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***Johnny Manziel thread***

Originally posted by Youngone:
This thread title needs to be changed, who made it? Lou Holtz?

Lol at the thought of Holtz lisping his way through the thread title.
Originally posted by eonblue:
I have no doubt BoB has the final say, but I don't think there's a disparity between Manziel and the rest of this class. By that I mean if Andrew Luck or RG3(or comparable talent) were in this class the choice would be easy. This class is a tier below those guys. Out of this class Manziel is the only one that has the look of franchise QB. I just don't think they'll pass that up. Both the GM and BoB. I know O'Brien wants to start on the right foot but Manziel showed that he's a competent passer. Ultimately the fans will excuse Manziel being a flop because this would essentially be there pick. They wont excuse Bortles or Bridgewater and they'll march on the FO if they're getting beat by a Manziel ran Jaguars for the next couple of years. Maybe they pick Clowney though. Him and Watt are all-pro for the next 6 years. Pick a QB at the top of the 2nd.

Btw if you look at what O'Brien was doing with Hackenburg last season you see a system that Manziel could thrive in.

1- UCF HC George O'Leary is a former mentor of BoB. This could play a factor into whether BoB believes Bortles is a franchise QB not.
2- Look at the QB's who BoB has had around him and or brought in to work with in recent history : Hoyer, Mallet, Hackenburg. All much closer to Bortles than Manziel. And they just brought in Ryan Fitzpatrick who is also closer in mold to BB than JM.
3- BoB is a team first type of coach. No individual will be bigger than the team in Houston, thus he will covet players who show a certain level of maturity. I question whether Johnny has that maturity that BoB is going to covet.

Now I am not saying they won't or shouldn't take Manziel. I see your point, and agree that JM can fit into BoB's system. Not sure I agree though that Johnny is the only QB who looks like a franchise guy, I think Bortles exudes those qualities but is going to need more time to develop than Manziel. However there are some signs that definitely point towards BoB and Johnny Manziel not being a great match for each other. I am not even convinced they take a QB with the first pick, I think between Fitz and Keenum, they could let them compete for the starting job while BoB develops whomever his guy is going to be. I also don't believe BoB will be swayed by what the fans want.
  • buck
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Originally posted by SaksV:
In context, Jerry Rice was saying that Johnny Maziel has a bit of a "fighter" attitude/spirit to him. A "chip on his shoulder" that reminds him of a Steve Young.

I saw Jerry on the NFL network when he made those statements.

I do not agree that selecting Manziel with the first pick of the draft is a no-brainer for the Texans.

They might take him with the first pick. Maybe, they should, but I think his statement is an overstatement.
Originally posted by KRS-1:
1- UCF HC George O'Leary is a former mentor of BoB. This could play a factor into whether BoB believes Bortles is a franchise QB not.
2- Look at the QB's who BoB has had around him and or brought in to work with in recent history : Hoyer, Mallet, Hackenburg. All much closer to Bortles than Manziel. And they just brought in Ryan Fitzpatrick who is also closer in mold to BB than JM.
3- BoB is a team first type of coach. No individual will be bigger than the team in Houston, thus he will covet players who show a certain level of maturity. I question whether Johnny has that maturity that BoB is going to covet.

Now I am not saying they won't or shouldn't take Manziel. I see your point, and agree that JM can fit into BoB's system. Not sure I agree though that Johnny is the only QB who looks like a franchise guy, I think Bortles exudes those qualities but is going to need more time to develop than Manziel. However there are some signs that definitely point towards BoB and Johnny Manziel not being a great match for each other. I am not even convinced they take a QB with the first pick, I think between Fitz and Keenum, they could let them compete for the starting job while BoB develops whomever his guy is going to be. I also don't believe BoB will be swayed by what the fans want.

I agree nor should he be. This pick is very important for him. It has to be a franchise player that can cement his tenure. I'm not buying that Bortles is the pick because he's the proto size. In fact if you look at O'Briens system at Penn St and mobility seems key. I mean Maziel essentially replicated his offense at his pro-day. I think it's forgone conclusion at this point. If it's not Manziel it's Clowney. Ofcourse I'm just a fan but it just seems like a fit on multiple levels more than any other prospect.
[ Edited by eonblue on Mar 28, 2014 at 8:54 AM ]
  • buck
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Originally posted by eonblue:
But it is. You can say it's not but it's a judgement on his character especially when you correlate you're statement with what you were responding to.

