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Players to watch for the niners in '14 draft

Originally posted by mkary12:
First of all, in most NFL defenses these days, I don't think it's about FS and SS. You need 2 interchangeable safeties who are both hard-hitting and good in coverage.

I HATE this safety class outside of Clinton-Dix. Some of them, like Reynolds, I wouldn't mind drafting, but I'd be nervous about starting them Year 1. I like Exum more as a prospect than any of the safety prospects. And Reid is a smart enough player to play wherever he needs to.

Exum is an interesting prospect, I like his versatility, that you can put him at CB or Safety. He seems like the type of player that Baalke would like as a cornerback, , he's a tough press corner, well built, can play on the outside or as a slot CB, has decent speed for his size, great quickness, a better man-to-man than zone corner. Culliver and Exum at CB would be a nice combination, good size, physical, athletic...
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Oct 11, 2013 at 12:13 PM ]
Here are some of the main prospects that I'm watching this season in particular.


Odell Beckham-WR-LSU-49ers lack explosiveness in their WR's, Beckham brings it in spades. He's a very dynamic talent, explosive playmaker, could be just what the doctor ordered to make this offense more dangerous.

Paul Richardson-WR-CU-See Odell Beckham.

Justin Gilbert-CB-Oklahoma State-Possibly my favorite CB in the draft, good size, physical, very athletic, moves very fluidly, shows good agility, awareness, plays the ball well in the air, very experienced and battle tested.

Tracy Moore-WR-Oklahoma State-Reminds me of Chris Harper in this past draft, possibly even more physical, explosive talent with off the field issues, upside is a faster version of Anquan Boldin, downside is a smaller version of Da'Rick Rogers.

Ed Reynolds-FS-Stanford-Great coverage safety, poor tackler, has work to do if he wants to be a top pick.

Jordan Matthews-WR-Vanderbilt- Terrific possession WR, great size, instincts for the position, great hands.

Ricardo Allen-CB-Purdue-Ideal NFL slot corner in my opinion, on-field leader, plays with a chip on his shoulder, talks a lot of trash, kind of cocky, but he backs it up with his play on the field.

Phillip Gaines-CB-Rice-Highly experienced ballhawk, hard worker, has very good footwork, has had injury issues.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Goldson was drafted after Taylor Mays, should Taylor Mays be paid more? I don't think you worry about re-signing guys down the road, you go and get the best talent, period. Its not like draft slotting determines what a guy will be paid for his next contract.

I wasn't saying that draft position = bigger contract although I'm sure there's some correlation.

You actually made my point for me.

I would rather spend a 4th round pick on a safety then a 1st round pick because in this case I'm not going to be able resign him. Goldson becomes much easier to let go because he was 4th rounder IMO.

The FO is not going to pay Reid and 1st round safety what the market will pay them.

So why invest a 1st round pick on a safety we're not going have long-term when you can get him in the 2nd or 3rd?

I get your point though. I'm assuming that a 1st round pick is going to warrant a big contract but I think that should be expected.

Shouldn't we expect a 1st round pick to perform to a high standard? Especially since that pick in this case is at the safety position, and we're really going to need production from him with Whitner most likely leaving.

This is just a minor issue though.

For me if you're going safety in the 1st it's Clinton-dix or bust, and behind Clinton-Dix is Reynold, and I know you don't agree, but Reynolds is not a 1st round talent IMO.

If it was Clinton-Dix then I would understand, but it's someone who arguably is a lesser player than the FS we have now in Reid.

Reynold is certainly not better than any of the top 3 CB's we could pick up.

The FO is much more likely to resign Reid, and then resign X CB from the 1st round then they're to resign 2 safeties.

This way your investing in 2 foundational pieces at 2 different positions instead drafting another safety that will most likely walk because cap space says only Reid can get resigned.
[ Edited by eonblue on Oct 11, 2013 at 12:44 PM ]
Originally posted by eonblue:
I wasn't saying that draft position = bigger contract although I'm sure there's some correlation.

You actually made my point for me.

I would rather spend a 4th round pick on a safety then a 1st round pick because in this case I'm not going to be able resign him. Goldson becomes much easier to let go because he was 4th rounder IMO.

