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Will Sutton dun goofed

Will Sutton wins PAC-12 Defensive Player of the Year for the 2nd year straight
http://www.azcentral.com/sports/asu/articles/20131202pac-12-football-coach-of-year-asu-todd-graham-defensive-player-of-year-will-sutton.html


lol @ you guys hating on him.

I'd agree with the award and not just because I'm an ASU fan. I thought he had an outstanding year, was just as influential on the play as last year.
Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
Will Sutton wins PAC-12 Defensive Player of the Year for the 2nd year straight
http://www.azcentral.com/sports/asu/articles/20131202pac-12-football-coach-of-year-asu-todd-graham-defensive-player-of-year-will-sutton.html


lol @ you guys hating on him.

I'd agree with the award and not just because I'm an ASU fan. I thought he had an outstanding year, was just as influential on the play as last year.

Dude I did not hate him. In fact I loved Will Sutton. Last year I thought he was 1st round pick and I stated it on this board. I even said the grade that the advisory board gave him was BS. I think he has 10 less sacks and 24 less tackles then last year. He gained a lot of weight in a very short of amount of time which is ill advited. It will hurt his draft stock. Sorry. You can't tell me his draft is better with 10 less sacks and 24 less tackles. That doesn't mean I think he's the worst dlinemen in college football.
Originally posted by eonblue:
Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
Will Sutton wins PAC-12 Defensive Player of the Year for the 2nd year straight
http://www.azcentral.com/sports/asu/articles/20131202pac-12-football-coach-of-year-asu-todd-graham-defensive-player-of-year-will-sutton.html


lol @ you guys hating on him.

I'd agree with the award and not just because I'm an ASU fan. I thought he had an outstanding year, was just as influential on the play as last year.

Dude I did not hate him. In fact I loved Will Sutton. Last year I thought he was 1st round pick and I stated it on this board. I even said the grade that the advisory board gave him was BS. I think he has 10 less sacks and 24 less tackles then last year. He gained a lot of weight in a very short of amount of time which is ill advited. It will hurt his draft stock. Sorry. You can't tell me his draft is better with 10 less sacks and 24 less tackles. That doesn't mean I think he's the worst dlinemen in college football.

You said he'd go undrafted, that's about as harsh as you can say about a player like Sutton. If thats not "hate" I'd be curious what is "Hate." If I said Jordan Matthews would be undrafted, I'd consider that hating on a player.

You watched him play Wisconsin, right? Where were all of Wisconsin's big runs? To the outside, Wisconsin never ran inside against ASU due to Sutton. It was all Melvin Gordon to the outside.

Jadevon Clowney has 3 sacks on the year, you think he is going to be drafted outside the first round? Stats don't tell half the story.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b4T7KCuhI0
-a clip of Sutton vs Stanford above^^^
-Il' go over the pass protection on Sutton's side and run plays to Sutton's side
-First play, see Stanford roll 4 blockers to Sutton's side?
-at :30, notice the whole Stanford line shift (and fall over) on Sutton?-1:05, run to Sutton's side, loss of 2
-1:10 run at Sutton, gain of 1
-1:35, Sutton is double teamed and they run an option, QB takes it the opposite why Sutton pushed the 2 lineman. Sutton makes the tackle still. Gain of 5 by QB
-1:45, Sutton gets penetration on 3rd and short, but run to other side
-1:47 Sutton destroys the lineman on 1v1, runs WR reverse to other side of field
-1:50, run to Sutton's side that bounces outside away from Sutton, gain of 5
-2:15, Sutton double teamed on pass rush, beats the first guy but picked up by 2nd
-2:20 run to Sutton's side, loss of 2
-2:30, Sutton takes on 3 blockers who all go low on Sutton and Sutton almost stops the RB who gains 1 yard for the TD (by stretching it over the goal line, otherwise he was stopped, his knees never crossed the LOS). On that play Sutton actually made the stop but his legs get buckled by the lineman below him and he falls to the ground
-3:20, Sutton shoots his gap and Stanford hits the other side, 9 yard gain. The problem is, and this is an assumption, is Stanford shifts their TE and it looks to me Sutton switches his gap assignment
-3:35, run to the other side but still Sutton is double teamed
-3:51, Sutton is pulled to the ground by a holding
-3:55 looks to me that Sutton's legs are tripped up but the falling Center, but you'll notice RB's play was to hit Sutton's gap, he bounces it all the way outside for the TD. But I'll count it against Sutton. 11 yard gain.
-4:25, Sutton has a great pass rush move and is beating his guy when Hogan gets the ball out (incomplete)
-4:40, run to Sutton's side, gain of 6. Stanford keeps running a play that allows Sutton to beat his guy and that walls off the other side of the gap
-4:55 run to Sutton's side, on the outside, gain of 6
5:00 Sutton double teamed on run, gain of 6
-5:14 Sutton TFL on run play, loss of 1
-5:35 run to Sutton's side, gain of 1
-6:05 is another great example of Stanford's design on pass protection, they keep selling out to Sutton's side, 6:49 another example
-7:15, Sutton makes tackle on RB on other side of line, gain of 4
-8:30 Sutton blows up his blocker, run gain of 3
-8:53, Sutton does an excellent job holding the point of attack, runs to the outside for gain of 7
-9:03 run to Sutton's side, gain of 2
-9:11 run to Sutton's side, TFL for loss of 2
-9:25 run to Sutton's side, gain of 3
-9:30 run to Sutton's side, zero gain
-9:39 run to Sutton's side, gain of 6
-9:47 run to Sutton's side, loss of 2
-10:15 run to Sutton's side, gain of 1