BrianGO said "Wilson opened the door for QBs like Manziel. Houston would be crazy not to take him" and you responded with "Wilsons a hard worker and he's dedicated. Manziel might be more dedicated to his fame". You're trying to refute BrianGOs comparison of Manziel to Wilson by saying they're [b]might
be a disparity in dedication.

You're stating you don't know about his dedication, but you're framing rebuttals around it. So why get caught up on the might? You know what you were getting at. The same thing you were getting at when you questioned Rice's comment.

You might not like Manziel.

You're not the only person that feels this way about Manziel. You're also not the only person I've argued with about him so it's all good.

There might be a disparity in dedication. I do not agree that the Texans would be crazy not to take him. There are questions about his intangibles. I think those that existence of those questions makes that claim overstated.

I am not caught up on the might. The truth is I do not know about his dedication. There are questions about his dedication, his character, his intangibles. I do not have the answers. That might seems appropriate.

Questioning the dedication of a person is not a judgment. It certainly seems less judgmental than saying somebody would be crazy not to draft Manziel with the first pick in the draft.


Rice said that drafting Manziel with the first pick was a no-brainer. I do not agree with that. I think that the Texan should, and will, think long and hard about how they use the first pick in the draft.

The fact that Rice was the best receiver in football does not necessarily mean that Rice is particularly good at player evaluation. If you think that it does, we disagree.
[ Edited by buck on Mar 28, 2014 at 9:21 AM ]
  • Kolohe
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Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by eonblue:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
No, giving a kid a million dollars when all he wants to do is party is why I wouldn't take him early.

Hes not an alcoholic. He had a quite season minus the autograph scandal at the beginning. Statistically his 2013 season beat 2012 season so he's not in a downward spiral or it would've manifeated itself on the field. All I noticed was him carrying his team to 8-4 when by all rights that defense was 0-12. Anyways beating a dead horse. I like Bridgewater and Bortles easily over Manziel but some team is going to continue the trend and pick him high because he's mobile.

I guess you continue to disregard that long article with his dad admitting that his son is indeed an acholic. And Manziel carrying his team or was it Evans and Walker bailing him out?? But yes a dead horse......shoot I can name 5 QB's I'd take over Manziel without him being a head case.
Really? Who would those be?

Manziel can make every throw in the book and obviously has the feet to escape the rush. I dont think there are any sure things among this QB group but I dont see 5 that have bigger upsides.

1. Aaron Murray (if he was healthy)

2. David Carr

3. David Fales

4. Jimmy Garoppolo

5. Connor Shaw

6. Zach Mettenberger

7. James Franklin

What makes Manziel have more upside than any of those 7 I listed??
Originally posted by Kolohe:
1. Aaron Murray (if he was healthy)

2. David Carr

3. David Fales

4. Jimmy Garoppolo

5. Connor Shaw

6. Zach Mettenberger

7. James Franklin

What makes Manziel have more upside than any of those 7 I listed??

Originally posted by Kolohe:
1. Aaron Murray (if he was healthy)

2. David Carr

3. David Fales

4. Jimmy Garoppolo

5. Connor Shaw

6. Zach Mettenberger

7. James Franklin

What makes Manziel have more upside than any of those 7 I listed??

I just farted.
  • Kolohe
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Wow what's so funny, bunch of frickin comedians in here.

All QB's mentioned have bigger arms, a good head on his shoulders, just as mobile with good pocket presence they're just not getting the hype Mr. Johnny football is getting.

We will all see who the better Pro is in the NFL.
  • buck
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Vikings coach Mike Zimmer grills Johnny Manziel on 'flags'

"We asked him all kinds of questions. We went to dinner with him the night after (his pro day).

We talked to him at the combine. There are some flags that come up," Zimmer told 104.9 The Horn, according to a transcription at 247sports.com. "All of the things that happened out in Los Angeles, the commercials and all that stuff. The position of quarterback in the NFL is such an important position and the reason these guys need to be a totally football-minded guy is the pressure of the position and being the face of an NFL team and doing everything right.

