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OTC's Quick-Pick Mock Premiere 11/23/13

Originally posted by Kolohe:
I think he went overkill too, they like Dobbs and TJE a lot and with Carradine and Dial waiting in the wings that's a full house. Let's also not forget about their real project in Lawrence Okoye. If anything they'll probably spend a middle round pick and bring in undrafted rookie free agents to develop or compete.

Justin Smith
Ray McDonald
Ian Williams
Glenn Dorsey
Tony Jerrod-Eddie
DeMarcus Dobbs
Tank Carradine
Quinton Dial
Mike Purcell
Lawrence Okoye
.....added draft pick

All should be back at least in Preseason, that's a lot of D-lineman coming back.

It's easy to say it's overkill until you face a couple injuries and/or a player or two severely underperforming. A lot of the great teams load up at positions and let the players duke it out to separate the best of the best from the crop. "Decent" is nice, but if you can have depth players that are so good they could start, that's the kind of cast you want to create on your team, with role players here and there.

The goal is to build a championship team, a consistent winner. You don't do that by sticking with just "decent."

For what it's worth, the team has plenty of firepower to move around and get exactly the impact players they want. It'd be hard to imagine Baalke actually keeping all these picks.
just watched Glibert in Tampa over the weekend
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
It's easy to say it's overkill until you face a couple injuries and/or a player or two severely underperforming. A lot of the great teams load up at positions and let the players duke it out to separate the best of the best from the crop. "Decent" is nice, but if you can have depth players that are so good they could start, that's the kind of cast you want to create on your team, with role players here and there.

The goal is to build a championship team, a consistent winner. You don't do that by sticking with just "decent."

For what it's worth, the team has plenty of firepower to move around and get exactly the impact players they want. It'd be hard to imagine Baalke actually keeping all these picks.

Agreed. This league boils down to the passing game. How great would it be to have a talented, young rotation of guys that can get to the QB? You can never have too much of a dominant pass rush.
+2, I absolutely love Justin Smith and hope he has another year of dominating football for next season but we Absolutely need to add a dominating NT or DE to the lineup, our defense depends on our front 3 or 4 getting penetration and holding the point of contact for the LB to play the run and also get to the QB.

WR, CB, DE/NT, OT, WR, CB/SS

Should be our draft priority!!!
Originally posted by Kolohe:
I think he went overkill too, they like Dobbs and TJE a lot and with Carradine and Dial waiting in the wings that's a full house. Let's also not forget about their real project in Lawrence Okoye. If anything they'll probably spend a middle round pick and bring in undrafted rookie free agents to develop or compete.

Justin Smith
Ray McDonald
Ian Williams
Glenn Dorsey
Tony Jerrod-Eddie
DeMarcus Dobbs
Tank Carradine
Quinton Dial
Mike Purcell
Lawrence Okoye
.....added draft pick

All should be back at least in Preseason, that's a lot of D-lineman coming back.

Okoye is a project and that could be very well all that he will ever be. His chances of making it onto an actual NFL roster aren't good.. He's got potential but there's no guarantee of anything, just like with guys like Carradine and Dial.


Dobbs and Jerod-Eddie haven't done anything to impress, they're cheap depth, nothing more. If Justin Smith were to go down again, this team defense would be screwed once more. Smith is aging, McDonald is seemingly always dinged up and his performance has suffered a lot as a result, Ian Williams is coming off an ACL injury, Dorsey has one year left on his deal, beyond that, what do the 49ers have? Teams continue to gash them up the middle, time and time again. It certainly isn't because they are lacking at the LB position.


They most certainly need another DE, somewhere early in the draft, even if Carradine pans out they could be looking to replace two DE's in the next few years. If McDonald hangs on then having a starter-quality backup at DE hasn't hurt any team the last time I checked. Defensive linemen also take time to develop, especially at NT, its better to plan ahead early, draft guys before you really need them.



