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WR Dorial Green-Beckham - FREE AGENT

Originally posted by SofaKing:
This. It's perfectly reasonable to project the 49ers passing on DGB given the Aldon/RayMac fiascos. Not to mention it seems like management has the phrase "win with class" stuck on a continuous loop.

I personally would have a tough time passing on DGB at #15, but ultimately would probably pass too. Has nothing to do with being a choir boy or standing on a pedestal looking down at others. DJB's personal problems are very real and they have very real consequences if he continues to screw up. Just ask Josh Gordon.

I have questions about DGB being able to contribute at this level. Hell with the off field mess because in case you haven't noticed the media has been intent on portraying us as buffoons for quite some time now. That ship has sailed. Right now we need to win. When we do we can act more classy than SEA did. If DGB is the guy we need to stretch the field and make big plays down field and get TDs in the red zone that's all I care about. The stuff that happened in college happened but it doesn't mean it can't be corrected
Originally posted by SofaKing:
Originally posted by slowriot:
Originally posted by jrouter4949:
And I guess you would prefer someone who can't get open in the NFL like Parker and Strong who will most assuredly struggle to get separation yeah that's what the 9ers need, this board has way too many judgemental people on it who never made a mistake in their lives, you guys harping on DGB take a good hard long look in the mirror and see Perfect Paul.

You're missing the point.

People on this board are projecting what they believe the 49ers will do - not what they would necessarily do if they were in charge.

After the dramas of Aldon and Ray Mac, Jed made it clear he wants to 'win with class.' In his mind, that likely means steering clear of prospects like DGB (at least in the first round).

Jed's already had to deal with the PR nightmare of firing a hugely popular and winning HC and replacing him with a DL coach who bungled his first press conference. The last thing he'd want is another barrage of questions about his 1st round pick with character concerns.

This. It's perfectly reasonable to project the 49ers passing on DGB given the Aldon/RayMac fiascos. Not to mention it seems like management has the phrase "win with class" stuck on a continuous loop.

I personally would have a tough time passing on DGB at #15, but ultimately would probably pass too. Has nothing to do with being a choir boy or standing on a pedestal looking down at others. DJB's personal problems are very real and they have very real consequences if he continues to screw up. Just ask Josh Gordon.

I am tired of hearing about winning with class from a proven liar. The Niner's haven't won with class since Jed was in grade school. And if the current state of the NFL tells you anything, you either win period, or lose with class. Let's look at the last 3 Super Bowl champs for instance. I'm not saying we should win at ANY cost, just win! Randy Moss had questionable character coming out of college and I'd take that in a New York minute at this point. If he truly wants to win with class and is referring to the questionable off field activities, then Aldon should be gone. Culliver should be gone. Cox should be gone. Boone is proof that questionable decisions made in youth can be overcome. And, if he truly has final word over Baalke, well that is all, my friends. At some point, football guys have to make football decisions and all they need that brat to do is sign the checks.
[ Edited by ronniefreakinlott42 on Feb 27, 2015 at 1:08 AM ]
Originally posted by Pillbusta:
I have questions about DGB being able to contribute at this level. Hell with the off field mess because in case you haven't noticed the media has been intent on portraying us as buffoons for quite some time now. That ship has sailed. Right now we need to win. When we do we can act more classy than SEA did. If DGB is the guy we need to stretch the field and make big plays down field and get TDs in the red zone that's all I care about. The stuff that happened in college happened but it doesn't mean it can't be corrected

The problem is DGB's specific problems are the kinds that get you suspended. I don't have a problem with drafting a player who's a jerk. You can't be suspended by the league for being a jerk. I'll take a Richard Sherman type douchebag on my team who shows up to work and dominates.

However, I would be very hesitant to add someone who has a history of missing entire seasons due to suspension. There is nothing worse than counting on someone to be a key member of your team, only to see them selfishly f**k it up and leave you hanging time and time again. That's a serious concern with DGB, and it would be irresponsible to just draft him on talent alone. You have to be convinced he will stay out of trouble to justify spending a premium draft choice on him. What good is a uber-talented receiver if he's not even on the field to play?


