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Evolve don't Revolve

Originally posted by buck:
Assertions are not facts.

I am not sure if statistics are really facts, either, but here are some interesting stats that seem to indicate that defense might really win Championships. .

If you look at the stats for last years play-offs, SF was:
1. #1 in total offense
2. #1 in rushing offense
3. # 1 in points scored per game


The Ravens were tied for 2nd second best in scoring defense; in points given up per game.

SF was the second worst in points given up per game.


The problem with that is one game can skew everything since we're talking about a very small sample size. Offensively we had the greatest game of all time against GB but got completely shut out in the 1st halves of the other 2 games.
Originally posted by LieutKaffee:
Originally posted by NCommand:

What do you think about playing time of draft picks that can help us this year (and the future) to get us over the top?
FS and/or SS: Could start and play every snap from day 1
NT: Would play 50% of the snaps or more if effective in a 4-man DL in our coverage packages
TE: Would play 50% of the snaps and more if he adds to the WR formations and blocks effectively
WR: AJ didn't see the field all of last year and would a top draft pick really start over Boldin/Crabtree or even AJ/Manningham/Williams in the slot this year? Sounds like Lockette is making a run at a spot as well.
One of the best posts in this thread. Said it much better than I did.

Thanks...felt pretty good about this philosophy for THIS year until I read Baalke's recent comments: "The teams that have been successful are drafting for need a year or two ahead of time," Baalke explained.

So could this allude to drafting WR & CB's high b/c of this disarray and short-term solutions we (still) have here?
We spent a lot of picks last year on Offense to make our team elite for the future.

This year we focus back on the D

The way this team is built contractually it looks like we may draft defense this year and offense next year, so on and so forth
  • Andra
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 137
Originally posted by Rascal:
Wow, finally another like-minded 9ers fan. I have been saying all along to give priorty to the O as opposed to the D. My key rationale are 2 fold :

1) "Defense doesn't win championships" anymore
2) Our current crop of stars from the 2005-2007 draft class such as Frank, Vernon and Pat are aging now - as such as MUST WIN NOW

I am not sure about trading all the way up to get Patterson or Austin cos they would require a lot to get it done. But, I will say this, I want a top tall deep threat wideout at least at 31st and followed by a top TE at 34th. To me, they are :

  • 31st - Justin Hunter
  • 34th - Zach Ertz

Honestly, in my opinion, we are just a couple of offensive weapons to get us over the hump. Our O has got to a point in being decent, but unless we place priorty at the draft to further bolster our line-up, we are going to be worse than last season. Anquan is a huge addition and easily replaced Randy Moss. But, Manningham from all accounts doesn't seem like he will be ready for the start of the season. Then, you add on the loss of Delanie which is huge. It is imperative we need to not just fill the holes but to ensure we have legit playmakers in thoss positions.

Let's face it, when we are down by 17, who is going to get it done for us ? Simple, our O. We have got to a point of being explosive with Kaep under center, but with a couple of more weapons, it will take us over the edge.

But, hey if you can find a way to get us Cordarrelle Patterson, please do it as long as it doesn't affect our TE pick.

the niners will be coming from behind every game if they don't shoreup there D-line and thats no way to win a superbowl.the DE,DT draft class is not nearly as talented in the later rounds of the draft as TE or WR .Take care of D-line first,solid TEs and WRs will be avalable later in the draft
Originally posted by NCommand:
Rascal...looks like you agree on HaRoman and let's not forget CK either. We had a TD on the QB roll-left but Harbaugh called a TO instead. That would have been the second running play. Then CK checked out to Crabtree. On more than one occasion, Walker and VD were wide open. So it was a major team fail which is what we did all last year...rarely did one unit overshadow the other. It was either a team win or a major team loss. That's the sign of a young team too.

What do you think about playing time of draft picks that can help us this year (and the future) to get us over the top?
FS and/or SS: Could start and play every snap from day 1
NT: Would play 50% of the snaps or more if effective in a 4-man DL in our coverage packages
TE: Would play 50% of the snaps and more if he adds to the WR formations and blocks effectively
WR: AJ didn't see the field all of last year and would a top draft pick really start over Boldin/Crabtree or even AJ/Manningham/Williams in the slot this year? Sounds like Lockette is making a run at a spot as well.

I have to disagree with the nose tackle stat. Last year Soap was on the field for 30% of our plays. A nose tackle would really only be on the field for 55% of our plays so unless that rookie completely takes over I'm guessing he'll probably see closer to 30% as well. Nickel packages it's Aldon, Smith, McDonald, Brooks.

I think we might be underestimating Delanie's versatility too. Like Hernandez he's an H Back opposed to a traditional tight end. I'm not sure if traditional tight end would see as much time because he can't do everything that Delanie could.
I can see why people think we draft a FS because we lost Goldson but it won't make us better.

Baalke's job is to make us a better than team than last year so:

Goldson>1st round pick
Goldson>Trent Robinson

So picking a FS in with #31 or #34 does not make our team better.

The whole point I was alluding to is strengthen the WR and TE core with 1st two picks which in turn strengthens the offense so our O is better than it was last year. Then with the next 4 picks strengthen up the D with depth.

