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Before everyone goes out and starts drafting the legion of Boom...

Originally posted by UKNiner:
he's also good because every time he's getting beat (or about to get beat) he holds - watch the bearhugs, watch the pushing people off their routes downfield, watch him him the player before the ball gets there, watch the "inadvertent contact" happen time and time again. 7th (equal) most penalised player in The NFL this year (and it should have been much, much worse).

He's no Revis, heck he's no Peterson, heck he might only be the third best player in their LOB - he's no Earl Thomas that's for sure.

i understand people are angry with Sherman, but make no mistake about it, he's the best CB since Champ in his prime.
earl thomas is the primary reason that secondary succeeds

his elite range and intelligence are key
The Legion of Boom holds and contacts the receivers on every play and once in a blue moon their called for it. The NFL/officials are to blame for this BS. Hell I could play DB if I'm allowed to hold on every play. Put 8 to 9 men in the box,stop the run and have your defensive backs hold on every play. I have no idea why more teams aren't doing it. Fangio should've put 8 in the box on Lynch,jammed the midget receivers of the Seachickens and held them if they tried a double move.
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
i understand people are angry with Sherman, but make no mistake about it, he's the best CB since Champ in his prime.

not angry about the recent game but I don't the way he (or the rest of that secondary) play the game and think if he was penalised as often as he should be we'd see a different player and that defence wouldn't be half as good.

Respect him for what he's achieved, don't respect the way they're coached to play.
Actually, the league will start drafting players like Sherman; big, physical, and smart. Which, in turn, will cause teams to draft big, physical wide recievers that can counter such physical play. Drafting small DB's that won't be able to hang with such recievers would leave huge holes in the secondary. Drafting a corner like Sherman is not only smart but necessary.
It's not about the Seattle guys being talented. They plug in anyone and he has success. You really think they hit on all these late round/ undrafted big dbs? Hell no. It's how these guys are illegally playing and being coached combined with their length, that is why they're so good.

Richard Sherman would not be that good of a corner within the rules. What we and everyone else should do is draft any corner with good size and at least decent athletic ability, then coach them up just like the Seahawks DBs get coached up. Whenever the receiver makes his cut, you use those long arms and grab that jersey and pull yourself closer to him. Grab that wr every play. Be 'physical'.
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Originally posted by UKNiner:
he's also good because every time he's getting beat (or about to get beat) he holds - watch the bearhugs, watch the pushing people off their routes downfield, watch him him the player before the ball gets there, watch the "inadvertent contact" happen time and time again. 7th (equal) most penalised player in The NFL this year (and it should have been much, much worse).

He's no Revis, heck he's no Peterson, heck he might only be the third best player in their LOB - he's no Earl Thomas that's for sure.

i understand people are angry with Sherman, but make no mistake about it, he's the best CB since Champ in his prime.

Nope. UkNiner is absolutely correct. Dude is only so good because he's so good at grabbing at illegally contacting guys. I give him credit for being smart, a student of the game, and having good ball skills. As a true corner though, he is not very talented at all. He's not very fast, plays high up, not fluid in the hips, and has poor change of direction skills. These are all essential to playing corner. How does he compensate? Well we all know how, he simply uses those long arms and tugs on the guy whenever he makes his break. Not hard to stick with someone if you can do that.
Originally posted by NinerGod:
Actually, the league will start drafting players like Sherman; big, physical, and smart. Which, in turn, will cause teams to draft big, physical wide recievers that can counter such physical play. Drafting small DB's that won't be able to hang with such recievers would leave huge holes in the secondary. Drafting a corner like Sherman is not only smart but necessary.

Not a bad point, but you have to consider that by far our best CB (Brock) is also our smallest. But I do agree with a minimum height. While my point was that 6'3" CBs will get over drafted, I don't belive in drafting anyone under 5'10"/5'11". There are exceptions, of course, but it's a rule I belive in. Learned from Ty Hill
The Seahawks are our rivals and the NFC west goes through them, it only makes sense to make counter moves, and adjust to their strengths.

We need big, fast WRs, and big fast CBs NAO!
[ Edited by verb1der on Jan 22, 2014 at 8:01 PM ]
Originally posted by Tigerlaw:
earl thomas is the primary reason that secondary succeeds

his elite range and intelligence are key

This. Thomas is the glue, the system is the cornerback's. Browner got suspended and they barely skipped a beat. Guys are taught systematically to hold the receiver to the inside of their body, making it difficult for the referees to see. In the games that those holding and PI's have been called frequently, their CB's didn't look all that hot. Thomas though is the guy who makes everything happen, he can cover an insane amount of ground and he allows them to cheat on coverage and treat Kam Chancellor as basically another outside linebacker.


With the way they run their system, they could replace Sherman, replace Maxwell and still be fine if the guys replacing them are coached and allowed to play in the same manner. The system allows them to take guys late in the draft, coach them up and then have them regularly hold the s**t out of people in coverage. If the NFL were to start calling them for every single transgression, their secondary would be exposed as a middle of the road unit with Thomas as the only true elite performer.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Jan 22, 2014 at 8:12 PM ]
Originally posted by NinerGod:
Actually, the league will start drafting players like Sherman; big, physical, and smart. Which, in turn, will cause teams to draft big, physical wide recievers that can counter such physical play. Drafting small DB's that won't be able to hang with such recievers would leave huge holes in the secondary. Drafting a corner like Sherman is not only smart but necessary.
You would have a point if the bolded was true. I'm just not sure getting bigger WRs is really how you would best counter big CBs like Sherman. It would seem to play right into their hands as it gives them a bigger target to latch on to, makes it easier to play illegal contact off as inadvertent and they don't have to worry about those big receivers making sharp cuts and burning them on deep routes. How you counteract this is buy getting smaller, quicker guys who are able to make sharp cuts and savy enough to get off of press coverage with the speed and acceleration to break away from the CBs once they get off the line.

