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Wide Receiver Class of 2014

I sure like Cooks' ability to get off the LOS and make big plays. His receptions, yds and TD's are definitely impressive (128, 1730, 16 TD's). He'd give us speed & production, two things our passing attack can really use. As noted somewhere else in a post, a guy like Cooks could give even the best cover CB's (a la Sherman) real trouble. Huff is also attractive because of his speed and ability to make tough catches. Also like LSU's Beckham.
Originally posted by communist:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Exactly. Plus, we already have 3 solid possession types in Boldin, Crabs and Patton. With the exception of Patton though (and even he's not a speed demon), we don't have anyone who can consistently threaten the secondary and that absolutely has to change.
For the guys who still don't get it:
(over)-agressive defenses are vulnerable to speed and quickness. Just spend a look at the run by Gore against Seattle back in december.

Understood. Based on that criteria, who would you target in the WR class to add to the Niners roster? Here would be my targets:

Marquise Lee USC Round 1
Odell Beckham LSU Round 1/2
Brandin Cooks Oregon St Round 1/2
Davante Adams Fresno St Round 1/2
Robert Herron Wyomin Round 2/3
Jared Abbrederis Wisconsin Round 3
Josh Huff Oregon Round 3/4
Mike Davis Texas Round 4
TJ Jones Notre Dame Round 4/5
Cody Latimer Indianan Round 5
Josh Stewart Oklahoma St Round 6
Tevin Reese Baylor Round 7
Dri Archer Kent St Round 7

Did I miss anyone in your opinion?
Lee, Beckham, Abbrederis, Cooks and Herron would be my favourites. Any of them will be available in at least one of the first three rounds though I assume a run on this type of WR. I think that the NFL teams recognized Seattle's weakness. i.e. too agressive at times and lack of quickness.
--->Would not wait too long.

My opinion whether you miss anyone? I am not a scout ;) I don't know everyone

edit: seconds ago, I've read the following info about Cooks:
Struggles with physical defenders and doesn't have ideal body strength - will be overwhelmed in man coverage. Looks to avoid contact and would much rather escape out of bounds or go around defenses.
a absolute no-go in our division.
[ Edited by communist on Feb 5, 2014 at 2:43 PM ]
Originally posted by m_brockalexander:
Understood. Based on that criteria, who would you target in the WR class to add to the Niners roster? Here would be my targets:

Marquise Lee USC Round 1
Odell Beckham LSU Round 1/2
Brandin Cooks Oregon St Round 1/2
Davante Adams Fresno St Round 1/2
Robert Herron Wyomin Round 2/3
Jared Abbrederis Wisconsin Round 3
Josh Huff Oregon Round 3/4
Mike Davis Texas Round 4
TJ Jones Notre Dame Round 4/5
Cody Latimer Indianan Round 5
Josh Stewart Oklahoma St Round 6
Tevin Reese Baylor Round 7
Dri Archer Kent St Round 7

Did I miss anyone in your opinion?

Moncrief, who I'd put in front of almost everyone on that list other than Lee, Cooks and Beckham.
^
My personal favorites:

Marquise Lee - top 20/25
Odell Beckham Jr. - late 1st/early 2nd
Robert Herron - late 2nd/early 3rd
Martavis Bryant - late 2nd/early 3rd (more speed than quickness)
Paul Richardson - late 2nd/early 3rd
Jared Abbrederis - 3rd (quicker than fast, but he's faster than you'd expect)
Bruce Ellington - 3rd/4th
De'Anthony Thomas, 3rd-5th
Jalen Saunders, 5th-7th
George Atkinson III - 6th/7th (yes, I think he's better off being developed as a WR/KR than a RB)
Diontae Spencer, McNeese St. - UDFA
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Moncrief, who I'd put in front of almost everyone on that list other than Lee, Cooks and Beckham.


