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MadDog's 2014 NFL Draft Pre-Combine Big 100 Board

Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Always interesting to see your BBs, MD.

Some intriguing values for me...

too high:
16 Cyrus Kouandjio Alabama OT
23 Scott Crichton Oregon St DE/OLB
28 Morgan Moses Virginia OT
81 Josh Huff Oregon WR
82 Marcus Martin USC C

too low:
57 Odell Beckham LSU WR
71 Marcus Smith Louisville LB
75 Lamarcus Joyner Florida State CB
100 Zach Mettenberger LSU QB

other notes: Love that you have Jimmie Ward high, and puzzled that Ego Furgeson doesn't make your 100.

Tend to think that OL and pass rushers get overvalued during draft weekend, and Moses had a really nice Senior Bowl week. Martin may end the number one graded center in this class. Nobody stepped up to dominate during Senior Bowl week (although Larsen and Richburg had good weeks). Mettenberger may end up going higher, but I believe that early rush to get him in the 4th round makes sense. Marcus Smith- great college player, but did not distinguish himself at Senior Bowl. Joyner simply short. Limited on what you can do with him.
Originally posted by Ninefan56:
Thank you for the big 100. I think I ask you about this every year but maybe this year we will get it from you. Any plans on your evaluation board and any plans for your personal draft board after the combine? Any plans about your evaluation of what you think that the Niners will go for? Thanks for all of your input I think they are great.

Thanks. I always post my Best Available board, and this year will be no different. Proud to see my board in 2011 has produced Pro-Bowls from all of my top five: 1. AJ Green 2.Patrick Peterson 3. Von Miller 4. Marcel Dareus 5. JJ Watt.

Sorry for sidenote: JJ Watt was unstoppable last night. He completely humiliated Tyron Smith and abuse Jordan Gross and Joe Thomas. That was flat out. Two sacks, including a forced fumble, one or two deflections (I am forgetting), and caused two other sacks. Most dominant player in the game.

Will project what the Niners are interested in drafting. Would be surprised if they went offense. Just too many holes on defense, especially in the secondary. I think Reid is flexible to move to SS if needed. Maybe a DL as well. Age creeping up on Cowboy and McDonald (who has surprising held up physically in the NFL).
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by lamontb:
Seems like folks are going overboard on the scouting of these tall corners. But It's not like Seattle just got successful. They were last year as well. It's just hard to find tall good corners. I actually think Baptiste and McGill are 3rd/4th rounders. But folks seem to be really hype on these guys being drafted fairley early for thier skillset. These dudes are super raw. I like Baptisite a little bit more than McGill but i don't see much seperation between the two. I need to look more into Desir.

Just curious, what makes you think guys like Baptiste, Desir, Dontae Johnson or Walt Aikens are more "raw" than other non-first round corners? SJB has played CB for 3 years now, Desir has played corner for his entire college career and Aikens has played CB for 3 years. Even Dontae Johnson has 2+ years of playing corner at NC State which is the same as Lamarcus Joyner. Not sure anyone would consider Joyner "raw."

The only guy who legitimately can be called raw is McGill with only one season of big-time college football as a corner and injuries have been a bigger factor in him not getting enough action. I'd be more concerned about that with McGill than anything else.

For me, it is technique, not playing experience.
Originally posted by ninergold:
1) I hope they are able to trade a few picks to continue to get more picks next year.
2) Is there someone they love that they move to get, like they did with Reid and Davis?
3) Or do they trade down and start working the magic on 2nd and 3rd round guys?

(Could they walk away with Bucannon, Gabe Jackson, Kyle Fuller, Davante and a Travis Swanson?)

Sure. They have a lot of picks
  • DVDA
  • Veteran
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Where do you see Brett Smith getting drafted? I think he made a mistake declaring early, but the farther he falls the more likely he is going to be a third stringer for the 49ers which would be an ideal fit for him.
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by lamontb:
Seems like folks are going overboard on the scouting of these tall corners. But It's not like Seattle just got successful. They were last year as well. It's just hard to find tall good corners. I actually think Baptiste and McGill are 3rd/4th rounders. But folks seem to be really hype on these guys being drafted fairley early for thier skillset. These dudes are super raw. I like Baptisite a little bit more than McGill but i don't see much seperation between the two. I need to look more into Desir.

