There are 64 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

Instant improvement to 49ers Offense: Austin Seferian-Jenkins

Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
This is where we disagree I suppose: need vs. talent.

I agree that you address needs, and in my mock that I've been working on, I would like to take 2-3 WRs. I don't see anyone in the 1st that I love (except maybe Adams from Fresno), but I see some tremendous players later in the draft (Abberaderis is a terrific football player and can be available with the 3rd round pick we got from TN). Having said that, I'll repeat: I don't want ASJ because we need a TE... I want ASJ because he's got superstar potential and can be a game-changer for us especially in the red zone. He's an elite blocker, has unreal size and the best pair of hands I've seen in a long time. McDonald has as much chance of turning into ASJ as Quinton Patton has of turning into Sammy Watkins. Not saying either can't happen, but it's not how I predict things going. So I look at it the same way. To say you expect McDonald to improve by a lot, yet not having that same confidence in Patton seems contradictory to me.

How I see positions of need:

1) Kicker (this is basic. Dawson is in his contract year. If he re-signs then this isn't a need obviously. Kind of a default one until he does)
2) WR
3) CB
4) DE (Smith is getting older, McDonald is good not great, and until we see production out of Carredine and Dial it's too early to call the position filled)
5) PR/KR (this is quickly fading. Really like what LMJ has been doing. Keep it up a few more games and this will fall to the bottom of the list)
6) S (kind of contradicting myself with FAs here, but I really like Whitner and see no reason why he wouldn't be retained)
7) QB (backup, no statement about CK here, just observing the trend in the NFL this year. Teams with decent backups stayed in playoff races till late)
8) FB (Miller's health is the only reason for this. Need an emergency option if his recovery is slower than expected)
9) TE (let McDonald prove himself before we rest on the position)
10) NT - don't see as a need at all unless an elite prospect is available late (not a high probability of that)
11) ILB - don't see as a need at all
12) OLB - don't see as a need at all

I also don't see needs as position specific, but rather as far as what guys can do. And to me, the biggest receiving need is having a big guy that can go up for the ball


McDonald is a big guy who can go up for the ball, as is VD. If they add a WR or two in the draft, someone like a Moncrief, that's potentially another big guy that can go up for the ball. As far as Patton, I love his potential but the team can't survive with just 2 WR's. Baldwin in all likeliness isn't going to be back, if Boldin doesn't come back, you have 2 WR's on the roster, 4 TE's....and you want to draft ANOTHER TE? I can't support that, sorry.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Jan 7, 2014 at 3:43 PM ]
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
This is where we disagree I suppose: need vs. talent.

I agree that you address needs, and in my mock that I've been working on, I would like to take 2-3 WRs. I don't see anyone in the 1st that I love (except maybe Adams from Fresno), but I see some tremendous players later in the draft (Abberaderis is a terrific football player and can be available with the 3rd round pick we got from TN). Having said that, I'll repeat: I don't want ASJ because we need a TE... I want ASJ because he's got superstar potential and can be a game-changer for us especially in the red zone. He's an elite blocker, has unreal size and the best pair of hands I've seen in a long time. McDonald has as much chance of turning into ASJ as Quinton Patton has of turning into Sammy Watkins. Not saying either can't happen, but it's not how I predict things going. So I look at it the same way. To say you expect McDonald to improve by a lot, yet not having that same confidence in Patton seems contradictory to me.

