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MadDog's 2013 NFL Draft Review

Originally posted by oldninerdude:
In the law, a jury is instructed that an expert witness's opinion is to be considered in light of the evidence upon which it is based. The same seems appropriate here.

Basing an opinion of a player's value on a bunch of other "draftniks" whose opinions are, equally, based on what others may say, may not be as reliable as basing such an opinion on a review of coaches game tape.

MD has a hobby--which includes looking at internet clips and reading blogs, gathering info as best he can. I do not doubt that he endeavors to be as accurate as he possibly can be, but his resources are simply more limited than those of an NFL professional.

Reality is that Baalke is an NFL GM with access to an abundance of coaches game tape, scouting reports from the Niners scout team (which nobody else ever sees), personal interviews and workouts, etc., etc. There is little question about who has more complete, better information upon which to base their opinion of a players' draft value.

So you're correct. MD is not that much different from the rest of us, even though he appears to spend far more time than many of us would on his draft board hobby.

That still does not elevate his opinion to the level of an NFL professional's, simply because he does not have access to the same amount or quality of information that they do.

To the extent that other posters fail to recognize how much time and effort MD puts in, it seems unfair to criticize him.

To the extent that his posts sometimes appear to rely on all his hard work as if it was the same as, or even better than an NFL professional's, its understandable how that might subject him to some criticism.

agree, no knock on MD, i have asked him if has access to coaches tape because i was impressed w/ the conclusions he draws and to his credit he did not lie, he said he has no access to coaches tape. upon that revelation we cannot take seriously any assessment of a defensive back...without that tape and understanding roles/coverages etc there is absolutely no way you can tell me that you know kenny vaccaro leaps and bounds better than eric reid, or that johnathan cyprien is better than reid as well.

that is just simple facts. i respect his work but to sit here and talk down from a pulpit as if he knows reid is the wrong pick at that spot without access to coaches tape to make an assessment is not a good assessment
Originally posted by iLL49er:
agree, no knock on MD, i have asked him if has access to coaches tape because i was impressed w/ the conclusions he draws and to his credit he did not lie, he said he has no access to coaches tape. upon that revelation we cannot take seriously any assessment of a defensive back...without that tape and understanding roles/coverages etc there is absolutely no way you can tell me that you know kenny vaccaro leaps and bounds better than eric reid, or that johnathan cyprien is better than reid as well.

that is just simple facts. i respect his work but to sit here and talk down from a pulpit as if he knows reid is the wrong pick at that spot without access to coaches tape to make an assessment is not a good assessment

As far as I know, none of the guys you read--Mayock, Kiper, McShay, Prisco, Miller--have access to coaches' tape. Or do they?
  • KID9R
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Originally posted by okdkid:
stopped reading at "the Dog"

Ditto
Originally posted by iLL49er:
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
In the law, a jury is instructed that an expert witness's opinion is to be considered in light of the evidence upon which it is based. The same seems appropriate here.

Basing an opinion of a player's value on a bunch of other "draftniks" whose opinions are, equally, based on what others may say, may not be as reliable as basing such an opinion on a review of coaches game tape.

MD has a hobby--which includes looking at internet clips and reading blogs, gathering info as best he can. I do not doubt that he endeavors to be as accurate as he possibly can be, but his resources are simply more limited than those of an NFL professional.

Reality is that Baalke is an NFL GM with access to an abundance of coaches game tape, scouting reports from the Niners scout team (which nobody else ever sees), personal interviews and workouts, etc., etc. There is little question about who has more complete, better information upon which to base their opinion of a players' draft value.

So you're correct. MD is not that much different from the rest of us, even though he appears to spend far more time than many of us would on his draft board hobby.

That still does not elevate his opinion to the level of an NFL professional's, simply because he does not have access to the same amount or quality of information that they do.

To the extent that other posters fail to recognize how much time and effort MD puts in, it seems unfair to criticize him.

To the extent that his posts sometimes appear to rely on all his hard work as if it was the same as, or even better than an NFL professional's, its understandable how that might subject him to some criticism.

agree, no knock on MD, i have asked him if has access to coaches tape because i was impressed w/ the conclusions he draws and to his credit he did not lie, he said he has no access to coaches tape. upon that revelation we cannot take seriously any assessment of a defensive back...without that tape and understanding roles/coverages etc there is absolutely no way you can tell me that you know kenny vaccaro leaps and bounds better than eric reid, or that johnathan cyprien is better than reid as well.

that is just simple facts. i respect his work but to sit here and talk down from a pulpit as if he knows reid is the wrong pick at that spot without access to coaches tape to make an assessment is not a good assessment
MD states his opinion of Reid pretty clearly, and appears steadfast in his belief that Baalke was mistaken in trading up for Reid.

