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Best (value) deep threat WR?

Best (value) deep threat WR?

  • mayo49
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 21,141
Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:
For me, it's Da'Rick Rogers...great size at 6-2, 217, quickness, and is tough to bring down. He's got strength you don't typically see at WR...great going over the middle, which is important in any WCO/read-option offense. His off-field issues seem to be behind him...I just think he has an "it" factor I didn't see in others.


This
Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
What has Justin Hunter done in the NFL again? You seem pretty interested in what he did in college. Warning: double standards can result from becoming too emotionally invested in any one particular prospect.


Are you talking sense or what ?! The guy is not even in the NFL yet, so how else can you judge him from ?! Jenkins, on the other hand has been with the 9ers for a year already. Oh and I wasn't the one who started the notion that he might be a bust. And is not just from the media alone neither, many 9ers fans also share the same concern. Busts do happen all the time, is not excactly an alien concept.

The point, which I thought was fairly clear, is that your enthusiasm for Hunter is based on his college career, and that AJJ had a more impressive college career, IMO. Both Matts stated before last season that it seemed evident from discussions with Baalke that 2012 was intended to be a developmental year for AJ, as he needed time to bulk up to NFL shape, but that his quickness, speed, and hands were uncommon NFL skills that couldn't be tought to a less gifted prospect. Now everyone is upset that the team used 2012 as a developmental year for the guy. That seems asinine. Compare the two college players, and I believe AJ comes out ahead. This year, we will see though. If he hasn't bulked up appreciably to withstand the NFL pounding, he might not have a body type that will allow for that weight gain, and he could be gone. Hunter would have the same issue here, again, IMO, in fact, he already suffered froma significant injury, too.
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
He's the STICK man, without a doubt!!! Didn't we just do speedy, productive, skinny guy? Take away Jenkins' quickness and add 3 inches, and you have Justin Hunter, except I like AJ's routes and hands better.


You like AJ's routes and hands ?! LOL. Hey, you are just being sarcastic right I hope ?! Routes, he didn't even know where to line up on the field as shown in the Cards game. Hands, didn't he drop the only pass Kaep threw him ?

Maybe you should watch some games and learn some football before coming off like a defensive fanboy. AJ runs sharp routes and gets into and out of his breaks in a hurry. Hunter rounds his routes frequently, which can negate his speed against NFl CBs. AJ routinely catches away from his body, using his massive hands to aggressively snatch the ball. I see a lot of bobbles and body balls from Hunter. AJJ played a lot for the University of Illinois. Their games were televised. There are also highlights on YouTube (it's an intenet website). Basing everything you know about a player on very limited snaps during his first pro season is foolish, especially considering that his last preseason game was impressive.

Knowing plays and running routes are very different things, too. He might not have known where to run his route from, on occassion, but that does not mean he can not run the route, or that the route itself would not be disciplined, sharp, and sudden (these things get you separation, which is a good thing).


May be you should do some research first before you start mouthing off. Know who Greg Cosell is by any chance ? Have a read :

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000160371/article/justin-hunter-is-top-wr-in-nfl-draft-greg-cosell-says
Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
He's the STICK man, without a doubt!!! Didn't we just do speedy, productive, skinny guy? Take away Jenkins' quickness and add 3 inches, and you have Justin Hunter, except I like AJ's routes and hands better.


You like AJ's routes and hands ?! LOL. Hey, you are just being sarcastic right I hope ?! Routes, he didn't even know where to line up on the field as shown in the Cards game. Hands, didn't he drop the only pass Kaep threw him ?

Maybe you should watch some games and learn some football before coming off like a defensive fanboy. AJ runs sharp routes and gets into and out of his breaks in a hurry. Hunter rounds his routes frequently, which can negate his speed against NFl CBs. AJ routinely catches away from his body, using his massive hands to aggressively snatch the ball. I see a lot of bobbles and body balls from Hunter. AJJ played a lot for the University of Illinois. Their games were televised. There are also highlights on YouTube (it's an intenet website). Basing everything you know about a player on very limited snaps during his first pro season is foolish, especially considering that his last preseason game was impressive.

