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Anyone doubting Baalke and Harbaugh's drafting ability?

Originally posted by Willisfn4life:
Originally posted by theninermaniac:
Originally posted by kronik:
Are you one of those newbs that expect rookies to play in their 1st year? Using your logic, we should've drafted a QB last year cuz Kaepernick did nothing his first year!!! If he doesn't step up this year, then we can ALL call him a bust. Until then, you're just setting yourself up to look idiotic in the future.

Ya Seattle must have had a newb drafting for them in 2012 because they found three starters in their first three picks. Bruce Irvin, Bobby Wagner, and Russell Wilson.

There was literally a glarring hole in everyone of the positions on their team that you just metioned. Can you pick out the glarring holes on our team going into our draft last year?

Many never really consider this point. How many starters do you expect Seattle to land in the coming draft? Maybe a guard if they go that way. Otherwise they're in the same position we were last year with practically zero holes to fill in the draft. That will change for them in the coming seasons when they can't pay for everybody, similar to our predicament this year. It's cyclical.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I wouldn't doubt based on the tremendous 2011 draft, but you can't automatically assume every pick is spot on, because 2012 looks rough to this point. The best guys still miss more than hit. It is a matter of hitting more than others that makes you special. Overall, Baalke sure passes the test, as he is superior to most GM's in the draft the past few years.

Here was my last three drafts based on my board and team needs at each pick:

2010 NFL Draft
1. Iupati (I graded him as the eighth best player in the draft...probably too low).
1. Dez Bryant
2. Morgan Burnett
3. Owusu-Ansah
6. Doug Worthington
6. Cody Davis
6. Jeff Owens
7. Dorin Dickerson

2011 NFL Draft: Here were my post draft notes I posted in the "Redo" thread (I did not trade for Kaepernick in this draft)
1- JJ Watt, DE, WisconsinSimply the best player on the board at the time. Since Franklin appears to be leaving, moving Soap to NT would necessitate a new DE to take over right away.
2- Rodney Hudson, G/C, Florida StateI think Hudson is the best OL in the entire draft, and is a starter at guard or center.
3- Curtis Brown, CB, TexasThe team needs a cover corner, and Brown has size and speed.
4- Jordan Todman, RB, UConnI graded Todman just slightly over Hunter, who I really like as well. Both are great value picks at this point.
4- Marcus Cannon, G, TCUSince the Niners have a second fourth rounder, this can be a luxury pick. I'd burn it on a risk. Cannon is a starter at guard some time in the future if he can survive cancer and regain his strength. Worth the risk in the fourth round.
5- Tyrod Taylor, QB, Virginia TechThe Niners need QB depth, and while no one expects Taylor to be a future starter, he can be a solid backup if the starter goes down for a short time.
6- Charles Clay, FB, TulsaA FB who can run and catch the ball. Sounds like a WCO fullback to me.
6- Justin Rogers, CB, RichmondTeam needs a second corner in this draft, and Rogers had a terrific career and offseason.
6- Jerrell Powe, NT, MississippiSimply a backup, toilet clogger. Every 3-4 team needs one.
7- Ugo Chinasa, OLB, Oklahoma StWas not drafted, but a quick, strong guy who could develop into a nice role player.
7- Jeron Johnson, S, Boise St Also not drafted, but a talented, fast guy who has a ton of experience.
7- Dane Sanzenbacher, WR, Ohio StCompetition for Williams in the slot. Sanzenbacher was a seriously clutch WR for the Buckeyes.

2012 NFL Draft
1. Peter Konz
2. Mohammed Sanu
4. Malik Jackson
5. Vick Ballard
6. Antonio Allen
6. Not sure- don't have my notes here at work
7. Not sure- don't have my notes here at work

Recap analysis: I loved my first three picks in 2010. The rest have done little to nothing. In 2011, I hit the jackpot with Watt, but probably blew it with Kaepernick (I had faith in Harbaugh and Smith). I do love my fourth rounders through seventh from Cannon through Sanzenbacher. Missed on Hunter, but hit very well on Cannon, Taylor, Rogers, and especially Johnson, who has been terrific for the Seahawks. In 2012, I believe my draft will hold up well with Konz, Sanu and a studly Ballard leading the way. Once again, you hope to hit on as many as possible and some years turn out better than others.

