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Rumor about 49ers trying to trade to top 15.

Originally posted by OldJoe:
You trade up for a draft crush. We are going to draft D the first picks, I don't see us trading up.

Not going to happen.

Too many picks, too many players for a 53 man roster. They'll trade up just because they can.
  • Wodwo
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 8,104
I understand that there are many prospects in the second and third rounds that have tremendous potential and I would be perfectly happy to just sit on our picks and take the best players that fall to them.

That said, I think many people have been fantasizing via mock drafts for so long now that they are married to the picks we have. The scenarios have all been thought out and everyone has their draft crushes. If those picks are traded, it's the same as trading away a player someone fell in love with.

The justification people give for clinging to every draft pick seems to be that they feel the entire roster will fall apart if replacements aren't drafted for every player due to hit free agency in the next two years. Well, I just figured I'd pop in here and take that idea out back and shoot it in the head. Dirty job, but I'm a dirty guy.

Yes, the team is going to lose players to FA. Other players will be cut and some may even retire. This happens every off-season, to every team. Yet, they somehow manage to win Super Bowls without having 5 picks in the top 100 and 13 picks overall every draft.

When the team loses a player to FA, having a draft pick step in is not the only option. Sometimes, it is not even the best option. The team can replace a FA with... another FA. Baalke has not been handing out big contracts to other teams FAs, but he has done pretty decent job finding good value to fill holes. What makes people think the same can't be done in the future? There is all this hand wringing about replacing Justin Smith, but people seem to forget that he was also a FA signing brought in after Bryant Young retired. For all we know, someone like Glenn Dorsey could step in and the defense would be fine. Remember, Justin Smith was considered a disappointment as a draft pick with the Bengals and he wasn't considered a good fit in a 3-4 defense when he was signed. Nobody projected that he would turn out to be one of the best defenders in the league. Yes, he was a big contract FA, but the market has changed. There are good FAs available at good value.

Baalke has also shown that he can acquire talented players via trade with Boldin and McCoy and he didn't give up much to get them. A proven receiver and a veteran back-up QB for 6th and 7th round value respectively. Holes filled after other players left.

Must I also mention that there will be a draft after next season, too? One in which the team already has a surplus of extra draft picks.

I'm also mildly amused that so many people want to add all these rookies for the future when fans are still grumbling about last years draft. Either you think Baalke knows what he's doing and you trust the rookies will develop or you think he can't evaluate talent and it would be a waste to draft developmental players.

Point is, there's more than one way to skin a cat. I get it... some of you have your hearts set on certain prospects and others think they have the best plan. Just try to keep an open mind and remember that this draft is not nearly the "make or break" event that people have been hyping it up to be. There's always going to be opportunities to add players in the future... and next off-season everyone will just be going crazy about a new batch of FAs and draft prospects.

Ok. /rant
Originally posted by NickSh49:
On Thursday, the Niners will trade up with their draft-day buddies the Carolina Panthers.

Not gonna look it up, but I know the two teams have executed trades at least twice in the last 5-6 years, once involving the Panthers taking DE Everette Brown in the second.

didn't we trade them our 3rd last year?
Chance Warmack
Honestly, the guy might be Tank Carradine. Kind of depressing from a fan perspective because a week ago he was a projected 2nd round pick, and now all of a sudden we have to give up multiple high picks if we want him. But still, he's one of my favorite in the draft. NFL GMs are presumably smarter than the fan/writer community, so Carradine may have had a mid-first grade all along to these guys pending a successful workout. Today writers are going crazy about Carradine surging into the top 15.
Originally posted by Wodwo:
I understand that there are many prospects in the second and third rounds that have tremendous potential and I would be perfectly happy to just sit on our picks and take the best players that fall to them.

That said, I think many people have been fantasizing via mock drafts for so long now that they are married to the picks we have. The scenarios have all been thought out and everyone has their draft crushes. If those picks are traded, it's the same as trading away a player someone fell in love with.

The justification people give for clinging to every draft pick seems to be that they feel the entire roster will fall apart if replacements aren't drafted for every player due to hit free agency in the next two years. Well, I just figured I'd pop in here and take that idea out back and shoot it in the head. Dirty job, but I'm a dirty guy.

Yes, the team is going to lose players to FA. Other players will be cut and some may even retire. This happens every off-season, to every team. Yet, they somehow manage to win Super Bowls without having 5 picks in the top 100 and 13 picks overall every draft.

