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Wide Receiver Class of 2014

Is trading up for Watkins realistic?
Originally posted by Wisconsin49erfan:
Is trading up for Watkins realistic?

No. I think it would cost way too much at this point. To trade up for Julio Jones, the Falcons gave up 5 picks, 2 1st rounders, a 2nd rounder and 2 4th rounders. They haven't really done anything and their defense has holes all over it, soon they'll have to talk extension with Jones and that means they will have to let someone else go as well.



In the end, I would argue that Atlanta would have been far better off keeping those picks and doing as follows-


2011-First Round-Cameron Jordan-DE-Cal
2011-Second Round-Torrey Smith-WR-Maryland
2011-Fourth Round-Richard Sherman-CB-Stanford
2012-First Rounder-Whitney Mercilus-DE-Illinois
2012-Fourth Rounder-Brandin Boykin-CB-Georgia




Now I know hindsight is 20/20 but when you look back at the opportunity that the Falcons gave up to acquire Jones, its clear that any combination of even 2 of those guys along with Smith makes them a better team TODAY. You're talking 1 WR versus a starting WR, 2 starting DE's and 2 starting CB's. I'll take the latter everytime.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Jan 22, 2014 at 1:56 PM ]
If lee falls 15-20 we would be silly not to trade up for him
Originally posted by outside4949:
If lee falls 15-20 we would be silly not to trade up for him

Agree. Betwwen 15-20 would be a good place to trade up with out losing too many current or future picks.
[ Edited by BigYellowKahuna on Jan 22, 2014 at 2:22 PM ]
Originally posted by Wisconsin49erfan:
Is trading up for Watkins realistic?

Anything is possible but as Phoenix states, it would cost too much. I rather use our picks to move up to pick up targeted players or to trade down to build picks for depth for next year.
i think we should not be too aggressive...lee would b a great move and we should use our chips to get him or another fast reciever, as well as a top physical corner

i would just love to finally draft an excellent receiver (besides crabs who fell in our laps) that we scout and get the jenkins vibe out of the front office
The first two rounds is for defense and offensive tackle. WR comes third round or later. I want a big Alvin Harper type who can run the out and out jump Richard Sherman on the sidelines. He has to have big hands too.
It would be tough to give up the numbers of picks indicated in the Atlanta deal as detailed by Phoenix. Is one player worth it? Of course, Baalke might be able to pull off a more palatable trade...but he isn't a wizard!

Imagine giving up Reid, Carradine, Patton, Lattimore, and this year's first rounder for Tavon Austin! Just not a good gamble. Watkins has more potential than Austin but still...not a deal I would make for any one player. If there were no salary cap and the team could outbid for FAs...maybe! The days of Eddie D!
Also keep in mind that the Falcons traded up from 22, 49ers would be trading up from 30, that's like another extra 3rd rounder thrown in.

Would people be comfortable trading 2 1st rounders, a 2nd rounder, a 3rd rounder and a couple mid-rounders for a guy who is talented, but for all we know, could be a huge bust. Stranger things have happened. That would be enough to cripple this team long-term. If you want to stay ahead of the salary cap crunch where you inevitably have to start cutting people that you REALLY want to keep, you have to keep; reloading through the draft, every single season. If you look at New England, even though they've had some bad picks, their philosophy has been to keep pushing it forward, a 1st rounder next year is better than a 2nd rounder this year, as such they've been able to keep themselves consistently competitive even though they've had a lot of misses.

I like what Baalke has done, if he really likes a guy, he'll trade up but the damage is confined to that draft. The 49ers liked Reid, they gave up a 3rd round pick in the same draft to acquire him, they didn't cost themselves any picks in this draft. The key to success I think is continually having extra picks to work with, to keep building for future drafts, to have your options open.

When the 49ers finally fell apart, a lot of people blamed the salary cap and to an extent that was true but what was seemingly ignored is that they were drafting like crap and as a result, couldn't beat that salary cap crunch when it came and it hit pretty hard. From the mid-90's on the 49ers drafting was really hit or miss with some badly bungled picks.

1995, with the exception of Stokes, who never played up to his draft position, was an epic bust.

1996 featured Owens and the rest were all failures in the NFL.

1997 they had a total of 3 picks and Druckenmiller was a huge bust.

1998 was a relatively good year for the most part even though McQuarters only turned into a quality player after he had left SF.

1999, epic bust.

2000 was a solid draft.

2001, with the exception of Carter and Johnson, huge bust.

And on and on, you need to do well in terms of the draft and you need to constantly have a supply of picks to reload your roster as you will keep losing guys to free agency, its inevitable but if you can draft decently, because nobody is ever perfect, even in Baltimore they've blown whole drafts, you can remain a winning team for a decade or longer with the right people in charge and I think the 49ers have that with Baalke who has proven to be an astute talent evaluator.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Jan 22, 2014 at 4:25 PM ]
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by verb1der:
Well out of the tall WRs in this class, who do you think is the most ready? I just hope we draft a really tall dude

Allen Robinson and Jordan Matthews to me are the most game-ready guys. Moncrief is also intriguing to me but his route-running was very limited at Ole Miss. If he puts it all together though, he's got Josh Gordon like size and ability.


I still don't get the obsession with height. If you're looking at a team like Seattle, their Achilles heel is speed and quickness. This is something a lot of people have attested to, that one of the key ways of beating that defense is to get a fast receiver in motion and beat them down field, when you do that, you either get someone completely wide open downfield or you pull their one deep safety away to expose the middle further.