How I see positions of need:

1) Kicker (this is basic. Dawson is in his contract year. If he re-signs then this isn't a need obviously. Kind of a default one until he does)
2) WR
3) CB
4) DE (Smith is getting older, McDonald is good not great, and until we see production out of Carredine and Dial it's too early to call the position filled)
5) PR/KR (this is quickly fading. Really like what LMJ has been doing. Keep it up a few more games and this will fall to the bottom of the list)
6) S (kind of contradicting myself with FAs here, but I really like Whitner and see no reason why he wouldn't be retained)
7) QB (backup, no statement about CK here, just observing the trend in the NFL this year. Teams with decent backups stayed in playoff races till late)
8) FB (Miller's health is the only reason for this. Need an emergency option if his recovery is slower than expected)
9) TE (let McDonald prove himself before we rest on the position)
10) NT - don't see as a need at all unless an elite prospect is available late (not a high probability of that)
11) ILB - don't see as a need at all
12) OLB - don't see as a need at all

I also don't see needs as position specific, but rather as far as what guys can do. And to me, the biggest receiving need is having a big guy that can go up for the ball


McDonald is a big guy who can go up for the ball, as is VD. If they add a WR or two in the draft, someone like a Moncrief, that's potentially another big guy that can go up for the ball. As far as Patton, I love his potential but the team can't survive with just 2 WR's. Baldwin in all likeliness isn't going to be back, if Boldin doesn't come back, you have 2 WR's on the roster, 4 TE's....and you want to draft ANOTHER TE? I can't support that, sorry.

We have 2 WRs and 4 TEs? come on dude, you're going to suggest that we can't draft a position because we have Derek Carrier and Garret Celek? These are off-the-street guys. If that's how you're looking at it, then we're stacked at WR with Chuck Jacobs, Baldwin, Crabtree, Patton and Brandon Carswell. You draft to upgrade positions, not only to fill literal holes in the roster.

Also, if you're going to defend McDonald because of his improved blocking fine, but please, for the sake of reality, don't suggest that he's our solution to having a big red zone target. He simply doesn't have the hands. Baldwin is also a big guy. So? ASJ isn't JUST big. He's good. Very very good.
[ Edited by RollinWith21n52 on Jan 7, 2014 at 4:00 PM ]
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
We have 2 WRs and 4 TEs? come on dude, you're going to suggest that we can't draft a position because we have Derek Carrier and Garret Celek? These are off-the-street guys. If that's how you're looking at it, then we're stacked at WR with Chuck Jacobs, Baldwin, Crabtree, Patton and Brandon Carswell. You draft to upgrade positions, not only to fill literal holes in the roster.

Also, if you're going to defend McDonald because of his improved blocking fine, but please, for the sake of reality, don't suggest that he's our solution to having a big red zone target. He simply doesn't have the hands. Baldwin is also a big guy. So? ASJ isn't JUST big. He's good. Very very good.

I love how you make generalizations about a player in such a short time. VD wasn't a great receiver his rookie season as well, at leas they kept feeding him the ball, McDonald gets 1 or 2 targets a game if he's lucky and that's enough for you to write him off. Wow.
  • kem99
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 585
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
While everyone is looking for WR help, I'm focusing on what we really struggle with: Red Zone TDs. ASJ is the best RZ target I've seen in this draft yet. Possessing absurd size (bigger than Gronk, and about 30 lbs shy of being a legitimate tackle), the best hands in this draft and elite blocking ability, ASJ would be the perfect target in the passing game when inside the 20, as well as a perfect blocker if we choose to run the ball. He brings a completely different set of skills to the position than Vernon, and he could allow Davis to run even more vertical routes, by taking over some of the blocking duties, and threatening the middle of the field.

We also play mostly out of 2-WR, 2-TE formations, and it's not because our #2 TE (McDonald) is superior to our #3 WR (Patton). If we keep Boldin, it's likely that ASJ would get more playing time than a similarly talented WR who we would draft.

http://draftbreakdown.com/players/austin-seferian-jenkins/
You're making a huge assumption...that ASJ would make an instant impact...As I recall, at the time he was drafted, many thought McDonald would be particularly helpful in the RZ and, if anything, his blocking would need improvement. Unfortunately, he has not contributed as hoped in the passing game but has improved his blocking as the year has progressed. It is also clear that Kaep needs to have a rapport/be comfortable with his receivers in order for them to be really involved in the passing game. He has that with his veterans -- Crabtree, Davis, Boldin and to some extent Miller (before his injury) -- but not so much with the new/younger players -- Patton, McDonald, Baldwin, Williams (before he was cut), Jenkins (before he was traded). Given that history, it is likely unrealistic to assume that ASJ, playing as the 2nd or 3rd TE, would contribute immediately in the passing game, especially considering that the 49ers run the ball more than they throw it. By the way, this same history should be a concern with regard to drafting a WR in the first round as well.

