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Evolve don't Revolve

Originally posted by Rascal:
That's pretty interesting stuff indeed !! I especially like the first 2 quotes. LOL.

I figured you'd like that...truly helps your case/prediction!
Originally posted by NCommand:
I figured you'd like that...truly helps your case/prediction!


LOL. Well, there is always hope I guess. I wouldn't say is my prediction, but more of an outside chance hope that's all. But, Justin Hunter's stock seems to be rising though :

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000160910/article/are-justin-hunter-david-amerson-firstround-picks
Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by NCommand:
I figured you'd like that...truly helps your case/prediction!


LOL. Well, there is always hope I guess. I wouldn't say is my prediction, but more of an outside chance hope that's all. But, Justin Hunter's stock seems to be rising though :

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000160910/article/are-justin-hunter-david-amerson-firstround-picks

D*MN u be pimping hunter hard are u his agent or something lol
Originally posted by tatdwolf49:
D*MN u be pimping hunter hard are u his agent or something lol


Hey, you got to work it you know. LOL. Don't blame me, I didn't write the article. LOL.

On a more serious note, if we have to play Justin Hunter, Cordarrelle Patterson or Tavon Austin twice a year, I would be pretty upset. So, is in our own interest to get a legit weapon of our own to arm ourselves.
Originally posted by NCommand:

What do you think about playing time of draft picks that can help us this year (and the future) to get us over the top?
FS and/or SS: Could start and play every snap from day 1
NT: Would play 50% of the snaps or more if effective in a 4-man DL in our coverage packages
TE: Would play 50% of the snaps and more if he adds to the WR formations and blocks effectively
WR: AJ didn't see the field all of last year and would a top draft pick really start over Boldin/Crabtree or even AJ/Manningham/Williams in the slot this year? Sounds like Lockette is making a run at a spot as well.
One of the best posts in this thread. Said it much better than I did.
  • LVJay
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 4,034
Next draft, maybe, but not this year.

Niners lose two D-Line men (Soap/RJF) and replace them with Dorsey -- still minus one veteran.
Then, they promote a back up (Ian Williams) to be a starter... that makes the depth on D-Line even worse than last year!

We lose Goldson (best DB Niners had last yr) and haven't replaced him with a veteran yet?!!

The offense is already better than last year with the addition of Boldin and Kap in his 3rd yr. Niners are set in the running game, no need for RB in this draft.
Out of these four (Williams, Manningham, Lockette and Jenkins), one of them will lock down that 3rd WR spot. I suppose camp/preseason will determine the rest... ALSO, let's not underestimate Celek -- He's a good blocker and the boy can catch. He just needs more playing time.

I don't think HarBaalke will neglect offense, but I don't believe they'll get out of the first 3 rounds w/out two D-Linemen and at least one safety.
  • buck
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Originally posted by LVJay:
Next draft, maybe, but not this year.

Niners lose two D-Line men (Soap/RJF) and replace them with Dorsey -- still minus one veteran.
Then, they promote a back up (Ian Williams) to be a starter... that makes the depth on D-Line even worse than last year!

We lose Goldson (best DB Niners had last yr) and haven't replaced him with a veteran yet?!!

The offense is already better than last year with the addition of Boldin and Kap in his 3rd yr. Niners are set in the running game, no need for RB in this draft.
Out of these four (Williams, Manningham, Lockette and Jenkins), one of them will lock down that 3rd WR spot. I suppose camp/preseason will determine the rest... ALSO, let's not underestimate Celek -- He's a good blocker and the boy can catch. He just needs more playing time.

I don't think HarBaalke will neglect offense, but I don't believe they'll get out of the first 3 rounds w/out two D-Linemen and at least one safety.

We do have 5 picks in the first three rounds.

So, if you are right, and I do not doubt that you are, we could take two defensive linemen and a safety, plus a tight end and a wide receiver in the first three rounds.

I am not saying that we will or we won't; just we could.
Originally posted by Rascal:
No, I don't agree with Greg Roman. That was also a dumb move on his part to throw the ball 3 times in a row when we should have pounded it in. But, even if you discount that play, what was up with all the slow starts ? All the 3 and outs in the first half is becoming a trend.
The Raven's said after the SB that they were going to make Kaep AND the niners beat them with the pass and if go back and look at the last series, they were playing the run-read option included. Besides the holding, they screwed when they had Kaep roll right, cutting his and the niners options in half. I do agre about the slow start on the O, but the D as well. If the D played stout in the begining, then perhaps the O would get the ball more often and in sync sooner.
As for playing time, the TE will be fine as you said. As for the WR, that will have to depend on the guy himself. If he is a fast learner, there is no rule in the book that in the beginin that says every WR will have such a huge issue in understanding the offense and playbook like AJJ. Honestly, I believe we will try to play AJ, but at the same time very soon we will discover the guy just doesn't have it. Like you, I also believe Ricardo will give it a run, but that's OK to me cos we don't even know whether Mario can play. Also, don't totally discount injuries, noone expected we would lose 2 wideouts and 1 RB last year. Plus, if we get a legit deep threat wideout, the guy is not going to compete for rotation for the slot. He will have a much more unique role in going deep. The key is to pick a "great" WR, if the guy has the talent, it will show up during mini camp and training camp. Honestly, if QBs (which is a even more technical position) can play right out of the box, I believe a true WR talent can to.
You keep say great wide receiver, but how will he get reps to be great with Bolden and Crabtree not to mention VD in front of him for opps at the ball, not to mention the running backs and the fact the 2nd TE will get 50% of the snaps. Jerry Rice played full time and only got 50+ balls, and that was with an established team that clark and a good TE. You don't find great wr at our draft position (when I say great I mean HOF).