"Decent" just doesn't cut it. If there's one position you want to rack up starter quality depth at, it is the DL.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Nov 25, 2013 at 3:46 PM ]
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
McCullers is about 6'8", 360, you can't even compare the two in terms of the amount of space they occupy. He won't do much for the pass rush, but he would be a tremendous guy to have to stop the run up the middle which the 49ers once more have not been able to do. Other teams utilize monster-sized NT's which has been effective, 49ers utilize smaller NT's that only work well when the DE's are playing at a very high level such as in 2011, its time for them to find a permanent solution at that spot. McCullers is a guy who you can develop, that teams would seldomly be able to stop with a single blocker.


Like I said, there's absolutely no guarantees on Dial, he's a project at this point who will need to be developed, beyond that, Dorsey is a free agent after next season and while Dobbs and Jerod-Eddie might have been "decent", it might be a good idea to add some players who are a notch above "decent" to prevent the sort of drop off that has been seen without McDonald in the lineup.

If the 49ers had drafted Kendall Reyes in 2011 instead of Jenkins, along with Carradine, they'd have plenty of depth at DE, but alas they didn't and I'm thinking they need to add at least one more high quality DE for the long haul and an NT to compete for the spot and be developed as the long term solution.

McCullers is not as good as you're making him out to be. I've seem him in person and watched most of his games this year. He has great length but he's very slow and has poor techinique. Dial may not be as big as McCullers but he doesn't need to be. He has the techinique and explosiveness to shed blocks and manage the double team. Maybe McCullers can do it aswell in thw NFL but I think his lack of speed and techinique will expose him against NFL interior olines. Dial has the ideal size and he also has the versatility to play in the 4-2. McCuller is very very raw and hes only ever going to be a NT. We already have Williams and Dorsey. 3 roster spots for 1 position ia far from ideal and I really hope we dont use an early rounder one.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
I think he went overkill too, they like Dobbs and TJE a lot and with Carradine and Dial waiting in the wings that's a full house. Let's also not forget about their real project in Lawrence Okoye. If anything they'll probably spend a middle round pick and bring in undrafted rookie free agents to develop or compete.

Justin Smith
Ray McDonald
Ian Williams
Glenn Dorsey
Tony Jerrod-Eddie
DeMarcus Dobbs
Tank Carradine
Quinton Dial
Mike Purcell
Lawrence Okoye
.....added draft pick

All should be back at least in Preseason, that's a lot of D-lineman coming back.

Okoye is a project and that could be very well all that he will ever be. His chances of making it onto an actual NFL roster aren't good.. He's got potential but there's no guarantee of anything, just like with guys like Carradine and Dial.


Dobbs and Jerod-Eddie haven't done anything to impress, they're cheap depth, nothing more. If Justin Smith were to go down again, this team defense would be screwed once more. Smith is aging, McDonald is seemingly always dinged up and his performance has suffered a lot as a result, Ian Williams is coming off an ACL injury, Dorsey has one year left on his deal, beyond that, what do the 49ers have? Teams continue to gash them up the middle, time and time again. It certainly isn't because they are lacking at the LB position.


They most certainly need another DE, somewhere early in the draft, even if Carradine pans out they could be looking to replace two DE's in the next few years. If McDonald hangs on then having a starter-quality backup at DE hasn't hurt any team the last time I checked. Defensive linemen also take time to develop, especially at NT, its better to plan ahead early, draft guys before you really need them.



"Decent" just doesn't cut it. If there's one position you want to rack up starter quality depth at, it is the DL.

Basically the exact same sentiments I indicated earlier. I will not tolerate the team settling for "decent" when we have more than enough draft-pick firepower to move and get the exact impact players we want. Let the truly developmental guys we already have, continue to develop, but use the picks -- the precious chess pieces we currently have -- to minimize the volume of long-term projects we're taking on, and go out and get IMPACT PLAYERS. CONTRIBUTORS.

This team has too much talent -- and too much to lose if God forbid we suffer an injury at one key spot or more -- for us to NOT stock up at any of the key positions we can. We need to field a stacked team from top to bottom, unit to unit, with the best of the best. Decent is only acceptable to an extent. Championship teams look to replace "decent" with someone better than that, piece by piece, on their way to creating a consistent winner.
...
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Nov 25, 2013 at 7:15 PM ]
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
I think he went overkill too, they like Dobbs and TJE a lot and with Carradine and Dial waiting in the wings that's a full house. Let's also not forget about their real project in Lawrence Okoye. If anything they'll probably spend a middle round pick and bring in undrafted rookie free agents to develop or compete.

