There are 119 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

Instant improvement to 49ers Offense: Austin Seferian-Jenkins

While everyone is looking for WR help, I'm focusing on what we really struggle with: Red Zone TDs. ASJ is the best RZ target I've seen in this draft yet. Possessing absurd size (bigger than Gronk, and about 30 lbs shy of being a legitimate tackle), the best hands in this draft and elite blocking ability, ASJ would be the perfect target in the passing game when inside the 20, as well as a perfect blocker if we choose to run the ball. He brings a completely different set of skills to the position than Vernon, and he could allow Davis to run even more vertical routes, by taking over some of the blocking duties, and threatening the middle of the field.

We also play mostly out of 2-WR, 2-TE formations, and it's not because our #2 TE (McDonald) is superior to our #3 WR (Patton). If we keep Boldin, it's likely that ASJ would get more playing time than a similarly talented WR who we would draft.

http://draftbreakdown.com/players/austin-seferian-jenkins/
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
While everyone is looking for WR help, I'm focusing on what we really struggle with: Red Zone TDs. ASJ is the best RZ target I've seen in this draft yet. Possessing absurd size (bigger than Gronk, and about 30 lbs shy of being a legitimate tackle), the best hands in this draft and elite blocking ability, ASJ would be the perfect target in the passing game when inside the 20, as well as a perfect blocker if we choose to run the ball. He brings a completely different set of skills to the position than Vernon, and he could allow Davis to run even more vertical routes, by taking over some of the blocking duties, and threatening the middle of the field.

We also play mostly out of 2-WR, 2-TE formations, and it's not because our #2 TE (McDonald) is superior to our #3 WR (Patton). If we keep Boldin, it's likely that ASJ would get more playing time than a similarly talented WR who we would draft.

http://draftbreakdown.com/players/austin-seferian-jenkins/

I don't buy this at all. I think the problem is that they've lacked talent at WR for a long time so they've relied more on TE's and FB's.

This would essentially be giving up on McDonald after one season, however you want to define it, that is what you're doing. IMO, they need more of a deep threat than anything else, the issues with the redzone are more playcalling than personnel oriented and even then, they're still in the middle of the pack in the NFL.



So no, I don't see this team dropping yet another early pick on a TE when McDonald is still developing.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Jan 7, 2014 at 2:32 PM ]
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
While everyone is looking for WR help, I'm focusing on what we really struggle with: Red Zone TDs. ASJ is the best RZ target I've seen in this draft yet. Possessing absurd size (bigger than Gronk, and about 30 lbs shy of being a legitimate tackle), the best hands in this draft and elite blocking ability, ASJ would be the perfect target in the passing game when inside the 20, as well as a perfect blocker if we choose to run the ball. He brings a completely different set of skills to the position than Vernon, and he could allow Davis to run even more vertical routes, by taking over some of the blocking duties, and threatening the middle of the field.

We also play mostly out of 2-WR, 2-TE formations, and it's not because our #2 TE (McDonald) is superior to our #3 WR (Patton). If we keep Boldin, it's likely that ASJ would get more playing time than a similarly talented WR who we would draft.

http://draftbreakdown.com/players/austin-seferian-jenkins/

I don't buy this at all. I think the problem is that they've lacked talent at WR for a long time so they've relied more on TE's and FB's.

This would essentially be giving up on McDonald after one season, however you want to define it, that is what you're doing. IMO, they need more of a deep threat than anything else, the issues with the redzone are more playcalling than personnel oriented and even then, they're still in the middle of the pack in the NFL.



So no, I don't see this team dropping yet another early pick on a TE when McDonald is still developing.

McDonald has been absolutely awful. I see no problem in giving up on a bad pick so quickly. Baalke doesn't see the issue with that either (see: Taylor Mays, AJ Jenkins). Every team will have bad picks early, and sitting on them, hoping they develop and continuing with a hole at the position doesn't help anyone. We also use 3 TEs quite a bit, and McDonald can continue to develop as the #3. I'm also not saying we don't take a receiver, just that no receiver in this class (other than guys we have to trade way up for), will be as instantly impactfull as ASJ. This is a DEEP WR draft, and some excellent options will be available in rounds 2-5.
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
McDonald has been absolutely awful. I see no problem in giving up on a bad pick so quickly. Baalke doesn't see the issue with that either (see: Taylor Mays, AJ Jenkins). Every team will have bad picks early, and sitting on them, hoping they develop and continuing with a hole at the position doesn't help anyone. We also use 3 TEs quite a bit, and McDonald can continue to develop as the #3. I'm also not saying we don't take a receiver, just that no receiver in this class (other than guys we have to trade way up for), will be as instantly impactfull as ASJ. This is a DEEP WR draft, and some excellent options will be available in rounds 2-5.

