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Stanley Jean-Baptiste CB Nebraska

Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
Eh I don't agree. You don't know that the league will ever crack down on it. Seattle has been doing it since 2011 and the league has yet to crack down on it. It gives the team a HUGE advantage. It helps Seattle's defense so much, the way their secondary illegally plays. We must even the playing field and employ that type of secondary play ourselves.

I think you'll see enough complaints from various teams that the NFL will make it a bigger issue, particularly if it presents itself in the Superbowl. The NFL is all about offense right now and if they have to start flagging Seattle on nearly every play to get the message across, I think you'd see that secondary be far less effective overall.
It's important to note that it's not just his 6'3" height that separates Sherman from other CBs, it's his speed (4.54), length (78" wingspan) and hops (40" vertical). He really is an incredible athlete, and if you combine that with his tremendous ball skills, tenacious attitude and physical style of play, you have the complete package and essentially the best corner in football (my personal feelings about him aside).

Teams JUST looking for size hoping that they'll get the next Sherman can't get lazy in their evaluations because clearly there's more to RS than that. That said, SJB does have a lot of the physical qualities Sherman has and at worst, could develop into a stellar safety if the corner thing doesn't work out. If a team determines he has the same kind of fire and arrogance that Sherman has (and which you need to play on an island in the NFL), he could easily go late 1st/early 2nd.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
Eh I don't agree. You don't know that the league will ever crack down on it. Seattle has been doing it since 2011 and the league has yet to crack down on it. It gives the team a HUGE advantage. It helps Seattle's defense so much, the way their secondary illegally plays. We must even the playing field and employ that type of secondary play ourselves.

I think you'll see enough complaints from various teams that the NFL will make it a bigger issue, particularly if it presents itself in the Superbowl. The NFL is all about offense right now and if they have to start flagging Seattle on nearly every play to get the message across, I think you'd see that secondary be far less effective overall.

I definitely agree with you about the NFL being all about offense. The rules have changed so much since the 80s to favor the offense. Like I said though, Seattle has been playing this type of defense since 2011 and have been getting away with it for whatever reason. If the league did actually crack down on them, Richard Sherman would instantly no longer be the best corner in the league. He very well could go from being the best to being a very mediocre corner at best. Interesting note, I heard Sherman was the most penalized corner while in college for pass interference and was also benched for it.
Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
Eh I don't agree. You don't know that the league will ever crack down on it. Seattle has been doing it since 2011 and the league has yet to crack down on it. It gives the team a HUGE advantage. It helps Seattle's defense so much, the way their secondary illegally plays. We must even the playing field and employ that type of secondary play ourselves.

I think you'll see enough complaints from various teams that the NFL will make it a bigger issue, particularly if it presents itself in the Superbowl. The NFL is all about offense right now and if they have to start flagging Seattle on nearly every play to get the message across, I think you'd see that secondary be far less effective overall.

I definitely agree with you about the NFL being all about offense. The rules have changed so much since the 80s to favor the offense. Like I said though, Seattle has been playing this type of defense since 2011 and have been getting away with it for whatever reason. If the league did actually crack down on them, Richard Sherman would instantly no longer be the best corner in the league. He very well could go from being the best to being a very mediocre corner at best. Interesting note, I heard Sherman was the most penalized corner while in college for pass interference and was also benched for it.

But in the pros he gets away with it on every play. So I guess it's working.
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
It's important to note that it's not just his 6'3" height that separates Sherman from other CBs, it's his speed (4.54), length (78" wingspan) and hops (40" vertical). He really is an incredible athlete, and if you combine that with his tremendous ball skills, tenacious attitude and physical style of play, you have the complete package and essentially the best corner in football (my personal feelings about him aside).

Teams JUST looking for size hoping that they'll get the next Sherman can't get lazy in their evaluations because clearly there's more to RS than that. That said, SJB does have a lot of the physical qualities Sherman has and at worst, could develop into a stellar safety if the corner thing doesn't work out. If a team determines he has the same kind of fire and arrogance that Sherman has (and which you need to play on an island in the NFL), he could easily go late 1st/early 2nd.