The biggest leap a player makes is often in between their rookie and second year. McDonald is going to be fine and likely a more featured weapon in the passing game next year.
I definitely get RollinWith's take on this one. We need to draft a receiver with great hands, period, because that's what someone like Kap requires. Vernon often runs routes like a wideout and ends up our defacto deep threat. With Boldin's size and his crossing routes, he ends up acting like a TE sometimes. In the end, we need to draft someone who can catch the football be that at WR or TE. We need someone with a huge catch radius who can handle Kap's fastballs.

To limit yourself to WR when you're considering this need is short-sighted. You draft the best catcher of the football, be that WR or TE who falls to us, or the one we can easily trade up for without giving up too much in the process. Are people saying that if Ebron fell that we'd pass on him? No chance. The only way that happens is if one of the premiere WR talents also fell that far.

Personally, I love McDonald. I think that, just like our prior joker TE, he will eventually develop and thrive. However, he's not there yet, and there's no guarantee that he'll be there next year either. There's also no guarantee yet that we can resign Boldin, nor that Vernon and Vance both stay healthy next year. With as many high end draft picks as we have this year, we need to be drafting talent, period.

Imagine if NE doesn't follow this board's advice when it comes to TE's? Perhaps they have a better replacement for losses and injuries this year.

All that said, I still want a 1st round CB first if the right one falls. I could even see the Niners drafting a C if they fall in love with the right one in the first round. Considering the last couple drafts, I'm guessing it will be someone we don't expect.
Originally posted by kem99:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
While everyone is looking for WR help, I'm focusing on what we really struggle with: Red Zone TDs. ASJ is the best RZ target I've seen in this draft yet. Possessing absurd size (bigger than Gronk, and about 30 lbs shy of being a legitimate tackle), the best hands in this draft and elite blocking ability, ASJ would be the perfect target in the passing game when inside the 20, as well as a perfect blocker if we choose to run the ball. He brings a completely different set of skills to the position than Vernon, and he could allow Davis to run even more vertical routes, by taking over some of the blocking duties, and threatening the middle of the field.

We also play mostly out of 2-WR, 2-TE formations, and it's not because our #2 TE (McDonald) is superior to our #3 WR (Patton). If we keep Boldin, it's likely that ASJ would get more playing time than a similarly talented WR who we would draft.

http://draftbreakdown.com/players/austin-seferian-jenkins/
You're making a huge assumption...that ASJ would make an instant impact...As I recall, at the time he was drafted, many thought McDonald would be particularly helpful in the RZ and, if anything, his blocking would need improvement. Unfortunately, he has not contributed as hoped in the passing game but has improved his blocking as the year has progressed. It is also clear that Kaep needs to have a rapport/be comfortable with his receivers in order for them to be really involved in the passing game. He has that with his veterans -- Crabtree, Davis, Boldin and to some extent Miller (before his injury) -- but not so much with the new/younger players -- Patton, McDonald, Baldwin, Williams (before he was cut), Jenkins (before he was traded). Given that history, it is likely unrealistic to assume that ASJ, playing as the 2nd or 3rd TE, would contribute immediately in the passing game, especially considering that the 49ers run the ball more than they throw it. By the way, this same history should be a concern with regard to drafting a WR in the first round as well.

The biggest leap a player makes is often in between their rookie and second year. McDonald is going to be fine and likely a more featured weapon in the passing game next year.

