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Eric Martin, Late round ST/OLB sleeper. ETA: Now with moar Ace/ST discussion.

Originally posted by gold49digger:
Originally posted by LieutKaffee:
Totally on board with finding a return man in this draft. Maybe Ace Sanders is the guy. As far as I can tell, Kyle Williams curently tops our PR depth chart (with LMJ atop the KR list), and frankly I think it's time to move on from that. Even when Williams's hands and decision-making are up to par, he's an average PR man at best.

I kind of find it funny and ironic that people are content with KW returning.

Not I, I can tell you that. Although I think I read some indications that the Marlon dude was signed to compete for that role with LMJ and Williams, so it may still be that Baalke won't draft a PR specialist. We'll see. I think getting a DB or WR who excels in that role would be great.
Originally posted by LieutKaffee:
Totally on board with finding a return man in this draft. Maybe Ace Sanders is the guy. As far as I can tell, Kyle Williams curently tops our PR depth chart (with LMJ atop the KR list), and frankly I think it's time to move on from that. Even when Williams's hands and decision-making are up to par, he's an average PR man at best.

I like KW, and i think he is the best PR man we have, but i think Ace sanders would be a definate upgrade. If you can upgrade in round 5/6 at PR you do so. Ace Sanders is that man IMO.
Originally posted by gold49digger:
Originally posted by LieutKaffee:
Totally on board with finding a return man in this draft. Maybe Ace Sanders is the guy. As far as I can tell, Kyle Williams curently tops our PR depth chart (with LMJ atop the KR list), and frankly I think it's time to move on from that. Even when Williams's hands and decision-making are up to par, he's an average PR man at best.

I kind of find it funny and ironic that people are content with KW returning.

KW was the best PR guy we had last season. Should have never been benched in favor of Ginn, But imo Ace would be an upgrade, and in round 5/6 Why not? Guys taken lat like that will have a hard time making the roster, and be lucky ever to make the PS. Ace could give us great value.
Just for perspective.....Lauches his body, leads with his helmet. Everyone loved this hit.
Originally posted by LieutKaffee:
Not I, I can tell you that. Although I think I read some indications that the Marlon dude was signed to compete for that role with LMJ and Williams, so it may still be that Baalke won't draft a PR specialist. We'll see. I think getting a DB or WR who excels in that role would be great.
Marlon looks like he got some speed but has he had any experience returning? I don't want an inexperienced returner when the games are in the line (ex. KW 2 years ago and Phillip Adams against the saints).

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
KW was the best PR guy we had last season. Should have never been benched in favor of Ginn, But imo Ace would be an upgrade, and in round 5/6 Why not? Guys taken lat like that will have a hard time making the roster, and be lucky ever to make the PS. Ace could give us great value.
Ace Sanders would be a good pickup, reminds me of a smaller Hester. Not super fast but has nasty moves that breakes ankles. Plus he can compete with KW for the slot.
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Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Just for perspective.....Lauches his body, leads with his helmet. Everyone loved this hit.

Don't be ridiculous... Donte Whitner was tackling a ball carrier who saw him coming. That is nothing like your video of Martin laying a dirty, helmet first crack back block on a guy who never saw it coming. That first video is dirty, plain and simple. I understand you like the guy but don't let that cloud your judgement on the hit. He led with his helmet on a crack back block, that's dirty. I understand that you like his physicality, but that stuff belongs in the old NFL. Today's NFL is too soft for guys like Eric Martin.
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Originally posted by tatdwolf49:
So u have seen everyone of my 468 now 469 posts? ?? N I have said good things about picks or players I like sry I ain't on everyone flash in tha pants player like everybody else is ...

Ill await your mock draft and player rankings. One that is realistic. Not trading 5 picks to move up 5 spots to get Datone.

I didn't know know trading up a few picks to get a player u want is against tha rules ...
Originally posted by DVDA:
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Just for perspective.....Lauches his body, leads with his helmet. Everyone loved this hit.