There is still going to be a need for conventional smaller, shiftier CBs in the NFL imo. The only thing Seattle's DBs have proven is that it is possible to win, and be extremely successful with big CBs which was previously thought to be impossible.
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Right now, with Denver and Seattle being in the Superbowl, everyone in this copy-cat league wants to re-create what these teams have done to get there. In Denver's case, that's having arguably the greatest QB of all time. So...since that's not exactly easy to recreate, everyone is looking at Seattle and wants to draft big, long corners and safeties. Before we all go crazy with that, lets take a step back and think a few things through:

  1. This happens every year. One year everyone wants a deep receiver core like NO, a d-line like NY's, LBs like in Pitt, a safety like Bob Sanders, etc etc. There are many ways to win. Seattle showed that you can do it with long DBs.
  2. These guys are going to get over-drafted like crazy. Sit back, let the dumb teams over-draft bad players because they're "the next Sherman," when in reality length is all they have in common, and instead take good football players.
  3. Richard Sherman is not good because he's 6'3". Richard Sherman is good. Richard Sherman is 6'3". And he uses that height to his advantage. He's also extremely smart, never bites on fakes, has tremendous ball skills, and reads a WR's routes as well as anyone. Lets not assume every tall player will be Sherman.
  4. We also need a smaller, quicker guy who has lateral movement skills to cover smaller, slot receivers. Seattle has Thomas, who is by no means a big guy. Looks like our secondary may go into next year with Culliver, Brock and Reid as the only 3 guys that are not primarily special teams players. They're all pretty big kids. We'll need someone smaller as well.
I'm all about length in football. I think Sherman, and Watt and Aldon and Jeffries and Kaep, have recently shown just how effective it can be. But lets not get carried away and over-draft a crappy player just because his arms are a little longer.

Please change this to say "football smart". I think he has proved otherwise.
Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:
You would have a point if the bolded was true. I'm just not sure getting bigger WRs is really how you would best counter big CBs like Sherman. It would seem to play right into their hands as it gives them a bigger target to latch on to, makes it easier to play illegal contact off as inadvertent and they don't have to worry about those big receivers making sharp cuts and burning them on deep routes. How you counteract this is buy getting smaller, quicker guys who are able to make sharp cuts and savy enough to get off of press coverage with the speed and acceleration to break away from the CBs once they get off the line.

There is still going to be a need for conventional smaller, shiftier CBs in the NFL imo. The only thing Seattle's DBs have proven is that it is possible to win, and be extremely successful with big CBs which was previously thought to be impossible.



Thank you, not sure why this is so hard to understand. Yes a bigger receiver will do better against press coverage, however, they are an even bigger target to be held and joustled all the way down field. A smaller fast guy, you might be able to knock him around a bit when pressing, but if he gets off press coverage and gets a step on you......goodnight.



This is how a smaller, faster receiver can light up that secondary.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by Tigerlaw:
earl thomas is the primary reason that secondary succeeds

his elite range and intelligence are key

This. Thomas is the glue, the system is the cornerback's. Browner got suspended and they barely skipped a beat. Guys are taught systematically to hold the receiver to the inside of their body, making it difficult for the referees to see. In the games that those holding and PI's have been called frequently, their CB's didn't look all that hot. Thomas though is the guy who makes everything happen, he can cover an insane amount of ground and he allows them to cheat on coverage and treat Kam Chancellor as basically another outside linebacker.


With the way they run their system, they could replace Sherman, replace Maxwell and still be fine if the guys replacing them are coached and allowed to play in the same manner. The system allows them to take guys late in the draft, coach them up and then have them regularly hold the s**t out of people in coverage. If the NFL were to start calling them for every single transgression, their secondary would be exposed as a middle of the road unit with Thomas as the only true elite performer.

I've coached DB's for over half a decade an I want my guys to play smart and aggressive. They watch the heck out film, know their fundamentals, and most importantly play aggressive. In HS the rules are like the old NFL so they can do much more, but its essentially what the NFL lets Seattle do now. Very physical, hands on football that disrupts timing. If you couple this with a decent pass rush, your defense looks damn good.
Originally posted by BadgerHawk:
I've coached DB's for over half a decade an I want my guys to play smart and aggressive. They watch the heck out film, know their fundamentals, and most importantly play aggressive. In HS the rules are like the old NFL so they can do much more, but its essentially what the NFL lets Seattle do now. Very physical, hands on football that disrupts timing. If you couple this with a decent pass rush, your defense looks damn good.

I would also have no problem with it at all if everyone was treated equally across the board, meaning receivers can lay the defensive back on his ass and other teams can get the benefit of the doubt defensively. But after seeing 49ers defensive backs get called for some very ticky-tack and sometimes borderline awful PI calls, the discrepancy on what Seattle gets away with versus what other teams get away with is pretty disconcerting.