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Jason Verrett-CB-TCU

Originally posted by buck:
I think we will draft two cornerbacks.

Players I like organized by rounds

rounds 1 and 2

Justin Gilbert--would require major trade
Jason Verrett
Bradley Roby
Kyle Fuller

rounds 3 and 4

Phillip Gaines
Pierre Desir
Stanley Jean-Baptiste
Jaylen Watkins

rounds 5 (and 6)

Brandon Dixon
Jabari Price
Shaquille Richardson
Walt Aikens

UDFA

Marcus Williams (play at free safety)

Do you guys think Roby will drop to the 2nd round? I love Verrett as a slot CB, ideally I'd like to see us get 2 CBs, one that is a slot guy like JV and another with more size who is better suitable for the outside. Would be fantastic if we could end up with Verrett and Roby, then nab a WR.
Originally posted by matt49er:
Do you guys think Roby will drop to the 2nd round?

I hope he does, but I don't even think he'll be there at 30. Verrett's more polished in his man coverage right now, but Roby is much more violent & has a higher ceiling IMO. Either would be great, but I'd want Roby more.

The one caveat to this is Verrett probably has higher character than Roby. Roby's apparently a bit of a punk (don't quote me on that; it's just what I heard, so I'm irresponsibly repeating it).
[ Edited by VPofCarnage on Mar 29, 2014 at 10:51 AM ]
Originally posted by VPofCarnage:
Originally posted by matt49er:
Do you guys think Roby will drop to the 2nd round?

I hope he does, but I don't even think he'll be there at 30. Verrett's more polished in his man coverage right now, but Roby is much more violent & has a higher ceiling IMO. Either would be great, but I'd want Roby more.

The one caveat to this is Verrett probably has higher character than Roby. Roby's apparently a bit of a punk (don't quote me on that; it's just what I heard, so I'm irresponsibly repeating it).

Depends on how coachable a team finds Roby to be. He has a lot to work on for someone with 1st-2nd round aspirations. Game after game, I was surprised how often he let the receiver get behind him. Seems very straight-linish and not as quick as you'd like. Very inconsistent in press coverage and in tackling. Throws his body too much. Worried the guy is going to get hurt playing the way he plays.

I grade Roby a 3rd rounder, and if he does have character flags like you mentioned he might, I think the 1st round for him becomes highly unlikely.
[ Edited by OnTheClock on Mar 29, 2014 at 8:35 PM ]
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Depends on how coachable a team finds Roby to be. He has a lot to work on for someone with 1st-2nd round aspirations. Game after game, I was surprised how often he let the receiver get behind him. Seems very straight-linish and not as quick as you'd like. Very inconsistent in press coverage and in tackling. Throws his body too much. Worried the guy is going to get hurt playing the way he plays.

I grade Roby a 3rd rounder, and if he does have character flags like you mentioned he might, I think the 1st round for him becomes highly unlikely.

Roby was apparently a little bit banged up this year, and he had that one-game suspension. It was an off year, but Roby just has the rare kind of closing speed & quick reaction you just can't teach. And although Verrett is much more polished in coverage at this point, Roby is a MUCH better hitter & will get in receivers' heads IMO.

Roby's also a year younger than Verrett, so Verrett's had another year to refine his technique. I love both of these prospects, but if I'm thinking long-term investment (and that looks like Baalke's strategy w/ his inactivity in free agency), I'm going w/ Roby.
[ Edited by VPofCarnage on Mar 30, 2014 at 12:42 PM ]
I'm happy my recent mock has us getting both of them. I love the athleticism and tenacity of both. They would fit our defense perfectly and give us that playmaking element in the secondary that changes games for us. Don't get me wrong, I would be happy with either one, but we have the ability to get both and we'd be relentless against other teams if we did.
Originally posted by VPofCarnage:
Roby was apparently a little bit banged up this year, and he had that one-game suspension. It was an off year, but Roby just has the rare kind of closing speed & quick reaction you just can't teach. And although Verrett is much more polished in coverage at this point, Roby is a MUCH better hitter & will get in receivers' heads IMO.

Roby's also a year younger than Verrett, so Verrett's had another year to refine his technique. I love both of these prospects, but if I'm thinking long-term investment (and that looks like Baalke's strategy w/ his inactivity in free agency), I'm going w/ Roby.

So he'd make a better safety than Verrett would. Even then that's a bit iffy because he tends to be a so-so tackler in the open field.