I don't buy this either. I think he's done fine, your mindset is absolutely nuts, that you just quit on a rookie after one season. Jenkins never showed any sort of real progress, McDonald has improved significantly as a blocker over the course of the season. You can't look at a guy who gets 1 or 2 targets a game at best and make a blanket judgment on his overall performance. He's had some very good games blocking and some lousy games, he's made some nice receptions, and dropped some others, but overall he's been decent for a rookie coming from a low level of college football.

Using your same logic, San Diego should have cut bait on Ladarius Green because he struggled his rookie season and should have taken Tyler Eifert instead. Forget that Green was a highly useful, high impact performer for them this season, he's also a guy who was very raw, particularly as a blocker. He caught a couple passes his rookie season but has stepped up big time this season.



Like I said, if you're expecting the 49ers to draft another TE early, I don't recommend holding your breath. McDonald has shown improvement on the field throughout this season and he'll be incorporated into a larger part of the overall offense next season. I can see them adding a TE later in the draft, a guy like Asa Watson who can develop in the h-back role but McDonald is locked in at the #2 spot for the foreseeable future.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Jan 7, 2014 at 2:48 PM ]
I'm a big fan of ASJ, but I don't see us drafting a 1st round TE this year. 2015 maybe as Vernon moves closer to the end of his contract to pair with McDonald, but definitely not to replace him Mac.
[ Edited by GhostofFredDean74 on Jan 7, 2014 at 2:52 PM ]
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
I'm a big fan of ASJ, but I don't see us drafting a 1st round TE this year. 2015 maybe as Vernon moves closer to the end of his contract to pair with McDonald, but definitely not to replace him Mac.

This. Davis will be 32 at the end of the 2015 season I believe, no guarantee he comes back after that, especially for a guy so dependent on his athletic ability to perform. I don't see him being a Tony Gonzalez type that plays on thanks to football savvy and high skill level.
Yea letz just cut anyone N everyone that doesnt produce with in tha first 30 dayz of being drafted ...with that thinkin J.Rice would have been traded S.Young would have been traded kool Joe would have been traded ..... Great thinkin
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
McDonald has been absolutely awful. I see no problem in giving up on a bad pick so quickly. Baalke doesn't see the issue with that either (see: Taylor Mays, AJ Jenkins). Every team will have bad picks early, and sitting on them, hoping they develop and continuing with a hole at the position doesn't help anyone. We also use 3 TEs quite a bit, and McDonald can continue to develop as the #3. I'm also not saying we don't take a receiver, just that no receiver in this class (other than guys we have to trade way up for), will be as instantly impactfull as ASJ. This is a DEEP WR draft, and some excellent options will be available in rounds 2-5.

no he hasn't. has he shown the ability to be a consistent threat in the passing game? no. but that's something that can be developed and he should catch on more in his second year considering the fact that he was basically a slot receiver in college. majority of the offseason, they trained him to be more of a blocker, which he has done well. he runs routes well, but it's the hands that need work. That was the same issue with Vernon when we drafted him.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
McDonald has been absolutely awful. I see no problem in giving up on a bad pick so quickly. Baalke doesn't see the issue with that either (see: Taylor Mays, AJ Jenkins). Every team will have bad picks early, and sitting on them, hoping they develop and continuing with a hole at the position doesn't help anyone. We also use 3 TEs quite a bit, and McDonald can continue to develop as the #3. I'm also not saying we don't take a receiver, just that no receiver in this class (other than guys we have to trade way up for), will be as instantly impactfull as ASJ. This is a DEEP WR draft, and some excellent options will be available in rounds 2-5.

I don't buy this either. I think he's done fine, your mindset is absolutely nuts, that you just quit on a rookie after one season. Jenkins never showed any sort of real progress, McDonald has improved significantly as a blocker over the course of the season. You can't look at a guy who gets 1 or 2 targets a game at best and make a blanket judgment on his overall performance. He's had some very good games blocking and some lousy games, he's made some nice receptions, and dropped some others, but overall he's been decent for a rookie coming from a low level of college football.

Using your same logic, San Diego should have cut bait on Ladarius Green because he struggled his rookie season and should have taken Tyler Eifert instead. Forget that Green was a highly useful, high impact performer for them this season, he's also a guy who was very raw, particularly as a blocker. He caught a couple passes his rookie season but has stepped up big time this season.