Knowing plays and running routes are very different things, too. He might not have known where to run his route from, on occassion, but that does not mean he can not run the route, or that the route itself would not be disciplined, sharp, and sudden (these things get you separation, which is a good thing).


May be you should do some research first before you start mouthing off. Know who Greg Cosell is by any chance ? Have a read :

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000160371/article/justin-hunter-is-top-wr-in-nfl-draft-greg-cosell-says

Cosell is a good analyst, but he is not a coach, player or a scout, and he never has been. He has his job for the same reason that Grant Cohn has his job, but Cosell does a better job at it. That said, he is wrong on prspects every year, as is Mayock, as is Kiper, as is McShay, etc. I am also wrong every year, as is every fan. Getting defensive (again) because you got too personal over your draft crush (again), doesn't make you any more right. Concluding that you are correct because one analyst (fancy name for journalist) agrees with you is juvenile and weak. Do your own research, don't stand on someone else's just because they have a famous name.
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
The point, which I thought was fairly clear, is that your enthusiasm for Hunter is based on his college career, and that AJJ had a more impressive college career, IMO. Both Matts stated before last season that it seemed evident from discussions with Baalke that 2012 was intended to be a developmental year for AJ, as he needed time to bulk up to NFL shape, but that his quickness, speed, and hands were uncommon NFL skills that couldn't be tought to a less gifted prospect. Now everyone is upset that the team used 2012 as a developmental year for the guy. That seems asinine. Compare the two college players, and I believe AJ comes out ahead. This year, we will see though. If he hasn't bulked up appreciably to withstand the NFL pounding, he might not have a body type that will allow for that weight gain, and he could be gone. Hunter would have the same issue here, again, IMO, in fact, he already suffered froma significant injury, too.


You make AJ Jenkins sound like some college ball stud. The fact was noone knew much about him, AJ who ? The fact that the 9ers picked him also shocked just about everyone especially taking him in the 1st round. I don't know about him being a developmental player, you are not going to deny there were far better players we could have picked such as Ruben Randle, TY Hilton, just to name a couple who pretty much performed right out of the box. Seriously, is not even about his slight build, LaMike is much smaller than him and still performed very positively.
Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
The point, which I thought was fairly clear, is that your enthusiasm for Hunter is based on his college career, and that AJJ had a more impressive college career, IMO. Both Matts stated before last season that it seemed evident from discussions with Baalke that 2012 was intended to be a developmental year for AJ, as he needed time to bulk up to NFL shape, but that his quickness, speed, and hands were uncommon NFL skills that couldn't be tought to a less gifted prospect. Now everyone is upset that the team used 2012 as a developmental year for the guy. That seems asinine. Compare the two college players, and I believe AJ comes out ahead. This year, we will see though. If he hasn't bulked up appreciably to withstand the NFL pounding, he might not have a body type that will allow for that weight gain, and he could be gone. Hunter would have the same issue here, again, IMO, in fact, he already suffered froma significant injury, too.


You make AJ Jenkins sound like some college ball stud. The fact was noone knew much about him, AJ who ? The fact that the 9ers picked him also shocked just about everyone especially taking him in the 1st round. I don't know about him being a developmental player, you are not going to deny there were far better players we could have picked such as Ruben Randle, TY Hilton, just to name a couple who pretty much performed right out of the box. Seriously, is not even about his slight build, LaMike is much smaller than him and still performed very positively.

He was a college stud, he just played on a bad team, and he wasn't one of those physical freaks that gets a lot of attention during draft season. Compare his numbers with other WRs his Sr season, and watch him play. He was the only thing worth defending on that offense, his QB was garbage, and he still put up elite numbers, often taking short passes to the house and getting behind the whole defense for deep pass plays. His TDs would have been even better if his QB could hit him in stride, but he had to literally stop and wait for a lot of underthrown deep balls. I don't think that Hilton would have gotten on the field for us. I think Randle might have, but he will never be the deep threat that AJ could be (higher floor, lower ceiling).

