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Florida State WR Kelvin Benjamin

Originally posted by eonblue:
I really don't see how he's a 1st rd pick but he's being projected there. Im gonna rewatch the NCG to understand him more but a couple of points. First I've read reports he had a weight issue. Im on my phone now but a google search would bring up pictures of a big gut. The way he runs his routes is very sloppy too. All this leads me to believe he has a poor work ethic. Sorry but Im not for drafting guys because they're big. Some functionality is required. We have Baldwin on the roster and he's probably a better athlete.
I honestly think he's kind of dumb for coming out this early. He could have had another full season with the Heisman trophy winner, on a team sure to be explosive and a contender for a championship once more while polishing his game, improving as a route runner...etc. He's got nice size, a lot of potential, but he's just a sloppy player right now, very raw.


I also don't see the quickness or lateral movement from Benjamin, he's kind of a plodder that takes awhile to get up to full speed, if you've seen him try a double move.....it doesn't really flow. At times he'll look like the fastest guy out on the field, at other times he'll look like he's playing in quicksand.


Allen Robinson might not have the sort of ceiling as Benjamin does, but functionally, he's far more prepared to be an NFL receiver at this point, better route runner, better change of direction ability, more reliable hands. He may never be a Top 5 NFL receiver but if you're a contender with a coaching staff that can't develop receivers...at all....he's a damn good option.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Jan 10, 2014 at 12:25 PM ]
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by eonblue:
I really don't see how he's a 1st rd pick but he's being projected there. Im gonna rewatch the NCG to understand him more but a couple of points. First I've read reports he had a weight issue. Im on my phone now but a google search would bring up pictures of a big gut. The way he runs his routes is very sloppy too. All this leads me to believe he has a poor work ethic. Sorry but Im not for drafting guys because they're big. Some functionality is required. We have Baldwin on the roster and he's probably a better athlete.
I honestly think he's kind of dumb for coming out this early. He could have had another full season with the Heisman trophy winner, on a team sure to be explosive and a contender for a championship once more while polishing his game, improving as a route runner...etc. He's got nice size, a lot of potential, but he's just a sloppy player right now, very raw.

i agree. i don't see how he's a 1st rounder besides his size and strength at the position. route running is sloppy. drops passes. had motivation issues early. will his speed translate in the NFL? i rank someone like Jordan Matthews ahead of him.
Originally posted by LaMichaelJeff:
i agree. i don't see how he's a 1st rounder besides his size and strength at the position. route running is sloppy. drops passes. had motivation issues early. will his speed translate in the NFL? i rank someone like Jordan Matthews ahead of him.

Matthews, Robinson...etc. Benjamin in the long run might be a much better receiver than either of those guys....he could also be a huge bust. Basically, his upside right now is straight-line speed and leaping ability. If you play in a high octane vertical offense, he could be very useful, teams such as Cleveland or New Orleans could certainly find a role for him. I just don't see the role for him on this team and this offense. I think precision, route running, ability to develop separation, short-area quickness are all far more useful traits in this offense.
Originally posted by eonblue:
I really don't see how he's a 1st rd pick but he's being projected there. Im gonna rewatch the NCG to understand him more but a couple of points. First I've read reports he had a weight issue. Im on my phone now but a google search would bring up pictures of a big gut. The way he runs his routes is very sloppy too. All this leads me to believe he has a poor work ethic. Sorry but Im not for drafting guys because they're big. Some functionality is required. We have Baldwin on the roster and he's probably a better athlete.

If you watched the Florida game, you'd understand why. Florida's defense was ranked 8th overall in the nation last year and 7th in pass defense. As a defense, they only gave up 9 TD pass all season, and have given up only 16 TD passes in two years total...that's how good the Gators are against the pass.

Kelvin Benjamin torched them this year for 9 catches, 212 yards and 3 TD passes. Yes, Benjamin alone was responsible for 1/3 of all the TD passes allowed by the Florida defense this season. He might've had an even bigger game if not for 3 drops (which is something he REALLY needs to work on). You don't have to like the guy nor do you have to see him as a 1st round talent, but that kind of production against a team laden with NFL talent and adept at shutting teams down in the passing game, warrants a look.
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
If you watched the Florida game, you'd understand why. Florida's defense was ranked 8th overall in the nation last year and 7th in pass defense. As a defense, they only gave up 9 TD pass all season, and have given up only 16 TD passes in two years total...that's how good the Gators are against the pass.

Kelvin Benjamin torched them this year for 9 catches, 212 yards and 3 TD passes. Yes, Benjamin alone was responsible for 1/3 of all the TD passes allowed by the Florida defense this season. He might've had an even bigger game if not for 3 drops (which is something he REALLY needs to work on). You don't have to like the guy nor do you have to see him as a 1st round talent, but that kind of production against a team laden with NFL talent and adept at shutting teams down in the passing game, warrants a look.