Just curious, what makes you think guys like Baptiste, Desir, Dontae Johnson or Walt Aikens are more "raw" than other non-first round corners? SJB and Aikens have played CB for 3 years now, Desir has played corner for his entire career and Dontae Johnson has 2+ years of experience at the position, which is the same as Lamarcus Joyner. Not sure anyone would consider Joyner "raw."

The only guy who legitimately can be called raw is McGill with only one season of big-time college football as a corner and injuries have been the bigger issue with him not getting enough action.
Just not playing that much at the position, and really having to learn technique of the positon. Maybe it's thier height that makes me think they are extra raw when watching them. At times they just don't look that smooth playing the positon. That comment was about McGill and Baptiste than Desir.
Originally posted by DVDA:
Where do you see Brett Smith getting drafted? I think he made a mistake declaring early, but the farther he falls the more likely he is going to be a third stringer for the 49ers which would be an ideal fit for him.

Fourth rounder. Could move up dramatically, but I think he and Mettenberger get a long look at the top of the 4th round.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by lamontb:
Seems like folks are going overboard on the scouting of these tall corners. But It's not like Seattle just got successful. They were last year as well. It's just hard to find tall good corners. I actually think Baptiste and McGill are 3rd/4th rounders. But folks seem to be really hype on these guys being drafted fairley early for thier skillset. These dudes are super raw. I like Baptisite a little bit more than McGill but i don't see much seperation between the two. I need to look more into Desir.

Just curious, what makes you think guys like Baptiste, Desir, Dontae Johnson or Walt Aikens are more "raw" than other non-first round corners? SJB has played CB for 3 years now, Desir has played corner for his entire college career and Aikens has played CB for 3 years. Even Dontae Johnson has 2+ years of playing corner at NC State which is the same as Lamarcus Joyner. Not sure anyone would consider Joyner "raw."

The only guy who legitimately can be called raw is McGill with only one season of big-time college football as a corner and injuries have been a bigger factor in him not getting enough action. I'd be more concerned about that with McGill than anything else.

For me, it is technique, not playing experience.

Again, I think technique is an issue with most high-upside 2nd+ round corners, which is often why they're not 1st rounders. Proper technique can be taught, size/speed can't and to a certain extent, neither can great ball skills. It's a preference thing for me, but I'd rather have a less polished athlete with enough of the requisite size/skills/athleticism to be coached up, so long as they also have the drive/motivation to learn and be great. Without the latter part, you're stuck with a bunch of Raiders draft picks which is NOT something I advocate.

All that said, if the size-thing isn't part of your scheme, than of course you don't want to draft these kinds of guys. Seattle has an entire philosophy that incorporates manic pressure from the d-line, cover LBs to run sideline-to-sideline, big corners to disrupt/frustrate timing and a FS that cleans everything else up. So unless you have an entire system that can take advantage of big/press corners, it's not wise to draft them. Truly, if Seattle didn't bring as much pressure as they do, those corners would NOT be nearly as effective covering downfield.
[ Edited by GhostofFredDean74 on Jan 27, 2014 at 1:09 PM ]
I like your analogy of your top 100 but I truly believe a lot of movement after the combine will be made imo good job
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by Ninefan56:
Thank you for the big 100. I think I ask you about this every year but maybe this year we will get it from you. Any plans on your evaluation board and any plans for your personal draft board after the combine? Any plans about your evaluation of what you think that the Niners will go for? Thanks for all of your input I think they are great.

Thanks. I always post my Best Available board, and this year will be no different. Proud to see my board in 2011 has produced Pro-Bowls from all of my top five: 1. AJ Green 2.Patrick Peterson 3. Von Miller 4. Marcel Dareus 5. JJ Watt.

Sorry for sidenote: JJ Watt was unstoppable last night. He completely humiliated Tyron Smith and abuse Jordan Gross and Joe Thomas. That was flat out. Two sacks, including a forced fumble, one or two deflections (I am forgetting), and caused two other sacks. Most dominant player in the game.

Will project what the Niners are interested in drafting. Would be surprised if they went offense. Just too many holes on defense, especially in the secondary. I think Reid is flexible to move to SS if needed. Maybe a DL as well. Age creeping up on Cowboy and McDonald (who has surprising held up physically in the NFL).