When the team loses a player to FA, having a draft pick step in is not the only option. Sometimes, it is not even the best option. The team can replace a FA with... another FA. Baalke has not been handing out big contracts to other teams FAs, but he has done pretty decent job finding good value to fill holes. What makes people think the same can't be done in the future? There is all this hand wringing about replacing Justin Smith, but people seem to forget that he was also a FA signing brought in after Bryant Young retired. For all we know, someone like Glenn Dorsey could step in and the defense would be fine. Remember, Justin Smith was considered a disappointment as a draft pick with the Bengals and he wasn't considered a good fit in a 3-4 defense when he was signed. Nobody projected that he would turn out to be one of the best defenders in the league. Yes, he was a big contract FA, but the market has changed. There are good FAs available at good value.

Baalke has also shown that he can acquire talented players via trade with Boldin and McCoy and he didn't give up much to get them. A proven receiver and a veteran back-up QB for 6th and 7th round value respectively. Holes filled after other players left.

Must I also mention that there will be a draft after next season, too? One in which the team already has a surplus of extra draft picks.

I'm also mildly amused that so many people want to add all these rookies for the future when fans are still grumbling about last years draft. Either you think Baalke knows what he's doing and you trust the rookies will develop or you think he can't evaluate talent and it would be a waste to draft developmental players.

Point is, there's more than one way to skin a cat. I get it... some of you have your hearts set on certain prospects and others think they have the best plan. Just try to keep an open mind and remember that this draft is not nearly the "make or break" event that people have been hyping it up to be. There's always going to be opportunities to add players in the future... and next off-season everyone will just be going crazy about a new batch of FAs and draft prospects.

Ok. /rant

Always appreciate your level-headed approach to posting. And to add to your point, who's to say some of our own won't be ready THIS year? We are getting "free players" back this year in Johnson, Fleming, Williams, Manningham, Hunter, etc. On defense, now guys such as Spillman, Dahl and Robinson will be competing. So who knows...who? Well, given the guys we lost all signed ridiculous contracts and collaboration between the FO, position coaches and HC, maybe some of these guys are ready right now! Remember when we lost guys such as Manny Lawson and there was NO WAY we could ever replace them? It turned out we had BETTER players behind them just waiting for their chance...and who didn't disappoint. We'll be fine.

Now compare our situation to the Hawks over the next two years and you'll feel better about things.
Originally posted by LieutKaffee:
Honestly, the guy might be Tank Carradine. Kind of depressing from a fan perspective because a week ago he was a projected 2nd round pick, and now all of a sudden we have to give up multiple high picks if we want him. But still, he's one of my favorite in the draft. NFL GMs are presumably smarter than the fan/writer community, so Carradine may have had a mid-first grade all along to these guys pending a successful workout. Today writers are going crazy about Carradine surging into the top 15.

Yeah I was kind of thinking that might be it too. We trade up to get our guy. It seems like Carradine is making his way into the first round and if Baalke and co really like him they'll trade up to get him and don't care if it's viewed as somewhat of a reach. Kind of like how Aldon Smith was initially viewed as a slight reach.

I really wish we could just stay where we are and still get Carradine though, that would have been perfect. I wanted us to end up with like 6-8 picks in rounds 2-4. All the talent is in those rounds. Not much of a difference between pick #20 and #60.
Side note: Great story on DJ Hayden "medical miracle."

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/0ap2000000161013/D-J-Hayden-s-NFL-dream-is-kept-alive
Originally posted by NCommand:
Both extremely quick, shifty, great hands, have speed, knack for getting open, dangerous in the open field, can be lined up anywhere, etc. Harvin is like this as well...so is Amendola. And Wes Welker. The point though is that, respectively, the Vikings, Rams and Patriots actually use them this way. Hell, in fact, the Rams had only ONE playmaker on offense and Fischer used Amendola so effectively they tied us and beat us in this fashion. Roman doesn't do this even though we certainly, IMHO, have similar weapons. So now, will the Bronco's use Welker the same way? Will the Pats use Amendola the same way? Will Seattle use Harvin the same way? We'll see...maybe the bigger question is, esp. given we run a lot of Q formations, why didn't (or doesn't) Roman employ similar mismatch creations? We even had a 4.2 Ginn (not the best example of course by WHEN he had the ball in his hands he could be dangerous) but we used him on fly-sweeps, end-arounds, fakes, etc. two years ago. And then, aside from the pitch-fail, never used him again. Why? Is Austin THAT much of a threat, above what we already have, to throw away all those draft picks in a year where there is so much deep talent for our needs between rounds 2-4? If you think so, I'd love to hear rationale on it. And I mean that in the most respectful way...

