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Rumor about 49ers trying to trade to top 15.

Originally posted by NYCNINER:
TYLER EIFERT!!!

I would trade up for this guy in a heartbeat if he fell in the 20's.
Originally posted by LieutKaffee:
Originally posted by martysofresh:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by martysofresh:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by martysofresh:
If we're going to 15, why not target Vaccaro, Patterson or Austin?
much rather trade up to 24(Colts) and get Datone Jones tho instead of packaging our draft

Ideally, i want Datone Jones with our first pick and Phillip Thomas with our second.
Our biggest need IMO is FS simply because we lost our starter and our second would be DL. Fortunately, Thomas is rated to go behind Elam, Vaccaro, Reid, and Cyprien.

No way would I use the 34th pick for Phillip Thomas. He should still be there when we use our late 2nd rd pick or even the early 3rd rd pick

idk. 28 or something picks between our two second round picks, i just feel like another safety needy team will snatch him up if the other 4 are gone. But who would you take there?

I like Elam, Cyprien, Haden, Trufant.

Ideally:
31 Jones
34 One of the 4 above


So you'd go Corner before FS? Interesting. I like Hayden though, wouldnt be upset with him at 34. He'd be that solid corner that we so desparately need and would be there, assuming Jax doesnt go for him with #33. Same could be said for Cyprien.
I wanted to go Jones, Thomas and then B.Williams with 62 to address backup DT behind Dorsey and compete with I.Williams.

FS is a bigger need but I believe the value in this draft will lead the team to draft a CB first and come away with starting caliber players at both positions.

Yeahh I guess thats possible too.
. Do you mean CB before FS? or do you mean a CB with their first pick?
  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 9,748
Originally posted by NCommand:
Agreed! Which was my point. It doesn't mean he can't produce like a Amendola/Welker as it is more HOW we have used him in the past and more recently under Roman (until he got hurt on a crack-back block). I highlighted him as just an example of being a versatile guy we don't use much....yet. Like how we could have been using James and Hunter more like Sproles. But we don't. Like how we had all this talent already on the team pre-Harbaugh but it took HarBaalke to 1) recognize it and 2) take advantage of it.

Roman will have his first offseason with CK and this offense together so while you feel I am overvaluing Williams and his abilities a bit, I'm willing to hold judgement and say "I think he could be used in this manner but we just haven't yet...hopefully Roman will this year with a full offseason."

I actually think you are overestimating his abilities by much more than a bit.

But, I realize that my point of view could be off-base.

You may be right, but Kyle William's potential is not a good reason for not drafting another wide receiver.
Originally posted by buck:
I actually think you are overestimating his abilities by much more than a bit.

But, I realize that my point of view could be off-base.

You may be right, but Kyle William's potential is not a good reason for not drafting another wide receiver.

LOL. Fair enough friend.

As far as WR, I certainly agree with you...just not us trading up and giving all our draft picks for Austin (hence the AJ/Williams comparisons). I do think we'll draft a WR though and maybe higher than some think. Like Baalke stated, the good teams draft a year or two in advance. In this case, we'll need a starting CB and WR badly given the state of flux at both spots, even as early as next year!
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by buck:
I think that you are overstating the case for Kyle Williams. He just has not been productive enough to warrant the the praise.

He's a good little player...just caught between two completely different offenses. He went from focusing on crack-back blocks to running sideline routes against the Bears. He's a versatile guy...but he is just as versatile as many players we already have on our team as noted before: Hunter, James, Manningham, etc. Roman finally started to run VD out of the Q formation and had success. You don't think we can run these (aforementioned guys) out of this formation and be even more effective?

This is from the slot. Imagine the confusion he'd create with he and VD, Gore or Hunter/James out of the Q, lined up right next to CK.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000098085/Kaepernick-to-Williams-for-57-yds


I agree with Buck that you are really overstating the case for KW. He is nowhere close to being an elite player. Very average and hopefully we upgrade from him this season. Potentially, Austin is elite, but I would hesitate to give up a lot for someone that small. I'd like someone to name me someone of that size whose a game changing HOFer. No one come to mind with me. He's a Warren Dunn type. Maybe even smaller.

I'm on board with you. There such breath of talent of talent in this draft, that the Niners would to well to shore up their backups in all critical areas. This will afford the team developmental guys who can step into starting positions in a couple of years time. Baalke understands that you don't want to rely on rookies to fill starting roles if at all possible. Give them a year or two to get used to the speed of the game.