I find his position interesting to consider, and to the extent that it requires us to try to make our own critical analysis of the player's talent and ability, and to figure out what Baalke was thinking when he made the move, its actually very useful. IMHO.
Originally posted by LieutKaffee:
Originally posted by iLL49er:
agree, no knock on MD, i have asked him if has access to coaches tape because i was impressed w/ the conclusions he draws and to his credit he did not lie, he said he has no access to coaches tape. upon that revelation we cannot take seriously any assessment of a defensive back...without that tape and understanding roles/coverages etc there is absolutely no way you can tell me that you know kenny vaccaro leaps and bounds better than eric reid, or that johnathan cyprien is better than reid as well.

that is just simple facts. i respect his work but to sit here and talk down from a pulpit as if he knows reid is the wrong pick at that spot without access to coaches tape to make an assessment is not a good assessment

As far as I know, none of the guys you read--Mayock, Kiper, McShay, Prisco, Miller--have access to coaches' tape. Or do they?
I thought Kiper had access to some game tape. Not sure about the others. Seriously doubt that any of them have the same amount of access as Baalke or any other NFL GM would have.
Originally posted by LieutKaffee:
As far as I know, none of the guys you read--Mayock, Kiper, McShay, Prisco, Miller--have access to coaches' tape. Or do they?

i believe they do, they have friends in the business who are scouts who provide them w/ tape.

MD will also tell you that if you as a normal joe schmo contacted a college for coaches tape some will provide it
NFL teams have access to many valuable sources that we do not. These include coaches tape, interviews with elementary teachers, medical reports, personal interviews, scouting groups, HS coaches, college coaches, and not just a years worth but a career's worth.

There is no way I can know that the HS coach from Dudunk HS in East Texas lies about all his players...but if I were a scout in the NFL for thirty years I just might know this coach on a first name basis.

If I were a GM I would put way too much emphasis on interviews with the players...and would draft a bunch of great, intense young men who may or may not have the talent to make it in the NFL. Have to know your limitations...but still doesn't bother me when folks want to try to play GM.
Originally posted by iLL49er:
Originally posted by LieutKaffee:
As far as I know, none of the guys you read--Mayock, Kiper, McShay, Prisco, Miller--have access to coaches' tape. Or do they?

i believe they do, they have friends in the business who are scouts who provide them w/ tape.

MD will also tell you that if you as a normal joe schmo contacted a college for coaches tape some will provide it

This, just the other day Mayock was talking about a team that gave him access to their film room so he could do his evaluations.
Originally posted by 5280High:
Originally posted by iLL49er:
Originally posted by LieutKaffee:
As far as I know, none of the guys you read--Mayock, Kiper, McShay, Prisco, Miller--have access to coaches' tape. Or do they?

i believe they do, they have friends in the business who are scouts who provide them w/ tape.

MD will also tell you that if you as a normal joe schmo contacted a college for coaches tape some will provide it

This, just the other day Mayock was talking about a team that gave him access to their film room so he could do his evaluations.
Now that I think about it, Mayock talks about "going to the tape" or "going back to the tape" frequently. As a member of NFL Network he may have access to some college tapes and Sr. Bowl practice tapes, etc.

Still, Baalke not only has a fully manned scouting department, but also has a fully manned video department that can take a hours long college game tape and narrow it down to just the defensive plays involving the player in question, thus saving Baalke hours of time--which he uses to study other information like medical reports, etc.
Yo, Dog! Let's wait until these cats actually PLAY! No one can say FOR SURE how these draftees are going to perform in the show. There are too many "can't miss" guys who busted out and plenty undrafted cats who came in and became stars. Everyone just LOVES the Lattimore pick, but not because he was a steal (at least not yet) but because it was a feel good story. So, really appreciate the time and effort put into your commentary but, slow your roll and let's wait (a while) and see what happens.
fire baalke and hire maddog
I've been reading the MadDog draft analyses for years, and I've got to say...the dude is good.

It's unbelievable the picks he comes up with and the supporting analysis. It's insane that he doesn't get paid to do what he clearly loves and is good at. I'm very grateful he comes to this site and shares his thourghts, and I hope he continues to do.

Thanks, big guy. Keep up the good work.
Originally posted by susweel:
fire baalke and hire maddog

does maddog have a football related job?
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Originally posted by LieutKaffee:
As far as I know, none of the guys you read--Mayock, Kiper, McShay, Prisco, Miller--have access to coaches' tape. Or do they?

Pretty sure that Mayock has access to game tape because of contacts established on the job with NFL.com.
Originally posted by RonMexico:
Originally posted by susweel:
fire baalke and hire maddog

does maddog have a football related job?

Does self professed genius count?