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***Johnny Manziel thread***

  • Kolohe
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  • Posts: 31,531
Originally posted by jimmy49erfan:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by eonblue:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
No, giving a kid a million dollars when all he wants to do is party is why I wouldn't take him early.

Hes not an alcoholic. He had a quite season minus the autograph scandal at the beginning. Statistically his 2013 season beat 2012 season so he's not in a downward spiral or it would've manifeated itself on the field. All I noticed was him carrying his team to 8-4 when by all rights that defense was 0-12. Anyways beating a dead horse. I like Bridgewater and Bortles easily over Manziel but some team is going to continue the trend and pick him high because he's mobile.

I guess you continue to disregard that long article with his dad admitting that his son is indeed an acholic. And Manziel carrying his team or was it Evans and Walker bailing him out?? But yes a dead horse......shoot I can name 5 QB's I'd take over Manziel without him being a head case.
Really? Who would those be?

Manziel can make every throw in the book and obviously has the feet to escape the rush. I dont think there are any sure things among this QB group but I dont see 5 that have bigger upsides.

1. Aaron Murray (if he was healthy)

2. David Carr

3. David Fales

4. Jimmy Garoppolo

5. Connor Shaw

6. Zach Mettenberger

7. James Franklin

What makes Manziel have more upside than any of those 7 I listed??

If you gotta ask that you havent seen him play much. None of those listed come close to his pocket presence or accuracy on the run. I dunno why you even listed Shaw? Hes turrible, really turrible.

Umm you still didn't answer my question, why did you even bother. All you did was criticize my post.
  • Kolohe
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Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Wow what's so funny, bunch of frickin comedians in here.

All QB's mentioned have bigger arms, a good head on his shoulders, just as mobile with good pocket presence they're just not getting the hype Mr. Johnny football is getting.

We will all see who the better Pro is in the NFL.

What??? Manziel is as mobile as Russell Wilson - Wilson would win in a sprint, but Manziel is way more elusive and has RB vision. His 40 was surprisingly slow and he plays faster than it, but his 3 cone was 6.75 which is elite (Wilson's was 6.97 which is still very good for a QB). We don't know if his playmaking ability will transfer to the NFL, but saying Mettenberger is just as mobile is inane. Some of those guys are terrible athletes. Carr could have as much upside because of his arm but the others don't and it's not even close with most of them.

You got me if this was an April Fools' joke.

I wasn't saying ALL QB's were mobile, maybe I worded it wrong. But C'mon if you've watched college football before you'd know that I didn't mean Mettenberger was mobile or even just as mobile as Manziel. I was more talking about the ones that were mobile, Franklin and Shaw, and the rest I was showing that could pass the ball, stay in the pocket just as good if not better....Murray, Carr, Fales, Mettenberger and Garroppolo.. But I think people on here are forgetting why I mentioned those QB's.
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by jimmy49erfan:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by eonblue:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
No, giving a kid a million dollars when all he wants to do is party is why I wouldn't take him early.

Hes not an alcoholic. He had a quite season minus the autograph scandal at the beginning. Statistically his 2013 season beat 2012 season so he's not in a downward spiral or it would've manifeated itself on the field. All I noticed was him carrying his team to 8-4 when by all rights that defense was 0-12. Anyways beating a dead horse. I like Bridgewater and Bortles easily over Manziel but some team is going to continue the trend and pick him high because he's mobile.

I guess you continue to disregard that long article with his dad admitting that his son is indeed an acholic. And Manziel carrying his team or was it Evans and Walker bailing him out?? But yes a dead horse......shoot I can name 5 QB's I'd take over Manziel without him being a head case.
Really? Who would those be?

Manziel can make every throw in the book and obviously has the feet to escape the rush. I dont think there are any sure things among this QB group but I dont see 5 that have bigger upsides.

1. Aaron Murray (if he was healthy)

2. David Carr

3. David Fales

4. Jimmy Garoppolo

5. Connor Shaw

6. Zach Mettenberger

7. James Franklin

What makes Manziel have more upside than any of those 7 I listed??