It's an assumption, sure, but i also don't see it as veteran versus new receiver. The guys Kaep doesn't throw to aren't very good. Jenkins is awful, Baldwin has zero ball skills and McDonald has dropped more than his fair share of passes. Now I'm not saying he can't improve, but as of now McDonald just doesn't have good hands. He didn't have good hands coming out of college and that's why certain teams didn't want to draft him. The Seahawks didn't want him because his hands weren't good enough. I don't know what his blocking rep was, but he was raw as a receiver.

Anyone you draft, you draft with the ASSUMPTION that they will help your team. Your assumption can always be wrong. Doesn't have the strength to battle OTs, isn't patient enough as a runner, doesn't catch on to your offense, doesn't match up well with bigger WRs, etc. Every position you assume they'll help, and hope you're right.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
We have 2 WRs and 4 TEs? come on dude, you're going to suggest that we can't draft a position because we have Derek Carrier and Garret Celek? These are off-the-street guys. If that's how you're looking at it, then we're stacked at WR with Chuck Jacobs, Baldwin, Crabtree, Patton and Brandon Carswell. You draft to upgrade positions, not only to fill literal holes in the roster.

Also, if you're going to defend McDonald because of his improved blocking fine, but please, for the sake of reality, don't suggest that he's our solution to having a big red zone target. He simply doesn't have the hands. Baldwin is also a big guy. So? ASJ isn't JUST big. He's good. Very very good.

I love how you make generalizations about a player in such a short time. VD wasn't a great receiver his rookie season as well, at leas they kept feeding him the ball, McDonald gets 1 or 2 targets a game if he's lucky and that's enough for you to write him off. Wow.

I made a generalization? What was that generalization? That he doesn't have good hands? That's an observation. That was also what NFL teams thought of him coming out of college. The Seahawks, for example, didn't want him because of his hands. Their exact words were "...but doesn't have the hands." I would love for him to become a viable RZ threat. I'd love if he becomes the greatest TE in history and shuts me up, but right now, based on what I've seen, I can't tell you that I have any reason to believe that he will develop into that.

and you're right, VD wasn't a great receiver. BUT, he ran a 4.38 40 and is arguably the most physically gifted TE in history of the league. He was drafted 7th overall. He's also 1 example of improving your hands. There are countless more that don't improve. Should we assume any bad player will become good because Vernon did?
Originally posted by FearItself:
I definitely get RollinWith's take on this one. We need to draft a receiver with great hands, period, because that's what someone like Kap requires. Vernon often runs routes like a wideout and ends up our defacto deep threat. With Boldin's size and his crossing routes, he ends up acting like a TE sometimes. In the end, we need to draft someone who can catch the football be that at WR or TE. We need someone with a huge catch radius who can handle Kap's fastballs.

To limit yourself to WR when you're considering this need is short-sighted. You draft the best catcher of the football, be that WR or TE who falls to us, or the one we can easily trade up for without giving up too much in the process. Are people saying that if Ebron fell that we'd pass on him? No chance. The only way that happens is if one of the premiere WR talents also fell that far.

Personally, I love McDonald. I think that, just like our prior joker TE, he will eventually develop and thrive. However, he's not there yet, and there's no guarantee that he'll be there next year either. There's also no guarantee yet that we can resign Boldin, nor that Vernon and Vance both stay healthy next year. With as many high end draft picks as we have this year, we need to be drafting talent, period.

Imagine if NE doesn't follow this board's advice when it comes to TE's? Perhaps they have a better replacement for losses and injuries this year.

All that said, I still want a 1st round CB first if the right one falls. I could even see the Niners drafting a C if they fall in love with the right one in the first round. Considering the last couple drafts, I'm guessing it will be someone we don't expect.

This offense isn't going to play 3 TE's regularly, you draft another TE, you basically screw up McDonald's development, its completely ridiculous. Yes, you need good receivers, that is why you go out and get an actual....receiver, you know, where this team is potentially going to be massively lacking. Starting in 2015, the 49ers will still have VD and McDonald but the potential of no Boldin and no Crabtree.