An O of Crabtree, Boldin, Williams, (a 2nd yr AJ), De'Andre Hopkins, Vernon Davis, Tyler Eifert is better than last years Crabtree, Moss, Williams, Manningham, Vernon Davis and Walker

The way I'm looking at it is we need to be better than last year. Yes a backup DT/DE would make us marginally better especially later in the season so I'm happy for us to move up from #61 and pick a Kawann Short or Brandon Williams but giving Kap 2/3 more weapons on O will make us better immediately and keep us looking ahead for when future contracts are coming to discussion.
[ Edited by smithc28 on Apr 19, 2013 at 12:02 AM ]
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Rascal...looks like you agree on HaRoman and let's not forget CK either. We had a TD on the QB roll-left but Harbaugh called a TO instead. That would have been the second running play. Then CK checked out to Crabtree. On more than one occasion, Walker and VD were wide open. So it was a major team fail which is what we did all last year...rarely did one unit overshadow the other. It was either a team win or a major team loss. That's the sign of a young team too.

What do you think about playing time of draft picks that can help us this year (and the future) to get us over the top?
FS and/or SS: Could start and play every snap from day 1
NT: Would play 50% of the snaps or more if effective in a 4-man DL in our coverage packages
TE: Would play 50% of the snaps and more if he adds to the WR formations and blocks effectively
WR: AJ didn't see the field all of last year and would a top draft pick really start over Boldin/Crabtree or even AJ/Manningham/Williams in the slot this year? Sounds like Lockette is making a run at a spot as well.

I have to disagree with the nose tackle stat. Last year Soap was on the field for 30% of our plays. A nose tackle would really only be on the field for 55% of our plays so unless that rookie completely takes over I'm guessing he'll probably see closer to 30% as well. Nickel packages it's Aldon, Smith, McDonald, Brooks.

I think we might be underestimating Delanie's versatility too. Like Hernandez he's an H Back opposed to a traditional tight end. I'm not sure if traditional tight end would see as much time because he can't do everything that Delanie could.

Yeah, MB showed collectively, the NT plays about 50% of the snaps (so both Sopoaga and RJF and a few snaps from Williams). BUT, part of that is b/c we played a ton of pass-happy teams and passing is what most teams do against us. They try to spread us out.

That said, an area we suffered a lot last year was when a team had a power running game and big physical OL and were stubborn with it. We face a TON of these teams this year. That is when you truly need your two-gap NT. We only had 1-gap NT's and when Sopoaga & RJF were getting blocked with one OL, even Justin/Aldon Smith was getting run on rather easily. We desparetely need a wall in there that not only can cover up both A-gaps but also help collapse the step-up area for the QB at times.

Our OLB's provided consistent pressure on the outside but the QB always seemed to have room to step up in the pocket to avoid the pass rush and complete passes or he'd run for big first downs. Brooks alone must have had a dozen tackles-from-behind last year (all short gainers). If we get that two-gap NT, he may be playing almost all of the 50% b/c his role wouldn't change. He'd be the two-gap NT in a base 3-4 and remain there when we go to a 4-man DL (with Dorsey and Justin to the right and McDonald to his left).
[ Edited by NCommand on Apr 19, 2013 at 7:04 AM ]
Originally posted by smithc28:
I can see why people think we draft a FS because we lost Goldson but it won't make us better.

Baalke's job is to make us a better than team than last year so:

Goldson>1st round pick
Goldson>Trent Robinson

So picking a FS in with #31 or #34 does not make our team better.

The whole point I was alluding to is strengthen the WR and TE core with 1st two picks which in turn strengthens the offense so our O is better than it was last year. Then with the next 4 picks strengthen up the D with depth.

An O of Crabtree, Boldin, Williams, (a 2nd yr AJ), De'Andre Hopkins, Vernon Davis, Tyler Eifert is better than last years Crabtree, Moss, Williams, Manningham, Vernon Davis and Walker

The way I'm looking at it is we need to be better than last year. Yes a backup DT/DE would make us marginally better especially later in the season so I'm happy for us to move up from #61 and pick a Kawann Short or Brandon Williams but giving Kap 2/3 more weapons on O will make us better immediately and keep us looking ahead for when future contracts are coming to discussion.


That's what I have been saying all along as well, only I have a different WR choice than yours. But, bottomline is we MUST be better than last year to stand a chance to get back to the big dance.
I don't want to become the old Lions who took a wr with their first pick every stinking year.

Lets give AJ this year to see what the dude has. Maybe he is a slow learner and needed time to take in all the playbook. Trent must have seen something to make a reach with that pick last year.

We have plenty of weapons on O even without AJ and I also don't want to become the Falcons who give Matty Ice everthing in the world and then have a D that can't stop a flee! I love watching our D just take it to an opposing O, it sets a tone for the entire team and helps out the O in lots of ways.

Need FS, DE/DT and CB in this years draft or we will suffer in the coming years.
Originally posted by rk1642:
I don't want to become the old Lions who took a wr with their first pick every stinking year.

Lets give AJ this year to see what the dude has. Maybe he is a slow learner and needed time to take in all the playbook. Trent must have seen something to make a reach with that pick last year.

We have plenty of weapons on O even without AJ and I also don't want to become the Falcons who give Matty Ice everthing in the world and then have a D that can't stop a flee! I love watching our D just take it to an opposing O, it sets a tone for the entire team and helps out the O in lots of ways.

Need FS, DE/DT and CB in this years draft or we will suffer in the coming years.


Whether we give AJ a chance or not has nothing to do with our draft. Is up to him to win out in training camp to earn a starting spot just like anyone else. If you are talking about incumbents, my money is on Ricardo more than AJ if I have to be honest.

Watching our O dishing it to the opposing O can be fun and entertaining, that's not to say it will win games. Then, don't forget certain teams have made considerable improvements during the offseason, if we don't add weapons on the offensive of the ball, we will definitely fall behind.