Edit: besides his numbers being impressive because he was the only weapon that Defenses had to take away, he also played injured through the majority of the season.
[ Edited by WRATHman44 on Apr 17, 2013 at 1:05 PM ]
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Cosell is a good analyst, but he is not a coach, player or a scout, and he never has been. He has his job for the same reason that Grant Cohn has his job, but Cosell does a better job at it. That said, he is wrong on prspects every year, as is Mayock, as is Kiper, as is McShay, etc. I am also wrong every year, as is every fan. Getting defensive (again) because you got too personal over your draft crush (again), doesn't make you any more right. Concluding that you are correct because one analyst (fancy name for journalist) agrees with you is juvenile and weak. Do your own research, don't stand on someone else's just because they have a famous name.


I don't know about who is right, who is wrong cos you will never know until proven. Cosell is supposed to be a professional analyst and a highly regarded one at that. I am not paid to do this, this is not my line of profession, at least I am not going to pretend I know more than the likes of Cosell, Mayock and Kiper cos I respect what they do. Afterall, I wasn't at the Combine and all the pro-days in person myself. My point of view comes from what I see on film and what some of these analysts have to say. Besides, Baalke and Harbaugh can also make mistakes too. Don't just shower AJ Jenkins with compliments just because Baalke and Harbaugh picked him or you happen to have a crush on the guy cos he is yet to perform.
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
He was a college stud, he just played on a bad team, and he wasn't one of those physical freaks that gets a lot of attention during draft season. Compare his numbers with other WRs his Sr season, and watch him play. He was the only thing worth defending on that offense, his QB was garbage, and he still put up elite numbers, often taking short passes to the house and getting behind the whole defense for deep pass plays. His TDs would have been even better if his QB could hit him in stride, but he had to literally stop and wait for a lot of underthrown deep balls. I don't think that Hilton would have gotten on the field for us. I think Randle might have, but he will never be the deep threat that AJ could be (higher floor, lower ceiling).

Edit: besides his numbers being impressive because he was the only weapon that Defenses had to take away, he also played injured through the majority of the season.


Wow, AJ Jenkins being better than Randle as a deep threat ?! OK, I am speechless now. You better hope you are right, cos I will be waiting for those 50 yard bombs this coming season.
Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Cosell is a good analyst, but he is not a coach, player or a scout, and he never has been. He has his job for the same reason that Grant Cohn has his job, but Cosell does a better job at it. That said, he is wrong on prspects every year, as is Mayock, as is Kiper, as is McShay, etc. I am also wrong every year, as is every fan. Getting defensive (again) because you got too personal over your draft crush (again), doesn't make you any more right. Concluding that you are correct because one analyst (fancy name for journalist) agrees with you is juvenile and weak. Do your own research, don't stand on someone else's just because they have a famous name.


I don't know about who is right, who is wrong cos you will never know until proven. Cosell is supposed to be a professional analyst and a highly regarded one at that. I am not paid to do this, this is not my line of profession, at least I am not going to pretend I know more than the likes of Cosell, Mayock and Kiper cos I respect what they do. Afterall, I wasn't at the Combine and all the pro-days in person myself. My point of view comes from what I see on film and what some of these analysts have to say. Besides, Baalke and Harbaugh can also make mistakes too. Don't just shower AJ Jenkins with compliments just because Baalke and Harbaugh picked him or you happen to have a crush on the guy cos he is yet to perform.

You have access to the All 22 on college players? Pretty impressive! I never said I have a crush on AJ, or that I am sure he will pan out. I simply stated that Hunter is too similar of a prospect to AJ for me to see him as a value in the first. Thanks for putting words in my mouth, though. That is neither a mature nor effective argument, but do what you want.

I would still find Rodgers to be a better value in the third thatn Hunter would be in the first, as I prefer him to Hunter straight up, and the decreased draft capital necessary to select Rodgers allows us to devote those resources to other areas of the team.
I just wish people would understand it takes time for WRs to develop ...if AJ was a second round pick nobody would be calling him a bust after one yr.. do we not remember it took kaep two yrs before he got his chance N nobody said sh*t...AJ was a late round pick for a reason cause he wasn't a green or any of tha other TOP 10 WRs taken in tha past few yrs...N please be original N not just like everybody else ...
Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
He was a college stud, he just played on a bad team, and he wasn't one of those physical freaks that gets a lot of attention during draft season. Compare his numbers with other WRs his Sr season, and watch him play. He was the only thing worth defending on that offense, his QB was garbage, and he still put up elite numbers, often taking short passes to the house and getting behind the whole defense for deep pass plays. His TDs would have been even better if his QB could hit him in stride, but he had to literally stop and wait for a lot of underthrown deep balls. I don't think that Hilton would have gotten on the field for us. I think Randle might have, but he will never be the deep threat that AJ could be (higher floor, lower ceiling).