Like I said, if you're expecting the 49ers to draft another TE early, I don't recommend holding your breath. McDonald has shown improvement on the field throughout this season and he'll be incorporated into a larger part of the overall offense next season. I can see them adding a TE later in the draft, a guy like Asa Watson who can develop in the h-back role but McDonald is locked in at the #2 spot for the foreseeable future.

A few points:

1) I don't recommend CUTTING McDonald, but I also don't think that he's done anything to dictate our draft strategy. I would love to allow him to develop. He can continue to do so, just as other #3 TEs on the team have. He'll also have the chance to compete for the #2 spot.

2) I'm not in favor of getting ASJ because I don't like McDonald and I think we need a new TE. I'm in favor of getting ASJ because he's a tremendous football player who is not even in the same universe of talent as McDonald. If, for example, we had a chance to get Sammy Watkins, I would be all for it, and it would have nothing to do with my feelings about Quinton Patton. Simply that having Patton should not change your plan to get an elite prospect. With Willis and Bowman on the team, this dictates our desire to draft an ILB, regardless of how good he is. They've earned that. McDonald has not.

3) Kind of the same as #2, but the Pats staff talked about how they let Brady drop 2 more rounds than they wanted to (had a 4th rd grade on him), because they already had a backup QB. Not sure who it was, but I'm guessing he didn't justify not drafting a player you like.

4) This also reminds me of the Willis draft where some people didn't want him because we already had pretty decent LBs in Ulbrich and Derek Smith.

5) I don't believe playcalling is the only reason for our RZ struggles. I think lacking a true big body that can go up and high-point the ball hurts.

6) While McDonald had some decent games toward the end of the year, they have been few and far between. Again, not saying throw this guy out on the street, but if you're blindly sitting by and saying that the TE2 spot is locked down for years because of a few decent blocks he's thrown in 2 or 3 games, you're setting yourself up for possible disappointment. No one is proven until they're proven. He should absolutely remain on the team, he should absolutely be allowed to develop and it's entirely possible and even quite likely that he will continue to improve, and maybe even to a point of being a great TE, but until he reaches that point, we cannot pass on elite prospects for the hope that he will become one himself.

Just curious: (1) what WR do you think would have a bigger impact for us (than ASJ) right away and (2) what do you think of ASJ? Is he someone you've watched thoroughly? If the answer to (2) is "no," I think you might change your mind once you watch some games. The guys is tremendous.
Originally posted by tatdwolf49:
Yea letz just cut anyone N everyone that doesnt produce with in tha first 30 dayz of being drafted ...with that thinkin J.Rice would have been traded S.Young would have been traded kool Joe would have been traded ..... Great thinkin

Calm down there tatdwolf and read the thread. No one is suggesting anyone gets cut. Take a breather.. ok?
Originally posted by LaMichaelJeff:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
McDonald has been absolutely awful. I see no problem in giving up on a bad pick so quickly. Baalke doesn't see the issue with that either (see: Taylor Mays, AJ Jenkins). Every team will have bad picks early, and sitting on them, hoping they develop and continuing with a hole at the position doesn't help anyone. We also use 3 TEs quite a bit, and McDonald can continue to develop as the #3. I'm also not saying we don't take a receiver, just that no receiver in this class (other than guys we have to trade way up for), will be as instantly impactfull as ASJ. This is a DEEP WR draft, and some excellent options will be available in rounds 2-5.

no he hasn't. has he shown the ability to be a consistent threat in the passing game? no. but that's something that can be developed and he should catch on more in his second year considering the fact that he was basically a slot receiver in college. majority of the offseason, they trained him to be more of a blocker, which he has done well. he runs routes well, but it's the hands that need work. That was the same issue with Vernon when we drafted him.

I want McDonald to be successful as much as anyone, but I'm also not going to go back on my statement that he's been awful this year. He's a rookie, and that's fine, and he should get plenty of chances to develop, I agree. But as it stands today, he has not played well. Please also read my other comments. i'm not suggesting cutting him, but he should not be the reason we pass up on an elite TE with game-changing ability.
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
A few points:

1) I don't recommend CUTTING McDonald, but I also don't think that he's done anything to dictate our draft strategy. I would love to allow him to develop. He can continue to do so, just as other #3 TEs on the team have. He'll also have the chance to compete for the #2 spot.

2) I'm not in favor of getting ASJ because I don't like McDonald and I think we need a new TE. I'm in favor of getting ASJ because he's a tremendous football player who is not even in the same universe of talent as McDonald. If, for example, we had a chance to get Sammy Watkins, I would be all for it, and it would have nothing to do with my feelings about Quinton Patton. Simply that having Patton should not change your plan to get an elite prospect. With Willis and Bowman on the team, this dictates our desire to draft an ILB, regardless of how good he is. They've earned that. McDonald has not.