Sherman really is not an incredible athlete. He's a decent athlete. 4.54 speed is toward the slower side for corners. Also, his vertical is not 40 inches. It ranges from 35-38 inches. That's still a solid vertical, but nothing incredible. He's also not very agile, stiff in his hips, and plays high up. He compensates for this with that great wingspan and by tugging jerseys whenever the receiver makes his cut. Sherman would get abused by fast and quick guys if he weren't allowed to use his hands so much. You aren't going to get much if any separation as a receiver if you're jersey is being ridden throughout your route.
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
Eh I don't agree. You don't know that the league will ever crack down on it. Seattle has been doing it since 2011 and the league has yet to crack down on it. It gives the team a HUGE advantage. It helps Seattle's defense so much, the way their secondary illegally plays. We must even the playing field and employ that type of secondary play ourselves.

I think you'll see enough complaints from various teams that the NFL will make it a bigger issue, particularly if it presents itself in the Superbowl. The NFL is all about offense right now and if they have to start flagging Seattle on nearly every play to get the message across, I think you'd see that secondary be far less effective overall.

I definitely agree with you about the NFL being all about offense. The rules have changed so much since the 80s to favor the offense. Like I said though, Seattle has been playing this type of defense since 2011 and have been getting away with it for whatever reason. If the league did actually crack down on them, Richard Sherman would instantly no longer be the best corner in the league. He very well could go from being the best to being a very mediocre corner at best. Interesting note, I heard Sherman was the most penalized corner while in college for pass interference and was also benched for it.

But in the pros he gets away with it on every play. So I guess it's working.

Yup it sure is unfortunately for us. What really frustrates me though is our corners get flagged for the most minor s**t. I guess you have to interfere with the receivers every play and then they wont call it, as opposed to occasional contact. Either that, or the league just has a stiff one for the Seahawks and only lets them play that way.
Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
It's important to note that it's not just his 6'3" height that separates Sherman from other CBs, it's his speed (4.54), length (78" wingspan) and hops (40" vertical). He really is an incredible athlete, and if you combine that with his tremendous ball skills, tenacious attitude and physical style of play, you have the complete package and essentially the best corner in football (my personal feelings about him aside).

Teams JUST looking for size hoping that they'll get the next Sherman can't get lazy in their evaluations because clearly there's more to RS than that. That said, SJB does have a lot of the physical qualities Sherman has and at worst, could develop into a stellar safety if the corner thing doesn't work out. If a team determines he has the same kind of fire and arrogance that Sherman has (and which you need to play on an island in the NFL), he could easily go late 1st/early 2nd.

Sherman really is not an incredible athlete. He's a decent athlete. 4.54 speed is toward the slower side for corners. Also, his vertical is not 40 inches. It ranges from 35-38 inches. That's still a solid vertical, but nothing incredible. He's also not very agile, stiff in his hips, and plays high up. He compensates for this with that great wingspan and by tugging jerseys whenever the receiver makes his cut. Sherman would get abused by fast and quick guys if he weren't allowed to use his hands so much. You aren't going to get much if any separation as a receiver if you're jersey is being ridden throughout your route.

The only reason I see SJB a better prospect than Sherman is his ability to cover anywhere LCB/RCB or slot unlike Sherman. I remember the whole nnamdi asomugha vs Revis debate but the reason why Revis was/is so good is that he covers their best WR anywhere he goes which SJB did in college. Its scary because this KID has produced in his limited time as a CB his ceiling is high imo can you say my draft crush
[ Edited by Harbaalke on Jan 24, 2014 at 3:44 PM ]
Originally posted by Harbaalke:
Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
It's important to note that it's not just his 6'3" height that separates Sherman from other CBs, it's his speed (4.54), length (78" wingspan) and hops (40" vertical). He really is an incredible athlete, and if you combine that with his tremendous ball skills, tenacious attitude and physical style of play, you have the complete package and essentially the best corner in football (my personal feelings about him aside).

