Wide Receiver Class of 2014

Originally posted by Pillbusta:

I love Moncrief and I am intrigued by Benjamin. I think back to ARI and how they went into SEA and beat them in the CLink. The last play Palmer just laid the ball up for Floyd and I knew that he was going to make that play because he had the size to go up box out the defender and take the ball away. Speed is one way to beat SEA at WR but size is another. I have a feeling Moncrief is underrated and that Benjamin is more raw athlete than polished WR but once he gets up to speed you might have to have an added defender helping outside with him. He looks like a monster in action on the field. As for the speed guys Watkins is out of reach but I wonder about Lee. He went to school out west and we might be in range to nab him. He can be a guy that possibly gets that separation like a TY Hilton. I just know that we need long term answers at WR and the draft is the best way to look at things. I am for two WRs at some point this draft and those 2 need to be able to best a secondary like SEA because as long as Pete is in this division we will be facing an elite secondary. We need the WRs to defeat it.

I love Moncrief. He's the guy i REALLY want. I just hope he doesn't move too far up the draft boards after the combine.

Originally posted by NinerTy:
This: big, speedy wide receiver who can get off line of scrimmage, read defenses (so he doesn't get killed by Chancellor & co. cause these guys are WHY we NEED them) who can get separation AND CATCH THE FRIGGIN BALL!!! It would be nice to get two like this but, that's a pipe dream. And, trying to find a receiver for the REDZONE, let's get TO the redzone first!

Yes, do not underestimate the hands with Kap's fastball. Nothing more frustrating than an open receiver who gets separation and can't catch. Than again, nothing more frustrating than a great hands guy who can't get open. Need hands, speed, and the ability to get off the LOS. Duh, right? But who is the best combo of these three...maybe Landry.

I'm hoping for Mike Evans from Texas A&M. Dude is a beast. Goes up and fights for the ball with his 6'5 frame.

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:

What round is Mike Evans slated to go?

That dude is a beast

Ha, just saw this. Totally agree. I'd endorse trading up for him.

Originally posted by communist:
I prefer a nfl-ready speedster over a nfl-ready possession receiver in general and I certainly prefer a ready WR over a project in the first round. Almost everyone here complains about our WR-coach but everyone seems to think that we can coach up Benjamin so good that he will be a tremendous WR??? Does not sound logical to me.

Looking at the guys who will be at the end of the first and second rounds it appears the niners will be able to take good WRs along the way. I'm not sure why you think Benjamin is slow--the sites I read predict around 4.5 or better. That's fast enough if he runs routes and gets off the line quickly. It's usually not straight line speed that determines a receivers success in getting open.

You sound like you have personally taped all the receivers and know who is fast and who is not. You spoke in absolutes and that indicates you have made up your mind where all the players should be drafted...just too certain I believe. If you have really done all the work to be certain...watched every player on multiple tapes, knew their real times--both straightline and football speed, and had interviewed them to know if they are great character guys...then OK, I bow to your greater knowledge.

If you were suggesting trading up for a top receiver rather than taking Benjamin...OK. But if all the mocks have Benjamin anywhere from 20 to 30...

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by communist:

I prefer a nfl-ready speedster over a nfl-ready possession receiver in general and I certainly prefer a ready WR over a project in the first round. Almost everyone here complains about our WR-coach but everyone seems to think that we can coach up Benjamin so good that he will be a tremendous WR??? Does not sound logical to me.

Looking at the guys who will be at the end of the first and second rounds it appears the niners will be able to take good WRs along the way. I'm not sure why you think Benjamin is slow--the sites I read predict around 4.5 or better. That's fast enough if he runs routes and gets off the line quickly. It's usually not straight line speed that determines a receivers success in getting open.

You sound like you have personally taped all the receivers and know who is fast and who is not. You spoke in absolutes and that indicates you have made up your mind where all the players should be drafted...just too certain I believe. If you have really done all the work to be certain...watched every player on multiple tapes, knew their real times--both straightline and football speed, and had interviewed them to know if they are great character guys...then OK, I bow to your greater knowledge.

If you were suggesting trading up for a top receiver rather than taking Benjamin...OK. But if all the mocks have Benjamin anywhere from 20 to 30...

The combine will help clear up some issues about the speed of this year's wide receiving class.

Well, at least the Combine will give us some common numbers, but it will not, by itself, answer questions about what speed is fast enough.

Still have not seen the Combine receiver drills or events yet, but I would like us to get two of the following:

Matthews
Robinson
Landry
Moncrief
Cooks
Adams
Abbrederis

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Looking at the guys who will be at the end of the first and second rounds it appears the niners will be able to take good WRs along the way. I'm not sure why you think Benjamin is slow--the sites I read predict around 4.5 or better. That's fast enough if he runs routes and gets off the line quickly. It's usually not straight line speed that determines a receivers success in getting open.