3) Kind of the same as #2, but the Pats staff talked about how they let Brady drop 2 more rounds than they wanted to (had a 4th rd grade on him), because they already had a backup QB. Not sure who it was, but I'm guessing he didn't justify not drafting a player you like.

4) This also reminds me of the Willis draft where some people didn't want him because we already had pretty decent LBs in Ulbrich and Derek Smith.

5) I don't believe playcalling is the only reason for our RZ struggles. I think lacking a true big body that can go up and high-point the ball hurts.

6) While McDonald had some decent games toward the end of the year, they have been few and far between. Again, not saying throw this guy out on the street, but if you're blindly sitting by and saying that the TE2 spot is locked down for years because of a few decent blocks he's thrown in 2 or 3 games, you're setting yourself up for possible disappointment. No one is proven until they're proven. He should absolutely remain on the team, he should absolutely be allowed to develop and it's entirely possible and even quite likely that he will continue to improve, and maybe even to a point of being a great TE, but until he reaches that point, we cannot pass on elite prospects for the hope that he will become one himself.

Just curious: (1) what WR do you think would have a bigger impact for us (than ASJ) right away and (2) what do you think of ASJ? Is he someone you've watched thoroughly? If the answer to (2) is "no," I think you might change your mind once you watch some games. The guys is tremendous.


Regardless of how you feel about Seferian-Jenkins, the 49ers are set at TE with VD, McDonald and the potential of someone being brought in to compete with Celek. It isn't a priority in the slightest. WR is, especially if Boldin walks in the offseason. That means the 49ers are left with Crabtree and Patton as their WR's. That screams urgency. Even if Boldin is re-signed, there's no guarantee that Crabtree will be. WR depth is a must. They need to add a deep threat, they need to add another possession receiver type while at TE you'll still have VD and an improved McDonald.

At TE, the 49ers are fine. I expect major improvement from McDonald, by all accounts he's a hard worker and an intense competitor, I'd be slightly concerned if the guy was a space cadet the same way Jenkins was but from everything has been reported, he's working his ass off and he has shown real improvement out on the field. He's got a lot more work to do but he's moving in the right direction and we've seen flashes of the kind of monster he can be with the ball in his hands out in the open field.


Lastly, the dude completely trucked Richard Sherman. Just on that basis alone he has his spot locked in for the next couple of seasons.
Not sure anyone has an issue with ASJs talent or potential (both are huge)...you just seemed to be advocating giving up on McDonald which doesn't make a lot of sense. If we drafted Seferian-Jenkins, I wouldn't be upset because he's a unique talent and definitely could be a dominant TE in this league. The question becomes, would the team be willing to use a 1st rounder on him (which is what it would take) given you already have 1 pro-bowl caliber TE and a young/developing 2nd rounder AND given all the other roster holes that need to be filled.

To me, that's what it comes down too. Clearly you think we should; I don't think we will.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
A few points:

1) I don't recommend CUTTING McDonald, but I also don't think that he's done anything to dictate our draft strategy. I would love to allow him to develop. He can continue to do so, just as other #3 TEs on the team have. He'll also have the chance to compete for the #2 spot.

2) I'm not in favor of getting ASJ because I don't like McDonald and I think we need a new TE. I'm in favor of getting ASJ because he's a tremendous football player who is not even in the same universe of talent as McDonald. If, for example, we had a chance to get Sammy Watkins, I would be all for it, and it would have nothing to do with my feelings about Quinton Patton. Simply that having Patton should not change your plan to get an elite prospect. With Willis and Bowman on the team, this dictates our desire to draft an ILB, regardless of how good he is. They've earned that. McDonald has not.

3) Kind of the same as #2, but the Pats staff talked about how they let Brady drop 2 more rounds than they wanted to (had a 4th rd grade on him), because they already had a backup QB. Not sure who it was, but I'm guessing he didn't justify not drafting a player you like.

4) This also reminds me of the Willis draft where some people didn't want him because we already had pretty decent LBs in Ulbrich and Derek Smith.

5) I don't believe playcalling is the only reason for our RZ struggles. I think lacking a true big body that can go up and high-point the ball hurts.