Teams JUST looking for size hoping that they'll get the next Sherman can't get lazy in their evaluations because clearly there's more to RS than that. That said, SJB does have a lot of the physical qualities Sherman has and at worst, could develop into a stellar safety if the corner thing doesn't work out. If a team determines he has the same kind of fire and arrogance that Sherman has (and which you need to play on an island in the NFL), he could easily go late 1st/early 2nd.

Sherman really is not an incredible athlete. He's a decent athlete. 4.54 speed is toward the slower side for corners. Also, his vertical is not 40 inches. It ranges from 35-38 inches. That's still a solid vertical, but nothing incredible. He's also not very agile, stiff in his hips, and plays high up. He compensates for this with that great wingspan and by tugging jerseys whenever the receiver makes his cut. Sherman would get abused by fast and quick guys if he weren't allowed to use his hands so much. You aren't going to get much if any separation as a receiver if you're jersey is being ridden throughout your route.

The only reason I see SJB a better prospect than Sherman is his ability to cover anywhere LCB/RCB or slot unlike Sherman. I remember the whole nnamdi asomugha vs Revis debate but the reason why Revis was/is so good is that he covers their best WR anywhere he goes which SJB did in college. Its scary because this KID has produced in his limited time as a CB his ceiling is high imo can you say my draft crush

He must be pretty fluid in the hips and have good change of direction if he can cover the slot guys as well. What's his speed like?
Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
It's important to note that it's not just his 6'3" height that separates Sherman from other CBs, it's his speed (4.54), length (78" wingspan) and hops (40" vertical). He really is an incredible athlete, and if you combine that with his tremendous ball skills, tenacious attitude and physical style of play, you have the complete package and essentially the best corner in football (my personal feelings about him aside).

Teams JUST looking for size hoping that they'll get the next Sherman can't get lazy in their evaluations because clearly there's more to RS than that. That said, SJB does have a lot of the physical qualities Sherman has and at worst, could develop into a stellar safety if the corner thing doesn't work out. If a team determines he has the same kind of fire and arrogance that Sherman has (and which you need to play on an island in the NFL), he could easily go late 1st/early 2nd.

Sherman really is not an incredible athlete. He's a decent athlete. 4.54 speed is toward the slower side for corners. Also, his vertical is not 40 inches. It ranges from 35-38 inches. That's still a solid vertical, but nothing incredible. He's also not very agile, stiff in his hips, and plays high up. He compensates for this with that great wingspan and by tugging jerseys whenever the receiver makes his cut. Sherman would get abused by fast and quick guys if he weren't allowed to use his hands so much. You aren't going to get much if any separation as a receiver if you're jersey is being ridden throughout your route.

I think we're both a little off here. "Incredible athlete" was a little strong on my end, but he's more than just a decent athlete as you say, especially when you consider his size/length. His 38" vertical at the 2011 combine was tied with Patrick Peterson for 5th...no slouch of an athlete there.

I also think you're exaggerating about him getting abused by faster/quicker WRs. He's also a very smart corner who uses angles well and reads things as good as any corner I've seen. YES, he uses his hands, but we have to get real here, ALL corners do this which is part of the reason it's "allowed" in the NFL. Seattle is particularly egregious there's no doubt about it. But to attribute his success primarily to cheating is pretty lazy (or maybe just being subjective) on your end.

My larger point was, there's more to Sherman than height AND cheating.
[ Edited by GhostofFredDean74 on Jan 24, 2014 at 3:55 PM ]
Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
Originally posted by Harbaalke:
Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
It's important to note that it's not just his 6'3" height that separates Sherman from other CBs, it's his speed (4.54), length (78" wingspan) and hops (40" vertical). He really is an incredible athlete, and if you combine that with his tremendous ball skills, tenacious attitude and physical style of play, you have the complete package and essentially the best corner in football (my personal feelings about him aside).