  • LVJay
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  • Posts: 4,034
Originally posted by buck:
We do have 5 picks in the first three rounds.

So, if you are right, and I do not doubt that you are, we could take two defensive linemen and a safety, plus a tight end and a wide receiver in the first three rounds.

I am not saying that we will or we won't; just we could.

That would be cool, I don't have a prob with that. And, since they picked up Nnamdi, the DB situation is a little better... it could get a lot better with Woodson on board to help out the youngster(s) from the draft.

IMO, those first 5 picks will (all) see some playing time and not just sit on the bench all season. I do like DeAndre Hopkins, Kelce and a couple other WR/TEs, but not with the first two picks. The Niners seriously need 1 DE and 1 Safety (day-one-starters) at the very least.
Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:
Here's what I see as the difference between taking receivers early as opposed to DL & S...there's a bigger drop-off in talent among the big dudes than the receivers. Getting one of the best FS early is just a no-brainer...it's a true position of need and to go WR/TE with the 1st two picks, while looking "sexy" doesn't cut the mustard. I get the point...load up the offense so we simply outscore everyone...but, the problem I have with that is what got us to the SB was balance...we became a strong offense when Kap took over. However, as the season wound down the defense struggled, largely because of JS's injury, but it also showed too much of a dependence on him and a lack of quality b/u's that Fangio trusted. So, it makes perfect sense to address that depth early on, when the best "bigs" are available. I'd be happy with two of them at #31 and 34, then take FS Phillip Thomas at #61. We could still get an excellent TE in Kelce and WR D. Rogers in the 3rd. Both those guys should help solidify TE and WR without sacrificing top DL and S talent earlier.

This is more or less what I have been saying. The talent is in the DL and Safety, wr there is no green or jones, it is more even keeled talent wise and geared for the later rounds in 3rd through 4th although teams will reach. When assessing talent level, where would they stack in a good year for wr like maybe last year? You go for the value, because when the others do and it disppears then you miss out, at least on paper especially if it matches up with a need. Like you said, everyone wants the sexy pick. AJ, needs time to develope. I think he will be okay. Plus Boldin, Manningham, and Williams, I am sure we will resign one of them next year.

However, we are talking about Baalke-one thing is for sure, most of us will be going what!!!??? or Huh???!!
I have no idea who we will take, just that I would like to see a safety, DL, CB, TE, then Wr.

Who we draft at safety will team with whitner, but I don't expect Whitner back for 2014, it'll be whoever we draft, culliver, dahl, trenton. Thomas maybe developes.
CB, whoever we draft will be paired with brock plus whoever we can resign of NA, Carlos, or maybe tag brown.
DL, to rotate with McD and Justin, but also to play if we can't make a deal with the cowboy.
TE-need not b explained.
Wr-develope, so that we will have crab, jenkins, and drafted prospect, for 2014 season, although I expect us to be able to sign boldin for two more years for a reasonable rate for two more years if he works out. Who knows Lockette might work out long term.
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by Rascal:
No, I don't agree with Greg Roman. That was also a dumb move on his part to throw the ball 3 times in a row when we should have pounded it in. But, even if you discount that play, what was up with all the slow starts ? All the 3 and outs in the first half is becoming a trend.
The Raven's said after the SB that they were going to make Kaep AND the niners beat them with the pass and if go back and look at the last series, they were playing the run-read option included. Besides the holding, they screwed when they had Kaep roll right, cutting his and the niners options in half. I do agre about the slow start on the O, but the D as well. If the D played stout in the begining, then perhaps the O would get the ball more often and in sync sooner.
As for playing time, the TE will be fine as you said. As for the WR, that will have to depend on the guy himself. If he is a fast learner, there is no rule in the book that in the beginin that says every WR will have such a huge issue in understanding the offense and playbook like AJJ. Honestly, I believe we will try to play AJ, but at the same time very soon we will discover the guy just doesn't have it. Like you, I also believe Ricardo will give it a run, but that's OK to me cos we don't even know whether Mario can play. Also, don't totally discount injuries, noone expected we would lose 2 wideouts and 1 RB last year. Plus, if we get a legit deep threat wideout, the guy is not going to compete for rotation for the slot. He will have a much more unique role in going deep. The key is to pick a "great" WR, if the guy has the talent, it will show up during mini camp and training camp. Honestly, if QBs (which is a even more technical position) can play right out of the box, I believe a true WR talent can to.
You keep say great wide receiver, but how will he get reps to be great with Bolden and Crabtree not to mention VD in front of him for opps at the ball, not to mention the running backs and the fact the 2nd TE will get 50% of the snaps. Jerry Rice played full time and only got 50+ balls, and that was with an established team that clark and a good TE. You don't find great wr at our draft position (when I say great I mean HOF).