Justin Smith
Ray McDonald
Ian Williams
Glenn Dorsey
Tony Jerrod-Eddie
DeMarcus Dobbs
Tank Carradine
Quinton Dial
Mike Purcell
Lawrence Okoye
.....added draft pick

All should be back at least in Preseason, that's a lot of D-lineman coming back.

Okoye is a project and that could be very well all that he will ever be. His chances of making it onto an actual NFL roster aren't good.. He's got potential but there's no guarantee of anything, just like with guys like Carradine and Dial.


Dobbs and Jerod-Eddie haven't done anything to impress, they're cheap depth, nothing more. If Justin Smith were to go down again, this team defense would be screwed once more. Smith is aging, McDonald is seemingly always dinged up and his performance has suffered a lot as a result, Ian Williams is coming off an ACL injury, Dorsey has one year left on his deal, beyond that, what do the 49ers have? Teams continue to gash them up the middle, time and time again. It certainly isn't because they are lacking at the LB position.


They most certainly need another DE, somewhere early in the draft, even if Carradine pans out they could be looking to replace two DE's in the next few years. If McDonald hangs on then having a starter-quality backup at DE hasn't hurt any team the last time I checked. Defensive linemen also take time to develop, especially at NT, its better to plan ahead early, draft guys before you really need them.



"Decent" just doesn't cut it. If there's one position you want to rack up starter quality depth at, it is the DL.

No way should we take 3 DL Phoenix. Carradine, Justin, Ray, Dorsey, and Ian are all likely locks, and Dial should be. Only room for 1 DL, and he wont play.

I agree Okoye is a project, may never play. Dobbs and TJE are average at best. I dont see where a high round DL pick fits in, maybe in the future. McDonald is signed thru 2015. He isn't going anywhere. Dorsey and Justin aren't going anywhere either. I would extend Dorsey when time is right.

If we take a DL high, it better be a versatile guy. We dont use a traditional NT, and likely wont in the future.
If we take a DL high, it better be a versatile
guy. We dont use a traditional NT, and likely
wont in the future.

Versatile u say hhmmm maybe Stephon Tuitt 6'6 315 lbs ??? Im sure he can play any where on our line...
Originally posted by AB81Rules:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
I think he went overkill too, they like Dobbs and TJE a lot and with Carradine and Dial waiting in the wings that's a full house. Let's also not forget about their real project in Lawrence Okoye. If anything they'll probably spend a middle round pick and bring in undrafted rookie free agents to develop or compete.

Justin Smith
Ray McDonald
Ian Williams
Glenn Dorsey
Tony Jerrod-Eddie
DeMarcus Dobbs
Tank Carradine
Quinton Dial
Mike Purcell
Lawrence Okoye
.....added draft pick

All should be back at least in Preseason, that's a lot of D-lineman coming back.

Okoye is a project and that could be very well all that he will ever be. His chances of making it onto an actual NFL roster aren't good.. He's got potential but there's no guarantee of anything, just like with guys like Carradine and Dial.


Dobbs and Jerod-Eddie haven't done anything to impress, they're cheap depth, nothing more. If Justin Smith were to go down again, this team defense would be screwed once more. Smith is aging, McDonald is seemingly always dinged up and his performance has suffered a lot as a result, Ian Williams is coming off an ACL injury, Dorsey has one year left on his deal, beyond that, what do the 49ers have? Teams continue to gash them up the middle, time and time again. It certainly isn't because they are lacking at the LB position.


They most certainly need another DE, somewhere early in the draft, even if Carradine pans out they could be looking to replace two DE's in the next few years. If McDonald hangs on then having a starter-quality backup at DE hasn't hurt any team the last time I checked. Defensive linemen also take time to develop, especially at NT, its better to plan ahead early, draft guys before you really need them.



