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OTC's Quick-Pick Mock Premiere 11/23/13

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by GEEK:
Hmm...Lyon, Long, Hurns...someone's been peaking at my mock

You went D-line overkill in this draft. I see Dial as a replacement for Dobbs, and Carradine as a replacement for TJE. And we have Ian Williams returning in 2014. There is no way we will take 3 DL within the first 5 rounds after last year's draft.

Lee, Gilbert, Dixon, and Larsen picks are spot on. Sub Mauro with another CB, and McCullers with another WR, and I think you can get a nice ratio of need vs. value.

And great minds think alike - i love the pipeline for 2015 with Lyon, Long, and Hurns.

I disagree with it being overkill. People keep talking about Dial like he's guaranteed to stick around, truthfully, nobody knows what he can do. McDonald is falling apart, literally, he's been injury ridden and there is no guarantee that he will remain healthy for the long term. Justin Smith is up there in years, who knows how many more he can play? As far as NT goes, Williams looked good in the preseason, solid in the regular season but who is to say that the 49ers can't find someone better in the draft? I think DL is incredibly important and the 49ers DL strength is largely a mirage right now, they're tip-toeing around on glass, without a lot of real depth. Neither Dobbs nor Jerod-Eddie appear to be long term solutions.


I would like to see one more quality DE added and another prospect at NT, a big body that can develop into a starter long term.

You can simply never have too many big uglys. On the offensive side or the defensive side.
Originally posted by NeonNiner:
Originally posted by m_brockalexander:
My only question is whether or not Marquise Lee will actually be available at #24 and who would be the alternatives?

I think the Jets, Ravens, Cowboys, Giants, and Steelers also have a major need at WR so I think Lee will be long gone by that pick. Which of the following 2nd tier WR's would you take?

Allen Robinson Penn St
Odell Beckham Jr. LSU
Jordan Matthews Vanderbilt
Brandin Cooks Oregon St.
Jarvis Landry LSU
Brandon Coleman Rutgers
Donte Moncrief Ole Miss

Nice work on the overall mock. Like the Mauro pick the most. Guy plays in a rotation with the Cardinal, but is good enough on his own to be a base end for the Niners.

You do know we have enough ammo to trade up for Lee if we wanted to right?

But to answer the question, my favorite 2nd tier WRs are: Beckham Jr, Cooks, and Landry.

I get that but there was no mention of a trade up in the mock. My choice would be either Robinson, Beckham or Moncrief at # 22.
Originally posted by m_brockalexander:
Originally posted by NeonNiner:
Originally posted by m_brockalexander:
My only question is whether or not Marquise Lee will actually be available at #24 and who would be the alternatives?

I think the Jets, Ravens, Cowboys, Giants, and Steelers also have a major need at WR so I think Lee will be long gone by that pick. Which of the following 2nd tier WR's would you take?

Allen Robinson Penn St
Odell Beckham Jr. LSU
Jordan Matthews Vanderbilt
Brandin Cooks Oregon St.
Jarvis Landry LSU
Brandon Coleman Rutgers
Donte Moncrief Ole Miss

Nice work on the overall mock. Like the Mauro pick the most. Guy plays in a rotation with the Cardinal, but is good enough on his own to be a base end for the Niners.

You do know we have enough ammo to trade up for Lee if we wanted to right?

But to answer the question, my favorite 2nd tier WRs are: Beckham Jr, Cooks, and Landry.

I get that but there was no mention of a trade up in the mock. My choice would be either Robinson, Beckham or Moncrief at # 22.

Personally at that spot, i would take a CB or S,(obviously i think its well documented i want Roby in the first he may not make it that far though) then move up into the top of the second for a WR. Mathews or Cooks would be my personal choices. I personally would not take either of the three you mention at #22. But thats my personal opinion.
  • GEEK
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 17,124
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by GEEK:
Hmm...Lyon, Long, Hurns...someone's been peaking at my mock

You went D-line overkill in this draft. I see Dial as a replacement for Dobbs, and Carradine as a replacement for TJE. And we have Ian Williams returning in 2014. There is no way we will take 3 DL within the first 5 rounds after last year's draft.

Lee, Gilbert, Dixon, and Larsen picks are spot on. Sub Mauro with another CB, and McCullers with another WR, and I think you can get a nice ratio of need vs. value.

