot WR's who cannot get off the LOS, who consistently cannot get themselves open against NFL corners without being schemed open?

A perfect example of an insipidly porous argument. Simply perfect.
[ Edited by 9ersLiferInChicago on Feb 1, 2014 at 7:19 AM ]
it's all about talent. size can be advantegous in certain situations like jump balls.
Look at Pierre Garcon or DeSean Jackson. They are not very big but they still produce. As well as TY Hilton, Torrey Smith, Kendall Wright or Reggie Wayne.
And the very best example of this year is Antonio Brown, He catches a lot of passes.

Another examples are Julian Edelman and Wes Welker.

Sammy Watkins is 6-1, could shrink to 6-0 at the combine. would you ignore him and even state that he is just avg becase of his avg height?
[ Edited by communist on Feb 1, 2014 at 7:07 AM ]
  • buck
  • Veteran
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Top 10 wide receivers in the 2014 draft class

1. Kelvin Benjamin Florida St 6-5 234
2. Mike Evans Texas A&M 6-5 218
3. Brandon Coleman Rutgers 6-5 220
4. Martavis Bryant Clemson 6-5 190
5. Anthony Denham Utah 6-4 222
6. Marcus Lucas Missouri 6-4 220
7. Quintin Payton North Carolina St 6-4 211
8. Deon Miller Temple 6-4 210
9. Corey Washington Newberry 6-4 207
10. Chris Boyd Vanderbilt 6-4 205
Originally posted by buck:
Top 10 wide receivers in the 2014 draft class

1. Kelvin Benjamin Florida St 6-5 234
2. Mike Evans Texas A&M 6-5 218
3. Brandon Coleman Rutgers 6-5 220
4. Martavis Bryant Clemson 6-5 190
5. Anthony Denham Utah 6-4 222
6. Marcus Lucas Missouri 6-4 220
7. Quintin Payton North Carolina St 6-4 211
8. Deon Miller Temple 6-4 210
9. Corey Washington Newberry 6-4 207
10. Chris Boyd Vanderbilt 6-4 205

  • KRS-1
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Originally posted by NinerGod:
If you could have a stud 6'4 WR or a stud 6'0 WR which would you take?

I would need to see the rest of their measureables and some game tape on both. I also need to learn about the players character and mental makeup. For all I know I am picking between a selfless player like Hines Ward and a selfish head case like Randy Moss. I need the player who is best going to fit who we are and what we do.

Originally posted by JimHarbaugh:
Ok then find a small framed guy who can position himself for catches better than a big strong guy.. They both have their benefits.

Steve Smith.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
"Dear Stephen Hill,


I was incredibly excited about your potential when the Jets moved up and drafted you with 43rd overall selection in the 2012 draft. I remember gawking at your college highlights from Georgia Tech, the same school Lions receiver Calvin Johnson went to, thinking one day you might be just as productive. You had great size standing at 6 foot 4 and blazing fast speed which you showed in the 40 yard dash at the combine when you ran in the 4.3′s. Analysts said you were raw, and would need to improve in a lot of areas to be an effective receiver at the next level, but the Jets, like many, were too smitten with your measurable statistics.


I personally was excited to potentially see you grow into the next Megatron, I even had your Decepticon name picked out. You were to be Starscream (after all Starscream transforms into a Jet), Megatrons second in command constantly pining for the throne. In your first game ever you blew up with 5 receptions for 89 yards and two touchdowns.

You showed your deep threat ability on the first TD, and your incredible speed in the second on a crossing route where you made the second effort to stay in bounds while diving into the end-zone. Fast forward to now and I am sad to say you have not earned your Decepticon nickname, as a matter of fact you haven't even earned a starting spot in the Jets roster that is known to all as having a lack of wide receiver talent.

You struggled with ball security, getting off press coverage, and worst of all you struggle catching the ball. You rarely used the size you possess to gain position and advantage on passes thrown your way, and we haven't seen your speed translate consistently on the NFL field."





Yes, Stephen Hill....."this guy could be Calvin Johnson or at least Demaryius Thomas"....except both of those guys were far more skilled as receivers.