You're citing one game where he picked up 1/5 of his season total yards. What about the 26 yards he had against Bethune-Cookman? 23 yards against Wake Forest? 46 yards against Miami. 37 yards against Nevada. I have criticized Moncrief for being up and down but Benjamin makes him look the model of consistency. . It begs the question, which player are you getting? 200+ yards against Florida? Or the guy who put up some largely forgettable games throughout the season.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
If you watched the Florida game, you'd understand why. Florida's defense was ranked 8th overall in the nation last year and 7th in pass defense. As a defense, they only gave up 9 TD pass all season, and have given up only 16 TD passes in two years total...that's how good the Gators are against the pass.

Kelvin Benjamin torched them this year for 9 catches, 212 yards and 3 TD passes. Yes, Benjamin alone was responsible for 1/3 of all the TD passes allowed by the Florida defense this season. He might've had an even bigger game if not for 3 drops (which is something he REALLY needs to work on). You don't have to like the guy nor do you have to see him as a 1st round talent, but that kind of production against a team laden with NFL talent and adept at shutting teams down in the passing game, warrants a look.

You're citing one game where he picked up 1/5 of his season total yards. What about the 26 yards he had against Bethune-Cookman? 23 yards against Wake Forest? 46 yards against Miami. 37 yards against Nevada. I have criticized Moncrief for being up and down but Benjamin makes him look the model of consistency. . It begs the question, which player are you getting? 200+ yards against Florida? Or the guy who put up some largely forgettable games throughout the season.

Fair point. My reply to eonblue was targeted towards his re-watching the NC game to understand him more. I merely suggested he watch one against one of the best defenses in the country as well. As you well know, many of the FSU games were blowouts early on, and most of the starters (including the starting QB, Jameis Winston) pretty much shut it down at halftime. In fact, they threw the ball nearly 50% less in the 2nd half of games this year than the first half because for most of the year, they didn't need to.

Winston's pass attempts in those early tune-up games:

Nevada - 18 (62-7 blowout)
Bethune-Cookman - 19 (54-6 blowout)

By comparison, the team's leading receiver (Rashad Greene) only had 3 catches for 39 yards against Nevada and 4 catches for 44 yards against B-T. And of course Greene's worst game (3 catches, 29 yards) came against Idaho in a 80-14 shellacking of Idaho. (IMO, it wasn't for lack of effort or ability)

Against Miami and Wake, they were both blowouts as well but Benjamin didn't do all that much in either so that's fair. On the flip-side, you can say that he showed up big in the most important games:

Against #8 Clemson - 3 catches, 62 yards, 20.7 average, 1 TD
Rivalry game at Florida - 9 catches, 212 yards, 23.6 average, 3 TDs
ACC Championship game - 5 catches, 119 yards, 23.8 average, 2 TDs
BCS National Championship game - 4 catches, 54 yards, Championship-winning TD catch

So one can say he disappeared or whatever during some of those blowouts and that's fine. Seems to me the team in general let their foot off the pedal in most of those games, but hey, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe he just plays poorly against bad teams and rises to the challenge in the big moments.
[ Edited by GhostofFredDean74 on Jan 10, 2014 at 3:31 PM ]
I'll take him with the 32nd if we win it all unless someone who had no business falling falls or one of our 2nds, baalke usually drafts for potential and our staff usually redshirts our rookies so what the hell. But then again if we keep our 1st 3 picks I want them to contribute from day 1, I honestly hate that redshirting bs
I wouldn't touch Benjamin and I'm sure the 49ers wouldn't either they learned from the Jenkins pick you can have alot of talent but if you can catch the ball consistantly you ain't a part of this team. His speed and separation is very frighting looks like USC Mike Williams.

Better Pick:
Allen Robinson
Jordan Matthews
Davante Adams
Odell Beckham
Jarvis Landry
Originally posted by Harbaalke:
I wouldn't touch Benjamin and I'm sure the 49ers wouldn't either they learned from the Jenkins pick you can have alot of talent but if you can catch the ball consistantly you ain't a part of this team. His speed and separation is very frighting looks like USC Mike Williams.

Better Pick:
Allen Robinson
Jordan Matthews
Davante Adams
Odell Beckham
Jarvis Landry

Since entering the league out of Texas Tech as the 10th overall draft pick in 2009, Crabtree has dropped 5.9 percent of his targets. Only five of the 69 qualified receivers have dropped more.