And great minds think alike - i love the pipeline for 2015 with Lyon, Long, and Hurns.

I disagree with it being overkill. People keep talking about Dial like he's guaranteed to stick around, truthfully, nobody knows what he can do. McDonald is falling apart, literally, he's been injury ridden and there is no guarantee that he will remain healthy for the long term. Justin Smith is up there in years, who knows how many more he can play? As far as NT goes, Williams looked good in the preseason, solid in the regular season but who is to say that the 49ers can't find someone better in the draft? I think DL is incredibly important and the 49ers DL strength is largely a mirage right now, they're tip-toeing around on glass, without a lot of real depth. Neither Dobbs nor Jerod-Eddie appear to be long term solutions.


I would like to see one more quality DE added and another prospect at NT, a big body that can develop into a starter long term.

You can simply never have too many big uglys. On the offensive side or the defensive side.

Ray McDonald has missed 2 games over the past 3 seasons. And McDonald turned 29 in September. He isn't as brittle as people make him out to be. Look for a rotational player? Yes. Look for an immediate replacement? Overkill.

I compare Ian Williams to Tramaine Brock. Underdog story that has showed progressive improvement over the past couple of years, and looked VERY good in regular season playing time. And both were extended in 2013 to multi-year deals. There's no doubt in my mind that the 49ers will remain committed to him in 2014.

I absolutely agree that we need to look for Justin Smith's replacement in the draft. And I'm perfectly fine with a guy like Ed Stinson from Alabama in the 2nd round to develop. But we also drafted Tank Carradine last year in the 2nd round that can be used behind Ray McDonald.

So I don't see the need to go DE again in the 3rd round, especially when in this mock OTC waits until the 7th round to select another wide receiver.
Originally posted by GEEK:
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by GEEK:
Hmm...Lyon, Long, Hurns...someone's been peaking at my mock

You went D-line overkill in this draft. I see Dial as a replacement for Dobbs, and Carradine as a replacement for TJE. And we have Ian Williams returning in 2014. There is no way we will take 3 DL within the first 5 rounds after last year's draft.

Lee, Gilbert, Dixon, and Larsen picks are spot on. Sub Mauro with another CB, and McCullers with another WR, and I think you can get a nice ratio of need vs. value.

And great minds think alike - i love the pipeline for 2015 with Lyon, Long, and Hurns.

I disagree with it being overkill. People keep talking about Dial like he's guaranteed to stick around, truthfully, nobody knows what he can do. McDonald is falling apart, literally, he's been injury ridden and there is no guarantee that he will remain healthy for the long term. Justin Smith is up there in years, who knows how many more he can play? As far as NT goes, Williams looked good in the preseason, solid in the regular season but who is to say that the 49ers can't find someone better in the draft? I think DL is incredibly important and the 49ers DL strength is largely a mirage right now, they're tip-toeing around on glass, without a lot of real depth. Neither Dobbs nor Jerod-Eddie appear to be long term solutions.


I would like to see one more quality DE added and another prospect at NT, a big body that can develop into a starter long term.

You can simply never have too many big uglys. On the offensive side or the defensive side.

Ray McDonald has missed 2 games over the past 3 seasons. And McDonald turned 29 in September. He isn't as brittle as people make him out to be. Look for a rotational player? Yes. Look for an immediate replacement? Overkill.

I compare Ian Williams to Tramaine Brock. Underdog story that has showed progressive improvement over the past couple of years, and looked VERY good in regular season playing time. And both were extended in 2013 to multi-year deals. There's no doubt in my mind that the 49ers will remain committed to him in 2014.

I absolutely agree that we need to look for Justin Smith's replacement in the draft. And I'm perfectly fine with a guy like Ed Stinson from Alabama in the 2nd round to develop. But we also drafted Tank Carradine last year in the 2nd round that can be used behind Ray McDonald.

So I don't see the need to go DE again in the 3rd round, especially when in this mock OTC waits until the 7th round to select another wide receiver.