You sound like you have personally taped all the receivers and know who is fast and who is not. You spoke in absolutes and that indicates you have made up your mind where all the players should be drafted...just too certain I believe. If you have really done all the work to be certain...watched every player on multiple tapes, knew their real times--both straightline and football speed, and had interviewed them to know if they are great character guys...then OK, I bow to your greater knowledge.

If you were suggesting trading up for a top receiver rather than taking Benjamin...OK. But if all the mocks have Benjamin anywhere from 20 to 30...

first of all, I dont care what all the mocks are saying. A lot of them failed big-time last year when it came down to where Geno Smith will be picked. And in general it is not about where he will be picked but what he is worth for a certain team NOW.

No, I certainly haven't watched all of his games. But what I've seen is some inconsistency and that he is kind of sluggish. Also, iirc, he doesn't catch everything, incl. the easy ones.
For the Niners in particular, he is not worth a first-rounder or even a high second-rounder, imho.

And you are right that I dont know him personally at all. A blue-collar work ethic would help his draft ranking a lot and it would be very helpful for any team.

Just one more: you seem to misinterpret me. I don't mock him to fall out of the first-round. It is just my personal opinion that I don't see him gone during day one.

Originally posted by buck:
The combine will help clear up some issues about the speed of this year's wide receiving class.

Well, at least the Combine will give us some common numbers, but it will not, by itself, answer questions about what speed is fast enough.

True! I think the combine is overblown and have watched for years as players jump up right after the combine and then settle back a week or so afterwards. Scouts who have watched all their games will be able to discuss football speed, which Rice had despite his so-so straight-line speed. That's why I think it's important to consider strength of DBs they played against...but not just teams. Have they been shut down by the better DBs? Or have they been able to get separation against the best. Of course, it's not always their fault if they didn't play against the best!

Originally posted by communist:
first of all, I dont care what all the mocks are saying. A lot of them failed big-time last year when it came down to where Geno Smith will be picked. And in general it is not about where he will be picked but what he is worth for a certain team NOW.

No, I certainly haven't watched all of his games. But what I've seen is some inconsistency and that he is kind of sluggish. Also, iirc, he doesn't catch everything, incl. the easy ones.
For the Niners in particular, he is not worth a first-rounder or even a high second-rounder, imho.

And you are right that I dont know him personally at all. A blue-collar work ethic would help his draft ranking a lot and it would be very helpful for any team.

Just one more: you seem to misinterpret me. I don't mock him to fall out of the first-round. It is just my personal opinion that I don't see him gone during day one.

I'm being a bit argumentative toward no purpose...sorry. But...isn't there always a but?...I can listen to people who absolutely rave about a player and then turn around and hear folks talking about them as if they are bums. Gets old after a while so I like to read comparisons rather than judgments.

What's up with Brandon Coleman? How come he wasn't very productive. He's a big and fast guy. Sloppy route runner? Bad hands? Might be worth a late round flier

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

True! I think the combine is overblown and have watched for years as players jump up right after the combine and then settle back a week or so afterwards. Scouts who have watched all their games will be able to discuss football speed, which Rice had despite his so-so straight-line speed. That's why I think it's important to consider strength of DBs they played against...but not just teams. Have they been shut down by the better DBs? Or have they been able to get separation against the best. Of course, it's not always their fault if they didn't play against the best!

The times for the 40 are certainly overblown.

On the other hand, I do think the wide receiver drills at the combine are more useful.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

That's why I think it's important to consider strength of DBs they played against...but not just teams. Have they been shut down by the better DBs? Or have they been able to get separation against the best.

I think that knowing how they played against better cornerbacks would be very useful.

But, I do not know of any site that has those breakdowns.

I'm starting to think Benjamin is the perfect WR for Kap. I'm a huge Kap guy, I think he has the potential to be special, for a young player thats about as good as the compliment gets. However, one of his deficiencies is his ability to hit the deep ball. There for I think a speedy WR is not a good fit. Speedy guys tend to be small and get pushed around, that will happen a lot more than a clean release from the slot. To me it doesnt make sense, we need to fit Kap with weapons that suit his game.

Baalke is probably going to have to trade up to about 20-22 to get him, I see him giving up #30 and our 4th to do it. I'm also thinking he is going to draft 2 corners early. with both 2nds. Purifoy/Roberson then Roby/Verrett combination. This CB pool is deep and should be pounced on early then forgotten about. Can either re-up Whitner to a deal that looks big with insentives he will never hit, then draft a project on the 3rd day.

Originally posted by buck:
The times for the 40 are certainly overblown.

On the other hand, I do think the wide receiver drills at the combine are more useful.

Yes, the agility...change of direction drills are my favorite, but unless you are there personally it's really impossible to evaluate them. TV really skews things.

Originally posted by buck:
I think that knowing how they played against better cornerbacks would be very useful.

But, I do not know of any site that has those breakdowns.

No, I think scouts who attend games have that info but they don't publicize it anywhere as far as I know.