How fun to go back and objectively compare. You'd obviously make a good GM or head scout. It essentially came down to acquiring a franchise QB over a franchise 3-4 DE. Either way we couldn't lose.
Originally posted by theninermaniac:
Originally posted by Willisfn4life:
There was literally a glarring hole in everyone of the positions on their team that you just metioned. Can you pick out the glarring holes on our team going into our draft last year?

Offensive playmakers

Secondary help

Depth along O and D lines

Kick/punt returner

We added none of that in 2012, now we have to try again.

Going into the draft last year, we had Crabtree, Randy Moss, Mario Manningham, Kyle Williams, Frank Gore, Kendal Hunter, Vernon Davis and Delanie Walker, thats more than enough playmakers.

Carlos Rogers was coming off his best season and we had two young, promising cornerbacks in Culliver and Brown.

Ginn had a great year in 2011 as a returner and we added our future at the return position in James.

We added offensive line depth. The depth on the d-line, I will give you, however that counteracts your argument. The players that you pointed out in the Seahawks draft, didn't have entrenched starters in their positions. The niners had their starters in place before last years draft.
Originally posted by TheGoldDiggerrrr:
Originally posted by Wodwo:
Originally posted by TheGoldDiggerrrr:
My only problem is we've draft Five FS, FIVE OF THEM... And we still have a hole at FS And soon to be SIX!! Dude better be All Pro

That chart is labeling players wrong. The only two FS they've drafted are Taylor Mays and Trenton Robinson. Culliver is a cornerback, as was Curtis Holcomb. Colin Jones was a safety in name only, he really had no position (Hell, they had him practicing at WR) and was just a gunner on special teams.

I'd even argue that Taylor Mays isn't a FS, either. His skillset (what little there is) fits best as an in the box SS.

So, in reality Baalke has only drafted one FS and that was last season in the sixth round.

Still a problem?

Culliver was a Free Safety in his second season of college. He only played Cornerback his final year and only played 7 games that season do to a injury, so he played more as a safety lol so he's one in my eyes. Taylor is still a safety. I also checked the panthers they have colin jones listed as a safety so that one counts. You did get me on curtis holcomb he was and is a db... So were drafting safety 5. We've traded 2 of them away. One got his position changed to Cb and may not even see the field as much if assmofo signing works, and the other is depth and special teamer at best. Either way Trent hasn't had good luck in the safety area and we really need to hit on this one or we have to get woodson or start craig....

And were changing this from Fs to safety cause Trent has said he likes a balanced one, not a guy that's a box or a guy that's just good in coverage he wants a guy who can do it all.

Come on now. That Taylor Mays pick wasn't even his. Culliver was moved from safety and turned out to be a pretty good player. I don't consider how you look at that as a bad pick. The rest of those guys are longshots. Sixth and seventh rounds? Colin Jones wasn't a bad pick either the way and personlly I feel we shouldn't have even let him go.
Originally posted by NCommand:
My only real issues with Baalke's drafts (which have been stellar IMHO) is that everyone and their mother knew Goldson was running towards the payday. Period. We had him on multiple one-year deals and he made his demands clear. He wanted top 3 money. So why didn't we draft and train his replacement (like Baalke says, 1 to 2 years out) fully knowing this? That said, I have a strong feeling they did...and his name is Chris Culliver. Experience at CB will help him as a FS. But then who is Whitner's replacement? Trenton Robinson?
We should already have answers for these two scenarios.

I wanted Fleener badly last year b/c he would have been able to start from day 1 and play 50-60% of the snaps, create mismatches and really help Alex/CK in the RZ/EZ. And more importantly, he was perfect insurance for VD should he ever go down. We run a heavy two-TE happy offense so a #1 "slot WR" such as AJ does nothing for you in year 1. And now he'll be up against Manningham and Williams.

Now here is a scenario where this pick makes the most sense: With CK and his love for the WR position, we may become more diversified. We may get Ertz this year who sounds like a more complete TE compared to Fleener AND we may evolve into a more 3 and 4 WR set team...a more spread-style offense. If this is the case, you CAN have AJ, who's had a year to learn all three WR positions, contribute a ton. He could have a "break out" year and be part of a sweet rotation with Crabtree and Boldin/Lockette and Williams and Manningham (slot). AJ can now play all three positions...he can burn you inside as a slot and beat you deep outside (deep threat). He can also line up in the backfield next to CK and a TE/RB out of the Q formation and create additional mismatches.