I agree we dont need replacements right away, but Dlineman take time to develop. But i also agree, there are probably more pressing needs in this draft and some of the slots players are selected in this draft could probably be swapped around. Not gonna get the same players obviously. I agree with both of you basically. I personally see WR and secondary as the two biggest needs followed by Oline and Dline. I feel we should go heavy drafting a couple of each in all 4 categories.
Originally posted by GEEK:
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by GEEK:
Hmm...Lyon, Long, Hurns...someone's been peaking at my mock

You went D-line overkill in this draft. I see Dial as a replacement for Dobbs, and Carradine as a replacement for TJE. And we have Ian Williams returning in 2014. There is no way we will take 3 DL within the first 5 rounds after last year's draft.

Lee, Gilbert, Dixon, and Larsen picks are spot on. Sub Mauro with another CB, and McCullers with another WR, and I think you can get a nice ratio of need vs. value.

And great minds think alike - i love the pipeline for 2015 with Lyon, Long, and Hurns.

I disagree with it being overkill. People keep talking about Dial like he's guaranteed to stick around, truthfully, nobody knows what he can do. McDonald is falling apart, literally, he's been injury ridden and there is no guarantee that he will remain healthy for the long term. Justin Smith is up there in years, who knows how many more he can play? As far as NT goes, Williams looked good in the preseason, solid in the regular season but who is to say that the 49ers can't find someone better in the draft? I think DL is incredibly important and the 49ers DL strength is largely a mirage right now, they're tip-toeing around on glass, without a lot of real depth. Neither Dobbs nor Jerod-Eddie appear to be long term solutions.


I would like to see one more quality DE added and another prospect at NT, a big body that can develop into a starter long term.

You can simply never have too many big uglys. On the offensive side or the defensive side.

Ray McDonald has missed 2 games over the past 3 seasons. And McDonald turned 29 in September. He isn't as brittle as people make him out to be. Look for a rotational player? Yes. Look for an immediate replacement? Overkill.

I compare Ian Williams to Tramaine Brock. Underdog story that has showed progressive improvement over the past couple of years, and looked VERY good in regular season playing time. And both were extended in 2013 to multi-year deals. There's no doubt in my mind that the 49ers will remain committed to him in 2014.

I absolutely agree that we need to look for Justin Smith's replacement in the draft. And I'm perfectly fine with a guy like Ed Stinson from Alabama in the 2nd round to develop. But we also drafted Tank Carradine last year in the 2nd round that can be used behind Ray McDonald.

So I don't see the need to go DE again in the 3rd round, especially when in this mock OTC waits until the 7th round to select another wide receiver.

Im all for D-line early pass rush help is alway a great thing to have but if we do it in tha 2nd round id rather go after stephon Tuitt 6'6 315 lbs i think he could play anywhere on tha line....
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by mayo49:
I like your Lee pick. I prefer him over Watkins. Keep up the good work.

Personally, I think Watkins is the better player, but we'd have to give up too much for him. And the value we'd get if we can bolster other positions makes more sense. At the same time, we have too many picks to use them all. On this good of a team, I expect us to target all the top players we feel can contribute right away. I think primarily we need to focus on the following, in order:

1. WR
2. SS (If Whitner leaves)
3. DE
4. CB
5. Interior OL
6. NT

Its time that 9ers go for it and GET Watkins and be done with it I'm tired of them playing with snot,talking about giving up too much hell they have 2-2nds and 3 3rds hell they can trade positions with their first and give up a 2nd and maybe a 3rd.to move up and that WILL not hurt us AT ALL ..make the deal Baalke.
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by mayo49:
I like your Lee pick. I prefer him over Watkins. Keep up the good work.

Personally, I think Watkins is the better player, but we'd have to give up too much for him. And the value we'd get if we can bolster other positions makes more sense. At the same time, we have too many picks to use them all. On this good of a team, I expect us to target all the top players we feel can contribute right away. I think primarily we need to focus on the following, in order:

1. WR
2. SS (If Whitner leaves)
3. DE
4. CB
5. Interior OL
6. NT

Its time that 9ers go for it and GET Watkins and be done with it I'm tired of them playing with snot,talking about giving up too much hell they have 2-2nds and 3 3rds hell they can trade positions with their first and give up a 2nd and maybe a 3rd.to move up and that WILL not hurt us AT ALL ..make the deal Baalke.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Matthews, Beckham or Moncrief.

nice except watkins for Matthew...Beckham is very nice He comes from very athletic parents his mom is a former track star and she has some guns on her I mean she could grag you and slang you down and Dad played football too so yeah I would not be mad at all if we got Beckham
Originally posted by m_brockalexander:
I get that but there was no mention of a trade up in the mock. My choice would be either Robinson, Beckham or Moncrief at # 22.