Originally posted by ronniefreakinlott42:
I am tired of hearing about winning with class from a proven liar. The Niner's haven't won with class since Jed was in grade school. And if the current state of the NFL tells you anything, you either win period, or lose with class. Let's look at the last 3 Super Bowl champs for instance. I'm not saying we should win at ANY cost, just win! Randy Moss had questionable character coming out of college and I'd take that in a New York minute at this point. If he truly wants to win with class and is referring to the questionable off field activities, then Aldon should be gone. Culliver should be gone. Cox should be gone. Boone is proof that questionable decisions made in youth can be overcome. And, if he truly has final word over Baalke, well that is all, my friends. At some point, football guys have to make football decisions and all they need that brat to do is sign the checks.

Same answer I gave Pill.
Originally posted by ronniefreakinlott42:
I am tired of hearing about winning with class from a proven liar. The Niner's haven't won with class since Jed was in grade school. And if the current state of the NFL tells you anything, you either win period, or lose with class. Let's look at the last 3 Super Bowl champs for instance. I'm not saying we should win at ANY cost, just win! Randy Moss had questionable character coming out of college and I'd take that in a New York minute at this point. If he truly wants to win with class and is referring to the questionable off field activities, then Aldon should be gone. Culliver should be gone. Cox should be gone. Boone is proof that questionable decisions made in youth can be overcome. And, if he truly has final word over Baalke, well that is all, my friends. At some point, football guys have to make football decisions and all they need that brat to do is sign the checks.

Yep, doubt you'll get many arguments from anyone on this point. Jed York's hypocrisy is tough to swallow. He should never have mentioned winning with class as a reason for replacing JH as coach. He's dug himself a hole that will be tough to get out of.
Originally posted by ronniefreakinlott42:
I am tired of hearing about winning with class from a proven liar. The Niner's haven't won with class since Jed was in grade school. And if the current state of the NFL tells you anything, you either win period, or lose with class. Let's look at the last 3 Super Bowl champs for instance. I'm not saying we should win at ANY cost, just win! Randy Moss had questionable character coming out of college and I'd take that in a New York minute at this point. If he truly wants to win with class and is referring to the questionable off field activities, then Aldon should be gone. Culliver should be gone. Cox should be gone. Boone is proof that questionable decisions made in youth can be overcome. And, if he truly has final word over Baalke, well that is all, my friends. At some point, football guys have to make football decisions and all they need that brat to do is sign the checks.

Walsh was class but we've always had some rowdy players. Haley then you had Deion showboating and whatnot during the 94 season. The coaches were classy but we had some players with outsized personalities. And why such vitriol for the owner? Cmon man!
I think hes too much of a risk with all the factors involved.

First, this draft class has so many talented, less questionable receivers, it should give the team pause to go after DGB knowing he COULD very well not be matured from his time away from the game.

Did the discipline help him grow up and learn from his mistakes? Will the money hes going to be making go towards his home, family or will it be going to illegal subatances?

The team i believe already knows if hes on their board or not from the interview process.

But at the end of the day, if im GM, I go aggressively after Parker or Strong instead of DGB because of the risk involved with off the field issues that really cant be proven that its in his past, AND also because he missed a whole year of competitive football. It may take him more time, teaching, and coaching to transition th the NFL
Originally posted by SofaKing:
The problem is DGB's specific problems are the kinds that get you suspended. I don't have a problem with drafting a player who's a jerk. You can't be suspended by the league for being a jerk. I'll take a Richard Sherman type douchebag on my team who shows up to work and dominates.

However, I would be very hesitant to add someone who has a history of missing entire seasons due to suspension. There is nothing worse than counting on someone to be a key member of your team, only to see them selfishly f**k it up and leave you hanging time and time again. That's a serious concern with DGB, and it would be irresponsible to just draft him on talent alone. You have to be convinced he will stay out of trouble to justify spending a premium draft choice on him. What good is a uber-talented receiver if he's not even on the field to play?



Same answer I gave Pill.

