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Instant improvement to 49ers Offense: Austin Seferian-Jenkins

Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Clearly my own observation is going to drive my opinion about the probability that 1 will succeed and the other will not. I have not seen anything from Robinson that tells me he will be successful in the NFL, I've seen plenty from ASJ to suggest he will. I'll admit that this is not fact, but purely my own observation, and that's why I made this thread, because based on my observation, and what I see, 1 is much more likely to be a star than the other.

The Jimmy Grahm example was to demonstrate that it's not ALL about position. That a TE, which you say we don't need, would actually be HUGE for our team if he was extremely good. My estimate for ASJ is that he'll be extremely good. Of course that could not come true, thus the nature of the draft.



Which is fine and dandy, that is your own opinion. Personally I think Robinson can be a pretty good NFL receiver and a guy that would get plenty of snaps were Boldin not to be re-signed. A third TE means you basically are tossing McDonald into the trash, he needs snaps to develop, he won't get snaps as the #3 TE, unless you're arguing for this team to run a 3 TE offense, which you might have to take up with Harbaugh. Robinson, Beckham, a guy like Lee, all much more reasonable picks because they fill a need. Or there could be a pick at CB, even center, all bigger needs than TE. McDonald will develop, he will improve and there's no way you somehow know that he can't be a very good NFL TE. We've seen flashes of it this season as a rookie, I expect him to only continue to improve.


Your opinions are yours to have, I just think the odds of the 49ers dropping a 1st round pick on a TE with all the other needs considered are about 1 out of a 1000. I wouldn't waste a first rounder on a TE when I already have 2 that are perfectly capable and one that is a very good backup. If nothing else, this season showed the need for quality targets at wide receiver, 49ers were forced to depend on bums like Kyle Williams and Marlon Moore because they didn't have anyone else. Its time to alleviate that entire situation and build the WR corps the way teams like Green Bay have done.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Jan 7, 2014 at 6:05 PM ]
I've watched every game of ASJ's career. While he would help out a lot, we JUST spent a 2nd rounder on McDonald. This dude won't get out of the first round. Would much rather take a receiver or db
Originally posted by spizzy:
I've watched every game of ASJ's career. While he would help out a lot, we JUST spent a 2nd rounder on McDonald. This dude won't get out of the first round. Would much rather take a receiver or db

I think the whole notion of declaring McDonald a failure after one season is ridiculous. The guy has gotten few targets, he's made some nice plays, had improved as a blocker, you don't just dump a rookie after one season because something shiny catches your idea, no matter how you word it, drafting a TE in the first round is basically dumping McDonald and giving up on him. I don't see Baalke doing that, I can see them drafting a TE, but not until much later on in the draft. You never know what will happen but compared to other positions on this team, they are very solid at TE. VD is one of the best in the NFL, McDonald is promising, Celek has been solid as a #3, unless Baalke and co is completely sold that some guy out there IS the next Gronkowski, I wouldn't expect a TE in the early rounds.
Originally posted by kem99:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
It's an assumption, sure, but i also don't see it as veteran versus new receiver. The guys Kaep doesn't throw to aren't very good. Jenkins is awful, Baldwin has zero ball skills and McDonald has dropped more than his fair share of passes. Now I'm not saying he can't improve, but as of now McDonald just doesn't have good hands. He didn't have good hands coming out of college and that's why certain teams didn't want to draft him. The Seahawks didn't want him because his hands weren't good enough. I don't know what his blocking rep was, but he was raw as a receiver.

Anyone you draft, you draft with the ASSUMPTION that they will help your team. Your assumption can always be wrong. Doesn't have the strength to battle OTs, isn't patient enough as a runner, doesn't catch on to your offense, doesn't match up well with bigger WRs, etc. Every position you assume they'll help, and hope you're right.
McDonald played mostly in the slot at Rice and was their leading or 2nd leading receiver from his 2nd year on.

It was noted on the day the 49ers drafted him that the Seahawks wanted him but, after the 49ers took him, settled for the "blocking TE" at Rice, Wilson.

And, a reminder, Davis didn't have good hands either and dropped a lot of balls in his first few years as well. There are always the outlier exceptions (AJ Jenkins) but teams that give up on their high draft picks too early are not well run organizations.