Both Verrett and Roby were banged up this year, yet one guy shutdown most of the people he covered, the other guy was lit up repeatedly like a Christmas tree. My issue with Roby is that he's been backsliding, he looked sloppy this season, all the natural talent and athleticism are there to be a damn good cornerback but all the talent in the world doesn't override a 10 cent brain.


If you start watching Verrett 3 years ago and move to the present, you can see the steady improvement in his game, improved awareness, improved footwork, better confidence, if I look at Roby, he's actually been going backwards and that's a scary proposition, those types of guys often continue that sort of regression into the NFL.


People will point to his struggles against Abbrederis but the Cal game to me was a huge red flag with him defending against Chris Harper. He looked really awkward, didn't show any real confidence and Harper made some huge catches against him, going for over 120 yards. If I were to basis Roby's draft grade on that one game, I'd say this dude is a 5th or 6th rounder at best.



Once again, the talent, the athleticism, they all are there, the mental side of things, especially with him having some off the field issues, I don't know where this guy's head is at or will be at when he gets into the NFL. If its a simple matter of someone having bad technique, footwork, that all can be developed, coaches can work with that. A guy who loses focus at key moments, who appeared to be lost out on the field at times, that's a much more difficult proposition to deal with. As it stands right now, I would take Verrett over Roby without the slightest hesitation.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Mar 30, 2014 at 1:09 PM ]
I think Verrett is more NFL-ready and may be the better slot CB prospect than Roby, but I'm not sure he will be able to play on the outside against bigger receivers.

At 5'9 with short arms, he won't always be able to contest passes even with a large vertical jump. There are receivers who can get up almost a full foot higher than Verrett so if the ball is placed well, all he can do is try to hit the guy hard and knock it loose which is not one of his strengths (Mike Evans is an example - he's 8 inches taller and his arms are almost 4 inches longer and he's got a similar vertical). Against most teams, Verrett would be able to play on the outside as well as in the slot, but not against teams like the Bears where he would be physically outmatched by Marshall or Jeffery.

Roby is a little taller and longer and hits harder so he should be able to transition to a permanent outside corner but he doesn't have great length so he may struggle against bigger receivers.

I'd be fine with either of these guys at 30, but would prefer Tuitt and a slot corner like Watkins or Breeland (or P Gaines) later. I think Roby is a little more versatile while Verrett is definitely a better player right now and would help us more against the Seahawks in the near future if Harvin is healthy.
Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:
I think Verrett is more NFL-ready and may be the better slot CB prospect than Roby, but I'm not sure he will be able to play on the outside against bigger receivers.

At 5'9 with short arms, he won't always be able to contest passes even with a large vertical jump. There are receivers who can get up almost a full foot higher than Verrett so if the ball is placed well, all he can do is try to hit the guy hard and knock it loose which is not one of his strengths (Mike Evans is an example - he's 8 inches taller and his arms are almost 4 inches longer and he's got a similar vertical). Against most teams, Verrett would be able to play on the outside as well as in the slot, but not against teams like the Bears where he would be physically outmatched by Marshall or Jeffery.

Roby is a little taller and longer and hits harder so he should be able to transition to a permanent outside corner but he doesn't have great length so he may struggle against bigger receivers.

I'd be fine with either of these guys at 30, but would prefer Tuitt and a slot corner like Watkins or Breeland (or P Gaines) later. I think Roby is a little more versatile while Verrett is definitely a better player right now and would help us more against the Seahawks in the near future if Harvin is healthy.


Roby has pretty much everything you want in a prototypical high quality NFL starting cornerback but the mental acuity and fortitude. Will that light ever click back on? That's the risk anyone who drafts him is going to take.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Roby has pretty much everything you want in a prototypical high quality NFL starting cornerback but the mental acuity and fortitude. Will that light ever click back on? That's the risk anyone who drafts him is going to take.

I agree - I think Verrett is the safer prospect for sure and I think he will be taken in the first round while Roby will drop to the early second. If he puts it altogether he can be a better and more versatile player than Verrett.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
So he'd make a better safety than Verrett would. Even then that's a bit iffy because he tends to be a so-so tackler in the open field.

You think Roby's open-field tackling is just so-so? I thought that was one of his best qualities.
[ Edited by VPofCarnage on Mar 30, 2014 at 1:39 PM ]
Originally posted by VPofCarnage:
You think Roby's open-field tackling is just so-so? I thought that was one of his best qualities.

Yes. I'm certainly not the only one either. As usual with Roby, it comes down to mental errors, either going for a monster hit and whiffing or simply using bad form.