Its asinine to propose that TE is somehow a bigger need than WR. This team has been struggling at WR for a long time, TE has never been an issue. In the 2011 NFC Championship Game, they had Crabtree and Brett Swain. Its beyond time they fixed that situation for good. If that means you bring a reliable route runner and a terrific receiver in Allen Robinson or an explosive deep threat such as Odell Beckham, then you go ahead and do that and you take care of that deficiency. Its not just about now, but for the future. WR's take time to develop and essentially, if the 49ers lose Boldin and Crabtree, they are beyond screwed, so take care of the problem now. Stacking TE's that you won't even play is absurd.
Originally posted by FearItself:
I definitely get RollinWith's take on this one. We need to draft a receiver with great hands, period, because that's what someone like Kap requires. Vernon often runs routes like a wideout and ends up our defacto deep threat. With Boldin's size and his crossing routes, he ends up acting like a TE sometimes. In the end, we need to draft someone who can catch the football be that at WR or TE. We need someone with a huge catch radius who can handle Kap's fastballs.

To limit yourself to WR when you're considering this need is short-sighted. You draft the best catcher of the football, be that WR or TE who falls to us, or the one we can easily trade up for without giving up too much in the process. Are people saying that if Ebron fell that we'd pass on him? No chance. The only way that happens is if one of the premiere WR talents also fell that far.

Personally, I love McDonald. I think that, just like our prior joker TE, he will eventually develop and thrive. However, he's not there yet, and there's no guarantee that he'll be there next year either. There's also no guarantee yet that we can resign Boldin, nor that Vernon and Vance both stay healthy next year. With as many high end draft picks as we have this year, we need to be drafting talent, period.

Imagine if NE doesn't follow this board's advice when it comes to TE's? Perhaps they have a better replacement for losses and injuries this year.

All that said, I still want a 1st round CB first if the right one falls. I could even see the Niners drafting a C if they fall in love with the right one in the first round. Considering the last couple drafts, I'm guessing it will be someone we don't expect.

Thank you for articulating my thoughts exactly. You're saying it better than I did. We need a pass catcher with great hands, and it's irrelevant if we call that person a TE or a WR, at the end of the day they'll do the same thing: try to catch Kaep's fastball.
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
I made a generalization? What was that generalization? That he doesn't have good hands? That's an observation. That was also what NFL teams thought of him coming out of college. The Seahawks, for example, didn't want him because of his hands. Their exact words were "...but doesn't have the hands." I would love for him to become a viable RZ threat. I'd love if he becomes the greatest TE in history and shuts me up, but right now, based on what I've seen, I can't tell you that I have any reason to believe that he will develop into that.

and you're right, VD wasn't a great receiver. BUT, he ran a 4.38 40 and is arguably the most physically gifted TE in history of the league. He was drafted 7th overall. He's also 1 example of improving your hands. There are countless more that don't improve. Should we assume any bad player will become good because Vernon did?

The problem is you're assuming that McDonald is a bad player because of your own bias, but evidence suggests that nobody else shares that point of view. I haven't seen anything coming out of the organization that suggests they are displeased with McDonald. He's developing as a young player should. What your proposing is simply not going to happen, they won't spend a 1st rounder on a TE a season after dropping a 2nd on McDonald and essentially burying him or the 1st round pick as a result of it, not when they have many more pressing needs at other positions. Whitner might be gone, now you have a hole at SS. Brown will leave, you now need to add a CB, Boldin might walk, and even if he doesn't, WR is still a big need. Goodwin is likely gone, if they don't have faith in Kilgore, they're in the market for a center. Looking at a TE when you have 3 perfectly suitable TE's is absurd.