Total runs to Sutton's side: 23
Yards gained: 68 yards
YPC: 2.96

And yet the perception he is he had a terrible game. Out of the 23 run plays I saw, he maybe failed to hold his point of attack or get penetration 2-3 times. The only time he was pushed back in runs is when he was running horizontal towards run plays on the other side of the field....

On pass rush, I don't know what you expect when the entire team stacks against him. Yankey had 1v1 on Sutton about 3 times that Sutton didn't penetrate against him in pass rush situations.
[ Edited by SunDevilNiner79 on Dec 2, 2013 at 4:20 PM ]
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
If Tank comes in and is really effective I think you'll see a number of teams doing what we did w/Latimore and Tank.

You're giving a lot of bad GM's way too much credit. Not many teams will be willing to take a flyer on a guy that may not play for a full season.

When GMs and head coaches have their jobs on the line, long term drafting is out of the window. With a combination of good ownership and a strong squad caused by his good efforts in FA and the draft Baalke can afford to plan long term.
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
If Tank comes in and is really effective I think you'll see a number of teams doing what we did w/Latimore and Tank.

You're giving a lot of bad GM's way too much credit. Not many teams will be willing to take a flyer on a guy that may not play for a full season.

When GMs and head coaches have their jobs on the line, long term drafting is out of the window. With a combination of good ownership and a strong squad caused by his good efforts in FA and the draft Baalke can afford to plan long term.

Only teams that have the depth like we do
Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
You said he'd go undrafted, that's about as harsh as you can say about a player like Sutton. If thats not "hate" I'd be curious what is "Hate." If I said Jordan Matthews would be undrafted, I'd consider that hating on a player.

You watched him play Wisconsin, right? Where were all of Wisconsin's big runs? To the outside, Wisconsin never ran inside against ASU due to Sutton. It was all Melvin Gordon to the outside.