I would hope that an interview and a little research could determine whether DGB is ready for the NFL. Personally I think he is. He has sat a year away from the game. He has had time to see a lot this year of how off field stuff takes you away from the game. We've seen AP sidelined so I think he and everyone else knows the deal. I just question his fit talent wise. I've seen nothing to indicate DGB being the next Aaron Hernandez. I think he can stay away from weed and roughing up broads with the vets we have in this team. Heck maybe he befriends Kap and stays straight
Originally posted by SFL49ER:
I think hes too much of a risk with all the factors involved.

First, this draft class has so many talented, less questionable receivers, it should give the team pause to go after DGB knowing he COULD very well not be matured from his time away from the game.

Did the discipline help him grow up and learn from his mistakes? Will the money hes going to be making go towards his home, family or will it be going to illegal subatances?

The team i believe already knows if hes on their board or not from the interview process.

But at the end of the day, if im GM, I go aggressively after Parker or Strong instead of DGB because of the risk involved with off the field issues that really cant be proven that its in his past, AND also because he missed a whole year of competitive football. It may take him more time, teaching, and coaching to transition th the NFL

Parker I like because he has proven to be a big play threat. Strong not so much. I like Parker for us as much as anyone. Over White and maybe Cooper too. Next in line could potentially be DGB. We need guys that can get chunk yardage with wide catching radiuses
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Originally posted by SofaKing:
Originally posted by slowriot:
Originally posted by jrouter4949:
And I guess you would prefer someone who can't get open in the NFL like Parker and Strong who will most assuredly struggle to get separation yeah that's what the 9ers need, this board has way too many judgemental people on it who never made a mistake in their lives, you guys harping on DGB take a good hard long look in the mirror and see Perfect Paul.

You're missing the point.

People on this board are projecting what they believe the 49ers will do - not what they would necessarily do if they were in charge.

After the dramas of Aldon and Ray Mac, Jed made it clear he wants to 'win with class.' In his mind, that likely means steering clear of prospects like DGB (at least in the first round).

Jed's already had to deal with the PR nightmare of firing a hugely popular and winning HC and replacing him with a DL coach who bungled his first press conference. The last thing he'd want is another barrage of questions about his 1st round pick with character concerns.

This. It's perfectly reasonable to project the 49ers passing on DGB given the Aldon/RayMac fiascos. Not to mention it seems like management has the phrase "win with class" stuck on a continuous loop.

I personally would have a tough time passing on DGB at #15, but ultimately would probably pass too. Has nothing to do with being a choir boy or standing on a pedestal looking down at others. DJB's personal problems are very real and they have very real consequences if he continues to screw up. Just ask Josh Gordon.

Jed York has to learn when to keep his mouth shut. His "winning with class" remark was really not needed.

Giving a troubled player, DGB in this case, a chance to prove that he has turned his life around could well be considered a classy thing to do.

If the 49ers draft DGB, I will consider it a reasoned risk and a class act and hope that it works out well.

If the 49ers do not draft DGB, I will not be upset. .

Originally posted by slowriot:
Originally posted by jrouter4949:
Originally posted by TheRickestRick:
Originally posted by daragon:
I stopped reading at "small hands". They aren't small. They just aren't monsterous.

Lol ok... less than the average receiver. The point was he really isn't that solid of a pass catcher, he won't get those second chance grabs on the ball at the pro level like he did in college.

But its not the worst pick, just don't like that much risk at 15. Trade back to 30 and steal him right before Seattle takes him… Id be all for that.
And I guess you would prefer someone who can't get open in the NFL like Parker and Strong who will most assuredly struggle to get separation yeah that's what the 9ers need, this board has way too many judgemental people on it who never made a mistake in their lives, you guys harping on DGB take a good hard long look in the mirror and see Perfect Paul.

Strong ran a 4.44.
Parker ran a 4.45
DGB ran a 4.49

/argument

Originally posted by crake49:
Originally posted by slowriot:
Originally posted by jrouter4949:
Originally posted by TheRickestRick:
Originally posted by daragon:
I stopped reading at "small hands". They aren't small. They just aren't monsterous.