You may think McDonald sucks, there's no evidence that the people who matter do. They went out and drafted him knowing he was raw, knowing he played against lesser competition and knowing that he needed to develop as a blocker and that it would take time to do so. Somehow I don't think that Baalke's mindset was "this guy has 1 season to be an All Pro or else." McDonald will be the 49ers #2 TE next season, simple as that. They've invested a lot in him and he's made enough progress that they are set at TE, at least for the short term.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Jan 7, 2014 at 5:44 PM ]
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by FearItself:
I definitely get RollinWith's take on this one. We need to draft a receiver with great hands, period, because that's what someone like Kap requires. Vernon often runs routes like a wideout and ends up our defacto deep threat. With Boldin's size and his crossing routes, he ends up acting like a TE sometimes. In the end, we need to draft someone who can catch the football be that at WR or TE. We need someone with a huge catch radius who can handle Kap's fastballs.

To limit yourself to WR when you're considering this need is short-sighted. You draft the best catcher of the football, be that WR or TE who falls to us, or the one we can easily trade up for without giving up too much in the process. Are people saying that if Ebron fell that we'd pass on him? No chance. The only way that happens is if one of the premiere WR talents also fell that far.

Personally, I love McDonald. I think that, just like our prior joker TE, he will eventually develop and thrive. However, he's not there yet, and there's no guarantee that he'll be there next year either. There's also no guarantee yet that we can resign Boldin, nor that Vernon and Vance both stay healthy next year. With as many high end draft picks as we have this year, we need to be drafting talent, period.

Imagine if NE doesn't follow this board's advice when it comes to TE's? Perhaps they have a better replacement for losses and injuries this year.

All that said, I still want a 1st round CB first if the right one falls. I could even see the Niners drafting a C if they fall in love with the right one in the first round. Considering the last couple drafts, I'm guessing it will be someone we don't expect.

This offense isn't going to play 3 TE's regularly, you draft another TE, you basically screw up McDonald's development, its completely ridiculous. Yes, you need good receivers, that is why you go out and get an actual....receiver, you know, where this team is potentially going to be massively lacking. Starting in 2015, the 49ers will still have VD and McDonald but the potential of no Boldin and no Crabtree.


Its asinine to propose that TE is somehow a bigger need than WR. This team has been struggling at WR for a long time, TE has never been an issue. In the 2011 NFC Championship Game, they had Crabtree and Brett Swain. Its beyond time they fixed that situation for good. If that means you bring a reliable route runner and a terrific receiver in Allen Robinson or an explosive deep threat such as Odell Beckham, then you go ahead and do that and you take care of that deficiency. Its not just about now, but for the future. WR's take time to develop and essentially, if the 49ers lose Boldin and Crabtree, they are beyond screwed, so take care of the problem now. Stacking TE's that you won't even play is absurd.

Who suggested that TE is a bigger need than a WR? I've agreed that WR is a huge need. Let me ask you this: if hypothetically speaking, Jimmy Grahm was in this draft, and you knew exactly how good he will be, and he's available to us at our pick, do you take him or Allen Robinson? Doesn't change that WR is still a bigger need, but unless you've yet to watch a football game in your life, my guess is that you take Grahm, regardless of need. You have 2 2nd round picks, as many as 3 rds, and a handful of other picks to fix the WR issue. And you should absolutely do that, but YOU TAKE THE BEST PLAYER (or else you end up with AJ Jenkins). To me, in our hypothetical situation it's Grahm, and in the real life situation it's ASJ. Watching ASJ and Robinson play, I can't see how someone could take Robinson over ASJ. I just don't see that.
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Who suggested that TE is a bigger need than a WR? I've agreed that WR is a huge need. Let me ask you this: if hypothetically speaking, Jimmy Grahm was in this draft, and you knew exactly how good he will be, and he's available to us at our pick, do you take him or Allen Robinson? Doesn't change that WR is still a bigger need, but unless you've yet to watch a football game in your life, my guess is that you take Grahm, regardless of need. You have 2 2nd round picks, as many as 3 rds, and a handful of other picks to fix the WR issue. And you should absolutely do that, but YOU TAKE THE BEST PLAYER (or else you end up with AJ Jenkins). To me, in our hypothetical situation it's Grahm, and in the real life situation it's ASJ. Watching ASJ and Robinson play, I can't see how someone could take Robinson over ASJ. I just don't see that.

