MadDog's 2013 NFL Draft Review

MD you seem to be especially proud of the following:

-advocating for JJ Watt over Aldon Smith...the rub is you had no idea aldon smith would get 19 sacks in his 2nd season. Your projection of Aldon is no where near the dominant reality of aldon smith. Its too early to say JJ watt was the right pick...they are both pretty dominant, watt had a better year last year but they've only completed 2yrs and are both premier players so this boasting makes no sense

-you suggest you knew taylor mays would suck. sorry but everyone knew....

-did you call for us to draft kaepernick last year? did you advocate for navarro bowman 3yrs ago? did you find bruce miller? etc etc

you seem to be knocking baalke down which is ridiuculous

Originally posted by iLL49er:
MD you seem to be especially proud of the following:

-advocating for JJ Watt over Aldon Smith...the rub is you had no idea aldon smith would get 19 sacks in his 2nd season. Your projection of Aldon is no where near the dominant reality of aldon smith. Its too early to say JJ watt was the right pick...they are both pretty dominant, watt had a better year last year but they've only completed 2yrs and are both premier players so this boasting makes no sense

-you suggest you knew taylor mays would suck. sorry but everyone knew....

-did you call for us to draft kaepernick last year? did you advocate for navarro bowman 3yrs ago? did you find bruce miller? etc etc

you seem to be knocking baalke down which is ridiuculous

http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/140843-taylor-mays-is-a-niner/search=taylor%20mays

you would be surprised

MadDog, it would be fun if you posted in the grading of the 2010 draft and compare your picks to Baalke. I don't remember who you picked, and considering that Baalke did an A+ draft, chances are he beat you that year. But it would still be fun to see how well you did draft in 2010.

One other thing that would be interesting to see. We can all agree that the 49er organization has access to more information than a draftnik does. Yet, I wonder if more information at times actually causes poorer decisions since you may put more value in hidden information than what the player produced on the field. What does it say about the experts if a draftnik can beat them?

Originally posted by iLL49er:
ask him, i've asked him on another thread if he has coaches tape and he said no but some colleges will send you coaches tape. from MD's mouth not mine. he can confirm he said this

OK.

That sounds even stranger, but ....

Apparently you missed Jesse Williams has a degenerative knee disorder that removed him from several teams draft boards. One cannot draft in the second round that might not be playing beyond a few years.

It is easy to throw stones, and I think my draft was superior to yours maddog, especially if I could look in the proverbial crystal ball. But one cannot.

Reid was the niners number one safety on their board. He is a centerfielder that will not be flagged for helmet to helmet hits. Vaccarro was off the board they had to act.

Have you seen McDonalds tape?? He is ideal for the modified pistol offense the Niners are running. He ran reverses in college, lined up everywhere on the field. I am predicting right now that he will become a solid TE, making everyone forget about Delanie.

Lattimore- one of the top RB's on the board in the 4th round. A+. very little committed money, does not have to see the field in 2013.

Originally posted by buck:

Originally posted by Rascal:

• Then, we drafted 3 DL and 2 LBs which I thought was just way excessive. Sure, they wanted a DL, I will give them that, but 3 was just too much.

I only see one linebacker, but Lemonier was drafted to be a linebacker, so that makes two linebackers.
But, if we count him as a linebacker, then we only have 2 defensive ends--Carradine and Dial.

You are right 3 DL and 2 LBS is excessive. You miscounted.

Eric Reid FS
Cornellius Carradine DE
Vance McDonald TE
Corey Lemonier DE
Quinton Patton WR
Marcus Lattimore RB
Quinton Dial DE
Nick Moody OLB
B.J. Daniels QB
Carter Bykowski
Marcus Cooper CB

OK, I miscounted, thank you, but I still think is excessive.

But, the point is with 13 picks, we didn't exactly walk away from the draft like wow the 9ers cleaned up big time if you will which many had expected.

You look at the Rams and Vikings and you go whatttt !! A huge difference there without a doubt.

Originally posted by iLL49er:

MD you seem to be especially proud of the following:

-advocating for JJ Watt over Aldon Smith...the rub is you had no idea aldon smith would get 19 sacks in his 2nd season. Your projection of Aldon is no where near the dominant reality of aldon smith. Its too early to say JJ watt was the right pick...they are both pretty dominant, watt had a better year last year but they've only completed 2yrs and are both premier players so this boasting makes no sense

-you suggest you knew taylor mays would suck. sorry but everyone knew....

-did you call for us to draft kaepernick last year? did you advocate for navarro bowman 3yrs ago? did you find bruce miller? etc etc

you seem to be knocking baalke down which is ridiuculous

Actually the Watt over Smith pick is the biggest misconception out there. What he initially advocated was trading the 1st and 3rd (turned out to be Smith and Culliver) and whatever else it would have taken to move up for PP. So he was actually for bypassing both Smith AND Watt for PP.

