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Darqueze Dennard-CB-Michigan State

  • KRS-1
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 27,056
Originally posted by VPofCarnage:
He's never covering anyone better than a decent college-lever receiver, so he looks like a shut-down guy.

This is an assanine argument. Like Roby was covering better receivers ? Dennard fared better by far and large against those "decent college-level" receivers.
Originally posted by KRS-1:
This is an assanine argument. Like Roby was covering better receivers ? Dennard fared better by far and large against those "decent college-level" receivers.

His logic confuses me as Michigan State and Ohio are both in the Big 10 and played a lot of the same teams. Dennard basically shut down Ty Montgomery in the Rose Bowl too.
No matter what we think Baalke will take his #1 CB pick...and to do that he is going to have to climb higher than he did for Reid ...15 slots. Then I think baalke is going to take...his second favorite CB. I don't know who they are, but I have a feeling a smaller guy with similar capabilities will NOT be taken by Baalke. He wants the best CB who also has size for his #1 pick( he will jump up to get him) and then will draft another starting CB for his 2nd pick which he may have to jump up a bit for also. Then we get the WR, and then a Center. Hard to believe and I don't know who baalke likes...(usually the guy I didn't even consider). But look for baalke to get his guy keeping in mind 5 of the 8 teams with NO Qb or bad QB will make 5 huge mistakes and take all the top 5 QB, Clowney will be gone, same for Watkins. Then Kalil, makes 8 guys gone bang , bang , bang. All CBs will still be there at pick #9, and my bet baalke gets the best CB out there by his standards...then gets another.

I am sure I will be eating crow, but that's my bet. I just don't know his preference of 5 excellent CBs, with maybe 3 or 4 starters in the group. Remember, a lot of teams are going to be loading up on the top tier WRs after the first 8 picks also. Baalke will get his man...actually his TWO CB men.
Originally posted by KRS-1:
This is an assanine argument. Like Roby was covering better receivers ?

Roby has a pink slip on it with the name Allen Robinson on it because Roby owned him 2 years in a row (this year he only gave up passes to Robinson on a couple of screen plays & on a 3-yard pass. Dennard has never faced Allen Robinson as far as I know. Roby had one of his best games as a buckeye against Keenen Allen last year. Dennard has NEVER faced anyone even close to as good as Kennan Allen.

In fact, the best receiver Dennard ever faced is probably Cody Lattimer, and Trae Waynes was covering Lattimer most of the day the last time they played each other. Well, except for this play:



Short arms & low strength matter when you're 5'11 & trying to contest passes in close proximity. By the way, it was a touchdown despite Dennard's incomplete sign.

Dennard has bust written all over him.
[ Edited by VPofCarnage on Apr 27, 2014 at 8:20 PM ]
Oh speaking of Cody Lattimer, both Dennard and Roby face him for the record.
Originally posted by VPofCarnage:
Roby has a pink slip on it with the name Allen Robinson on it because Roby owned him 2 years in a row (this year he only gave up passes to Robinson on a couple of screen plays & on a 3-yard pass. Dennard has never faced Allen Robinson as far as I know. Roby had one of his best games as a buckeye against Keenen Allen last year. Dennard has NEVER faced anyone even close to as good as Kennan Allen.

In fact, the best receiver Dennard ever faced is probably Cody Lattimer, and Trae Waynes was covering Lattimer most of the day the last time they played each other. Well, except for this play:



Short arms & low strength matter when you're 5'11 & trying to contest passes in close proximity. By the way, it was a touchdown despite Dennard's incomplete sign.

Dennard has bust written all over him.

How did he do against Cal THIS season? Meanwhile teams consistently went after Dennard and he consistently excelled throughout the season, culminating with his performance in the Rose Bowl.


Roby also helped Abbrederis bump his draft stock up quite a bit, so it can't be denied that he's generous.




Anyways, back since this is the Darqueze Dennard thread, let's try to get back on topic.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Apr 27, 2014 at 9:10 PM ]
Well at least we're in agreement about Jason Verrett.
  • Jd925
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Originally posted by VPofCarnage:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
This is an assanine argument. Like Roby was covering better receivers ?

Roby has a pink slip on it with the name Allen Robinson on it because Roby owned him 2 years in a row (this year he only gave up passes to Robinson on a couple of screen plays & on a 3-yard pass. Dennard has never faced Allen Robinson as far as I know. Roby had one of his best games as a buckeye against Keenen Allen last year. Dennard has NEVER faced anyone even close to as good as Kennan Allen.

In fact, the best receiver Dennard ever faced is probably Cody Lattimer, and Trae Waynes was covering Lattimer most of the day the last time they played each other. Well, except for this play:



Short arms & low strength matter when you're 5'11 & trying to contest passes in close proximity. By the way, it was a touchdown despite Dennard's incomplete sign.

Dennard has bust written all over him.

Lol... I like the whole short arms bias... 1 inch more arm length is really nothing... football skills are ten times more important .. it's all about production and as far as Peshek's statistics go, Roby's burn %'s is terrible, especially on 20+ yds..:
http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/46190/349/peshek-cb-metrics-10

Dennard has the lowest burn %..

My sleeper CB of the draft is Andre Hal who has short arms and small hands.. GM's like Bill Pollian make a living off finding guys who didn't have the measurables, but can just play the game... Bobby Sanders was too short, Freeney was too small, Robert Mathis was a tweener.... just like the Honeybadger was too short.. I had him ranked #1 (before I bumped up Hayden in last year's draft..) and he was playing as a stud before he got hurt.. Honeybadger would have been a great slot corner for us.
Roby is not the cb that Dennard is, that's plain to see.
  • DeUh
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  • Posts: 1,720
Originally posted by Jd925:
Lol... I like the whole short arms bias... 1 inch more arm length is really nothing... football skills are ten times more important .. it's all about production and as far as Peshek's statistics go, Roby's burn %'s is terrible, especially on 20+ yds..:
http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/46190/349/peshek-cb-metrics-10

Dennard has the lowest burn %..