If you gotta ask that you havent seen him play much. None of those listed come close to his pocket presence or accuracy on the run. I dunno why you even listed Shaw? Hes turrible, really turrible.

Umm you still didn't answer my question, why did you even bother. All you did was criticize my post.

Pocket presence, reading defenses, mobility, accuracy, accuracy on the run, speed both timed and game. Manziel made plays that none of those on your list could ever do vs top defenses. Still gotta wonder why you listed Shaw? There is nothing about him thats QB worthy. Hes a FB playing QB.
Carr is severely overrated
  • Kolohe
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  • Posts: 31,531
Originally posted by jimmy49erfan:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by jimmy49erfan:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by eonblue:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
No, giving a kid a million dollars when all he wants to do is party is why I wouldn't take him early.

Hes not an alcoholic. He had a quite season minus the autograph scandal at the beginning. Statistically his 2013 season beat 2012 season so he's not in a downward spiral or it would've manifeated itself on the field. All I noticed was him carrying his team to 8-4 when by all rights that defense was 0-12. Anyways beating a dead horse. I like Bridgewater and Bortles easily over Manziel but some team is going to continue the trend and pick him high because he's mobile.

I guess you continue to disregard that long article with his dad admitting that his son is indeed an acholic. And Manziel carrying his team or was it Evans and Walker bailing him out?? But yes a dead horse......shoot I can name 5 QB's I'd take over Manziel without him being a head case.
Really? Who would those be?

Manziel can make every throw in the book and obviously has the feet to escape the rush. I dont think there are any sure things among this QB group but I dont see 5 that have bigger upsides.

1. Aaron Murray (if he was healthy)

2. David Carr

3. David Fales

4. Jimmy Garoppolo

5. Connor Shaw

6. Zach Mettenberger

7. James Franklin

What makes Manziel have more upside than any of those 7 I listed??

If you gotta ask that you havent seen him play much. None of those listed come close to his pocket presence or accuracy on the run. I dunno why you even listed Shaw? Hes turrible, really turrible.

Umm you still didn't answer my question, why did you even bother. All you did was criticize my post.

Pocket presence, reading defenses, mobility, accuracy, accuracy on the run, speed both timed and game. Manziel made plays that none of those on your list could ever do vs top defenses. Still gotta wonder why you listed Shaw? There is nothing about him thats QB worthy. Hes a FB playing QB.

LOL, you think the above mentioned QB's don't have those exact same things...minus the immaturity??

Oh really, Aaron Murray surpassed Peyton Mannings record for passing in the SEC, you can't do that if you can't make plays.

Here's also James Franklin:


Franklin showing just as good pocket presence, pinpoint accuracy and athleticism, arm strength.....oh yah and no Mike Evans to bail him out.

Connor Shaw, tell me he can't make the plays Manziel can, oh yah Shaw has only thrown 1 pick last year in 284 attempts with 24 TD's. In this video I'm about to show you, you can't tell me he can't make all the throws in the NFL with what he's shown in this video:

So what's not QB worthy about Shaw??

Tell me, what kind of pre-snap reads does Manziel make that shows you that he can read a defense, or are you just throwing that out there cause you heard it on NFL Network??

From what I've seen in Manziel, most times than not, if his first read isn't there the happy feet get going and that won't work in the NFL see-Mike Vick. I'd like to see Manziel without Mike Evans. I mean who made who, a lot of times you see Evans bailing out Manziel coming back to the ball. Aside Carr, how many of the QB's mentioned have a receiver like Mike Evans??