Jadevon Clowney has 3 sacks on the year, you think he is going to be drafted outside the first round? Stats don't tell half the story.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b4T7KCuhI0
-a clip of Sutton vs Stanford above^^^
-Il' go over the pass protection on Sutton's side and run plays to Sutton's side
-First play, see Stanford roll 4 blockers to Sutton's side?
-at :30, notice the whole Stanford line shift (and fall over) on Sutton?-1:05, run to Sutton's side, loss of 2
-1:10 run at Sutton, gain of 1
-1:35, Sutton is double teamed and they run an option, QB takes it the opposite why Sutton pushed the 2 lineman. Sutton makes the tackle still. Gain of 5 by QB
-1:45, Sutton gets penetration on 3rd and short, but run to other side
-1:47 Sutton destroys the lineman on 1v1, runs WR reverse to other side of field
-1:50, run to Sutton's side that bounces outside away from Sutton, gain of 5
-2:15, Sutton double teamed on pass rush, beats the first guy but picked up by 2nd
-2:20 run to Sutton's side, loss of 2
-2:30, Sutton takes on 3 blockers who all go low on Sutton and Sutton almost stops the RB who gains 1 yard for the TD (by stretching it over the goal line, otherwise he was stopped, his knees never crossed the LOS). On that play Sutton actually made the stop but his legs get buckled by the lineman below him and he falls to the ground
-3:20, Sutton shoots his gap and Stanford hits the other side, 9 yard gain. The problem is, and this is an assumption, is Stanford shifts their TE and it looks to me Sutton switches his gap assignment
-3:35, run to the other side but still Sutton is double teamed
-3:51, Sutton is pulled to the ground by a holding
-3:55 looks to me that Sutton's legs are tripped up but the falling Center, but you'll notice RB's play was to hit Sutton's gap, he bounces it all the way outside for the TD. But I'll count it against Sutton. 11 yard gain.
-4:25, Sutton has a great pass rush move and is beating his guy when Hogan gets the ball out (incomplete)
-4:40, run to Sutton's side, gain of 6. Stanford keeps running a play that allows Sutton to beat his guy and that walls off the other side of the gap
-4:55 run to Sutton's side, on the outside, gain of 6
5:00 Sutton double teamed on run, gain of 6
-5:14 Sutton TFL on run play, loss of 1
-5:35 run to Sutton's side, gain of 1
-6:05 is another great example of Stanford's design on pass protection, they keep selling out to Sutton's side, 6:49 another example
-7:15, Sutton makes tackle on RB on other side of line, gain of 4
-8:30 Sutton blows up his blocker, run gain of 3
-8:53, Sutton does an excellent job holding the point of attack, runs to the outside for gain of 7
-9:03 run to Sutton's side, gain of 2
-9:11 run to Sutton's side, TFL for loss of 2
-9:25 run to Sutton's side, gain of 3
-9:30 run to Sutton's side, zero gain
-9:39 run to Sutton's side, gain of 6
-9:47 run to Sutton's side, loss of 2
-10:15 run to Sutton's side, gain of 1

Total runs to Sutton's side: 23
Yards gained: 68 yards
YPC: 2.96

And yet the perception he is he had a terrible game. Out of the 23 run plays I saw, he maybe failed to hold his point of attack or get penetration 2-3 times. The only time he was pushed back in runs is when he was running horizontal towards run plays on the other side of the field....

On pass rush, I don't know what you expect when the entire team stacks against him. Yankey had 1v1 on Sutton about 3 times that Sutton didn't penetrate against him in pass rush situations.

I've seen that video before and I wasn't impressed. In one on one both of the guards are successful in blocking him for a majority of the snaps. A first round DT has to do better one on one against the guards. I understand the center would shuffle over but he was still in great position to play both the A gaps and that's the point. If their going to tell the center to play his gaps and not double team the DT from the start of the snap the DT has to create instant pressure. Yankey also threw him on the ground and drove him back when run blocking.

I will say Sutton busted through his gap getting very close to a TFL, and he drew a double team from the center that allowed A gap pressure, at the end of the 2nd. I'm not saying Sutton didn't have some success but if you were to ask Sutton if this was the type of game he wanted to have against the Stanford Oline he would most definitely tell you no.

I don't think the entire team was stacked against him either. When he was rushing to outside of the guard his rush lane was very wide and he didn't augment the pocket at all. When he chose to go inside the guard the guard was able to out muscle him.

I was exaggerating when I said he would go undrafted. I was just trying to point out how big of a mistake it was for him to gain all that weight. I think his combine is going to be very important. He's going to have to come in and look smooth. If he does I think he's a 2nd-3rd.

DT rankings:

Louis Nix
Rasheed Hagemeen
Anythony Johnson
Tim Jernigan
Ego Ferguson
Ed Stinson
Aaron Donald
Will Sutton

I think Sutton may be better suited in a 3-4 as DE.
[ Edited by eonblue on Dec 4, 2013 at 11:01 AM ]
Will Sutton named to AP All-American team for 2nd year straight. Aaron Donald is the other DT named to 1st team.

2nd team was Jernigan and Quarles.
Aaron Donald reminds me of Bryant Young the way he moves.