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Zach Mettenberger joins Aaron Murray in the SEC QB w/ torn ACL club

Originally posted by communist:


his size is not questionable at all. Wilson and brees prove it on.every sunday.

More the exception to the rule, both those guys have stronger arms than Murray.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by communist:


his size is not questionable at all. Wilson and brees prove it on.every sunday.

More the exception to the rule, both those guys have stronger arms than Murray.
This is mainly why I'm on the fence about Murray. I like his game, I like his grittiness, I like the intangibles he brings, and of course his extensive experience performing against top competition but with his questionable arm strength I can't help but see another Colt McCoy, another smaller than ideal, highly experienced and succesful college QB who just doesn't quite have enough arm strength to be a starter in the NFL.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
More the exception to the rule, both those guys have stronger arms than Murray.
who set this "rule"??? where is the Argument??? or is it another bogus correlation?
Good fit for the WCO, he's a gamer, smart QB, I think he'd make a good backup project. If Tolzien can get some time in GB when ARod goes down I don't see why Murray can't be a productive backup.
Originally posted by communist:
who set this "rule"??? where is the Argument??? or is it another bogus correlation?

Based on the fact that the vast majority of the QB's are not midgets. But there are plenty of undersized guys with average arms who wash out of the league on a consistent basis. Murray has a lot in common with Colt McCoy, might have a little better arm but essentially they were very productive college passers who are best suited as backups at the NFL level.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Nov 25, 2013 at 10:13 PM ]
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Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by communist:
who set this "rule"??? where is the Argument??? or is it another bogus correlation?

Based on the fact that the vast majority of the QB's are not midgets. But there are plenty of undersized guys with average arms who wash out of the league on a consistent basis. Murray has a lot in common with Colt McCoy, might have a little better arm but essentially they were very productive college passers who are best suited as backups at the NFL level.

Murray = Productive passer in Pro Style offense

McCoy = Productive passer in Gimmick style offense

Murray's QB mechanics>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>McCoy

I'd take Aaron Murray over Colt McCoy any day of the week, year, decade or century.
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Its time the 9ers stop messing with QB's that are coming outta Gimmicky offense and get one that actually knows how to read a defense.
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Murray = Productive passer in Pro Style offense

McCoy = Productive passer in Gimmick style offense

Murray's QB mechanics>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>McCoy

I'd take Aaron Murray over Colt McCoy any day of the week, year, decade or century.

Being a passer in a pro-style offense doesn't mean that much. A good QB will learn how to play in pretty much any offense over time. Plenty of guys who were studs in a pro-style offense who didn't amount to anything in the NFL. Maybe you can recall the Ricky Stanzi hype a few years ago. "OMG, but he can play in a pro-style offense, he doesn't come from a gimmick system like those other guys." "He has a high football IQ and can make all the necessary throws." I remember how many people were butt hurt when the 49ers traded up to draft Kaepernick because Stanzi would have been available later and he put up big numbers in a complicated pro style offense.


Running a pro-style offense certainly didn't help Brady Quinn much in terms of being a productive NFL player and he had similar limitations as Murray.


It only helps to a point, the problem with a guy like Murray is that his ceiling is very limited, to me he seems good enough to be an occasional starter but primarily a high quality backup QB and there's nothing wrong with that. I would have no problem with the 49ers drafting him in the 5th round, that'd be great value for that point in the draft.....but certainly not in the 2nd or 3rd round. He's a guy with a solid ground floor but a low ceiling.



Look, we're both going to have to agree to disagree on this and a couple seasons from now we can return to this topic and see who was right and who was wrong and the loser can buy the winner a single bottle of fairly good quality booze. Deal?
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Nov 25, 2013 at 10:43 PM ]
Originally posted by sfout:
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/10029963/georgia-bulldogs-aaron-murray-torn-acl-return

ATHENS, Ga. – Aaron Murray's record-breaking college career is over.Georgia sports communications director Claude Felton confirmed on Sunday that the senior quarterback tore the ACL in his left knee in Saturday's 59-17 win against Kentucky and will miss next Saturday's regular-season finale against Georgia Tech, as well as the Bulldogs' bowl game.Murray will undergo surgery to repair the knee on Tuesday, but will face a lengthy rehabilitation process.He will not compete in a postseason all-star game -- Bulldogs tight end Arthur Lynch said earlier this week that he and Murray planned to play in the Senior Bowl in January -- or the mid-February NFL combine during the run-up to the draft, which begins May 8.

Tough break - now he'll slide and definitely be picked up as project QB or very delayed plan B for coaches on the hot seat.

yes i have been contemplating joining naammla (north american aaron muray man love association)..... be proud to be an aaron murray lover
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Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Murray = Productive passer in Pro Style offense

McCoy = Productive passer in Gimmick style offense

Murray's QB mechanics>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>McCoy

I'd take Aaron Murray over Colt McCoy any day of the week, year, decade or century.

Being a passer in a pro-style offense doesn't mean that much. A good QB will learn how to play in pretty much any offense over time. Plenty of guys who were studs in a pro-style offense who didn't amount to anything in the NFL. Maybe you can recall the Ricky Stanzi hype a few years ago. "OMG, but he can play in a pro-style offense, he doesn't come from a gimmick system like those other guys." "He has a high football IQ and can make all the necessary throws." I remember how many people were butt hurt when the 49ers traded up to draft Kaepernick because Stanzi would have been available later and he put up big numbers in a complicated pro style offense.