"Decent" just doesn't cut it. If there's one position you want to rack up starter quality depth at, it is the DL.

No way should we take 3 DL Phoenix. Carradine, Justin, Ray, Dorsey, and Ian are all likely locks, and Dial should be. Only room for 1 DL, and he wont play.

I agree Okoye is a project, may never play. Dobbs and TJE are average at best. I dont see where a high round DL pick fits in, maybe in the future. McDonald is signed thru 2015. He isn't going anywhere. Dorsey and Justin aren't going anywhere either. I would extend Dorsey when time is right.

If we take a DL high, it better be a versatile guy. We dont use a traditional NT, and likely wont in the future.

Guys, I have to respectfully disagree. It's never a bad thing to have "too many talented players" -- worst case scenario? You wind up with some extremely valuable chips to move to help fill any other voids that might be present. It's all part of an intricate strategy for sustained success.
The defensive line could be in flux going into the draft. There are so many questions that have to be answered in the last 1/3 of the season, the playoffs, and in the offseason. I'm with OTC in that you can never have too many talented players on a roster or in one position group. Think about our LB corps going into this year. The Niners arguably had the best starting LB's in the NFL and they added Skuta in Free Agency and Lemonier in the draft which was really smart in retrospect.

I think that the Niners have to monitor the development of the younger guys (TJE, Carradine and Dial), see how well the guys recover from injuries (Williams and RayMac), and how the veterans continue to play when it counts (Dorsey and Cowboy) before they get into the draft. The Niners and Baalke have all the ammunition to make whatever moves necessary to continue to get better.
[ Edited by m_brockalexander on Nov 25, 2013 at 8:48 PM ]
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Guys, I have to respectfully disagree. It's never a bad thing to have "too many talented players" -- worst case scenario? You wind up with some extremely valuable chips to move to help fill any other voids that might be present. It's all part of an intricate strategy for sustained success.

Actualy the worst that could happen is you have to cut some draft picks because you can only carry so many DLs. You dont want to cut productive rotational players for rookies that are not nearly ready for the trenches. We already have Okoye, Dial, and Carradine in the incubator. Sorry we dont need anymore guys taking snaps from them and especially not 3 guys.
Originally posted by eonblue:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Guys, I have to respectfully disagree. It's never a bad thing to have "too many talented players" -- worst case scenario? You wind up with some extremely valuable chips to move to help fill any other voids that might be present. It's all part of an intricate strategy for sustained success.

Actualy the worst that could happen is you have to cut some draft picks because you can only carry so many DLs. You dont want to cut productive rotational players for rookies that are not nearly ready for the trenches. We already have Okoye, Dial, and Carradine in the incubator. Sorry we dont need anymore guys taking snaps from them and especially not 3 guys.

But we do need more guys to help give others a break before tha last 2 mins of a game.. besides no one knows if okoye will work out hes never played football frm what ive read...
Originally posted by eonblue:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Guys, I have to respectfully disagree. It's never a bad thing to have "too many talented players" -- worst case scenario? You wind up with some extremely valuable chips to move to help fill any other voids that might be present. It's all part of an intricate strategy for sustained success.

Actualy the worst that could happen is you have to cut some draft picks because you can only carry so many DLs. You dont want to cut productive rotational players for rookies that are not nearly ready for the trenches. We already have Okoye, Dial, and Carradine in the incubator. Sorry we dont need anymore guys taking snaps from them and especially not 3 guys.

That's the point -- if they're not ready and don't deserve to be on the team, they're going to get cut anyway. If they can't beat out or compete with the incumbents, why did you draft them to begin with? You don't draft scrubs. You draft UPGRADES. The Patriots are consistent winners because of this exact strategy. They load up and let the best men win.

The 49ers have done this to an extent with some positions. With so many picks, I don't see us sitting on all of them. If we really want a championship-caliber team, we will look to move directly into position to secure the player upgrades we want at each position we target.

I don't include trades typically in my mocks, so this is purely hypothetical if we kept all picks, which is very unlikely. So keep this in mind..