The FO is not going to pay Reid and 1st round safety what the market will pay them.

So why invest a 1st round pick on a safety we're not going have long-term when you can get him in the 2nd or 3rd?

I get your point though. I'm assuming that a 1st round pick is going to warrant a big contract but I think that should be expected.

Shouldn't we expect a 1st round pick to perform to a high standard? Especially since that pick in this case is at the safety position, and we're really going to need production from him with Whitner most likely leaving.

This is just a minor issue though.

For me if you're going safety in the 1st it's Clinton-dix or bust, and behind Clinton-Dix is Reynold, and I know you don't agree, but Reynolds is not a 1st round talent IMO.

If it was Clinton-Dix then I would understand, but it's someone who arguably is a lesser player than the FS we have now in Reid.

Reynold is certainly not better than any of the top 3 CB's we could pick up.

The FO is much more likely to resign Reid, and then resign X CB from the 1st round then they're to resign 2 safeties.

This way your investing in 2 foundational pieces at 2 different positions instead drafting another safety that will most likely walk because cap space says only Reid can get resigned.

Yeah, I expected AJ Jenkins to play to a high standard and we all saw how that went.



I just think, if you can get talent, then do it, wherever it is in the draft. If you're in the first round, you need a safety and there's a guy who can come in and start from day one do you go "no, I'm good, I'll roll the dice and hope I can get someone in round 3." C'mon that doesn't make any sense, 4 years down the road is a long time to worry about potentially re-signing a guy. If the player you pick turns out to be a great player, you're going to be paying him a lot of money, no matter where he was drafted or even if he was drafted.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Yeah, I expected AJ Jenkins to play to a high standard and we all saw how that went.



I just think, if you can get talent, then do it, wherever it is in the draft. If you're in the first round, you need a safety and there's a guy who can come in and start from day one do you go "no, I'm good, I'll roll the dice and hope I can get someone in round 3." C'mon that doesn't make any sense, 4 years down the road is a long time to worry about potentially re-signing a guy. If the player you pick turns out to be a great player, you're going to be paying him a lot of money, no matter where he was drafted or even if he was drafted.

Touche. Jenkins is the exception not the rule though, and for every Jenkins there has been a Staley, Iupati, Davis, Smith, and Reid.

I agree with the statement if you can get talent then do it regardless of position, but I want the right safety at the right position.

I don't think the 1st round is the right time, and here's why.

  • CB/WR is arguably just as big of a need as safety if not more of a need.
  • Purifoy, Roberson, Ekpre-Olomu, Verrett, and Roby are better prospects than any free safety minus Clinton-Dix so spending your 1st round pick on one of them not only means your addressing a position of need, but you also got the BPA.
  • Any CB drafted stands a better chance at getting resigned, therefore you're maximizing the value of the 1st round pick.
  • One of Bailey, Sunseri, Exum, Loston, and Buchannon will be available in the 2nd.

Why not strike then?

Ultimately I don't know if moving Reid to SS is the best idea. I like the idea of having him there because he would be really great in coverage. Any SS we draft has to be better then Whitner in coverage though, and we seem to be doing fine so far this season. I really don't know if moving Reid, and picking up a pure FS is necessary.
[ Edited by eonblue on Oct 11, 2013 at 11:48 PM ]
Originally posted by AB81Rules:
CBs:

Jason Verrett, TCU
Darqeuze Dennard, Michigan State
Justin Gilbert, Oklahoma State
Bennett Jackson, Notre Dame
Bene Bewekere, San Jose State
Kyle Fuller, Virginia Tech
Atone Exum, Virginia Tech
Tim Scott, North Carolina
Jaylen Watkins, Florida
Carrington Byndom, Texas
Ifo Ekpre-Olomu, Oregon
Deion Belue, Alabama
Marcus Williams, North Dakota State
Ross Cockrell, Duke