The biggest matchup issue the 49ers are lacking on offense is speed, speed at RB and speed at WR. They need someone that Seattle and other teams will legitimately worry about beating them deep. Right now VD is the only guy on offense with any real speed.

Simple answer. I want somebody that can go up and over every DB. And having somebody that can KO Sherman would be nice!!
Originally posted by JoeisGod:
The first two rounds is for defense and offensive tackle. WR comes third round or later. I want a big Alvin Harper type who can run the out and out jump Richard Sherman on the sidelines. He has to have big hands too.

Which brings up the question of what we value more in a WR: size, strength or speed. I think Crabs is already a really good possession receiver. And I said this when we traded for Boldin...so is Boldin.

We really needed a vertical threat WR. Someone who will separation on a 9 route and we still do.
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by verb1der:
Right on! I will look into those guys.

I just feel like small guys are easy to jam at the line, we all know how seattle puts hands on people!

That's a good point too, but that is why you have a speed guy that you put in the slot or get them in motion, move them around, if you have Rewind, go watch how Indy used Hilton and why he was such a problem for them in spite of going up against the much bigger and more physical Brandon Browner.

Great point! Hilton did have success against them. Question now is whether or not Baalke knows what he's looking for in a WR.

Although this example clearly didn't work out, Baalke DID try to get a receiver with some speed in AJ Jenkins lol. His heart is in the right place. He just jumped for him too early (arguably) and the guy just didn't have that "want to" in him.

If it wasn't for Jordan Matthews, I'd be on the trade down bandwagon, but because I want him (and there is also the fear that Seattle may take one of the receivers that will be available at 31 or 32), if he's available at 31, we should take him. That would give us four possession type of receivers for next season (Anquan Boldin who I'm assuming we will resign, Michael Crabtree who's under contract for one more season, Quinton Patton who does have some shiftiness to him, and Jordan Matthews). After that we should use one or two draft picks on some burners with top end speed that defenses would be forced to account for.

I do believe Baalke know's what he's looking for in a receiver. Unfortunately, the pick was a failure. I don't think he will make the same mistake again. In the little we have seen of Quinton Patton, who doesn't like what he has shown thus far? My bigger fear is that whoever Baalke drafts, the coaching staff will not use him.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
It would be tough to give up the numbers of picks indicated in the Atlanta deal as detailed by Phoenix. Is one player worth it? Of course, Baalke might be able to pull off a more palatable trade...but he isn't a wizard!

Imagine giving up Reid, Carradine, Patton, Lattimore, and this year's first rounder for Tavon Austin! Just not a good gamble. Watkins has more potential than Austin but still...not a deal I would make for any one player. If there were no salary cap and the team could outbid for FAs...maybe! The days of Eddie D!

This is a GREAT example to get people to understand the impact of trading up into the top 10. I don't think anyone would sign up for that trade, no matter who the player was. If all of the polished receivers are gone by the time pick 30 comes around, I think I'm on the trade down bandwagon to acquire the extra 3rd round pick.
  • buck
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Originally posted by kray28:
Which brings up the question of what we value more in a WR: size, strength or speed. I think Crabs is already a really good possession receiver. And I said this when we traded for Boldin...so is Boldin.

We really needed a vertical threat WR. Someone who will separation on a 9 route and we still do.

First, I would look for:

Solid work ethic.
Good hands.
Coachability.
Disciplined route running.
Good situational football awareness.

Then I would look at size, speed, etc.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by Wisconsin49erfan:
Is trading up for Watkins realistic?

No. I think it would cost way too much at this point. To trade up for Julio Jones, the Falcons gave up 5 picks, 2 1st rounders, a 2nd rounder and 2 4th rounders. They haven't really done anything and their defense has holes all over it, soon they'll have to talk extension with Jones and that means they will have to let someone else go as well.



In the end, I would argue that Atlanta would have been far better off keeping those picks and doing as follows-


2011-First Round-Cameron Jordan-DE-Cal
2011-Second Round-Torrey Smith-WR-Maryland
2011-Fourth Round-Richard Sherman-CB-Stanford
2012-First Rounder-Whitney Mercilus-DE-Illinois
2012-Fourth Rounder-Brandin Boykin-CB-Georgia




Now I know hindsight is 20/20 but when you look back at the opportunity that the Falcons gave up to acquire Jones, its clear that any combination of even 2 of those guys along with Smith makes them a better team TODAY. You're talking 1 WR versus a starting WR, 2 starting DE's and 2 starting CB's. I'll take the latter everytime.

I reaaally like how in every scenario that you mention what Atl did in trading up for Julio,you conviently leave out they have a $100+ million QB on their roster.lol i think THAT has a whole lot more to do with how strapped ATL is after the trade.And lets not even mention some of their injuries in 2013.

With that contract in mind,who do we have on our roster that is getting paid that much,or at least projects to command a contract like Ryans??I say no one.Paraag n the boys philosophy has always been to extend guys on the cheap WELL ENOUGH before they ever reach a point to command $100M.

With that being said,i do not believe our situation would be as dire as some would like to make it out to be.Our situation is not ATL's,and vice versa.Apples to Oranges imho,IJS (smile)
[ Edited by VDpwndMjenkins on Jan 26, 2014 at 9:55 PM ]