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Jason Verrett-CB-TCU

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:
The vital difference is that Tramaine was undrafted. When Baalke drafts a CB, the 6'1 Culliver has been the model.

I respectfully disagree in that I don't believe that he's drafted enough cornerbacks to have a model, or at least for anyone to be able to fully describe it.



He's drafted Culliver, he's drafted Cooper, he drafted a smaller safety/CB in Trent Robinson. He also drafted Phillip Adams and Curtis Holcomb, both who are 5'10"....and that is it.
You neglected to mention Marcus Cooper who is 6'1. Culliver is a mere 6-0. Trent Robinson was/is a safety. Philip Adams is 5'10 5/8 while Curtis Holcomb is 5-10 3/4. Neither of which is 5-9 1/4. Also, Adams and Holcomb were 7th rounders, pick 250 and 224 respectively.
Originally posted by NeonNiner:
Originally posted by Raul98:
I'm worried Baalke doesn't get this guy because of his height or length of his arms. We all know Baalke has a thing for long arms. I picture Verrett being a similar player to Brock he will be aggressive and good in coverage and get a lot of picks. I love the idea of Verrett and Brock being so young being able to grow in this Defense. Along with Culliver. It will be a shame if that doesn't happen cause of his height.

That's what I'm worried about as well. I'm hoping Baalke doesn't go overboard and takes a lesser CB because of superior arm length and/or height. Verrett would be the ideal nickel/slot CB in our scheme. He has exceptional speed and athleticism that matches up well with the Tavon Austin's and Percy Harvin's in our division. As far as his man to man coverage skills - he's among the top tier in this CB class to go along with having excellent ball skills (dudes a ballhawk -- I want another one of those in this secondary) and solid tackling ability. He may be small but he's a fierce competitor and his strength shouldn't be questioned - 19 reps with a torn labrum.

Justin Gilbert and Darqueeze Dennard won't get past pick 15 but I'm optimistic Verrett should be around - we'll probably have to trade up a bit to get him but he's worth it. Just hope Baalke thinks so too.
your right on all points i just hope Baalke sees the talent this kid has and not his height or physical features. And your right about the Austins and Harvins Verrett has the speed and skill to shadow them and hopefully take them out of games while Culliver and Brock hold down the outside ( i don't see Brown coming back)
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by Harbaalke:
Verner plays in a Cover 2 scheme NOT a good comparison. I like Verrett but NOT as a 1st round pick especially if he is missing significant time most likely a day 2 pick

Disagree. TCU plays a whole lot of zone coverages (cover 2, cover 3, cover 5) and mixes in some man within that 4-2-5 scheme. The Titans play mostly cover 2 in base formations, but Jerry Gray relies heavily on sub packages most notably his RUBY package (3-2-6 alignment) which asks Verner to play on an island. Verrett also compares a little to Brent Grimes who was once upon a time playing mostly zone coverages under Mike Smith and BVG. Under Nolan and then in Miami under Coyle he played a lot more press man (though they still mixed in a fair amount of zone) and still played at the same high level.

On another note, anyone knocking JV's size (5'94 189 lbs) should look no further than Tramaine Brock who reportedly measured in at 5'96 195 at his pro day. Verrett's play at TCU was that of an impact player in that defensive backfield and he can compete for the starting slot corner in TC (which he should be ready for), and begin to push Brock and Cully for their spots outside as he develops.

Still NOT a 1st round pick bro all those guys you compared were drafted late to NOT being drafted at all.
Originally posted by Harbaalke:
Still NOT a 1st round pick bro all those guys you compared were drafted late to NOT being drafted at all.

Antoine Winfield.....oh yes, he was a 1st rounder.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by Harbaalke:
Still NOT a 1st round pick bro all those guys you compared were drafted late to NOT being drafted at all.

Antoine Winfield.....oh yes, he was a 1st rounder.

So was Kyle Wilson
Originally posted by 49er_Rider:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by Harbaalke:
Still NOT a 1st round pick bro all those guys you compared were drafted late to NOT being drafted at all.

Antoine Winfield.....oh yes, he was a 1st rounder.

So was Kyle Wilson

I see your point I just like the fact that CBs can be found late compared to WRs we need playmakers on offense
Originally posted by Harbaalke:
Still NOT a 1st round pick bro all those guys you compared were drafted late to NOT being drafted at all.

Where they were drafted is irrelevant in the grand scheme. The comparisons serve to support that despite their being undersized, it had no bearing on there ability to play at a high level and make an impact for their respective teams.