Ohhhhh okay. Yeah, then I would agree we would have to trade up for Lee if we really wanted him.


Originally posted by jrouter4949:
Its time that 9ers go for it and GET Watkins and be done with it I'm tired of them playing with snot,talking about giving up too much hell they have 2-2nds and 3 3rds hell they can trade positions with their first and give up a 2nd and maybe a 3rd.to move up and that WILL not hurt us AT ALL ..make the deal Baalke.

Sammy Watkins is by far the most impressive WR coming out of this draft. We have to ammo to trade up for him and I'd be 100% A-Ok with that because he's one of those talents that is worth it and would give our offense the boost we need. However, if Baalke opted not to give up that much, there is still plenty of WR talent left. Lee, Odell Beckham Jr, Jarvis Landry, Jordan Matthews, Brandin Cooks, Moncrief, Coleman....taking 1 or 2 WRs from this list would give us a complete WR core. Baalke just cannot afford not another AJJ type blunder.
I like Stinson but what you're saying is we need to pick up a developmental DE because McDonald and Smith may seem a sharp drop off soon. The thing is that they will still be starters next year but.Dobbs, TJE, Dial, Williams, Tank, and Dorsey will all rotate to keep them fresh. Even Aldon could rotat inside on pass rushing downs.


TJE and Dobbs have actually been decent within their limited roles. Dorsey, Dial, and Tank are going to be another year in the system and I have feeling we will get alot of productiin out of them.

I just don't think we need another 3-4 DE that early. I also don't think we need McCullers when we have a clogger in Dial. Ive seen Dial play and he can do everything McCullers does except he has a fast twitch aspect.to his game. Dial is the NT everyone thinks we need but we just have to be patient.

Loved the Lee, Gilbert, and Dixon picks. Lee is exactly the type of receiver we need. Whoever we pick has to be fast enough to win on the corner. His release has to be quick enough to get open on a slant. They also have to be natural runners after the catch. Lee is that guy but i doubt he's still on the board when we pick. Worth the trade up tho.
  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 9,653
Originally posted by m_brockalexander:
My only question is whether or not Marquise Lee will actually be available at #24 and who would be the alternatives?

USC junior Marqise Lee


- USC junior WR Marqise Lee believes there are still areas of his game that need improvement before leaving for the NFL.

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/45339/300/draft-buzz-underclassmen
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by m_brockalexander:
My only question is whether or not Marquise Lee will actually be available at #24 and who would be the alternatives?

USC junior Marqise Lee


- USC junior WR Marqise Lee believes there are still areas of his game that need improvement before leaving for the NFL.

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/45339/300/draft-buzz-underclassmen
Good thing he sees it because he hasn't impressed me this year. I'd rather have Allen Robinson.
Originally posted by GEEK:
Ray McDonald has missed 2 games over the past 3 seasons. And McDonald turned 29 in September. He isn't as brittle as people make him out to be. Look for a rotational player? Yes. Look for an immediate replacement? Overkill.

I compare Ian Williams to Tramaine Brock. Underdog story that has showed progressive improvement over the past couple of years, and looked VERY good in regular season playing time. And both were extended in 2013 to multi-year deals. There's no doubt in my mind that the 49ers will remain committed to him in 2014.

I absolutely agree that we need to look for Justin Smith's replacement in the draft. And I'm perfectly fine with a guy like Ed Stinson from Alabama in the 2nd round to develop. But we also drafted Tank Carradine last year in the 2nd round that can be used behind Ray McDonald.

So I don't see the need to go DE again in the 3rd round, especially when in this mock OTC waits until the 7th round to select another wide receiver.

He's missed 2 games but he's been largely beat up, realistically if the 49ers had some other depth at DE, he probably should have shut it down after his biceps tear because there's no way you can claim that he has been at all affective. Its not the case where a guy gets an ACL tear and misses a season, its a situation where a guy is continually beat up and unable to perform at a maximum level as a result. Neither McDonald nor Smith have played up to the level they were at in 2011. If you look at this team with the hybrid sort of defense they play and the amount of 4-3 looks they give, having more defensive lineman is crucial.