Lol ok... less than the average receiver. The point was he really isn't that solid of a pass catcher, he won't get those second chance grabs on the ball at the pro level like he did in college.

But its not the worst pick, just don't like that much risk at 15. Trade back to 30 and steal him right before Seattle takes him… Id be all for that.
And I guess you would prefer someone who can't get open in the NFL like Parker and Strong who will most assuredly struggle to get separation yeah that's what the 9ers need, this board has way too many judgemental people on it who never made a mistake in their lives, you guys harping on DGB take a good hard long look in the mirror and see Perfect Paul.

Strong ran a 4.44.
Parker ran a 4.45
DGB ran a 4.49

/argument

Strong 6'2" 217 9" hands 4.44
Parker 6'3" 209 9 1/4" hands 4.45
DGB 6'5" 237 9" hands 4.49

DGB very impressive adding weight will probably run faster on his pro day
Originally posted by Quest4six:
Was taking you seriously until the dry sarcasm at the end. I've been pretty open to having my opinion changed and respectful in terms of sharing my opinion. In return I expect the same, if you can't follow that please just ignore me.

He did have great drills. I'm not saying that he won't end up being great, or that he won't become Moss/Calvin.

What I'm saying is we have a guy who is rated this high because of his potential and nothing else. 1/4 of his stats last season came against Kentucky. The 3 games before that against stiffer competition he was abysmal.
You said it yourself, he is extremely raw. There are a number of things he is going to have to develop, and a number of ways he is going to have to do them. Beating press coverage (he can't) run blocking (could be better) route running (learning).
Spending the 15th pick on this guy is going to be a long term investment. He probably won't make many snaps the first year, or the second. He going to have to put on weight, and learn how to use his hands more effectively while learning to beat an NFL press coverage team (Sherman and the Turds).
All that and he has to stay clean off the field.

I'd rather spend my 15th pick on a guy who has proven himself in college for more than just a couple games (looks like the bulk of his stats came from 3 games)
Trade up for Kevin White or wait for Parker. Spend the first pick on DL or BPA. Get Coates in the second

All of those options put us in a better spot in my opinion.

Why do people keep saying this? You make it seem as if this guy was discovered in the jungles of Africa and has zero football acumen.

Fact of the matter is, he has game tape where he does some pretty damn impressive things on the football field. He has unusually quick feet for his size, great body control and NATURAL HANDS - these are all God-given football talents that can't be coached up or worked on. The weakness you cite, however - run blocking, route running, beating press coverage - are all technique, effort and strength based, and areas that CAN be improved.

What I feel the problem here is that with the "Calvin Johnsons 2.0" hype, the kid is being blasted because he's not Calvin Johnson, who is THE biggest freak of nature to ever hit the NFL combine. So, I would say that the idea that "DGB is not Calvin Johnson athletically, therefore he can't be a #1 WR in the NFL" is a major fallacy.

And saying things like "He won't get many snaps his 1st or 2nd year" is just absurd and has no merit. I'm so sure he will have trouble cracking a WR corps who has NOBODY that is even close to proven after Anquan Boldin. Lloyd and Crabtre will be gone, Stevie J is a likely cap casualty, and Patton/Ellington are intriguing but again... have not shown anything to prove that they will be safe #2 or #3 targets.

I'm also sure teams are very concerned about a 6'5, 237 lb WR needing to "put on weight". lol.

Another thing... Kevin White will be gone in the Top 5, if not sooner, and we would prob need to give up next years 1st round pick as well as other picks to get into striking distance. There are several WR needy teams picking before us, so it's also very likely that DaVante Parker is gone as well.

**I don't necessarily think we should draft DGB and our FO might have taken him off their draft board completely due to our recent off field problems... but the criticisms you guys are coming up with here are either blown out of proportion (He can't learn to beat press, He can't learn to run better routes, He can't learn to be a better run blocker) or just completely erroneous (He's not quite Moss/CJ so he sucks, he is 100% potential)
Originally posted by Harbaalke:
Strong 6'2" 217 9" hands 4.44
Parker 6'3" 209 9 1/4" hands 4.45
DGB 6'5" 237 9" hands 4.49

DGB very impressive adding weight will probably run faster on his pro day

Because everyone runs faster at their pro days, or because you think he is still acclimating to the additional weight?