The Seahawks spent a high draft choice on an undersized safety and he is their best DB. This past year the Cards spent a 3rd on an undersized DB who would have been picked a lot higher if not for "head up his ass" concerns. Both picks worked out well (to date in TM's case) despite both players not fitting the prototypical size.

Verrett's game film and combine numbers clearly show a 1st round talent. If he were a couple inches taller, he'd be in the discussion for 1st corner off the board.
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by Harbaalke:
Still NOT a 1st round pick bro all those guys you compared were drafted late to NOT being drafted at all.

Where they were drafted is irrelevant in the grand scheme. The comparisons serve to support that despite their being undersized, it had no bearing on there ability to play at a high level and make an impact for their respective teams.

The Seahawks spent a high draft choice on an undersized safety and he is their best DB. This past year the Cards spent a 3rd on an undersized DB who would have been picked a lot higher if not for "head up his ass" concerns. Both picks worked out well (to date in TM's case) despite both players not fitting the prototypical size.

Verrett's game film and combine numbers clearly show a 1st round talent. If he were a couple inches taller, he'd be in the discussion for 1st corner off the board.

Agreed, this guy is allot like Jenkins (rams cb) without as much baggage. IMO Cully lines up the best with the big WRs this team typically faces and Verrett could instantly start at the nickel and be huge in neutralizing Ellington, Harvin or Austin.

If a guy can play they can play, doesnt matter their size.
[ Edited by 5280High on Mar 8, 2014 at 8:34 AM ]
Originally posted by 5280High:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by Harbaalke:
Still NOT a 1st round pick bro all those guys you compared were drafted late to NOT being drafted at all.

Where they were drafted is irrelevant in the grand scheme. The comparisons serve to support that despite their being undersized, it had no bearing on there ability to play at a high level and make an impact for their respective teams.

The Seahawks spent a high draft choice on an undersized safety and he is their best DB. This past year the Cards spent a 3rd on an undersized DB who would have been picked a lot higher if not for "head up his ass" concerns. Both picks worked out well (to date in TM's case) despite both players not fitting the prototypical size.

Verrett's game film and combine numbers clearly show a 1st round talent. If he were a couple inches taller, he'd be in the discussion for 1st corner off the board.

Agreed, this guy is allot like Jenkins (rams cb) without as much baggage. IMO Cully lines up the best with the big WRs this team typically faces and Verrett could instantly start at the nickel and be huge in neutralizing Ellington, Harvin or Austin.

If a guy can play they can play, doesnt matter their size.

With all due respect the reason I stated he was NOT a 1st round pick because I believe his surgery will drop him to the 2nd round just like Jimmy Ward it was NOT about his stature and if you take the time to go back and review my conversation you will see that. Taking my statement out of context is NOT a proper way to prove you point since I like Verrett but NOT as in the 1st round.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:
The vital difference is that Tramaine was undrafted. When Baalke drafts a CB, the 6'1 Culliver has been the model.

I respectfully disagree in that I don't believe that he's drafted enough cornerbacks to have a model, or at least for anyone to be able to fully describe it.



He's drafted Culliver, he's drafted Cooper, he drafted a smaller safety/CB in Trent Robinson. He also drafted Phillip Adams and Curtis Holcomb, both who are 5'10"....and that is it.

Phoenix is completely neglecting the fact that Baalke DOES favour bigger players, especially early in drafts. We all know this! You argue to not be wrong, instead of finding a mutual solution or agreement. Work on that.

Vance, Reid and Tank are all physically imposing. AJ Jenkins is 6'1", 200lbs and has "E.T. hands". The only exception has been LaMichael James, who they still don't fully trust.

Whether this is a good or bad thing in terms of evaluation is debatable. For example, I hope Tyrann Mathieu wasn't passed on just because of his size, but that's a definite possibility.

LaMarcus Joyner is an interesting player, who like Verrett, has everything you want in a DB, except ideal size. Brandon Cooks is also skilled, but diminutive at WR.

All of these factors, coupled with the fact that this is kind of a make or break draft for Baalke (2011-good, 2012-terrible, 2013-work in progress), add to the drama. I can't wait to see what happens and I fully trust the 49ers brass to make the correct decisions (Trade up and get Mike Evans).