Here's where your assumption is false. Seferian-Jenkins could be trash in the NFL, a huge bust. You're talking about him like he's a 100% guaranteed thing when NOBODY is guaranteed. Seferian Jenkins is not Jimmy Graham, he's just another college prospect. He's not even the top TE prospect for this draft.

We're not talking about Jimmy Graham, we're talking about the choice between two unproven prospects, and just because you like one guy better doesn't mean he's any less likely to be a bust. So from where I'm standing, yes, I take Allen Robinson over Seferian-Jenkins and don't think twice about it. WR is a major need, TE is not. Both are talented players, only one fills a need, so I go with that guy.


Robinson also had an immensely productive season while Seferian-Jenkins had a so-so year yet you're talking about him like he's the love child of Tony Gonzalez and Rob Gronkowski. He could be a pretty good NFL TE, he could be an absolute bust, who knows, but the 49ers right now have a need for WR's, not TE's.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Jan 7, 2014 at 5:55 PM ]
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Who suggested that TE is a bigger need than a WR? I've agreed that WR is a huge need. Let me ask you this: if hypothetically speaking, Jimmy Grahm was in this draft, and you knew exactly how good he will be, and he's available to us at our pick, do you take him or Allen Robinson? Doesn't change that WR is still a bigger need, but unless you've yet to watch a football game in your life, my guess is that you take Grahm, regardless of need. You have 2 2nd round picks, as many as 3 rds, and a handful of other picks to fix the WR issue. And you should absolutely do that, but YOU TAKE THE BEST PLAYER (or else you end up with AJ Jenkins). To me, in our hypothetical situation it's Grahm, and in the real life situation it's ASJ. Watching ASJ and Robinson play, I can't see how someone could take Robinson over ASJ. I just don't see that.

Here's where your assumption is false. Seferian-Jenkins could be trash in the NFL, a huge bust. You're talking about him like he's a 100% guaranteed thing when NOBODY is guaranteed. Seferian Jenkins is not Jimmy Graham, he's just another college prospect. He's not even the top TE prospect for this draft.

We're not talking about Jimmy Graham, we're talking about the choice between two unproven prospects, and just because you like one guy better doesn't mean he's any less likely to be a bust. So from where I'm standing, yes, I take Allen Robinson over Seferian-Jenkins and don't think twice about it. WR is a major need, TE is not. Both are talented players, only one fills a need, so I go with that guy.


Robinson also had an immensely productive season while Seferian-Jenkins had a so-so year let you're talking about him like he's the love child of Tony Gonzalez and Rob Gronkowski. He could be a pretty good NFL TE, he could be an absolute bust, who knows, but the 49ers right now have a need for WR's, not TE's.

Clearly my own observation is going to drive my opinion about the probability that 1 will succeed and the other will not. I have not seen anything from Robinson that tells me he will be successful in the NFL, I've seen plenty from ASJ to suggest he will. I'll admit that this is not fact, but purely my own observation, and that's why I made this thread, because based on my observation, and what I see, 1 is much more likely to be a star than the other.

The Jimmy Grahm example was to demonstrate that it's not ALL about position. That a TE, which you say we don't need, would actually be HUGE for our team if he was extremely good. My estimate for ASJ is that he'll be extremely good. Of course that could not come true, thus the nature of the draft.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
I made a generalization? What was that generalization? That he doesn't have good hands? That's an observation. That was also what NFL teams thought of him coming out of college. The Seahawks, for example, didn't want him because of his hands. Their exact words were "...but doesn't have the hands." I would love for him to become a viable RZ threat. I'd love if he becomes the greatest TE in history and shuts me up, but right now, based on what I've seen, I can't tell you that I have any reason to believe that he will develop into that.

and you're right, VD wasn't a great receiver. BUT, he ran a 4.38 40 and is arguably the most physically gifted TE in history of the league. He was drafted 7th overall. He's also 1 example of improving your hands. There are countless more that don't improve. Should we assume any bad player will become good because Vernon did?