And no, he was not a fan of the Bowman pick either. Said it wasnt good value for a player that was ill suited for the 3-4. Same analysis for Kaep but in terms of the offense.

Originally posted by Rascal:
OK, I miscounted, thank you, but I still think is excessive.

But, the point is with 13 picks, we didn't exactly walk away from the draft like wow the 9ers cleaned up big time if you will which many had expected.

You look at the Rams and Vikings and you go whatttt !! A huge difference there without a doubt.

You welcome.

A few things.

Most people grading drafts are giving the 49ers very high scores. There is another thread with a listing of the various grades.
I have to get to work so I can not find it right now.

Much of your grade is based on the fact that the 49ers did not pick the players you wanted. They did not pick any of the players that I wanted either.
But, what I wanted or what you wanted is not very relevent to the grade they should get.

This year I am not attempting to grade the draft. I am going to wait and see how it turns out.
The discussions are interesting, seriously it takes two or three years to honestly evaluate a draft.

In three years, your grade might prove to be correct.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Actually the Watt over Smith pick is the biggest misconception out there. What he initially advocated was trading the 1st and 3rd (turned out to be Smith and Culliver) and whatever else it would have taken to move up for PP. So he was actually for bypassing both Smith AND Watt for PP.

And no, he was not a fan of the Bowman pick either. Said it wasnt good value for a player that was ill suited for the 3-4. Same analysis for Kaep but in terms of the offense.

So basically he would have passed on 4 all pros and preferred a badass punt returner who can't cover crabtree.

Yeah that's out baalkeing for sure....

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
Actually the Watt over Smith pick is the biggest misconception out there. What he initially advocated was trading the 1st and 3rd (turned out to be Smith and Culliver) and whatever else it would have taken to move up for PP. So he was actually for bypassing both Smith AND Watt for PP.

And no, he was not a fan of the Bowman pick either. Said it wasnt good value for a player that was ill suited for the 3-4. Same analysis for Kaep but in terms of the offense.

MD gave Bowman a "D-" grade, one step above an F. Lower than the D, he gave to Mays.

Aldon Smith got a C grade, Kaepernick got a C, and Culliver got C+ and Miller an F.

MD is a history teacher, I hope he is better with his kids than he is with Baalke.

Originally posted by buck:

Originally posted by Rascal:
OK, I miscounted, thank you, but I still think is excessive.

But, the point is with 13 picks, we didn't exactly walk away from the draft like wow the 9ers cleaned up big time if you will which many had expected.

You look at the Rams and Vikings and you go whatttt !! A huge difference there without a doubt.

You welcome.

A few things.

Most people grading drafts are giving the 49ers very high scores. There is another thread with a listing of the various grades.
I have to get to work so I can not find it right now.

Much of your grade is based on the fact that the 49ers did not pick the players you wanted. They did not pick any of the players that I wanted either.
But, what I wanted or what you wanted is not very relevent to the grade they should get.

This year I am not attempting to grade the draft. I am going to wait and see how it turns out.
The discussions are interesting, seriously it takes two or three years to honestly evaluate a draft.

In three years, your grade might prove to be correct.

Well, you are not wrong to say we can only grade the draft a few years down the road cos that was the way we drafted.

My point being is teams like the Rams or the Vikings drafted players that can contribute from the word go. Even if the wideouts are not fully ready per se, guys like Austin and Patterson can at least return kicks and punts right off the bat cos that is an inate talent.

Those are type of players I wanted who can make a difference now cos we badly need to win the Super Bowl this coming season.

Besides, I doubt anyone (if being honest) can tell me, the Vikings and the Rams didn't draft better than the 9ers.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by iLL49er:
I ask MD again for the 3rd time..........how are you ripping Reid or even analyzing any secondary when you don't have coaches tape.

You can analyze DL/OL/LB/RB/QB...even wr just based on their pure athletic ability on tape

BUT THERE IS NO WAY YOU CAN MAKE ANY ANALYSIS OF ANY PLAYER IN THE SECONDARY WITHOUT COACHES TAPE

If I missed the first two posts, my apologies. Trying to answer all. You are right that seeing the secondary is not as easy as seeing the guys in the trenches, TEs, OLBs, RBs and more. As for corners and safeties, you may not be able to see all plays, but enough sample to make a reasonable judgment. With the magic of the Internet, and the time invested by many who follow specific players, even a casual fan can see a lot of game action, from many different camera angles. This is especially true with players from big time programs,

Once again, I am not able to see every snap, but that is not necessary, I have seen plenty from Eric Reid to make a reasonable judgment, without wavering.