Let's watch how "the plan" unfolds before we're too quick to judge last year's draft choices.
Having a FS ready to step in probably was his plan all along. We can't say for certain that Trenton Robinson is the guy, no more than we could've said that NaVorro Bowman wasn't ready in 2011. You just never know about these things. The only thing we do is that when a guy has had to step up and replace someone on this team, it has ALWAYS worked out. So I'll give Baalke the benefit of the doubt.
Because of the picks he has made, we have 2 possible options at center once Goodwin leaves, are in position to take another starting caliber receiver who could either complement Crabtree or replace him (depending on Michael Crabtree's contract demands and the development of AJ Jenkins), we are in position to draft a more talented TE to pair up with Vernon Davis, and a true franchise QB. We'll be ok. If we answered every question in the 2012 draft we wouldn't even need the 2013 draft . I'm just going to sit back, relax, and smile as he solidifies the short and long term future of this team in less than 2 days.

Also, in response to the post about not adding anyone in 2012, we added LaMichael James who is an offensive weapon and gives us a legit 3-headed monster at running back, who also can return kicks. Outside of him, no one else really played. The one guy who did, did it well. I expect that most of the other picks, including AJ Jenkins, when given opportunities (plural, not singular), will do well as also.

P.S. I also have to admit Coby Fleener was my guy last year and I still stand by that pick, believing we should have taken him. However if the logic is to get a TE with better blocking ability but also the playmaking ability of Fleener I'm on board.
[ Edited by LifelongNiner on Apr 23, 2013 at 11:17 PM ]
Good points NC and Lifelong! The biggest problem last year was lack of depth on the DL. When Justin Smith was dinged, and Dobbs was out, there was no one who could come close to filling in. Not talking about being J Smith, but the fall off was just too great and the D had to be changed to cover the shortcoming. It may be more a case of how many DL you can keep on the team than quality...but they come down to the same thing...a problem. If they can fill the NT spot and add a really tough developmental DE the team will be improved. I liked RJFs versatility but he didn't seem to be more than a stop gap but a good 4th lineman coming off the bench.

James was an excellent pick and Jenkins may have been as well. We will see this year and going forward. Looney, Robinson, Flemming and Johnson are total unknown qualities at this point but they may develop nicely...at least they haven't imploded or retired to Florida.

I was a Fleener hopeful as well, but will be happy if they can get a more rounded TE this year. Doesn't have to be Eifert or Ertz because there are a couple of TEs after those two with talent...may be really good.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Doesn't have to be Eifert or Ertz because there are a couple of TEs after those two with talent...may be really good.

Agreed... Travis Kelce and Dion Sims, please!
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Good points NC and Lifelong! The biggest problem last year was lack of depth on the DL. When Justin Smith was dinged, and Dobbs was out, there was no one who could come close to filling in. Not talking about being J Smith, but the fall off was just too great and the D had to be changed to cover the shortcoming. It may be more a case of how many DL you can keep on the team than quality...but they come down to the same thing...a problem. If they can fill the NT spot and add a really tough developmental DE the team will be improved. I liked RJFs versatility but he didn't seem to be more than a stop gap but a good 4th lineman coming off the bench.

James was an excellent pick and Jenkins may have been as well. We will see this year and going forward. Looney, Robinson, Flemming and Johnson are total unknown qualities at this point but they may develop nicely...at least they haven't imploded or retired to Florida.

I was a Fleener hopeful as well, but will be happy if they can get a more rounded TE this year. Doesn't have to be Eifert or Ertz because there are a couple of TEs after those two with talent...may be really good.

Thanks (and yo LifeLong as well). I'm glad you brought up the NT and DE positions as well. I still my needs in the following order but obviously, who is available (and depth in this draft) will dictate WHO we take at WHAT position and WHEN:

Top Tier FS
Top Tier TE
Top Tier DE
Top or Second Tier CB
Top or Second Tier NT
Second Tier WR
Second Tier T
Second Tier C
Second Tier OLB
Second Tier WR/KR
Second Tier PK/ST

We need 1 o 2 immediate starters, 4-5 heavy contributors and the rest to develop as starter-material for next year and red-shirt this year.