The problem is you're assuming that McDonald is a bad player because of your own bias, but evidence suggests that nobody else shares that point of view. I haven't seen anything coming out of the organization that suggests they are displeased with McDonald. He's developing as a young player should. What your proposing is simply not going to happen, they won't spend a 1st rounder on a TE a season after dropping a 2nd on McDonald and essentially burying him or the 1st round pick as a result of it, not when they have many more pressing needs at other positions. Whitner might be gone, now you have a hole at SS. Brown will leave, you now need to add a CB, Boldin might walk, and even if he doesn't, WR is still a big need. Goodwin is likely gone, if they don't have faith in Kilgore, they're in the market for a center. Looking at a TE when you have 3 perfectly suitable TE's is absurd.


You may think McDonald sucks, there's no evidence that the people who matter do. They went out and drafted him knowing he was raw, knowing he played against lesser competition and knowing that he needed to develop as a blocker and that it would take time to do so. Somehow I don't think that Baalke's mindset was "this guy has 1 season to be an All Pro or else." McDonald will be the 49ers #2 TE next season, simple as that. They've invested a lot in him and he's made enough progress that they are set at TE, at least for the short term.

My bias? Lol, it's not bias, I've watched and followed every single player on this team for years. Only bias I have is thinking niner players are better than they are, not vise-versa.
  • kem99
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 585
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
It's an assumption, sure, but i also don't see it as veteran versus new receiver. The guys Kaep doesn't throw to aren't very good. Jenkins is awful, Baldwin has zero ball skills and McDonald has dropped more than his fair share of passes. Now I'm not saying he can't improve, but as of now McDonald just doesn't have good hands. He didn't have good hands coming out of college and that's why certain teams didn't want to draft him. The Seahawks didn't want him because his hands weren't good enough. I don't know what his blocking rep was, but he was raw as a receiver.

Anyone you draft, you draft with the ASSUMPTION that they will help your team. Your assumption can always be wrong. Doesn't have the strength to battle OTs, isn't patient enough as a runner, doesn't catch on to your offense, doesn't match up well with bigger WRs, etc. Every position you assume they'll help, and hope you're right.
McDonald played mostly in the slot at Rice and was their leading or 2nd leading receiver from his 2nd year on.

It was noted on the day the 49ers drafted him that the Seahawks wanted him but, after the 49ers took him, settled for the "blocking TE" at Rice, Wilson.

And, a reminder, Davis didn't have good hands either and dropped a lot of balls in his first few years as well. There are always the outlier exceptions (AJ Jenkins) but teams that give up on their high draft picks too early are not well run organizations.

And, in terms of being a "big target" in the red zone...according to your draft site link, ASJ is 6'6", 266 lbs; according to NFL.com, McDonald is 6'4", 267 lbs. They're both big targets.

We can go back and forth on this forever but the bottom line is:

1. The 49ers are not going to invest a 1st round pick in a TE. Even with the 49ers offense, it makes no sense to have a roster with 3 TE's where 2 are first round picks and 1 is a second round pick.

2. As we know, the 49ers have a number of big contract extensions to take care of in the near future. If you want to keep, Kaep, Aldon, Crabtree, Iupati, Boldin, etc., you are going to need draft picks that are cheaper to replace more older, more expensive players. That's how the NFL works and using a high draft pick on another TE after drafting McDonald last year is a luxury the 49ers will no longer be able to afford as they continue to manage the salary cap.

3. You can say the 49ers could make McDonald the 3rd TE but it is more likely they would have to cut or trade him for pennies on the dollar. You don't develop 2nd round picks as 3rd TE's and they didn't draft McDonald to be a 3rd TE. Carrier, Celek and perhaps a late round draft pick will compete for the 3rd TE spot and push McDonald