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Evolve don't Revolve

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
Originally posted by buck:
Assertions are not facts.

I am not sure if statistics are really facts, either, but here are some interesting stats that seem to indicate that defense might really win Championships. .

If you look at the stats for last years play-offs, SF was:
1. #1 in total offense
2. #1 in rushing offense
3. # 1 in points scored per game


The Ravens were tied for 2nd second best in scoring defense; in points given up per game.

SF was the second worst in points given up per game.

This. This is the inconvenient truth that people want to ignore.


Not at all. What those stats tell you are yes our O might be pretty good, what it doesn't tell you unfortunately is while it is good, it wasn't quite good enough to get us over the hump. I have said it all along, we are not missing much, just a couple of weapons that's all we need.

As for Raven's being tied 2nd in scoring D, I don't care about that. The point being is you are 7 yards away from winning the Super Bowl, you are supposed to be quite good in offense (as your stats suggested), but heck with 4 goes you couldn't get it in. That tells me, we are just not there yet. Everybody knew Kaep was going to Crab, we were just too predictable. We need more options.
Originally posted by Rascal:
Not at all. What those stats tell you are yes our O might be pretty good, what it doesn't tell you unfortunately is while it is good, it wasn't quite good enough to get us over the hump. I have said it all along, we are not missing much, just a couple of weapons that's all we need.

As for Raven's being tied 2nd in scoring D, I don't care about that. The point being is you are 7 yards away from winning the Super Bowl, you are supposed to be quite good in offense (as your stats suggested), but heck with 4 goes you couldn't get it in. That tells me, we are just not there yet. Everybody knew Kaep was going to Crab, we were just too predictable. We need more options.
any team can get stuffed from inside the 10. The O will be just fine next year but the D will regress without an injection of youthful quality.

Maybe we get 1 offensive pick in the first 4, any more and I'll be amazed.
Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
Originally posted by buck:
Assertions are not facts.

I am not sure if statistics are really facts, either, but here are some interesting stats that seem to indicate that defense might really win Championships. .

If you look at the stats for last years play-offs, SF was:
1. #1 in total offense
2. #1 in rushing offense
3. # 1 in points scored per game


The Ravens were tied for 2nd second best in scoring defense; in points given up per game.

SF was the second worst in points given up per game.

This. This is the inconvenient truth that people want to ignore.


Not at all. What those stats tell you are yes our O might be pretty good, what it doesn't tell you unfortunately is while it is good, it wasn't quite good enough to get us over the hump. I have said it all along, we are not missing much, just a couple of weapons that's all we need.

As for Raven's being tied 2nd in scoring D, I don't care about that. The point being is you are 7 yards away from winning the Super Bowl, you are supposed to be quite good in offense (as your stats suggested), but heck with 4 goes you couldn't get it in. That tells me, we are just not there yet. Everybody knew Kaep was going to Crab, we were just too predictable. We need more options.

I think Kaep going to Crab repeatedly had nothing to do with the quality of our personnel. It was play calling and/or decision making.
Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:
I think Kaep going to Crab repeatedly had nothing to do with the quality of our personnel. It was play calling and/or decision making.


No doubt that played into it. But, my point is if we had more viable options, it might have got us over the hump.
Rascal...looks like you agree on HaRoman and let's not forget CK either. We had a TD on the QB roll-left but Harbaugh called a TO instead. That would have been the second running play. Then CK checked out to Crabtree. On more than one occasion, Walker and VD were wide open. So it was a major team fail which is what we did all last year...rarely did one unit overshadow the other. It was either a team win or a major team loss. That's the sign of a young team too.

What do you think about playing time of draft picks that can help us this year (and the future) to get us over the top?
FS and/or SS: Could start and play every snap from day 1
NT: Would play 50% of the snaps or more if effective in a 4-man DL in our coverage packages
TE: Would play 50% of the snaps and more if he adds to the WR formations and blocks effectively
WR: AJ didn't see the field all of last year and would a top draft pick really start over Boldin/Crabtree or even AJ/Manningham/Williams in the slot this year? Sounds like Lockette is making a run at a spot as well.
  • buck
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Originally posted by Rascal:
Not at all. What those stats tell you are yes our O might be pretty good, what it doesn't tell you unfortunately is while it is good, it wasn't quite good enough to get us over the hump. I have said it all along, we are not missing much, just a couple of weapons that's all we need.

As for Raven's being tied 2nd in scoring D, I don't care about that. The point being is you are 7 yards away from winning the Super Bowl, you are supposed to be quite good in offense (as your stats suggested), but heck with 4 goes you couldn't get it in. That tells me, we are just not there yet. Everybody knew Kaep was going to Crab, we were just too predictable. We need more options.