6'4", 215, 4.36 40, basically SanDiego's wet dream and just not a very good receiver in spite of the Jets doing everything possible to force the ball to him. Injury prone too.

Well I would say Demaryius Thomas would be Starscream to Calvin's Megatron since Thomas also went to Georgia Tech. Also call me biased because Georgia Tech is my college team but still think it's a bit early to write Stephen Hill off. He's been in the league all of two years and during that time frame he's spent more time hurt than healthy, had potentially the worst starting quarterback in the NFL throwing him the ball in Sanchez and a very inconsistent rookie in Geno this year. I don't think he will ever reach the level of Calvin or Demaryius but they are also top five receivers in the league as well. I still think he could be a playmaker with more consistent play from the quarterback position and better coaching. We'll see how it plays out.

I do agree with the subject at hand as well. I think too much stock is put in a receiver's size and speed but at the end of the day it's what can't be measured by scouts, gm's and coaches that will be the determining attribute as to whether a player is successful and that's the size of their heart. I've watched guys like Marvin Harrison, Isaac Bruce, Tory Holt, Wes Welker, Steve Smith take over games because they just know how to play the game. I believe a player will be great because their great. Not because their the biggest, or the fastest, just because they are great. Jerry Rice taught us a lot about that. He wasn't the fastest or the tallest or the strongest, but he worked harder than 21 other players every play he was in on.
  • SaksV
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The Greatest Football Player Of All Time was 6'2" 195 lbs. Not exact "tall" nor "big bodied"...and this was during an era where you could actually put hands on a receiver.
[ Edited by SaksV on Feb 1, 2014 at 9:59 AM ]
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Tell that Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald and Josh Gordon.

Tell that to Steve Smith, Victor Cruz and Reggie Wayne.
Tell that to A.J Jenkins or Kyle Williams.

Calvin Johnson: 6-5, 236
Larry Fitzgerald: 6-3, 218
Andre Johnson: 6-3, 230
Demaryius Thomas: 6-3, 229
Julio Jones: 6-3, 220
Brandon Marshall: 6-4, 230
Dez Bryant: 6-2, 222
Anquan Boldin: 6-1, 220

And to a lessor extent:
Crabs: 6-1, 214
AJ Green: 6-4, 207
Roddy White: 6-0, 212
Alshon Jeffery (emerging):6-3, 216 (still pissed we didn't draft him).

How is this even an argument? Most of the top WR's in the league are tall big bodied receivers - 6-2+ & 220+ - non-slot guys who can get off the LOS and don't always need to be "schemed open" (with motions and bunch formations) while still having adequate enough speed to get open down field. The Steve Smiths (who plays bigger than his size) and Victor Cruz of the league are the exception, not the rule.

I know we haven't had much luck drafting WR's as of late but I'm sorry, we do need to get a big bodied WR on our roster. Lord knows we've been getting, by and large, hasn't worked.

This times 100.....^^^^^.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by buck:
Top 10 wide receivers in the 2014 draft class

1. Kelvin Benjamin Florida St 6-5 234
2. Mike Evans Texas A&M 6-5 218
3. Brandon Coleman Rutgers 6-5 220
4. Martavis Bryant Clemson 6-5 190
5. Anthony Denham Utah 6-4 222
6. Marcus Lucas Missouri 6-4 220
7. Quintin Payton North Carolina St 6-4 211
8. Deon Miller Temple 6-4 210
9. Corey Washington Newberry 6-4 207
10. Chris Boyd Vanderbilt 6-4 205


You mean we could have "Quintin Patton" on one side and "Quintin Payton" on the other side?.....
Originally posted by SaksV:
The Greatest Football Player Of All Time was 6'2" 195 lbs. Not exact "tall" nor "big bodied"...and this was during an era where you could actually put hands on a receiver.

6'2" 200 lbs. (his playing weight) absolutely is "tall" and big bodied. It's bigger than average. The average American male is 5'9" - 5'10"ish. A lot of DB's in that era and today are around 5'10" 180 lbs. Leaving him significantly bigger than his average opponent. He played before the Richard Sherman Seattle DB type was in vogue. Now people look for 6'3" - 6'4" safetys and corners. That wasn't always the case.