Edit: besides his numbers being impressive because he was the only weapon that Defenses had to take away, he also played injured through the majority of the season.


Wow, AJ Jenkins being better than Randle as a deep threat ?! OK, I am speechless now. You better hope you are right, cos I will be waiting for those 50 yard bombs this coming season.

You said speechless, then you kept going. Yes, I said AJ has the potential to be much better as a deep threat than Randle. Randle had 2 catches over 40 yards last year. That isn't such astonishing production that it should dumbfound you that a much master, quicker WR could become better than him. AJ got well behind the defense a couple of times last year, in his very limited REGULAR SEASON reps, Kap just didn't see him because protection was breaking down. You want to act like you know that AJ is no good after one season, or that you know Hunter will be good because yu like something he has to offer. The fact is we don't know. I don't know that Rodgers will be better than Hunter, but I like that he plays just as fast as Hunter, while bringing better strength, durability, physicality, and violence at the point of contact. I also like that he is widely regarded as available in the 3rd, vs late 1-early 2.
Originally posted by tatdwolf49:
I just wish people would understand it takes time for WRs to develop ...if AJ was a second round pick nobody would be calling him a bust after one yr.. do we not remember it took kaep two yrs before he got his chance N nobody said sh*t...AJ was a late round pick for a reason cause he wasn't a green or any of tha other TOP 10 WRs taken in tha past few yrs...N please be original N not just like everybody else ...


No, no, no. Kaep didn't have a chance to play until his 2nd year, that is different. But, when he did get his chance he sure maxed it out. And same as LaMike, he was a rookie like AJ too and when his number was called he performed. It has nothing in being original, that is a simply a childish comment. Either the guy performs or he doesn't. Don't mask up facts. Kaep and LaMike played well and naturally credit went where credit was due. If AJ had performed accordingly, the fans would have be cheering for him too, but he didn't. Don't just pick someone different just for the sake of being "original", this is a bloody huge investment for the orgainization here !!
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
You have access to the All 22 on college players? Pretty impressive! I never said I have a crush on AJ, or that I am sure he will pan out. I simply stated that Hunter is too similar of a prospect to AJ for me to see him as a value in the first. Thanks for putting words in my mouth, though. That is neither a mature nor effective argument, but do what you want.

I would still find Rodgers to be a better value in the third thatn Hunter would be in the first, as I prefer him to Hunter straight up, and the decreased draft capital necessary to select Rodgers allows us to devote those resources to other areas of the team.


How old are you ? In your 20s or even younger ? What you prefer is fine, just don't force me to follow your view. You can prefer AJ and Rogers as much as you want. I am sticking with Justin Hunter, thank you very much.
Plan N simple truth is everybody needs time to develop ...even tha goat didn't have tha best rookie yr h*ll JJ Stokes sucked his whole career N we trade up alot to pick him yet he was around for yrs...N sry a late first round pick doesn't make or break organization that's just drama talk ...
Originally posted by tatdwolf49:
Plan N simple truth is everybody needs time to develop ...even tha goat didn't have tha best rookie yr h*ll JJ Stokes sucked his whole career N we trade up alot to pick him yet he was around for yrs...N sry a late first round pick doesn't make or break organization that's just drama talk ...


Let's be realistic here. The 9ers will give him time and that is this coming season. What do you think the 9ers will do if he still can't perform ? I have no problem at all if he can come out and perform like a champ, but if he doesn't you know is going to be issues. The problem I had was with WRATHman44 who made AJ sound like some sort of superstar. Not everybody's college performance can translate into the NFL, if AJ couldn't do it he wouldn't be the only one. So, let's see what he can do this season then.