And, in terms of being a "big target" in the red zone...according to your draft site link, ASJ is 6'6", 266 lbs; according to NFL.com, McDonald is 6'4", 267 lbs. They're both big targets.



to point 2: Seahawks did not want him. I spoke to their TEs coach recently and he told me that it was a misconception. They didn't feel like McDonald had the hands

to point 3: it's rare that a player develops better hands. Davis is an exception, not the rule

to point 4: Watch some videos of ASJ, then find me 1 just 1 play where McDonald goes up and high points the ball. Yous how me 1 such video, I'll stop.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
I think the whole notion of declaring McDonald a failure after one season is ridiculous. The guy has gotten few targets, he's made some nice plays, had improved as a blocker, you don't just dump a rookie after one season because something shiny catches your idea, no matter how you word it, drafting a TE in the first round is basically dumping McDonald and giving up on him. I don't see Baalke doing that, I can see them drafting a TE, but not until much later on in the draft. You never know what will happen but compared to other positions on this team, they are very solid at TE. VD is one of the best in the NFL, McDonald is promising, Celek has been solid as a #3, unless Baalke and co is completely sold that some guy out there IS the next Gronkowski, I wouldn't expect a TE in the early rounds.

Well, the OP is correct when he says that this guy can be the next Gronk. He's that good. But I think this is the year we need a burner receiver
No more WR named "A.Jenkins".
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by spizzy:
I've watched every game of ASJ's career. While he would help out a lot, we JUST spent a 2nd rounder on McDonald. This dude won't get out of the first round. Would much rather take a receiver or db

I think the whole notion of declaring McDonald a failure after one season is ridiculous. The guy has gotten few targets, he's made some nice plays, had improved as a blocker, you don't just dump a rookie after one season because something shiny catches your idea, no matter how you word it, drafting a TE in the first round is basically dumping McDonald and giving up on him. I don't see Baalke doing that, I can see them drafting a TE, but not until much later on in the draft. You never know what will happen but compared to other positions on this team, they are very solid at TE. VD is one of the best in the NFL, McDonald is promising, Celek has been solid as a #3, unless Baalke and co is completely sold that some guy out there IS the next Gronkowski, I wouldn't expect a TE in the early rounds.

I dont' think the point is that McDonald is a bum. I wasn't trying to indicate that he's a bust. But I also have seen ZERO indication that he'll be a successful NFL TE. Maybe he will be, but I have no evidence for it. I've seen more nice plays from Chuck Jacobs than I have from Vance. Why can't I make the same argument about you calling the WR corps bare, since your'e basing that on Chuck Jacobs and Carswell being failures? I'm simply saying that I can't consider TE2 a filled position because the guy holding that spot has not proven to me that he's going to be good, and has seen decreased playing time throughout the year. Also, where are these "flashes" that you've seen? Maybe I'm just not looking hard enough? You're the one making a strong assumption that he will be good. What's that based on? Being a 2nd round pick? Plenty of (most) second round picks aren't effective!
Originally posted by spizzy:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
I think the whole notion of declaring McDonald a failure after one season is ridiculous. The guy has gotten few targets, he's made some nice plays, had improved as a blocker, you don't just dump a rookie after one season because something shiny catches your idea, no matter how you word it, drafting a TE in the first round is basically dumping McDonald and giving up on him. I don't see Baalke doing that, I can see them drafting a TE, but not until much later on in the draft. You never know what will happen but compared to other positions on this team, they are very solid at TE. VD is one of the best in the NFL, McDonald is promising, Celek has been solid as a #3, unless Baalke and co is completely sold that some guy out there IS the next Gronkowski, I wouldn't expect a TE in the early rounds.

Well, the OP is correct when he says that this guy can be the next Gronk. He's that good. But I think this is the year we need a burner receiver

This is what I'm talking about! The guy IS that good! If anyone has seen him play, that's undeniable. To pass that up because of someone who hasn't done anything is wrong.
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Originally posted by spizzy:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
I think the whole notion of declaring McDonald a failure after one season is ridiculous. The guy has gotten few targets, he's made some nice plays, had improved as a blocker, you don't just dump a rookie after one season because something shiny catches your idea, no matter how you word it, drafting a TE in the first round is basically dumping McDonald and giving up on him. I don't see Baalke doing that, I can see them drafting a TE, but not until much later on in the draft. You never know what will happen but compared to other positions on this team, they are very solid at TE. VD is one of the best in the NFL, McDonald is promising, Celek has been solid as a #3, unless Baalke and co is completely sold that some guy out there IS the next Gronkowski, I wouldn't expect a TE in the early rounds.