Roby


Run Support-2 Plays bigger than average-sized frame. Effort can be a bit spotty but for most part plays with a chip and willing to throw body around. Does average job of keeping blockers off body but does struggle to disengage once reached. Will wrap up and shows ability to generate adequate short-area power. Makes some diving pursuit tackles from behind. Misses a few too many open-field tackles. Can be a bit reckless and undisciplined. Flies off the edge and will sacrifice body when turned loose on blitz. Also has been effective as a gunner and blocking kicks on special teams (three career kick blocks).

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/33622


Verrett might get overmatched at times in the run game but he's a fairly reliable and consistent open-field tackler.


http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/34111

Verrett


Run Support-2 Plays bigger than measurables. More than willing to support run. Can get overwhelmed at point of attack by bigger blockers on occasion but usually able to work off of blocks and at least contribute by funneling ball carrier back inside. Takes quality angles and breaks down well in space. Closes in a flash. Shows some initial pop as a hitter (see: knockout blow to Texas Tech TE Jace Amaro). Also does a good job of hog-tying ball carriers in space.






Also, let's put to rest the idea that Verrett can't lay someone the f**k out.






https://mtc.cdn.vine.co/r/videos/830F7730-7E0A-4B44-9DE0-6AE5D1C3225C-4847-0000045DE17F1894_1f47b4d77ec.1.3.mp4?versionId=GKOe5dH1fF3z5eIrJbCL8KQ6qOw1pde6


[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Mar 30, 2014 at 1:53 PM ]
  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 10,557
Culliver.

At least, he did not wait until the night before the draft to much it up.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by VPofCarnage:
You think Roby's open-field tackling is just so-so? I thought that was one of his best qualities.

Yes. I'm certainly not the only one either. As usual with Roby, it comes down to mental errors, either going for a monster hit and whiffing or simply using bad form.



Roby


Run Support-2 Plays bigger than average-sized frame. Effort can be a bit spotty but for most part plays with a chip and willing to throw body around. Does average job of keeping blockers off body but does struggle to disengage once reached. Will wrap up and shows ability to generate adequate short-area power. Makes some diving pursuit tackles from behind. Misses a few too many open-field tackles. Can be a bit reckless and undisciplined. Flies off the edge and will sacrifice body when turned loose on blitz. Also has been effective as a gunner and blocking kicks on special teams (three career kick blocks).

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/33622


Verrett might get overmatched at times in the run game but he's a fairly reliable and consistent open-field tackler.


http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/34111

Verrett


Run Support-2 Plays bigger than measurables. More than willing to support run. Can get overwhelmed at point of attack by bigger blockers on occasion but usually able to work off of blocks and at least contribute by funneling ball carrier back inside. Takes quality angles and breaks down well in space. Closes in a flash. Shows some initial pop as a hitter (see: knockout blow to Texas Tech TE Jace Amaro). Also does a good job of hog-tying ball carriers in space.





Also, let's put to rest the idea that Verrett can't lay someone the f**k out.






https://mtc.cdn.vine.co/r/videos/830F7730-7E0A-4B44-9DE0-6AE5D1C3225C-4847-0000045DE17F1894_1f47b4d77ec.1.3.mp4?versionId=GKOe5dH1fF3z5eIrJbCL8KQ6qOw1pde6



Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Roby has pretty much everything you want in a prototypical high quality NFL starting cornerback but the mental acuity and fortitude. Will that light ever click back on? That's the risk anyone who drafts him is going to take.

I agree - I think Verrett is the safer prospect for sure and I think he will be taken in the first round while Roby will drop to the early second. If he puts it altogether he can be a better and more versatile player than Verrett.

I don't think Verrett will be there at 30. If there is an early round 1 run on CB's, definitely not.
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by VPofCarnage:
Originally posted by matt49er:
Do you guys think Roby will drop to the 2nd round?

I hope he does, but I don't even think he'll be there at 30. Verrett's more polished in his man coverage right now, but Roby is much more violent & has a higher ceiling IMO. Either would be great, but I'd want Roby more.

The one caveat to this is Verrett probably has higher character than Roby. Roby's apparently a bit of a punk (don't quote me on that; it's just what I heard, so I'm irresponsibly repeating it).

Depends on how coachable a team finds Roby to be. He has a lot to work on for someone with 1st-2nd round aspirations. Game after game, I was surprised how often he let the receiver get behind him. Seems very straight-linish and not as quick as you'd like. Very inconsistent in press coverage and in tackling. Throws his body too much. Worried the guy is going to get hurt playing the way he plays.

I grade Roby a 3rd rounder, and if he does have character flags like you mentioned he might, I think the 1st round for him becomes highly unlikely.

you're not the only one.