Teams JUST looking for size hoping that they'll get the next Sherman can't get lazy in their evaluations because clearly there's more to RS than that. That said, SJB does have a lot of the physical qualities Sherman has and at worst, could develop into a stellar safety if the corner thing doesn't work out. If a team determines he has the same kind of fire and arrogance that Sherman has (and which you need to play on an island in the NFL), he could easily go late 1st/early 2nd.

Sherman really is not an incredible athlete. He's a decent athlete. 4.54 speed is toward the slower side for corners. Also, his vertical is not 40 inches. It ranges from 35-38 inches. That's still a solid vertical, but nothing incredible. He's also not very agile, stiff in his hips, and plays high up. He compensates for this with that great wingspan and by tugging jerseys whenever the receiver makes his cut. Sherman would get abused by fast and quick guys if he weren't allowed to use his hands so much. You aren't going to get much if any separation as a receiver if you're jersey is being ridden throughout your route.

The only reason I see SJB a better prospect than Sherman is his ability to cover anywhere LCB/RCB or slot unlike Sherman. I remember the whole nnamdi asomugha vs Revis debate but the reason why Revis was/is so good is that he covers their best WR anywhere he goes which SJB did in college. Its scary because this KID has produced in his limited time as a CB his ceiling is high imo can you say my draft crush

He must be pretty fluid in the hips and have good change of direction if he can cover the slot guys as well. What's his speed like?

Yea draft scout Matt Miller asked the same question and was impressed at the Senior Bowl practice can't wait to watch him tomorrow. Scouts say he runs in the high 4.4 to low 4.5 but the combine will determine that imo.

Matt Miller ‏@nfldraftscout Jan 21
Liked Stanley Jean-Baptiste's film quite a bit. Issue was how athletic/fluid he was. This week he's shown well. Rd 1 pick wouldn't surprise
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
It's important to note that it's not just his 6'3" height that separates Sherman from other CBs, it's his speed (4.54), length (78" wingspan) and hops (40" vertical). He really is an incredible athlete, and if you combine that with his tremendous ball skills, tenacious attitude and physical style of play, you have the complete package and essentially the best corner in football (my personal feelings about him aside).

Teams JUST looking for size hoping that they'll get the next Sherman can't get lazy in their evaluations because clearly there's more to RS than that. That said, SJB does have a lot of the physical qualities Sherman has and at worst, could develop into a stellar safety if the corner thing doesn't work out. If a team determines he has the same kind of fire and arrogance that Sherman has (and which you need to play on an island in the NFL), he could easily go late 1st/early 2nd.

Sherman really is not an incredible athlete. He's a decent athlete. 4.54 speed is toward the slower side for corners. Also, his vertical is not 40 inches. It ranges from 35-38 inches. That's still a solid vertical, but nothing incredible. He's also not very agile, stiff in his hips, and plays high up. He compensates for this with that great wingspan and by tugging jerseys whenever the receiver makes his cut. Sherman would get abused by fast and quick guys if he weren't allowed to use his hands so much. You aren't going to get much if any separation as a receiver if you're jersey is being ridden throughout your route.

I think we're both a little off here. "Incredible athlete" was a little strong on my end, but he's more than just a decent athlete as you say, especially when you consider his size/length. His 38" vertical at the 2011 combine was tied with Patrick Peterson for 5th...no slouch of an athlete there.

I also think you're exaggerating about him getting abused by faster/quicker WRs. He's also a very smart corner who uses angles well and reads things as good as any corner I've seen. YES, he uses his hands, but we have to get real here, ALL corners do this which is part of the reason it's "allowed" in the NFL. Seattle is particularly egregious there's no doubt about it. But to attribute his success primarily to cheating is pretty lazy (or maybe just being subjective) on your end.

My larger point was, there's more to Sherman than height AND cheating.