Well, the OP is correct when he says that this guy can be the next Gronk. He's that good. But I think this is the year we need a burner receiver

This is what I'm talking about! The guy IS that good! If anyone has seen him play, that's undeniable. To pass that up because of someone who hasn't done anything is wrong.

But what if our WR is the next Amon Gordon or our CB is the next Richard Sherman (production-wise, I mean). I totally get your passion for the guy, but there's a lot of talent in this draft...he's a real good prospect, but I think you're not really looking at this with enough perspective.
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Originally posted by spizzy:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
I think the whole notion of declaring McDonald a failure after one season is ridiculous. The guy has gotten few targets, he's made some nice plays, had improved as a blocker, you don't just dump a rookie after one season because something shiny catches your idea, no matter how you word it, drafting a TE in the first round is basically dumping McDonald and giving up on him. I don't see Baalke doing that, I can see them drafting a TE, but not until much later on in the draft. You never know what will happen but compared to other positions on this team, they are very solid at TE. VD is one of the best in the NFL, McDonald is promising, Celek has been solid as a #3, unless Baalke and co is completely sold that some guy out there IS the next Gronkowski, I wouldn't expect a TE in the early rounds.

Well, the OP is correct when he says that this guy can be the next Gronk. He's that good. But I think this is the year we need a burner receiver

This is what I'm talking about! The guy IS that good! If anyone has seen him play, that's undeniable. To pass that up because of someone who hasn't done anything is wrong.

But what if our WR is the next Amon Gordon or our CB is the next Richard Sherman (production-wise, I mean). I totally get your passion for the guy, but there's a lot of talent in this draft...he's a real good prospect, but I think you're not really looking at this with enough perspective.

I like a lot of the WRs in this draft. I just happen to like the guys in the 2nd and 3rd (even 4th and 5th) rounds more than guys available in the late 1st. I like Mike Evans, but wouldn't trade up for him. Watkins would cost way too much to move up for and in contract. The Lee, Robinson, Benjamin, Cooks and Matthews group doesn't impress me. Beckham I like, but not nearly as much as ASJ. I'm a big fan of Landry, Abberaderis, Davante Adams and Martavis Bryant. Later round guys like Saunders, Hoffman and Green are interesting to me as well.

The CB group I'm a bit less excited about for some reason. The one guy that intrigues me is Roby--but again, not a first rounder.

My philosophy is to like players that I like. If I'm standing on the table calling for an ILB, then yeah, I get it, we simply can't, but to ignore someone who I think has superstar written all over him, and could be the type of mismatch nightmare that Gronk is because we drafted a kid that has yet to show anything, goes beyond my draft philosophy.
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
I like a lot of the WRs in this draft. I just happen to like the guys in the 2nd and 3rd (even 4th and 5th) rounds more than guys available in the late 1st. I like Mike Evans, but wouldn't trade up for him. Watkins would cost way too much to move up for and in contract. The Lee, Robinson, Benjamin, Cooks and Matthews group doesn't impress me. Beckham I like, but not nearly as much as ASJ. I'm a big fan of Landry, Abberaderis, Davante Adams and Martavis Bryant. Later round guys like Saunders, Hoffman and Green are interesting to me as well.

The CB group I'm a bit less excited about for some reason. The one guy that intrigues me is Roby--but again, not a first rounder.

My philosophy is to like players that I like. If I'm standing on the table calling for an ILB, then yeah, I get it, we simply can't, but to ignore someone who I think has superstar written all over him, and could be the type of mismatch nightmare that Gronk is because we drafted a kid that has yet to show anything, goes beyond my draft philosophy.

Once again, this is your opinion. I'm excited about the crop of CB's, Roby is probably one of the least impressive guys IMO. You seem to be putting much more emphasis on size and athleticism overall actual production, which is fine, but I'm totally psyched about guys like Dennard, Gilbert and Verrett, all terrific CB prospects. In the 1st round I like Lee, Robinson and a few other prospects.

We all have our own preferences, which is fine, however, I just don't see the 49ers taking another TE early, not something that I see being even a slightly possibility because there are more pressing needs overall. When this team has had needs, Baalke has gone right after them. Need OL? Davis and Iupati. Need a pass rush? Aldon Smith. Need a WR? AJ Jenkins. Need a safety? Eric Reid. Need depth at DE? Tank Carradine? Need a TE? Vance McDonald.