Don't be ridiculous... Donte Whitner was tackling a ball carrier who saw him coming. That is nothing like your video of Martin laying a dirty, helmet first crack back block on a guy who never saw it coming. That first video is dirty, plain and simple. I understand you like the guy but don't let that cloud your judgement on the hit. He led with his helmet on a crack back block, that's dirty. I understand that you like his physicality, but that stuff belongs in the old NFL. Today's NFL is too soft for guys like Eric Martin.

I disagree. Its ST. Blocks like that spring return men for TD's, which his return man got on that play. The second video as just as nasty, and wasnt a crack back at all. The player saw him coming and ducked bracing for impact. An Thomas may have seen whitner, but by the time he did, it was far too late to react or protect himself. He was defenseless, just like the guy in the return video. I understand it scares people when guys get laid out like that, and i dont get off watching hits like that and i always fear for a players safety after taking a brutal hit, but when it comes to KR, blocks like that are important and can mean the differance in a game, just like whitners hit. Its why one of the first things you learn in football, een as early as pop warner, is keep your head on a swivel.
[ Edited by IdahoNiner on Apr 14, 2013 at 10:35 PM ]
Here's what I will say. My initial comment wasn't meant to go quite as far as saying I'd take Martin off my draft board because of the hit, but it's fun that it sparked this debate anyway.

You're right that these clips indicate he has a lot of great qualities for a ST specialist, including some reckless abandon. I don't agree that the Whitner/Thomas hit is comparable, but I would obviously concede that the 49ers have made hits I don't "approve" of. You don't stop being a fan of a team just because they have a dirty player or two, ha.

I love the premise of this thread, which is getting bona fide ST specialists late in the draft. Totally on board. And if Martin is the guy, I'm sure he can adapt to what the rules allow, and I'm also sure we can endure a personal foul every now and then.
Originally posted by LieutKaffee:
Here's what I will say. My initial comment wasn't meant to go quite as far as saying I'd take Martin off my draft board because of the hit, but it's fun that it sparked this debate anyway.

You're right that these clips indicate he has a lot of great qualities for a ST specialist, including some reckless abandon. I don't agree that the Whitner/Thomas hit is comparable, but I would obviously concede that the 49ers have made hits I don't "approve" of. You don't stop being a fan of a team just because they have a dirty player or two, ha.

I love the premise of this thread, which is getting bona fide ST specialists late in the draft. Totally on board. And if Martin is the guy, I'm sure he can adapt to what the rules allow, and I'm also sure we can endure a personal foul every now and then.



I think ST players is an undervalued need at this point. And with so many picks, some of them being late comp picks, it makes sense to try to address that need late if we can instead of getting players that wont make any contribution. Obviously the ST last season was not what it was the season prior.

I can understand the controvesial aspect of those videos, but its tough to find Highlight reels for late round prospects, and these videos are obiously the ones you can find because of the controesial nature behind them. Those plays aside he was still a stud on ST. He as also a stud with his hand in the dirt, and while a bit of a tweener in size, could offer a nice deelopmental depth while contributeing heaily on ST.
If you think there's such a thing as a dirty hit in football
You should wipe the sand out of your hangy vagina
And become a fan of a different sport
And Oprah's book club
Because sadly you have forgotten what football is all about
No holds barred smashing on the gridiron
The NFL pretends to care about concussions and helmet-to-helmet hits and "defenseless receivers"
Only to pre-emptively cut losses from lawsuits down the road
If you think there's such a thing as a dirty hit in football
Go watch some soccer
Where the injuries are as fake as your girlfriend's moans
And go watch The Notebook while you're at it
You pansy
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Originally posted by Wheelz29:
I don't like ace , poor mans LMJ

I have never seen LMJ break legs like Ace sanders. Hes not half the PR man Ace sanders is, and cant catch the football like Ace either.

LMJ has good lateral movment, but doesnt snap ankles like Ace. LMJ is more elusive.

Two differant players, playing two differant positions offering two different skillsets. LMJ is not the return man Ace Sanders is.

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Originally posted by Wheelz29:
I don't like ace , poor mans LMJ

I have never seen LMJ break legs like Ace sanders. Hes not half the PR man Ace sanders is, and cant catch the football like Ace either.