No Bryant before end of the 3rd plz. Honestly, I would not take him even then.
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
^
My personal favorites:

Marquise Lee - top 20/25
Odell Beckham Jr. - late 1st/early 2nd
Robert Herron - late 2nd/early 3rd
Martavis Bryant - late 2nd/early 3rd (more speed than quickness)
Paul Richardson - late 2nd/early 3rd
Jared Abbrederis - 3rd (quicker than fast, but he's faster than you'd expect)
Bruce Ellington - 3rd/4th
De'Anthony Thomas, 3rd-5th
Jalen Saunders, 5th-7th
George Atkinson III - 6th/7th (yes, I think he's better off being developed as a WR/KR than a RB)
Diontae Spencer, McNeese St. - UDFA

I think Bryant is a big mistake unless a team is prepared to use him pretty much the same way the 49ers used Randy Moss. Tell him to go run deep and that is about it. He's too similar to Baldwin in terms of his overall game, he's a long-strider, a vertical threat but not a guy I expect to routinely break out of coverage and get open deep, mostly, not someone I expect to really work into this offense the way someone like Landry, Abbrederis or even Robinson would.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
^
My personal favorites:

Marquise Lee - top 20/25
Odell Beckham Jr. - late 1st/early 2nd
Robert Herron - late 2nd/early 3rd
Martavis Bryant - late 2nd/early 3rd (more speed than quickness)
Paul Richardson - late 2nd/early 3rd
Jared Abbrederis - 3rd (quicker than fast, but he's faster than you'd expect)
Bruce Ellington - 3rd/4th
De'Anthony Thomas, 3rd-5th
Jalen Saunders, 5th-7th
George Atkinson III - 6th/7th (yes, I think he's better off being developed as a WR/KR than a RB)
Diontae Spencer, McNeese St. - UDFA

I think Bryant is a big mistake unless a team is prepared to use him pretty much the same way the 49ers used Randy Moss. Tell him to go run deep and that is about it. He's too similar to Baldwin in terms of his overall game, he's a long-strider, a vertical threat but not a guy I expect to routinely break out of coverage and get open deep, mostly, not someone I expect to really work into this offense the way someone like Landry, Abbrederis or even Robinson would.

We'll agree to disagree on Bryant though your point about Randy Moss isn't too far off. I'm working on a breakdown of his skills/abilities and think he's a huge upside guy that may never be a true #1, but has the potential to be a game-breaker and secondary disruptor. The only thing I can't tell is what his motivation level is, because the tools are all there.

That said, if you made me choose between Bryant and Abberderis, I'd choose JA every day and twice on Sundays because I know exactly what I'm getting in him.
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by 4evrfan:
All this talk of which and what type of receiver is fun and enlightening BUT, our coaching staff hasn't had a great track record of either choosing and/or developing receivers and if that doesn't change, we'd better get as NFL-ready a guy(s) as we can, 'cause the coaching ain't gonna be much help!!! And forgive me, but we also need our QB to time his throws better, ie when the receiver is actually breaking open and not 2 or seconds later when the DB is in a position to make a play. He also needs to see the field better and note the "other guy" who oftentimes IS open, as in that horrible last play when Crabs was covered by their best, if not THE best corner, while we had a wide open guy (Patton?) at the other side of the 'zone. The problem is not all receiver folks. While I admit we need to draft one, I don't think we have such a desperate need for two, unless a quality second guy is there for the taking, of course. But then again, would our draft braintrust recognize him?

Not sure if 3 years is enough of a window to truly call it a "track record," though you're correct in that the results so far in drafting/developing WRs definitely isn't good. I think Patton will turn out fine and IF we ever decide to throw the ball more (which to me is the bigger issue), there should be catches available for more than just Boldin and Vernon.

Enough of a track record to instill a certain lack of confidence, at least for me, that is. And I wholeheartedly agree about throwing the ball more, but also to more receivers. Kap sometimes has his "favorite" of the game and zones in on him a bit too much, while neglecting the others.
  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 11,020
Draft Scouting Report – Kelvin Benjamin, WR Florida State


http://withthefirstpick.com/2014/02/04/2014-nfl-draft-scouting-report-kelvin-benjamin-wr-florida-state/
Originally posted by 4evrfan:
Enough of a track record to instill a certain lack of confidence, at least for me, that is. And I wholeheartedly agree about throwing the ball more, but also to more receivers. Kap sometimes has his "favorite" of the game and zones in on him a bit too much, while neglecting the others.