Where's Aaron Colvin?
Phoenix and others would love to hear your thoughts on the SS's. My snap judgement was Loston looks pretty big and stiff... liked his closing speed in the run game but not sure about his coverage ability. Ahmad Dixon looks slow and stiff. Looked at Buchannon as well and none of them gave me confidence that they could replace Whitner and not miss a beat. I'd rather have someone who can play coverage since the NFL is becoming more pass happy. I would take a FS who is big and can cover yet still play the run. We have a front 7 who is pretty good against the run and I don't want a SS who can only play the run and can't cover. Also, took a quick look at Gilbert and he impressed me more than the other 5 or so players I quickly looked at tonight. Could be our end of the 1st round pick. If we double dip wouldn't mind Allen in the 3rd. We like bigger CB's but if they are undersized they better play physical and Allen shows a lot of confidence and physicality. He's not afraid to come up and tackle a RB in the backfield.
[ Edited by Gore_21 on Oct 11, 2013 at 10:51 PM ]
Originally posted by Hopper:
Originally posted by AB81Rules:
CBs:

Jason Verrett, TCU
Darqeuze Dennard, Michigan State
Justin Gilbert, Oklahoma State
Bennett Jackson, Notre Dame
Bene Bewekere, San Jose State
Kyle Fuller, Virginia Tech
Atone Exum, Virginia Tech
Tim Scott, North Carolina
Jaylen Watkins, Florida
Carrington Byndom, Texas
Ifo Ekpre-Olomu, Oregon
Deion Belue, Alabama
Marcus Williams, North Dakota State
Ross Cockrell, Duke

Where's Aaron Colvin?

damn, forgot him.
Originally posted by Gore_21:
Phoenix and others would love to hear your thoughts on the SS's. My snap judgement was Loston looks pretty big and stiff... liked his closing speed in the run game but not sure about his coverage ability. Ahmad Dixon looks slow and stiff. Looked at Buchannon as well and none of them gave me confidence that they could replace Whitner and not miss a beat. I'd rather have someone who can play coverage since the NFL is becoming more pass happy. I would take a FS who is big and can cover yet still play the run. We have a front 7 who is pretty good against the run and I don't want a SS who can only play the run and can't cover. Also, took a quick look at Gilbert and he impressed me more than the other 5 or so players I quickly looked at tonight. Could be our end of the 1st round pick. If we double dip wouldn't mind Allen in the 3rd. We like bigger CB's but if they are undersized they better play physical and Allen shows a lot of confidence and physicality. He's not afraid to come up and tackle a RB in the backfield.

The only safety who is a 1st rd safety right now is Clinton-Dix. None are worth a 1st rd pick. I like Reynolds and Richards from Stanford, but they are 2nd rd guys IMO.

I still like Loston, Dixon and Buchannon. Donatell can work wonders with DBs, look how good Brown became once he came in. And how well Brock has played. I believe with the right DB Coach our DBs can be one of the elite secondaries.
Thanks AB. Yeah Donatell is an awesome DB coach. Hopefully he retires here. One thing is anyone who we draft will quickly get put into the best shape of their lives. Could have them lose some pounds if we wanted to. Takes time to get into NFL game shape and up to speed. Let's say we go CB in the 1st, SS with KC's 2nd (now will probably be late) and then maybe WR with our 2nd.... we very well could see Dahl, Michael Thomas or another S until our draft pick earns the starting role. Reid won it but he was also the 18th pick. If we pick a SS at say 52 or so might be too much to expect them to start off the bat.

Anyways, I think it's time to go CB in the first especially if Brown and Rogers are gone. If Rogers restructures and we have Brock and Cox back then we might be ok in the 2nd or 3rd but without those guys seems like we should use a 1st on it. I think we are due; last 1st round CB was Mike Rumph in 02. We will see who is back but I think I'm set on 1. CB 2 SS 2 WR. By the way I can see why you like Loston... guy is like a truck out there just wish he had more bend and flexibility. I can see the potential. Again, I'd have to watch him in coverage more.
sorry double post
[ Edited by Gore_21 on Oct 12, 2013 at 2:57 AM ]
Originally posted by eonblue:
I agree with taking a CB in the 1st.

First, for the reason you have stated. TB and Nnamdi will probably not be back. Rogers may not restructure. And while Culliver, Brock, and Cox may return there's still a high level of uncertainty at the position especially over the next two years.