Trust me, if the kid is good, he will definitely get reps. Anyway, it doesn't matter, like I said in all likelihood Baalke will draft heavy on the D. This is only my personal point of view, thinking out of the box and trying get us a Super Bowl. If you think by loading up the D will get it done, then be it. Afterall, I can't control what Baalke and Harbaugh will pick anyway. Either way I am intrigued to find out what will they do. If they are bold enough to go with my approach I would be highly impressed cos it takes guts and commitment.
I think Baalke has shown his hand now with the free agency signings I can now see us just going for BPA. I think Baalke is a bit annoyed at having to go for AJ and him not contributing whatsoever because we needed WR help. No matter if everyone says well he'll develop this year, we were in the SuperBowl last year and could have done with a fast contributing receiver. Missed opportunity IMO

La Mike was a full on BPA pick, we already had Gore, Hunter Dixon and Jacobs and he ended up contributing and looks like he'll be a solid player for us.

BPA is where it is at, whether its Manti Teo at Inside Linebacker, Keenan Allen at Wide receiver, Jarvis Jones/Khaseem Green at Outside linebacker or Jonathan Hankins at NT. we have no idea how the season and injuries will pan out. I think Baalke is ready to start Trent Robinson and Ian Williams and if not he'll go get A FA after the draft.

I think if there's a couple guys ranked the same we'll go with needs but only then. And if we don't really rank anyone at our pick then we'll trade back or for next year.
Originally posted by smithc28:
I think Baalke has shown his hand now with the free agency signings I can now see us just going for BPA. I think Baalke is a bit annoyed at having to go for AJ and him not contributing whatsoever because we needed WR help. No matter if everyone says well he'll develop this year, we were in the SuperBowl last year and could have done with a fast contributing receiver. Missed opportunity IMO

La Mike was a full on BPA pick, we already had Gore, Hunter Dixon and Jacobs and he ended up contributing and looks like he'll be a solid player for us.

BPA is where it is at, whether its Manti Teo at Inside Linebacker, Keenan Allen at Wide receiver, Jarvis Jones/Khaseem Green at Outside linebacker or Jonathan Hankins at NT. we have no idea how the season and injuries will pan out. I think Baalke is ready to start Trent Robinson and Ian Williams and if not he'll go get A FA after the draft.

I think if there's a couple guys ranked the same we'll go with needs but only then. And if we don't really rank anyone at our pick then we'll trade back or for next year.
I went back and re read your original post and have to congradulate you on some original thinking. Instead of looking at all the draft eligible guys who might be available, then picking the ones you think might be there when the Niners pick, you tried to think things out from Baalke's perspective.

Of course, no one knows what he's thinking, what the Niners are gonna do, or who they're gonna pick. It seems like it isn't until after the pick is made (or the FA is signed) that the reasoning becomes apparent.

One thing seems clear, though--whatever Baalke does, he does it after considerable thought and research, and with far more information that we fans may possess.

Although we fans get criticized by some for paying alot of attention to the Niner's picks and "anointing" them as stars as soon as they become Niners, my own interest is in learning more about the picks after Baalke names them, so that I can figure out what Baalke was thinking about in order to make the team better and stronger.

Your original post seems to take the same perspective, only it was done before the draft instead of after it. Good stuff and interesting read.
[ Edited by oldninerdude on Apr 18, 2013 at 9:23 AM ]
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
I went back and re read your original post and have to congradulate you on some original thinking. Instead of looking at all the draft eligible guys who might be available, then picking the ones you think might be there when the Niners pick, you tried to think things out from Baalke's perspective.

Of course, no one knows what he's thinking, what the Niners are gonna do, or who they're gonna pick. It seems like it isn't until after the pick is made (or the FA is signed) that the reasoning becomes apparent.

One thing seems clear, though--whatever Baalke does, he does it after considerable thought and research, and with far more information that we fans may possess.

Although we fans get criticized by some for paying alot of attention to the Niner's picks and "anointing" them as stars as soon as they become Niners, my own interest is in learning more about the picks after Baalke names them, so that I can figure out what Baalke was thinking about in order to make the team better and stronger.

Your original post seems to take the same perspective, only it was done before the draft instead of after it. Good stuff and interesting read.

Thanks much appreciated. Wait till you see my next mock they'll be uproar
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