Thanks Maddog, I appreciate all of the info you share with us. I personally think that the Niner have holes all through their team. I don't think that the Oline is as healthy as we need. C, Guard, and a developing tacklle are important. WR is self evident. And I think that having a power back to support Lattimore will be essential. We have a lot of Dline but if a quality dlineman was available to the team they might take him. Never too much OLB and Willis is getting up in age and Bowman's injury make ILB an important issue to settle. Then we have Whitner, Rogers, and Brown likely to leave so we have a lot of backfield issues. So lots of things need to be done. So I would like your personal assessment of who and why we need specific people and I would like your assessment of who the Niners are most likely to take and why. Thanks again.
Thanks MadDog! Been waiting to see what you thought!
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by Ninefan56:
Thank you for the big 100. I think I ask you about this every year but maybe this year we will get it from you. Any plans on your evaluation board and any plans for your personal draft board after the combine? Any plans about your evaluation of what you think that the Niners will go for? Thanks for all of your input I think they are great.

Thanks. I always post my Best Available board, and this year will be no different. Proud to see my board in 2011 has produced Pro-Bowls from all of my top five: 1. AJ Green 2.Patrick Peterson 3. Von Miller 4. Marcel Dareus 5. JJ Watt.

Sorry for sidenote: JJ Watt was unstoppable last night. He completely humiliated Tyron Smith and abuse Jordan Gross and Joe Thomas. That was flat out. Two sacks, including a forced fumble, one or two deflections (I am forgetting), and caused two other sacks. Most dominant player in the game.

Will project what the Niners are interested in drafting. Would be surprised if they went offense. Just too many holes on defense, especially in the secondary. I think Reid is flexible to move to SS if needed. Maybe a DL as well. Age creeping up on Cowboy and McDonald (who has surprising held up physically in the NFL).

Other than Blaine Gabbert and Jake Locker every player in the top 11 picks has made the Pro Bowl from that draft. Pretty much everyone had those guys at the top.
Why so low on Davante Adams?
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by lamontb:
Seems like folks are going overboard on the scouting of these tall corners. But It's not like Seattle just got successful. They were last year as well. It's just hard to find tall good corners. I actually think Baptiste and McGill are 3rd/4th rounders. But folks seem to be really hype on these guys being drafted fairley early for thier skillset. These dudes are super raw. I like Baptisite a little bit more than McGill but i don't see much seperation between the two. I need to look more into Desir.

Just curious, what makes you think guys like Baptiste, Desir, Dontae Johnson or Walt Aikens are more "raw" than other non-first round corners? SJB has played CB for 3 years now, Desir has played corner for his entire college career and Aikens has played CB for 3 years. Even Dontae Johnson has 2+ years of playing corner at NC State which is the same as Lamarcus Joyner. Not sure anyone would consider Joyner "raw."

The only guy who legitimately can be called raw is McGill with only one season of big-time college football as a corner and injuries have been a bigger factor in him not getting enough action. I'd be more concerned about that with McGill than anything else.

For me, it is technique, not playing experience.


Again, I think technique is an issue with most high-upside 2nd+ round corners, which is often why they're not 1st rounders. Proper technique can be taught, size/speed can't and to a certain extent, neither can great ball skills. It's a preference thing for me, but I'd rather have a less polished athlete with enough of the requisite size/skills/athleticism to be coached up, so long as they also have the drive/motivation to learn and be great. Without the latter part, you're stuck with a bunch of Raiders draft picks which is NOT something I advocate.

All that said, if the size-thing isn't part of your scheme, than of course you don't want to draft these kinds of guys. Seattle has an entire philosophy that incorporates manic pressure from the d-line, cover LBs to run sideline-to-sideline, big corners to disrupt/frustrate timing and a FS that cleans everything else up. So unless you have an entire system that can take advantage of big/press corners, it's not wise to draft them. Truly, if Seattle didn't bring as much pressure as they do, those corners would NOT be nearly as effective covering downfield.

Everyone is going to try to copy Seattle's system in one way or another. The pressure up front is the starting point. That us why I expect guys like Dee Ford and Aaron Donald to be selected early, even though they don't have the prototypical height and weight. Can't wait to see Ford's 10 yard split at the combine. That burst reminds me a lot of Bruce Irvin.
Originally posted by Harbaalke:
I like your analogy of your top 100 but I truly believe a lot of movement after the combine will be made imo good job

I attach a lot of value on CBs in the combine drills. Many players get exposed for being tight, while others are so smooth on the field. Big advocate of watching footwork in drills.