"That's the thing you want to know about him: Will he be into work early every single day? Will be the last to leave? Will he be the guy that is working the hardest to get better?"

Manziel evaluations in the weeks leading up to the May 8 draft will likely focus heavily on what's between his ears, not what's in his throwing arm.



http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000338206/article/vikings-coach-mike-zimmer-grills-johnny-manziel-on-flags
Originally posted by buck:
Vikings coach Mike Zimmer grills Johnny Manziel on 'flags'

"We asked him all kinds of questions. We went to dinner with him the night after (his pro day).

We talked to him at the combine. There are some flags that come up," Zimmer told 104.9 The Horn, according to a transcription at 247sports.com. "All of the things that happened out in Los Angeles, the commercials and all that stuff. The position of quarterback in the NFL is such an important position and the reason these guys need to be a totally football-minded guy is the pressure of the position and being the face of an NFL team and doing everything right.

"That's the thing you want to know about him: Will he be into work early every single day? Will be the last to leave? Will he be the guy that is working the hardest to get better?"

Manziel evaluations in the weeks leading up to the May 8 draft will likely focus heavily on what's between his ears, not what's in his throwing arm.



http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000338206/article/vikings-coach-mike-zimmer-grills-johnny-manziel-on-flags


Uh no and no. Lol
  • Jcool
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Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet

Source: Johnny Manziel spotted in New England, set for a visit with the #Patriots tomorrow. Agent @ErikBurkhardt would not confirm.
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by eonblue:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
No, giving a kid a million dollars when all he wants to do is party is why I wouldn't take him early.

Hes not an alcoholic. He had a quite season minus the autograph scandal at the beginning. Statistically his 2013 season beat 2012 season so he's not in a downward spiral or it would've manifeated itself on the field. All I noticed was him carrying his team to 8-4 when by all rights that defense was 0-12. Anyways beating a dead horse. I like Bridgewater and Bortles easily over Manziel but some team is going to continue the trend and pick him high because he's mobile.

I guess you continue to disregard that long article with his dad admitting that his son is indeed an acholic. And Manziel carrying his team or was it Evans and Walker bailing him out?? But yes a dead horse......shoot I can name 5 QB's I'd take over Manziel without him being a head case.
Really? Who would those be?

Manziel can make every throw in the book and obviously has the feet to escape the rush. I dont think there are any sure things among this QB group but I dont see 5 that have bigger upsides.

1. Aaron Murray (if he was healthy)

2. David Carr

3. David Fales

4. Jimmy Garoppolo

5. Connor Shaw

6. Zach Mettenberger

7. James Franklin

What makes Manziel have more upside than any of those 7 I listed??

If you gotta ask that you havent seen him play much. None of those listed come close to his pocket presence or accuracy on the run. I dunno why you even listed Shaw? Hes turrible, really turrible.
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Wow what's so funny, bunch of frickin comedians in here.

All QB's mentioned have bigger arms, a good head on his shoulders, just as mobile with good pocket presence they're just not getting the hype Mr. Johnny football is getting.

We will all see who the better Pro is in the NFL.

What??? Manziel is as mobile as Russell Wilson - Wilson would win in a sprint, but Manziel is way more elusive and has RB vision. His 40 was surprisingly slow and he plays faster than it, but his 3 cone was 6.75 which is elite (Wilson's was 6.97 which is still very good for a QB). We don't know if his playmaking ability will transfer to the NFL, but saying Mettenberger is just as mobile is inane. Some of those guys are terrible athletes. Carr could have as much upside because of his arm but the others don't and it's not even close with most of them.

You got me if this was an April Fools' joke.
The more I think about Manziel the more he seems to be a winner, not a flame out. He's had success all through sports, but still has a huge chip on his shoulder...that's a good sign if you wonder what his work ethic will be. Comes from a wealthy family and still puts out great effort. Temper may be an issue, as is overall maturity, but he's a special talent and I can see him being among the best in the NFL one day soon. He has a headiness about him that I really like in a QB. Could he flame out? Yes, that's the high risk/high reward question with a guy like this. If he were as mature as Luck or RGIII coming out there would be absolutely no question.