I will give Sherman credit for having a good work ethic, being very smart, watching a lot of film, and having good ball skills. Like I said though, he plays high up, is not very fluid in the hips, and has poor change of direction. There is a reason he was a 5th round pick and he was very mediocre in college. His arms/hands and the way he grabs and tugs on jerseys is why he is having so much success. TY Hilton abused him because he had a hard time getting his hands on him. He didn't get away with the holding in college, and thus he wasn't all that good. He gets away with it in the pros and now he's elite. That's not a coincidence.
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
It's important to note that it's not just his 6'3" height that separates Sherman from other CBs, it's his speed (4.54), length (78" wingspan) and hops (40" vertical). He really is an incredible athlete, and if you combine that with his tremendous ball skills, tenacious attitude and physical style of play, you have the complete package and essentially the best corner in football (my personal feelings about him aside).

Teams JUST looking for size hoping that they'll get the next Sherman can't get lazy in their evaluations because clearly there's more to RS than that. That said, SJB does have a lot of the physical qualities Sherman has and at worst, could develop into a stellar safety if the corner thing doesn't work out. If a team determines he has the same kind of fire and arrogance that Sherman has (and which you need to play on an island in the NFL), he could easily go late 1st/early 2nd.

Sherman really is not an incredible athlete. He's a decent athlete. 4.54 speed is toward the slower side for corners. Also, his vertical is not 40 inches. It ranges from 35-38 inches. That's still a solid vertical, but nothing incredible. He's also not very agile, stiff in his hips, and plays high up. He compensates for this with that great wingspan and by tugging jerseys whenever the receiver makes his cut. Sherman would get abused by fast and quick guys if he weren't allowed to use his hands so much. You aren't going to get much if any separation as a receiver if you're jersey is being ridden throughout your route.

I think we're both a little off here. "Incredible athlete" was a little strong on my end, but he's more than just a decent athlete as you say, especially when you consider his size/length. His 38" vertical at the 2011 combine was tied with Patrick Peterson for 5th...no slouch of an athlete there.

I also think you're exaggerating about him getting abused by faster/quicker WRs. He's also a very smart corner who uses angles well and reads things as good as any corner I've seen. YES, he uses his hands, but we have to get real here, ALL corners do this which is part of the reason it's "allowed" in the NFL. Seattle is particularly egregious there's no doubt about it. But to attribute his success primarily to cheating is pretty lazy (or maybe just being subjective) on your end.

My larger point was, there's more to Sherman than height AND cheating.

But you gotta admit that's a lot of it though.....
How often does he press because we rarely press
  • buck
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Jean-Baptiste listed as a standout by McShay

Nebraska CB Stanley Jean-Baptiste was listed as one of Todd McShay's most impressive defensive players during Senior Bowl week.

Utah corner Keith McGill, Pittsburgh defensive tackle Aaron Donald, Wisconsin linebacker Chris Borland, and Auburn defensive end Dee Ford were also included in that list.

Jean-Baptiste has everything the NFL looks for in terms of frame and length, but he does not get physical with receivers at this point in his development. An NFL team could change that, however.


Source: Todd McShay on Twitter

http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/cfb/29458/jean-baptiste-listed-as-a-standout-by-mcshay
Originally posted by Since07:
How often does he press because we rarely press

DEFENSIVE BACKS


Best press technique: CB Stanley Jean-Baptiste, Nebraska Jean-Baptiste has above-average size and uses his length well to disrupt receivers' releases. He also has above-average balance and fluidity for a taller corner and, being a former receiver, appears natural locating and playing the football.


Best man-to-man cover skills: CB Jaylen Watkins, Florida Watkins showed quick feet, above-average fluidity and transitioned well out of his breaks, not to mention he also flashed good anticipation and route-recognition skills to get early breaks on throws. Utah State's Nevin Lawson also flashed well here this week.

Most versatile: S Dez Southward, Wisconsin At 6-0⅛ and 206 pounds, Southward is big enough to lineup at safety, at which he shows good recognition skills, range, plus the ability to play the run. He didn't show great fluidity at corner, but he's smart and he has enough foot speed to line up there depending on the matchup.