Second, I think Reid has exceeded everyone's expectations. Hes a leader and a student of the game. I think you get many good years out of Reid. So as premature as it may be I think Reid is the foundation of a young secondary, and when the time comes he will be extended.

Personally, it's smart business to resign your 1st round picks. Idk if the cap would allow you to resign Reid, and then the next year resign another 1st rd safety therefore I think we pick CB because that will be a position will require a foundational piece. It will allow the FO to maximize its 1st rd pick, and equally distribute cap space. I dont think the money is there to have 2 top teir safeties, and I would hate to see a 1st rd pick leave via FA so I think we address the safety position in the 2nd or 3rd round.

Third, with all the picks the team has in the 2014 draft they're in a great position to trade up for a top talent at any position. I would like the FO to target Roby, Purifoy, Robertson, or Colvin. You would be drafting a play maker which is the whole point of the 1st round, and given the fact that the position will be thin, and not much cap space will be devoted to it the best interest of the team would be resigning their 1st round pick.

Fully agree on all your points made. TB leaving is going to be a blow because I personally believe he has consistently been out best CB. Carlos possibly not coming back next year is huge as well. No doubt those two not returning next year leaves a pretty significant hole at the CB position. So luckily the upcoming draft is deep with quality play maker CBs to reload the position with youth for cheap for years to come.

If Eric Reid wasn't such a BEAST on the field and a great teammate/leader, then perhaps I would put more emphasis on getting another S in the first round. But it's no coincidence the secondary is stronger than I expected it would be and I think Eric is a big reason for that. I think we'll get by just fine selecting a SS in the second round. The only safety in the draft I'd spend the first rounder on is HaHa Clinton Dix and even then, I'd select one of the stud CBs like Verrett, Purifoy, Roby, Roberson, Ekpre-Olomu or a WR like Sammy Watkins, Jordan Matthews, and Mike Evans over him any day.
I like the idea of Clinton-Dix as well but don't see back to back safeties. I think the CB position might be more likely depending on how many of our current DB's resign/get retained.

Could see a first round player like Harvin or Cobb to add some explosion to multi receiver sets and the return game.
A couple of match-ups I'm watching today.

First, Florida have the best tandem of CB's in Purifoy and Roberson. LSU arguably has the best pair of WR's in Landry and Odell Beckham Jr. I'm going to be watching this match up closely. Landry and Beckham Jr. are excellent routes runners, and they're very fast. This is going to be a physical and technically demanding battle. I'm interested to see how the Florida CB's handle the speed and refined route running of LSU's WR's. This is the kind of game that convinces scouts you're worth the pick.

Second, I think the Baalke needs to cement a young dline, and draft another 3-4 DE. Carradine, Dial are a step in the right direction, but I think we need one more young piece. This way we have every position covered with depth and youth, and when cowboy rides off into the sunset will have options with which to feel his shoes.

Missouri is 5-0 and will be pumped to go 6-0. Georgia is 4-1 but very beat up and coming off two very tight wins vs LSU and Tenn. Murray and Franklin are going to try to pass their team to a win so the pass rush in this game is going to be crucial.

Enter #47 Kony Ealy 6-5 275 4.77 40 time for Missouri. He's a very raw prospect but incredibly explosive with athleticism to spare. I personally would love to see him learning from another Missouri alumni in Justin Smith.

Enter #47 Ray Drew 6-5 283 4.77 40 time for Georgia. The nation is sleeping on this guy. He was a 5 star recruit from the 2010 class but he has either under-performed or gotten stuck beneath a stacked Georgia front 7. Also he spent a year and half at tweener status but his body is growing into a 3-4 DE. He uses his length to keep the tackle/guard off him while his lower body strength to drive to the QB. He has 8 tackles 3 sacks and 1 PD against his past 2 opponents(LSU and Tennesse). He was the only Georgia Bulldog that could generate pressure against a stout Tennessee Oline, and he did it against their star LT.
[ Edited by eonblue on Oct 12, 2013 at 8:49 AM ]
TE Jace Amaro from Texas Tech is an absolute freak. The guy is a former basketball player and is 6'6" 260 pounds. He has great hands and is a solid blocker.