I do think if nothing else, DE and NT both are worth looking at it in the draft, additional young DL depth never hurt any team. Because defensive linemen, especially NT's, can take some time to develop, its better to acquire them early than to try to replace them on a dime.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Nov 25, 2013 at 7:34 AM ]
Originally posted by eonblue:
I like Stinson but what you're saying is we need to pick up a developmental DE because McDonald and Smith may seem a sharp drop off soon. The thing is that they will still be starters next year but.Dobbs, TJE, Dial, Williams, Tank, and Dorsey will all rotate to keep them fresh. Even Aldon could rotat inside on pass rushing downs.


TJE and Dobbs have actually been decent within their limited roles. Dorsey, Dial, and Tank are going to be another year in the system and I have feeling we will get alot of productiin out of them.

I just don't think we need another 3-4 DE that early. I also don't think we need McCullers when we have a clogger in Dial. Ive seen Dial play and he can do everything McCullers does except he has a fast twitch aspect.to his game. Dial is the NT everyone thinks we need but we just have to be patient.

Loved the Lee, Gilbert, and Dixon picks. Lee is exactly the type of receiver we need. Whoever we pick has to be fast enough to win on the corner. His release has to be quick enough to get open on a slant. They also have to be natural runners after the catch. Lee is that guy but i doubt he's still on the board when we pick. Worth the trade up tho.

McCullers is about 6'8", 360, you can't even compare the two in terms of the amount of space they occupy. He won't do much for the pass rush, but he would be a tremendous guy to have to stop the run up the middle which the 49ers once more have not been able to do. Other teams utilize monster-sized NT's which has been effective, 49ers utilize smaller NT's that only work well when the DE's are playing at a very high level such as in 2011, its time for them to find a permanent solution at that spot. McCullers is a guy who you can develop, that teams would seldomly be able to stop with a single blocker.


Like I said, there's absolutely no guarantees on Dial, he's a project at this point who will need to be developed, beyond that, Dorsey is a free agent after next season and while Dobbs and Jerod-Eddie might have been "decent", it might be a good idea to add some players who are a notch above "decent" to prevent the sort of drop off that has been seen without McDonald in the lineup.

If the 49ers had drafted Kendall Reyes in 2011 instead of Jenkins, along with Carradine, they'd have plenty of depth at DE, but alas they didn't and I'm thinking they need to add at least one more high quality DE for the long haul and an NT to compete for the spot and be developed as the long term solution.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Nov 25, 2013 at 7:41 AM ]
  • Kolohe
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 31,136
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by GEEK:
Hmm...Lyon, Long, Hurns...someone's been peaking at my mock

You went D-line overkill in this draft. I see Dial as a replacement for Dobbs, and Carradine as a replacement for TJE. And we have Ian Williams returning in 2014. There is no way we will take 3 DL within the first 5 rounds after last year's draft.

Lee, Gilbert, Dixon, and Larsen picks are spot on. Sub Mauro with another CB, and McCullers with another WR, and I think you can get a nice ratio of need vs. value.

And great minds think alike - i love the pipeline for 2015 with Lyon, Long, and Hurns.

I disagree with it being overkill. People keep talking about Dial like he's guaranteed to stick around, truthfully, nobody knows what he can do. McDonald is falling apart, literally, he's been injury ridden and there is no guarantee that he will remain healthy for the long term. Justin Smith is up there in years, who knows how many more he can play? As far as NT goes, Williams looked good in the preseason, solid in the regular season but who is to say that the 49ers can't find someone better in the draft? I think DL is incredibly important and the 49ers DL strength is largely a mirage right now, they're tip-toeing around on glass, without a lot of real depth. Neither Dobbs nor Jerod-Eddie appear to be long term solutions.


I would like to see one more quality DE added and another prospect at NT, a big body that can develop into a starter long term.

I think he went overkill too, they like Dobbs and TJE a lot and with Carradine and Dial waiting in the wings that's a full house. Let's also not forget about their real project in Lawrence Okoye. If anything they'll probably spend a middle round pick and bring in undrafted rookie free agents to develop or compete.

Justin Smith
Ray McDonald
Ian Williams
Glenn Dorsey
Tony Jerrod-Eddie
DeMarcus Dobbs
Tank Carradine
Quinton Dial
Mike Purcell
Lawrence Okoye
.....added draft pick

All should be back at least in Preseason, that's a lot of D-lineman coming back.