And this is the reason why I completely disagree with those who say that the 49ers are "stacked". It's become like a mantra. Some shallow thinker starts off saying it and everybody picks up the refrain. Ideally you keep stocking the roster with back-ups who are capable of being starters; now THAT'S a "stacked" roster. You make good picks every year, in order to keep your roster young and not fall into the trap of having a too old roster and falling off a cliff when your stars can no longer keep up. I read where one poster said that he wouldn't mind if the Niners didn't pick ANYONE this year and traded away all their picks for future picks because the Niner's are that good. I just have to smh at thinking like that. It's so short sighted. And just a recipe for disaster down the road. We all have seen how radically a couple of bad drafts can negatively effect a team a couple of years down the road.

So . . . please tell me, for those of you who think the Niners are "stacked", which one of the team's back-ups would you be happy with stepping up, if a starter were to fall? And would they be someone who you would feel good about permanently manning that position?

Keep drafting as long as there are good players available. The Niner's have PLENTY of roster spots avaiable for good players. Even 13 if need be. This "let's trade away picks" before seeing what's available out there is just craziness. Thankfully, Baalke does understand this.
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Both extremely quick, shifty, great hands, have speed, knack for getting open, dangerous in the open field, can be lined up anywhere, etc. Harvin is like this as well...so is Amendola. And Wes Welker. The point though is that, respectively, the Vikings, Rams and Patriots actually use them this way. Hell, in fact, the Rams had only ONE playmaker on offense and Fischer used Amendola so effectively they tied us and beat us in this fashion. Roman doesn't do this even though we certainly, IMHO, have similar weapons. So now, will the Bronco's use Welker the same way? Will the Pats use Amendola the same way? Will Seattle use Harvin the same way? We'll see...maybe the bigger question is, esp. given we run a lot of Q formations, why didn't (or doesn't) Roman employ similar mismatch creations? We even had a 4.2 Ginn (not the best example of course by WHEN he had the ball in his hands he could be dangerous) but we used him on fly-sweeps, end-arounds, fakes, etc. two years ago. And then, aside from the pitch-fail, never used him again. Why? Is Austin THAT much of a threat, above what we already have, to throw away all those draft picks in a year where there is so much deep talent for our needs between rounds 2-4? If you think so, I'd love to hear rationale on it. And I mean that in the most respectful way...

I think that you are overstating the case for Kyle Williams. He just has not been productive enough to warrant the the praise.


Its not like Kyle doesnt have the potential to do what Amendola does though, its just because we dont use him that way. If KW didnt tear his ACL, he could of had a solid 5TDs, goood for the #3/4 guy. He probably would have been with Kap and Lock if he wasnt rehabbing from his injury. Every year he's getting better and production is what you want out of young players, right? A Full season w/ Kap and things will change a bit.
Now that the Revis trade is complete, I could see us trading with the Jets for #13. They are in need of MANY players and would be likely to trade that pick for #31, #34 rather than targeting a specicic player there.
Originally posted by gunslinger8:
Now that the Revis trade is complete, I could see us trading with the Jets for #13. They are in need of MANY players and would be likely to trade that pick for #31, #34 rather than targeting a specicic player there.


jets might take Tavon austin themselves. if I were the now Revis-less Jets, id hit LB and T.Austin with those picks. And hit QB in the 2nd
Originally posted by Rsrkshn:
I agree with Buck that you are really overstating the case for KW. He is nowhere close to being an elite player. Very average and hopefully we upgrade from him this season. Potentially, Austin is elite, but I would hesitate to give up a lot for someone that small. I'd like someone to name me someone of that size whose a game changing HOFer. No one come to mind with me. He's a Warren Dunn type. Maybe even smaller.

I'm on board with you. There such breath of talent of talent in this draft, that the Niners would to well to shore up their backups in all critical areas. This will afford the team developmental guys who can step into starting positions in a couple of years time. Baalke understands that you don't want to rely on rookies to fill starting roles if at all possible. Give them a year or two to get used to the speed of the game.

And this is the reason why I completely disagree with those who say that the 49ers are "stacked". It's become like a mantra. Some shallow thinker starts off saying it and everybody picks up the refrain. Ideally you keep stocking the roster with back-ups who are capable of being starters; now THAT'S a "stacked" roster. You make good picks every year, in order to keep your roster young and not fall into the trap of having a too old roster and falling off a cliff when your stars can no longer keep up. I read where one poster said that he wouldn't mind if the Niners didn't pick ANYONE this year and traded away all their picks for future picks because the Niner's are that good. I just have to smh at thinking like that. It's so short sighted. And just a recipe for disaster down the road. We all have seen how radically a couple of bad drafts can negatively effect a team a couple of years down the road.