Go Niners!
Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:
You neglected to mention Marcus Cooper who is 6'1. Culliver is a mere 6-0. Trent Robinson was/is a safety. Philip Adams is 5'10 5/8 while Curtis Holcomb is 5-10 3/4. Neither of which is 5-9 1/4. Also, Adams and Holcomb were 7th rounders, pick 250 and 224 respectively.



I did mention Cooper if you read through my post, also what round was he picked in again?
Originally posted by doc_brown_:
Phoenix is completely neglecting the fact that Baalke DOES favour bigger players, especially early in drafts. We all know this! You argue to not be wrong, instead of finding a mutual solution or agreement. Work on that.

Vance, Reid and Tank are all physically imposing. AJ Jenkins is 6'1", 200lbs and has "E.T. hands". The only exception has been LaMichael James, who they still don't fully trust.

Whether this is a good or bad thing in terms of evaluation is debatable. For example, I hope Tyrann Mathieu wasn't passed on just because of his size, but that's a definite possibility.

LaMarcus Joyner is an interesting player, who like Verrett, has everything you want in a DB, except ideal size. Brandon Cooks is also skilled, but diminutive at WR.

All of these factors, coupled with the fact that this is kind of a make or break draft for Baalke (2011-good, 2012-terrible, 2013-work in progress), add to the drama. I can't wait to see what happens and I fully trust the 49ers brass to make the correct decisions (Trade up and get Mike Evans).

Go Niners!

AJ Jenkins was about 6'0", 190 pounds when he was drafted......hardly physically imposing.




Phoenix is completely neglecting the fact that Baalke DOES favour bigger players, especially early in drafts. We all know this! You argue to not be wrong, instead of finding a mutual solution or agreement. Work on that.


The problem is in your assumption is that he simply won't draft a more talented player because they are not the biggest available option. In 2011, Aldon was basically the obvious pick due to the team needing a pass rusher, in 2012, they needed a receiver, they went with Jenkins instead of a guy like Brian Quick...ie....physically imposing, in 2013 they needed a safety badly, they went with Reid who was the best safety on their board and regarded as the #2 or #3 safety in the entire draft.

They went with McDonald, a TE, who isn't anymore imposing than say Travis Kelce or any number of other tight-ends they could have gone with, that's just the size tight-ends are running, look at this years draft and some of the monsters that are out there.


I'm sure Baalke likes length, especially at positions such as the DL and OL but nothing I've seen yet has shown that he'll exclude a more talented player due to their size or their lack of it, anyone who claims he will, is just making a huge assumption based on their own preconceived biases.
Originally posted by Harbaalke:
With all due respect the reason I stated he was NOT a 1st round pick because I believe his surgery will drop him to the 2nd round just like Jimmy Ward it was NOT about his stature and if you take the time to go back and review my conversation you will see that. Taking my statement out of context is NOT a proper way to prove you point since I like Verrett but NOT as in the 1st round.

There's little evidence that the surgery he's having has ever dropped anyone. He's not the first potential draft pick to end up having this surgery in the offseason. If we're talking about repairing a torn ACL or a guy that has a nagging foot injury, then sure, but a torn labrum that is relatively straightforward to repair isn't going to make a team think twice about him unless they are truly desperate. A team like the 49ers, Seattle, Denver, New Orleans.....I don't think they'd be concerned enough about the injury to pass up on him if they really liked him as a player. He'll be available for the start of training camp so its not like he's going to be set way back as a result.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:
You neglected to mention Marcus Cooper who is 6'1. Culliver is a mere 6-0. Trent Robinson was/is a safety. Philip Adams is 5'10 5/8 while Curtis Holcomb is 5-10 3/4. Neither of which is 5-9 1/4. Also, Adams and Holcomb were 7th rounders, pick 250 and 224 respectively.



I did mention Cooper if you read through my post, also what round was he picked in again?
My apologies. I meant to write that you neglected to note that Cooper is 6'1. Yes, he was another late pick. So, two 6' plus CBs, one of them in the 3rd round; three other CBs picked in the 7th round, one of them 6'1. Culliver was hurt last year, but both Adams and Holcomb had season-ending injuries in their first season (Holcomb's injury came prior to the season). The CB in the highest round for Baalke to have picked is almost three inches taller than 5'9 1/4, in a guy who will miss OTAs and minicamp.
[ Edited by Paul_Hofer on Mar 8, 2014 at 12:01 PM ]
Interview with Verrett from NFL Network.



http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000331190/article/tcu-cb-jason-verrett-to-have-labrum-surgery