On the other hand, if we thought Baalke was making a decision without reviewing ALL the available information we'd be pretty unhappy.

I guess its the difference between a hobby and a profession. With your hobby, you can make a call based on whatever you want.

As a professional, with milliions of dollars and the future of an NFL franchise at stake, Baalke's got tons of pressure on him to make the right call. He undoubtedly reviews EVERYTHING, and discusses it all with his staff and the coaches, puts alot of thought into the process before he makes a call.

"Oh, I didn't need to see every snap of Kaepernicks to know he's not a first round value." vs. "No one else knows how good Kaepernick can be, so I think we can steal him in the early second round if we play our cards right and keep our mouths shut until the draft."

The first statement, by a draft board hobbyist, has virtually nothing at risk. The second statement, about a franchise QB, might deternine the fate of the Niners for years to come.

As useful as your critiques of the draft are every year for those of us who are interested in learning more about what Baalke was thinking during the draft, the fact is that you really have nothing at stake. Pretty easy to be hyper critical in those circumstances. Pretty easy to be hypocritical too, though, so be careful.

Originally posted by Rascal:

, I doubt anyone (if being honest) can tell me, the Vikings and the Rams didn't draft better than the 9ers.

Lol I love that! The only way you can disagree with me is if you are lying.... The definition of drafting "better" is drafting better players and as buck said that's yet to be determined.

Originally posted by jreff22:
http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/140843-taylor-mays-is-a-niner/search=taylor%20mays

you would be surprised

Agreed. The vast majority rejoiced in the selection. And, they have that right. He was a major disappointment. Here was my...no so pleasant breakdown (i have toned down over the years) of the pick (post 396 on the link above):

Obviously, we've hit the hot button for the summer with this subject. And, it is only going to get worse. There is no doubt the first time Mays hits a fourth string WR for the Daytona Batwings in one of our pre-season games, we will unvail a new bronze bust at the Stick of Mays and crown him the GOAT. I guess I don't hide my sentiments very well. Sorry. The bottom line is that he runs in a straight line faster than 99.9% of all players entering the NFL draft in the history of the league. And, there is no doubt that he is a handsome athlete. Tall, muscular, lean. He looks the part.At the same time there is no denying his struggles in coverage during Senior Bowl week. They were well-documented by every media outlet that covered the week. The same problems were repeated during combine week drills. And, for a team that needs as much help as possible in coverage, in a big pay league, having a guy who struggles in transition is a big issue that coaching is not going to fix. Even if he looks good in shorts and rans fast in the straight line.In other words, "Coaching him up" is not going to solve a problem with a player who is stiff in the hips. What are you going to tell him???...."Turn faster!!!!!!!!!!"The part that is most ironic, funny, crazy is that if he was drafted by the Seahawks, he would undoubtably annointed as an underachiever, a certain draft bust. Are we suffering from the "Since we drafted him, he must be great" syndrome?I hope I am hopelessly wrong on this one, that Mays magically gains an ability to cover receivers, tight ends, running backs. He is one of ours, and his success is our success. At the same time, I can't just blow over the fact that he is a prospect that has fallen dramatically in the eyes of coaches, scouts, GM's, even with a world class measurables. Putting on a 49ers uniform does not automatically correct these issues.

Originally posted by iLL49er:
MD you seem to be especially proud of the following:

-advocating for JJ Watt over Aldon Smith...the rub is you had no idea aldon smith would get 19 sacks in his 2nd season. Your projection of Aldon is no where near the dominant reality of aldon smith. Its too early to say JJ watt was the right pick...they are both pretty dominant, watt had a better year last year but they've only completed 2yrs and are both premier players so this boasting makes no sense

-you suggest you knew taylor mays would suck. sorry but everyone knew....

-did you call for us to draft kaepernick last year? did you advocate for navarro bowman 3yrs ago? did you find bruce miller? etc etc

you seem to be knocking baalke down which is ridiuculous

Find me a perfect analyst, and you will not find him. As stated ridiculous amounts of times, all GM's are going to miss far more than hit. It is simply a matter of missing less. No one is saying on this end that I am perfect. I have certainly missed. At the same time, I have hit an awful lot.

I have also stated scores of times that it is premature to annoint one draft class or player superior to another early in their careers. It may end up that Aldon flames out, or Watt flames out. Nobody knows. I did, and will continue to take Watt over Aldon, but nothing is certain.

As for knocking Baalke down, I don't think that is a fair judgment. My grade for this class was a B-, not a D-. A B- grade is pretty good. It just has some flaws from making it great.