Running a pro-style offense certainly didn't help Brady Quinn much in terms of being a productive NFL player and he had similar limitations as Murray.


It only helps to a point, the problem with a guy like Murray is that his ceiling is very limited, to me he seems good enough to be an occasional starter but primarily a high quality backup QB and there's nothing wrong with that. I would have no problem with the 49ers drafting him in the 5th round, that'd be great value for that point in the draft.....but certainly not in the 2nd or 3rd round. He's a guy with a solid ground floor but a low ceiling.



Look, we're both going to have to agree to disagree on this and a couple seasons from now we can return to this topic and see who was right and who was wrong and the loser can buy the winner a single bottle of fairly good quality booze. Deal?

Oh C'mon Phoenix you name a couple of QBs who are pretty much unproven and are question marks. It can really be argued that the teams they're with are hardly teams you could succeed with. For every Brady Quinn though I will throw a Matt Ryan, Matt Stafford, Carson Pamler, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Sam Bradford, Phillip Rivers, Andrew Luck and so on and I know I can go on. Most I mention are top passers and top QBs in the NFL. There's a reason QBs like Colt McCoy and most of the gimmicky QBs in the NFL aren't top
QBs in the league. Hey how's RG3 doing btw?
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Oh C'mon Phoenix you name a couple of QBs who are pretty much unproven and are question marks. It can really be argued that the teams they're with are hardly teams you could succeed with. For every Brady Quinn though I will throw a Matt Ryan, Matt Stafford, Carson Pamler, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Sam Bradford, Phillip Rivers, Andrew Luck and so on and I know I can go on. Most I mention are top passers and top QBs in the NFL. There's a reason QBs like Colt McCoy and most of the gimmicky QBs in the NFL aren't top
QBs in the league. Hey how's RG3 doing btw?

Every single guy you mentioned with the exception of Brady and Brees was a Top 5 pick and for good reason while Murray even healthy would have been a stretch in the 2nd round. Huge difference there.


Christian Ponder ran a pro-style offense at Florida, how has he looked in the NFL thus far with similar knocks on him coming out of the draft. There have been a ton of QB's who ran pro style offenses in college who failed, didn't do very well at the NFL level. If you like I can keep naming them, there's no shortage of names out there. You seem to act as if a guy running a pro-style offense in college is an instant guarantee of success, which is far from the truth. Drew Brees was a gimmick QB at Purdue, he ran a variation of the run and shoot spread offense, he seems to have done fine in the NFL, no? Jay Cutler, Joe Flacco, all ran gimmick offenses in college and have done fine as NFL QB's. With offenses such as those in Philly and New England, you see NFL teams using more tenets of the college game and more "gimmicks." Many of the next generation QB's are "gimmick passers."


Like I said, it comes down to the overall traits of a guy, Murray has some nice traits, he also happens to be shorter than desirable, with a weaker arm than other smaller QB's such as Brees and Wilson. I see a guy who can be a quality game manager and backup in the NFL, nothing more. If I had to make a very direct comparison, I'd say a better Ty Detmer works nicely. A great guy to have as a backup, not a guy you want starting long-term though.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Nov 26, 2013 at 1:03 AM ]
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I'm off to bed but look at the QB you brought up Phoenix, what a horrible example or should I say weak one. Again Ponder is still young and might I add doing much better than a RG3 or a Colt McCoy. Also another thing to point out is the mechanics of a QB from a Pro Style offense will translate faster than one from a Gimick offense. Also could've sworn Drew Brees lined up under-center in college often? Also shouldn't draft position further prove my point in preference of a Pro Style QB? And refresh my memory but when was the last time a Spread option or read-option QB win a Super Bowl, I guess when Alex Smith wins one, he'll be the exception not the rule as you say in the other post.
Originally posted by Kolohe:
I'm off to bed but look at the QB you brought up Phoenix, what a horrible example or should I say weak one. Again Ponder is still young and might I add doing much better than a RG3 or a Colt McCoy. Also another thing to point out is the mechanics of a QB from a Pro Style offense will translate faster than one from a Gimick offense. Also could've sworn Drew Brees lined up under-center in college often? Also shouldn't draft position further prove my point in preference of a Pro Style QB?

C'mon, this is nonsense. RG3 had a tremendous rookie season, better than any season of Ponder's career thus far, he's struggled this season but of course his OL is garbage and he really doesn't have all that much to work with. Writing the guy off at this point makes no sense, you act like you're talking about Ryan Leaf
here.




And refresh my memory but when was the last time a Spread option or read-option QB win a Super Bowl, I guess when Alex Smith wins one, he'll be the exception not the rule as you say in the other post.



Are we talking about in the NFL or in from college? If college, then this year with Joe Flacco who ran a "gimmick" spread offense in college. If you look at a team like New England, they've essentially been running an offshoot of the "gimmick" Run and Shoot for awhile now. The whole idea of "gimmick" offenses is meaningless, what happens when pro style offenses become more like college spread offenses....because that's what we are seeing more and more and the NFL is obviously encouraging it.


Torn ACL?? Qualifies to be a Niner!
His arm is pretty strong, he has good pocket presence and he is accurate too. He makes good decisions. I like him a lot. He's underrated IMO just because he is not real big.