So there goes that premise.
Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:
Comparisons to Calvin Johnson are very premature...physically, yeah, I can see that. It's apples & oranges at this point, 'til Benjamin proves himself in the NFL. Intriguiging as he is potentially, I haven't given up on Baldwin. Apparently, neither have the Niners...he's still on the roster. He's got the size, speed and intangibles that'd seem to fit well in our offense. Assuming we re-sign Boldin, adding Crabtree, Baldwin & Patton to the WR list, my question is would it be better to add a speed guy to that mix instead of another "big"? I'm leaning toward saying yes if the 4 listed above are at the top of the WR food chain. Would love to see Watkins or Marquise Lee added because of their abilities to stretch the field. I wouldn't be upset if they added Benjamin or one of my personal favorites, Devante Parker (Louisville), either.

Pretty sure 49ers would take a cap hit for releasing Baldwin this year, but his salary next year is not guaranteed. Maybe they are hoping to trade him before they cut him loose, but I'm pretty sure they haven't seen enough to justify his cap figure for next year.
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:
Comparisons to Calvin Johnson are very premature...physically, yeah, I can see that. It's apples & oranges at this point, 'til Benjamin proves himself in the NFL. Intriguiging as he is potentially, I haven't given up on Baldwin. Apparently, neither have the Niners...he's still on the roster. He's got the size, speed and intangibles that'd seem to fit well in our offense. Assuming we re-sign Boldin, adding Crabtree, Baldwin & Patton to the WR list, my question is would it be better to add a speed guy to that mix instead of another "big"? I'm leaning toward saying yes if the 4 listed above are at the top of the WR food chain. Would love to see Watkins or Marquise Lee added because of their abilities to stretch the field. I wouldn't be upset if they added Benjamin or one of my personal favorites, Devante Parker (Louisville), either.

Pretty sure 49ers would take a cap hit for releasing Baldwin this year, but his salary next year is not guaranteed. Maybe they are hoping to trade him before they cut him loose, but I'm pretty sure they haven't seen enough to justify his cap figure for next year.

Technically, the cap hit will be for Jenkins and not Baldwin (the Chiefs will take the cap hit for him).
Originally posted by Harbaalke:
I wouldn't touch Benjamin and I'm sure the 49ers wouldn't either they learned from the Jenkins pick you can have alot of talent but if you can catch the ball consistantly you ain't a part of this team. His speed and separation is very frighting looks like USC Mike Williams.

Better Pick:
Allen Robinson
Jordan Matthews
Davante Adams
Odell Beckham
Jarvis Landry

That's silly. He's much much more fluid than Williams. Guy run in the 4.4 range he'll go top 15. Guys just rant that big fast and can catch.
I seen a mock already with him as our pick, it said he's a stud but inconsistent. This years draft is supposedly deep in wide receiver talent and a couple years ago we took that apparition of a prospect from Illinois and it didn't work out so I'm not convinced HarBaalke pull the trigger on another receiver in the first. Also free agency has some good #2's available. The way I feel is this, last year they targeted somebody, were aggressive and got exactly who they wanted in Eric Reid. I think they need to do the same thing this year whoever that player is, I don't know.
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
If you watched the Florida game, you'd understand why. Florida's defense was ranked 8th overall in the nation last year and 7th in pass defense. As a defense, they only gave up 9 TD pass all season, and have given up only 16 TD passes in two years total...that's how good the Gators are against the pass.

Kelvin Benjamin torched them this year for 9 catches, 212 yards and 3 TD passes. Yes, Benjamin alone was responsible for 1/3 of all the TD passes allowed by the Florida defense this season. He might've had an even bigger game if not for 3 drops (which is something he REALLY needs to work on). You don't have to like the guy nor do you have to see him as a 1st round talent, but that kind of production against a team laden with NFL talent and adept at shutting teams down in the passing game, warrants a look.

Good point. Funny thing I have watched that game multiple times. I wanted to scout the Gators secondary and after the game I was left with the impression that Benjamins performance was more indicative of Floridas complete collapse. Muschamp was ripping heads off on the sideline. The team gave up.

But none the less he did have a big game. Florida played him in off man most the game which only worked as long as the rush was getting there. When the pass rush failed you had a 6'6 beast running full speed in an off man cushion. Too much space for him to operate. Auburn actually played him in press and almost embarrassingly he was pressed off by a guy 8 incbes shorter than him.

I rewatched the game though. He has a slow release. Hes clearly not a natural runner. Personally I think NFL DBs would eat him up. He looks as if he's struggling to gain momentum with that frame. If he slimmed down and worked on his route running for a couple of years he could be a Vince Jackson type. He will never be a polished route runner but he's the type of guy that can power through coverage but yet again he's sooo raw.
Originally posted by LBSI9ers:
That's silly. He's much much more fluid than Williams. Guy run in the 4.4 range he'll go top 15. Guys just rant that big fast and can catch.

4.4?

Ive seen 4.4 in a WR and Benjamin is not 4.4 nor will he be in the range. My best guess is 4.6 and higher. You're going to have to wait for DGB to see 4.4 with a 6'6 frame