If the 49ers are going to take him, I don't really want him to run faster at his pro day, but if he's off our board, I want him going sub 4.4
[ Edited by WRATHman44 on Feb 27, 2015 at 2:41 PM ]
Originally posted by mayo49:
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
For a jump ball guy, a 33" vert is pathetic. His greatest asset was supposed to be an ability to go up and get contested deep balls. Short arms and sad vert did him no favors.

His vertical was more than pathetic.

I don't mean to be rude, but that sounds like a very limited understanding of both what it takes to be a good jump ball WR and how these drills and measurements REALLY correlate to game specific situations.

VERTICAL LEAP: Have you ever actually WATCHED this drill? Players are not allowed to take any steps (meaning no momentum) and jump straight up. Unless it's a hail mary pass, this situation NEVER HAPPENS IN THE NFL. Actual on-field jump ball situations involve either running starts, can be 1 or 2 footed, and doing some from different positions. A higher testing on vert measurement at the combine doesn't necessarily mean that player can get higher in non-static jumps, and vice versa.

ARM LENGTH/HAND SIZE: His arms are not long FOR HIS SIZE- doesn't mean he has t-rex arms and still doesn't provide an impressive target and catch radius

What Combine Measurements DON'T Tell You About A Player's Jump Ball Ability:

1) Timing - What good is all the leaping ability in the world if you can't time your jumps? The ball doesn't arrive when a player decides to jump, it's up to the WR to anticipate both WHEN and WHERE the football will be. No drill can measure this, only game-tape can... and the game tape shows DGB having good timing on jump balls.

2) POSITIONING - WHY do former basketball players tend to become excellent receiving options in the NFL? Because basketball sport that teaches and is based staying in front and maneuvering yourself into better position than your opponent, whether that be posting up and playing with your back to the bucket, boxing out for a rebound, both of which involve the player "making himself big". A lack of an excellent vertical can be mitigated a lot by a player with excellent feel for positioning that knows how to use his size.

3) GIRTH vs HEIGHT (And Both) - When a WR and a DB both go up for a jump ball, mutual body contact is allowed. A CB who is getting out-muscled and bodied up with the ball in the air is probably not going to be getting his hands on the ball or be under control. Even an elite press CB like Richard Sherman can't contend with Kelvin Benjamin when he had position on him with that size.

4) CONCENTRATION: Still have to catch the ball. DGB has proven he can high point the ball and is a natural hands catcher.


It's amazing to me how people try to over-simplify everything for themselves. If it were THAT easy to find out who the best players were based on stats and combine results, they would hold the draft the day after and the players with the best measurables get drafted first in exact order, and almost always become better pro's.

There is a reason why guys like Anquan Boldin and Hakeem Nicks (6-1 and 6-2) have been very solid jump ball WR's their whole careers, while guys like Dwayne Jarrett and Stephen Hill (Both 6-4 with long arms) have been terrible.
Originally posted by xcfan:
in a heartbeat.

i am done with the off-the-field idiocy we've been suffering through.

Where are these "blemish free" prospects that you speak of? And why would they last to pick #15 if they were indeed blemish free?

The only other guys I would personally consider with the pick who will REALISTICALLY be available have significant blemishes.

Trae Waynes is a pipe dream after the combine he had. The other CB's who might be worthy of the pick (Jalen Collins, Marcus Peters) are either not suited to defend the run very well - something SF has always prided its CB's on - or are equally as big of character risks.

Arik Armstead is pure potential at this point, 2.5 sacks is abysmal production give his size and perceived athleticism... playing in a pass happy conference and with a lead all the time, meaning he had PLENTY of opportunity.

Malcolm Brown might be a safer pick, but provides little in the way of pass rush, and is not a "special" prospect. NT is also not a glaring need, though I wouldn't mind if Danny Shelton fell to us, because he IS special.

I don't think Davante Parker would be on the board, but even if he IS, there are questions about his suddenness and ability to separate downfield.
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