I don't see the need at TE whatsoever, not even a little bit. I see McDonald being a very good NFL TE and improving a lot in his 2nd season, you may not see it, which is fine once more, we agree to disagree, I just don't buy the premise that the 49ers will drop another high pick on a TE with all the other more pressing needs.
Coach Harbaugh loves tight ends, but he passed on two of his players from Stanford in Flenner and Ertz. Maybe they weren't a priority or were not worth the value of their slot. McDonald has more drops than catches, but he must be given another year. If ASJ is available he would add another dimension to the offense.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
I like a lot of the WRs in this draft. I just happen to like the guys in the 2nd and 3rd (even 4th and 5th) rounds more than guys available in the late 1st. I like Mike Evans, but wouldn't trade up for him. Watkins would cost way too much to move up for and in contract. The Lee, Robinson, Benjamin, Cooks and Matthews group doesn't impress me. Beckham I like, but not nearly as much as ASJ. I'm a big fan of Landry, Abberaderis, Davante Adams and Martavis Bryant. Later round guys like Saunders, Hoffman and Green are interesting to me as well.

The CB group I'm a bit less excited about for some reason. The one guy that intrigues me is Roby--but again, not a first rounder.

My philosophy is to like players that I like. If I'm standing on the table calling for an ILB, then yeah, I get it, we simply can't, but to ignore someone who I think has superstar written all over him, and could be the type of mismatch nightmare that Gronk is because we drafted a kid that has yet to show anything, goes beyond my draft philosophy.

Once again, this is your opinion. I'm excited about the crop of CB's, Roby is probably one of the least impressive guys IMO. You seem to be putting much more emphasis on size and athleticism overall actual production, which is fine, but I'm totally psyched about guys like Dennard, Gilbert and Verrett, all terrific CB prospects. In the 1st round I like Lee, Robinson and a few other prospects.

We all have our own preferences, which is fine, however, I just don't see the 49ers taking another TE early, not something that I see being even a slightly possibility because there are more pressing needs overall. When this team has had needs, Baalke has gone right after them. Need OL? Davis and Iupati. Need a pass rush? Aldon Smith. Need a WR? AJ Jenkins. Need a safety? Eric Reid. Need depth at DE? Tank Carradine? Need a TE? Vance McDonald.


I don't see the need at TE whatsoever, not even a little bit. I see McDonald being a very good NFL TE and improving a lot in his 2nd season, you may not see it, which is fine once more, we agree to disagree, I just don't buy the premise that the 49ers will drop another high pick on a TE with all the other more pressing needs.

Just to clarify my position, I'm not a huge HSW guy. I do look at production. The guys I don't like (Robinson, Benjamin, Matthews, Gilbert, etc.) are actually very impressive size wise. The 2 guys I mentioned (Roby, ASJ), while being impressive physically I'm liking due to film and production as well as physical attributes. Roby is very explosive, plays with a ton of aggression and might have the best production of any CB (36 passed defended, 4 TDs, 8 ints, as well as other FF, sacks, TFL, etc) over his career. I'm not sure what else I like so much about him, but he constantly jumps out to me as the most aggressive guy on the field. With ASJ it's not hard to tell what I like. Anyone who has watched a game knows. The guy can play. Dennard I like too, but I don't see us having a shot at him. He's a top 10, or at worst 15 guy. Gilbert is another guy with no ball skills to me. Big and fast, but not impressive trying to make a play on the ball. Verrett is good, but I'll need to go back and re-watch. Something rubbed me the wrong way about him. Possibly being beaten by bigger WRs. I'll have to check my notes.
I have one problem with drafting ASJ, when I hear the name Jenkins my head and neck go into an involuntary twitch.
Not sure where all the deep love for ASJenkins came from. I followed the Pac 12 real close and I can say that Jenkins is good, but not impressively good enough to be a 1st round pick anyway. He has great size but he does not have elite hands like you say, he had his share of dropped balls and tend to stop running his routes when he knows he's covered instead of trying to fight to create separation.

It doesn't make any sense drafting another TE high while we have more important holes to fill in other positions like at CB, SS, or WR. Vance McDonald is still yound and still developing. Vernon Davis didn't have the best hands coming into the league either. McDonald will be fine once the game start slowing down to him.