No it isn't. Patton looks like a very good prospect, someone who will be a very good NFL receiver. Jenkins was a bust, but once again, busts happen, you'll miss on more picks than you'll hit on, that is just reality. Johnson I don't even look at since that was done more to keep Morton from b***hing than anything else.
Originally posted by buck:
Draft Scouting Report – Kelvin Benjamin, WR Florida State


http://withthefirstpick.com/2014/02/04/2014-nfl-draft-scouting-report-kelvin-benjamin-wr-florida-state/

Not sure how people evaluate WRs for the draft but I would think there are some key elements that help:

1) strength of opponents/DBs in this case
2) career numbers--being successful over several years
3) measurables--height, speed, jumping ability, strength
4) intangibles--highlight film catches, determination when the ball is in the air

Last year the niners drafted Jenkins, who was somewhat lacking in several of these categories. Average height, below average weight/strength, decent speed, one good year and one really good year in college. Not sure what Baalke saw that jumped out at him but I trusted his judgement. Was he wrong? Only time will tell, but the team evidently thinks so.

Benjamin is fast, tall, strong, and productive...What's not to like? If the niners can get him around the same pick as Jenkins...I would be ecstatic! Rang has him going at #30, while Brugler has him going at 27 on the CBS site. Do they trade up to make sure?
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Not sure how people evaluate WRs for the draft but I would think there are some key elements that help:

1) strength of opponents/DBs in this case
2) career numbers--being successful over several years
3) measurables--height, speed, jumping ability, strength
4) intangibles--highlight film catches, determination when the ball is in the air

Last year the niners drafted Jenkins, who was somewhat lacking in several of these categories. Average height, below average weight/strength, decent speed, one good year and one really good year in college. Not sure what Baalke saw that jumped out at him but I trusted his judgement. Was he wrong? Only time will tell, but the team evidently thinks so.

Benjamin is fast, tall, strong, and productive...What's not to like? If the niners can get him around the same pick as Jenkins...I would be ecstatic! Rang has him going at #30, while Brugler has him going at 27 on the CBS site. Do they trade up to make sure?


One of the best systems I saw for evaluating wide receivers from a few years ago broke down as the following:



1. Production based on college system and QB performance.

2. Weight, strength and speed.

3. Quality of hands/drop percentage

4. Route running ability

5. Height



I need to see if I can find the copy I had on PDF, it was quite fascinating and made a good argument that physical size, weight, actually indicated potential success more than height did. College production was a huge factor, they had a nifty way of ranking based on performance against tougher defense's as well as accounting for lousy QB performance. There was a huge emphasis on weight, statistically speaking, a guy that is 5'10 and 200 pounds was shown to be a lot more likely to be successful than a guy who was 6"0 and 190. They didn't nearly find the same correlation with height or other factors.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Feb 5, 2014 at 7:49 PM ]
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Not sure how people evaluate WRs for the draft but I would think there are some key elements that help:

1) strength of opponents/DBs in this case
2) career numbers--being successful over several years
3) measurables--height, speed, jumping ability, strength
4) intangibles--highlight film catches, determination when the ball is in the air

Last year the niners drafted Jenkins, who was somewhat lacking in several of these categories. Average height, below average weight/strength, decent speed, one good year and one really good year in college. Not sure what Baalke saw that jumped out at him but I trusted his judgement. Was he wrong? Only time will tell, but the team evidently thinks so.

Benjamin is fast, tall, strong, and productive...What's not to like? If the niners can get him around the same pick as Jenkins...I would be ecstatic! Rang has him going at #30, while Brugler has him going at 27 on the CBS site. Do they trade up to make sure?

Did u say Benjamin is fast?? No way
[ Edited by kronik on Feb 5, 2014 at 8:05 PM ]
Originally posted by kronik:
Did u say Benjamin is fast?? No way

He's got decent speed, certainly faster than Mike Evans, but another long strider. As much as people hype up big, physical wide receivers, the only one I've found that had any real success against Seattle was Brandon Marshall and more than half his yards came from two broken plays, including one where Sherman was uncharacteristically sloppy, pulled a Whitner trying to go for a game-ending pick.

Speed and quickness, speed and quickness, you get guys to a spot faster than their DB's can get there, you have them take so many twists and turns, make cuts so sharp that they can't hold up and pretty soon you got guys running wide open all over the place.