My sleeper CB of the draft is Andre Hal who has short arms and small hands.. GM's like Bill Pollian make a living off finding guys who didn't have the measurables, but can just play the game... Bobby Sanders was too short, Freeney was too small, Robert Mathis was a tweener.... just like the Honeybadger was too short.. I had him ranked #1 (before I bumped up Hayden in last year's draft..) and he was playing as a stud before he got hurt.. Honeybadger would have been a great slot corner for us.

Lol at everyone who uses Peshek´s DB Metric Stats as part of their draft evaluation.

Who was Greg Peshek´s most overrated player entering the draft last year ?

























drum rolls please !






















S Eric Reid LSU

" There are many who like Reid as a first round safety, maybe even as the second one off the board. The numbers couldn't tell a different story. Reid's burn rate is glaringly bad.

The safety class on the whole was beat on 52% of all targets. Eric Reid was beat on 61% of all targets, worst among the safety class this year. That may be acceptable if he played well as a box safety, but the metrics suggest that's unlikely. He failed to make many impact tackles, 8.5 for Reid compared to an average of 10.5 for the group. On top of that he missed 14 tackles, second worst in the safety group behind Shamarko Thomas. "
[ Edited by DeUh on Apr 28, 2014 at 1:40 PM ]
  • DeUh
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Did someone say " I want another example ! " Sure why not

Ok according to Greg Peshik´s DB Metrics who was the worst CB last season ?
























drum rolls please !






















CB Ifo Ekpre-Olomu Oregon

Burn percentage 64.71%
Sip Burn percentage 55.56%
Adj. Burn percentage 57.14%


Great work
[ Edited by DeUh on Apr 28, 2014 at 1:36 PM ]
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Roby is not the cb that Dennard is, that's plain to see.

This is true. Roby is much, much, MUCH better than Dennard.
  • Jd925
  • Veteran
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Originally posted by DeUh:
Originally posted by Jd925:
Lol... I like the whole short arms bias... 1 inch more arm length is really nothing... football skills are ten times more important .. it's all about production and as far as Peshek's statistics go, Roby's burn %'s is terrible, especially on 20+ yds..:
http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/46190/349/peshek-cb-metrics-10

Dennard has the lowest burn %..

My sleeper CB of the draft is Andre Hal who has short arms and small hands.. GM's like Bill Pollian make a living off finding guys who didn't have the measurables, but can just play the game... Bobby Sanders was too short, Freeney was too small, Robert Mathis was a tweener.... just like the Honeybadger was too short.. I had him ranked #1 (before I bumped up Hayden in last year's draft..) and he was playing as a stud before he got hurt.. Honeybadger would have been a great slot corner for us.

Lol at everyone who uses Peshek´s DB Metric Stats as part of their draft evaluation.

Who was Greg Peshek´s most overrated players entering the draft last year ?

drum rolls please !

S Eric Reid LSU

" There are many who like Reid as a first round safety, maybe even as the second one off the board. The numbers couldn't tell a different story. Reid's burn rate is glaringly bad.

The safety class on the whole was beat on 52% of all targets. Eric Reid was beat on 61% of all targets, worst among the safety class this year. That may be acceptable if he played well as a box safety, but the metrics suggest that's unlikely. He failed to make many impact tackles, 8.5 for Reid compared to an average of 10.5 for the group. On top of that he missed 14 tackles, second worst in the safety group behind Shamarko Thomas. "

- I use Peshek because that's the only thing I could find who's done more in-depth stats. I don't know how reliable his stats are, but it beats saying 'oooo he has long arms... oooo he's got a great 40...ooo his name sounds cool.'

- Missing on one player does not mean that a particular analytical system or analyst is bad. That's like saying Balke and Harbaugh sucks because AJ Jenkins is a bust. It's better to look at the past success rate of someone's overall analysis. Furthermore, there are also a lot of factors to success. I did not have Eric Reid ranked that high based on my own crude statistical rankings... although he played in the SEC and was probably a more natural free safety pick he wasn't super-productive..just above-average. Reid is smart, well-coached and in a great system to excel. I think a lot of coaches really look for qualities in a player that fit in a system or a talent that they can mold. Sometimes coaches are overly optimistic and think they can turn around a player who don't excel in college. If there is a reason for lack of production (ie. bad team, bad coaches, bad system, bad OL etc) I can understand.. in the reverse if you are in a good conference like the SEC you shouldn't expect as much production because it's much more difficult.

-The main point I would make is stats are very important. Oftentimes the reason for a lack of production is a lack of great football skills. Who cares if you can run a 4.2 40yd and have 35 inch arms if you don't produce at an inferior college level where there are weaker, shorter, less athletic competition. If a player isn't productive in a pop-warner D3 league with all the combine measurables in the world, what makes you think they'll excel in the hyper-competitive NFL?
So, if the 49ers system is built to use tall, fast, long armed corners shouldn't the 49ers be drafting tall fast long armed corners?
Originally posted by Scoots:
So, if the 49ers system is built to use tall, fast, long armed corners shouldn't the 49ers be drafting tall fast long armed corners?

The 49ers' system isn't necessarily built that way. But basically you're describing Patrick Peterson. And yes it would be nice to have Patrick Peterson.
[ Edited by VPofCarnage on Apr 28, 2014 at 2:43 PM ]