One thing I'd also like to clear up, I said I'd rather take the above mentioned QB's rather than Manziel, but I'd rather take the other QB's in the later rounds not where Manziel is projected to be drafted at.
  • Kolohe
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Originally posted by lamontb:
Carr is severely overrated

That maybe true if you consider him a 1st round pick in which I don't. I've always thought of him as a 2nd round pick, which I think is right where he should be IMO.
sorry kolohe, but i think you might be the only one i know that thinks Shaw would be a good QB. he just doesn't look very good to me.
  • xcfan
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manziel = favre shagged doug fluties little sister.
is in a fight with a friend over anther copyright phrase. this guy is all about everything other than football. I mean his pro-day was a circus.
32 on the Wonderlic compared to 28 for Bortles and 20 for Bridgewater. I just saw a headline about Manziel's strong Wonderlic - 32 is a little above average for a QB and the media is sensationalizing this. I think most people would have guessed that the top QB's would finish in this order. 20 is low for a QB but Bridgewater was known to be a little slow which had already caused him to drop. I don't think this drops him further.
Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:
32 on the Wonderlic compared to 28 for Bortles and 20 for Bridgewater. I just saw a headline about Manziel's strong Wonderlic - 32 is a little above average for a QB and the media is sensationalizing this. I think most people would have guessed that the top QB's would finish in this order. 20 is low for a QB but Bridgewater was known to be a little slow which had already caused him to drop. I don't think this drops him further.

Not surprised Manziel did decent. He's an Arab.
Originally posted by TheRambler:
Not surprised Manziel did decent. He's an Arab.


Originally posted by Kolohe:







In the above two highlight clips. I saw two quarterbacks, who 95% of the time, are sitting in a wide open pocket and / or throwing to wide open WR's. They look like backups in the NFL at best. Their running lanes are wide open, and they rarely make anybody miss (if they did at all). I think I saw one or two boken tackles.
They rarely throw off balance, or do anything beyond what a normal quarterback is expected to do.

In the below Manziel highlight clip (which is one of his shorter ones), I see him dodge more defenders in one PLAY, then either of the two quarterbacks above dodged in their entire highlight clips COMBINED.

Unlike the above two quarterbacks, he is constantly dealing with pockets collapsing around him in this clip. I am sure he has made throws where he had all day with a wide open WR, but those plays are not going to make his highlight clip, unlike the two quarterbacks above where most of their "highlights" are routine throws to wide open WR's.

I can count two plays, where it could conceivably be said, that Manziel was "bailed out" by the wide receiver. The first play, at 0:35, which was caught by #18, and the second play, which was caught by Evans at 5:50.
This does not look like someone who is "constantly" bailed out. Every other catch by a WR is pretty standard, or they are big plays with easy catches made by perfect ball placement.

He actually makes Russell Wilson look like he is running with lead in his shoes, and Wilson just won a Super Bowl because of his similar, but inferior, scrambling ability.

[ Edited by BrianGO on Apr 11, 2014 at 6:44 PM ]
  • LVJay
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HarBaalke might ponder Manziel with their very last pick (7th).

I'd take Manziel, but only for a can of Chunky soup (that's about it)!

David Fales>>>Johnny Boy
  • Kolohe
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Originally posted by BrianGO:
Originally posted by Kolohe:







In the above two highlight clips. I saw two quarterbacks, who 95% of the time, are sitting in a wide open pocket and / or throwing to wide open WR's. They look like backups in the NFL at best. Their running lanes are wide open, and they rarely make anybody miss (if they did at all). I think I saw one or two boken tackles.
They rarely throw off balance, or do anything beyond what a normal quarterback is expected to do.

In the below Manziel highlight clip (which is one of his shorter ones), I see him dodge more defenders in one PLAY, then either of the two quarterbacks above dodged in their entire highlight clips COMBINED.

Unlike the above two quarterbacks, he is constantly dealing with pockets collapsing around him in this clip. I am sure he has made throws where he had all day with a wide open WR, but those plays are not going to make his highlight clip, unlike the two quarterbacks above where most of their "highlights" are routine throws to wide open WR's.

I can count two plays, where it could conceivably be said, that Manziel was "bailed out" by the wide receiver. The first play, at 0:35, which was caught by #18, and the second play, which was caught by Evans at 5:50.
This does not look like someone who is "constantly" bailed out. Every other catch by a WR is pretty standard, or they are big plays with easy catches made by perfect ball placement.

He actually makes Russell Wilson look like he is running with lead in his shoes, and Wilson just won a Super Bowl because of his similar, but inferior, scrambling ability.


I think you totally missed the point to my post with the videos I posted. No further discussion needed.