I do not disagree with you on your assertion that it wouldn't be worth it to us to move all the way up for Austin and give up all those picks.

That said, Kyle Williams isn't on the same level as Tavon Austin. Not even close. Just because they're both small and rely on their quickness they're similar players? Absolutely not. By that logic you could compare Ramses Barden to Calvin Johnson just because they're both big, physical and run well for their size.

Tavon Austin is faster, quicker, has better vision and acceleration, and is just generally a far better football player than Kyle Williams. The reason we don't use Kyle Williams more is because he's a solid 4th/5th WR and an average return man, nothing more.

Having Kyle Williams on the roster doesn't preclude us from drafting Austin by any stretch of the imagination. What precludes us from drafting Austin is, as you stated, the price of moving up to get him.
[ Edited by JamesGatz83 on Apr 22, 2013 at 2:09 PM ]
Originally posted by JamesGatz83:
I do not disagree with you on your assertion that it wouldn't be worth it to us to move all the way up for Austin and give up all those picks.

That said, Kyle Williams isn't on the same level as Tavon Austin. Not even close. Just because they're both small and rely on their quickness they're similar players? Absolutely not. By that logic you could compare Ramses Barden to Calvin Johnson just because they're both big, physical and run well for their size.

Tavon Austin is faster, quicker, has better vision and acceleration, and is just generally a far better football player than Kyle Williams. The reason we don't use Kyle Williams more is because he's a solid 4th/5th WR and an average return man, nothing more.

Having Kyle Williams on the roster doesn't preclude us from drafting Austin by any stretch of the imagination. What precludes us from drafting Austin is, as you stated, the price of moving up to get him.

That's fair if you think that. In our offense, how do you think he'd be used? Obviously we saw how Amendola was used in St. Louis and adding Austin, you'd think they'd use him in a similar fashion. But how would WE use him IYO?
Originally posted by NickSh49:
Too many picks, too many players for a 53 man roster. They'll trade up just because they can.

or trade this year's picks for next years picks...



Originally posted by YungAce:
didn't we trade them our 3rd last year?

our 4th
It's going to be Carradine with the trade-up, with Richardson, Austin, and Vaccaro as backup plans should someone beat us to the punch. I don't know why anyone would be disappointed with this, however. He's a huge talent, and you can never have enough dominating pass rushers. If Baalke and Tomsula think he's so legit that he's worth the trade then chances are he's worth it.
Originally posted by FearItself:
It's going to be Carradine with the trade-up, with Richardson, Austin, and Vaccaro as backup plans should someone beat us to the punch. I don't know why anyone would be disappointed with this, however. He's a huge talent, and you can never have enough dominating pass rushers. If Baalke and Tomsula think he's so legit that he's worth the trade then chances are he's worth it.

I think it would be Carradine, Datone Jones, or Sheldon Richardson. Doubt they'd do it for a safety. My offensive wildcards would be Eifert or Patterson.

Many of the five names I just listed would be considered "reaches" by most of the media and fan base, because their names have often been in the 20s or even the 2nd round in dozens of mocks over the past couple months. Personally I think all five players would be awesome for the 49ers and are worthy of a top-15 pick, but I still don't think we should give up what it would take to get there. Someone will fall to us.
As much as I'd like for it to be Carradine I have an even bigger hunch it's Richardson. Carradine seems too obvious and as we know with this organization's recent drafts we must "expect the unexpected". They could trade up to 13/14 to take Richardson and still hold pick 34. Then with pick 34 trade back into round 1 and grab Carradine (if he lasts till 25ish) if they wish to do so. I believe it's Richardson because he could spell Cowboy and RayMac and it would hardly affect the quality of our defense. Not to mention Richardson is a great prospect, not many players of his caliber come around.

Looking at previous seasons' pre draft visits and this year's it appears the Niners use these visits on prospects they are unsure of. Sheldon Richardson's tape does a lot of the talking for him as a prospect and I'm sure the Niners visited with him @ the combine.
Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Chance Warmack

No need, we got Boone and lupati