So . . . please tell me, for those of you who think the Niners are "stacked", which one of the team's back-ups would you be happy with stepping up, if a starter were to fall? And would they be someone who you would feel good about permanently manning that position?

Keep drafting as long as there are good players available. The Niner's have PLENTY of roster spots avaiable for good players. Even 13 if need be. This "let's trade away picks" before seeing what's available out there is just craziness. Thankfully, Baalke does understand this.

No worries but I think you guys are slightly missing the point. It's about formations and how you use players. And KW was barely used as a slot WR. Is it b/c he sucks? No, it's b/c we were a power running team with TOP focus and heavily used DW as the 2nd TE/WR option d/t his blocking more than a 3rd WR. Are Harvin. Amendola and Welker really that special? No, they are just used creatively by their OC's and used often and as a result of their abilities (quickness off the LOS, versatility to line up in the back field, all three WR spots, TE, b/c of their speed, sure-hands, RAC abilities, etc.) they have success. That said, I think AJJ and Manningham and Hunter/James have more "ability" over Williams and could also be used in the Amendola-Harvin-Welker-Sproles fashion out of the Q and line up all over the field to create mismatches. My question...would Roman "get this?"

As to all your other points, spot on. I think we have a TON of work left to do. IMHO, I think we still need a dominant 3-4 2-gap NT, the heir to Justin at RDE, a starting FS, a serious upgrade in coverage over Whitner at SS, dominant RZ/EZ target TE, CB, WR and T. That's 8 picks alone right there. Can we get quality starters or potential starters for all these spots? Some we can develop for a year...some need to hit THIS year!
[ Edited by NCommand on Apr 22, 2013 at 10:51 AM ]
  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 9,748
Originally posted by NCommand:
LOL. Fair enough friend.

As far as WR, I certainly agree with you...just not us trading up and giving all our draft picks for Austin (hence the AJ/Williams comparisons). I do think we'll draft a WR though and maybe higher than some think. Like Baalke stated, the good teams draft a year or two in advance. In this case, we'll need a starting CB and WR badly given the state of flux at both spots, even as early as next year!

I do not think that we should trade up into the top 15 picks.

But, if we were to do so, the only player that I would have us take is Tavon Austin.

Again, I do not think that we should trade up that high.

I just do not think that there is much first round talent in this draft, and there is no one on defense that merits such a trade.
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by NCommand:
LOL. Fair enough friend.

As far as WR, I certainly agree with you...just not us trading up and giving all our draft picks for Austin (hence the AJ/Williams comparisons). I do think we'll draft a WR though and maybe higher than some think. Like Baalke stated, the good teams draft a year or two in advance. In this case, we'll need a starting CB and WR badly given the state of flux at both spots, even as early as next year!

I do not think that we should trade up into the top 15 picks.

But, if we were to do so, the only player that I would have us take is Tavon Austin.

Again, I do not think that we should trade up that high.

I just do not think that there is much first round talent in this draft, and there is no one on defense that merits such a trade.

I think most of us agree on that one. While I don't agree Austin would be worth it, I can understand it...and would even be somewhat excited about it b/c to me, that means HaRoman gets it and we'll be even more versatile this year (ala Amendola-Harvin-Welker-Sproles).
  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 9,748
Originally posted by NCommand:
I think most of us agree on that one. While I don't agree Austin would be worth it, I can understand it...and would even be somewhat excited about it b/c to me, that means HaRoman gets it and we'll be even more versatile this year (ala Amendola-Harvin-Welker-Sproles).



We are going to have a good draft--and it can not come soon enough.
Trade should be coming they have too many picks and not enough roster spots.
  • Kolohe
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  • Posts: 31,248
I don't think anyone knows what Harbaugh and Baalke are gonna do on draft day, shoot not even Harbaughs dad knew.
I've been indicating this all off season.. it just makes more sense to target a guy that we want a lot, and package a deal to move up.

We have so many picks this year that it wont make sense to just sit still or even move back and earn more for next year.. We are a contending team, and the best thing to do w/ all the picks we have is move up and get the guy we want.

If we want "Tank" around the mid of the 1st round and we feel positive that he wont be there by the time we pick (31st), then lets do it..