LMJ has good lateral movment, but doesnt snap ankles like Ace. LMJ is more elusive.

Two differant players, playing two differant positions offering two different skillsets. LMJ is not the return man Ace Sanders is.
Looking back, he does look more agile, looks faster than his 40, maybe late 3rd rd 4th would be good
Originally posted by Wheelz29:
Looking back, he does look more agile, looks faster than his 40, maybe late 3rd rd 4th would be good

I wouldnt necissarily say more agile. Both LMJ and Ace are plent agile, just in differant ways. What Ace has is the ability to stop and start again instantaniously, and with that the ability to plant and move lateral. The "break angles" ability. He also has great vision, an the ability to read defenders closing on him. LMJ on the other hand is more elusive. Picking spots behind blockers, finding the open spots then exploding. He doesnt hae the stop and start ability Ace has, and doesnt have quite the lateral movment either. Thats not a knock on LMJ, they are just differant. At PR its not even close IMO. Ace is the better PR.

3/4 is actually a bit high for him by most peoples accounts. Not saying he wont go that high, but most have him going later than that which is what makes him a steal.
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Originally posted by Wheelz29:
Looking back, he does look more agile, looks faster than his 40, maybe late 3rd rd 4th would be good

I wouldnt necissarily say more agile. Both LMJ and Ace are plent agile, just in differant ways. What Ace has is the ability to stop and start again instantaniously, and with that the ability to plant and move lateral. The "break angles" ability. He also has great vision, an the ability to read defenders closing on him. LMJ on the other hand is more elusive. Picking spots behind blockers, finding the open spots then exploding. He doesnt hae the stop and start ability Ace has, and doesnt have quite the lateral movment either. Thats not a knock on LMJ, they are just differant. At PR its not even close IMO. Ace is the better PR.

3/4 is actually a bit high for him by most peoples accounts. Not saying he wont go that high, but most have him going later than that which is what makes him a steal.
At the very least he will handle the kr/pr duties, not sure if he can get off the line on a consistent basis
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Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Originally posted by DVDA:
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Just for perspective.....Lauches his body, leads with his helmet. Everyone loved this hit.

Don't be ridiculous... Donte Whitner was tackling a ball carrier who saw him coming. That is nothing like your video of Martin laying a dirty, helmet first crack back block on a guy who never saw it coming. That first video is dirty, plain and simple. I understand you like the guy but don't let that cloud your judgement on the hit. He led with his helmet on a crack back block, that's dirty. I understand that you like his physicality, but that stuff belongs in the old NFL. Today's NFL is too soft for guys like Eric Martin.

I disagree. Its ST. Blocks like that spring return men for TD's, which his return man got on that play. The second video as just as nasty, and wasnt a crack back at all. The player saw him coming and ducked bracing for impact. An Thomas may have seen whitner, but by the time he did, it was far too late to react or protect himself. He was defenseless, just like the guy in the return video. I understand it scares people when guys get laid out like that, and i dont get off watching hits like that and i always fear for a players safety after taking a brutal hit, but when it comes to KR, blocks like that are important and can mean the differance in a game, just like whitners hit. Its why one of the first things you learn in football, een as early as pop warner, is keep your head on a swivel.

The first video is a helmet first block he threw on an unsuspecting victim. The guy who got laid out should have had his head on a swivel but he should never have to worry about a guy leading with his helmet to block him. I wouldn't have a problem with it if he had laid the guy out with his shoulder. My problem is that he used his helmet as a weapon to absolutely lay out a guy who didn't see it coming. That is bush league b******t that wont fly in the ever evolving pansy football league.

The second video is entirely different from the first. There are no comparisons of taking on a blocker to laying a crack back block on someone. Honestly, I like the second video because it shows he isn't going to play patty cake with blockers; he's going to run right through them. My one problem is that he relies on his helmet to create first contact, but that can be fixed. If he changes a few things, particularly using his helmet as a weapon, then I would be very happy with him as a special teams tone setter.