6) While McDonald had some decent games toward the end of the year, they have been few and far between. Again, not saying throw this guy out on the street, but if you're blindly sitting by and saying that the TE2 spot is locked down for years because of a few decent blocks he's thrown in 2 or 3 games, you're setting yourself up for possible disappointment. No one is proven until they're proven. He should absolutely remain on the team, he should absolutely be allowed to develop and it's entirely possible and even quite likely that he will continue to improve, and maybe even to a point of being a great TE, but until he reaches that point, we cannot pass on elite prospects for the hope that he will become one himself.

Just curious: (1) what WR do you think would have a bigger impact for us (than ASJ) right away and (2) what do you think of ASJ? Is he someone you've watched thoroughly? If the answer to (2) is "no," I think you might change your mind once you watch some games. The guys is tremendous.


Regardless of how you feel about Seferian-Jenkins, the 49ers are set at TE with VD, McDonald and the potential of someone being brought in to compete with Celek. It isn't a priority in the slightest. WR is, especially if Boldin walks in the offseason. That means the 49ers are left with Crabtree and Patton as their WR's. That screams urgency. Even if Boldin is re-signed, there's no guarantee that Crabtree will be. WR depth is a must. They need to add a deep threat, they need to add another possession receiver type while at TE you'll still have VD and an improved McDonald.

At TE, the 49ers are fine. I expect major improvement from McDonald, by all accounts he's a hard worker and an intense competitor, I'd be slightly concerned if the guy was a space cadet the same way Jenkins was but from everything has been reported, he's working his ass off and he has shown real improvement out on the field. He's got a lot more work to do but he's moving in the right direction and we've seen flashes of the kind of monster he can be with the ball in his hands out in the open field.


Lastly, the dude completely trucked Richard Sherman. Just on that basis alone he has his spot locked in for the next couple of seasons.

This is where we disagree I suppose: need vs. talent.

I agree that you address needs, and in my mock that I've been working on, I would like to take 2-3 WRs. I don't see anyone in the 1st that I love (except maybe Adams from Fresno), but I see some tremendous players later in the draft (Abberaderis is a terrific football player and can be available with the 3rd round pick we got from TN). Having said that, I'll repeat: I don't want ASJ because we need a TE... I want ASJ because he's got superstar potential and can be a game-changer for us especially in the red zone. He's an elite blocker, has unreal size and the best pair of hands I've seen in a long time. McDonald has as much chance of turning into ASJ as Quinton Patton has of turning into Sammy Watkins. Not saying either can't happen, but it's not how I predict things going. So I look at it the same way. To say you expect McDonald to improve by a lot, yet not having that same confidence in Patton seems contradictory to me.

How I see positions of need:

1) Kicker (this is basic. Dawson is in his contract year. If he re-signs then this isn't a need obviously. Kind of a default one until he does)
2) WR
3) CB
4) DE (Smith is getting older, McDonald is good not great, and until we see production out of Carredine and Dial it's too early to call the position filled)
5) PR/KR (this is quickly fading. Really like what LMJ has been doing. Keep it up a few more games and this will fall to the bottom of the list)
6) S (kind of contradicting myself with FAs here, but I really like Whitner and see no reason why he wouldn't be retained)
7) QB (backup, no statement about CK here, just observing the trend in the NFL this year. Teams with decent backups stayed in playoff races till late)
8) FB (Miller's health is the only reason for this. Need an emergency option if his recovery is slower than expected)
9) TE (let McDonald prove himself before we rest on the position)
10) NT - don't see as a need at all unless an elite prospect is available late (not a high probability of that)
11) ILB - don't see as a need at all
12) OLB - don't see as a need at all

I also don't see needs as position specific, but rather as far as what guys can do. And to me, the biggest receiving need is having a big guy that can go up for the ball
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Not sure anyone has an issue with ASJs talent or potential (both are huge)...you just seemed to be advocating giving up on McDonald which doesn't make a lot of sense. If we drafted Seferian-Jenkins, I wouldn't be upset because he's a unique talent and definitely could be a dominant TE in this league. The question becomes, would the team be willing to use a 1st rounder on him (which is what it would take) given you already have 1 pro-bowl caliber TE and a young/developing 2nd rounder AND given all the other roster holes that need to be filled.

To me, that's what it comes down too. Clearly you think we should; I don't think we will.

Exactly. We disagree there, but you captured my though process perfectly. I tend to lean on talent. Seen far too often a team thinking they have a position filled and not drafting a really good prospect because of that (different sport, but think Derick Rose when the Bulls had Heinrich. They ended up doubling at PG and passing up on Beasley. Right move. Willis is another example I gave earlier). If I love a player and there isn't a superstar at the position (we can't, for example, draft an ILB for a while) then I'm all for taking them. You are likely right about what the staff will do, but if i had my vote, ASJ would be one of the first guys to receive it.