I agree we need more options on offense.

You do not care about the Raven's having the #2 defense in the play-offs.

Come on man, it seems that you are just cherry picking the stats that support your "facts."

The Raven's defense was the second best in the play-offs; their offense was also the second best.

The 49ers were the top offensive team. The 49ers were the 2nd worse defense.

If it were a fact, as you claim, that offenses win championships, how did we lose the game.

You may not care about the Raven's defense, but that defense did have something to do with our not getting in.
Their #2 defense did stop our #1 offense on four plays inside the ten.
But, you ignore that defense and place the onus solely on the failure of our offense.

You could also argue that defenses, not only win championships, but they can also lose them.
If our defense had not let the Raven's dominate the first half, we would have won the game.

Special teams can not be excluded. If we had not given that kick return......if the Raven's had not been able to use so much of clock on the safety......

But, hey whatever.

The major point in this interchange is on the validity of your assertion.

There are stats that support your assertion, but those are not the only valid stats.
[ Edited by buck on Apr 16, 2013 at 8:27 AM ]
I will be very upset if we take WR/TE or TE/WR with #31 and #34. There is only so many balls to go around. Realistically a rookie WR wont have much impact anyway and where does that put Jenkins?. I would be OK with TE (Notre Dame) as he will provide match up problems for opponents, allow for multiple looks, and replaces Walker. A defensive pick would have to be taken next though (DL or S).

You can never have too many pass rushers, corner backs etc. There is no excuse this year if Justin Smith goes down, to not have a nice rotation of fresh players to fill his spot to attack the QB on each and every play. I dont want to see teams march the field anymore late in games due to fatigue.
Originally posted by Canadian9erfan:
I will be very upset if we take WR/TE or TE/WR with #31 and #34. There is only so many balls to go around. Realistically a rookie WR wont have much impact anyway and where does that put Jenkins?. I would be OK with TE (Notre Dame) as he will provide match up problems for opponents, allow for multiple looks, and replaces Walker. A defensive pick would have to be taken next though (DL or S).

You can never have too many pass rushers, corner backs etc. There is no excuse this year if Justin Smith goes down, to not have a nice rotation of fresh players to fill his spot to attack the QB on each and every play. I dont want to see teams march the field anymore late in games due to fatigue.

Agreed! FS, DE or NT, TE in the first 3 picks IMHO...where the talent dictates the best picks.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Rascal...looks like you agree on HaRoman and let's not forget CK either. We had a TD on the QB roll-left but Harbaugh called a TO instead. That would have been the second running play. Then CK checked out to Crabtree. On more than one occasion, Walker and VD were wide open. So it was a major team fail which is what we did all last year...rarely did one unit overshadow the other. It was either a team win or a major team loss. That's the sign of a young team too.

What do you think about playing time of draft picks that can help us this year (and the future) to get us over the top?
FS and/or SS: Could start and play every snap from day 1
NT: Would play 50% of the snaps or more if effective in a 4-man DL in our coverage packages
TE: Would play 50% of the snaps and more if he adds to the WR formations and blocks effectively
WR: AJ didn't see the field all of last year and would a top draft pick really start over Boldin/Crabtree or even AJ/Manningham/Williams in the slot this year? Sounds like Lockette is making a run at a spot as well.


No, I don't agree with Greg Roman. That was also a dumb move on his part to throw the ball 3 times in a row when we should have pounded it in. But, even if you discount that play, what was up with all the slow starts ? All the 3 and outs in the first half is becoming a trend.

As for playing time, the TE will be fine as you said. As for the WR, that will have to depend on the guy himself. If he is a fast learner, there is no rule in the book that says every WR will have such a huge issue in understanding the offense and playbook like AJJ. Honestly, I believe we will try to play AJ, but at the same time very soon we will discover the guy just doesn't have it. Like you, I also believe Ricardo will give it a run, but that's OK to me cos we don't even know whether Mario can play. Also, don't totally discount injuries, noone expected we would lose 2 wideouts and 1 RB last year. Plus, if we get a legit deep threat wideout, the guy is not going to compete for rotation for the slot. He will have a much more unique role in going deep. The key is to pick a "great" WR, if the guy has the talent, it will show up during mini camp and training camp. Honestly, if QBs (which is a even more technical position) can play right out of the box, I believe a true WR talent can too.
Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Rascal...looks like you agree on HaRoman and let's not forget CK either. We had a TD on the QB roll-left but Harbaugh called a TO instead. That would have been the second running play. Then CK checked out to Crabtree. On more than one occasion, Walker and VD were wide open. So it was a major team fail which is what we did all last year...rarely did one unit overshadow the other. It was either a team win or a major team loss. That's the sign of a young team too.

What do you think about playing time of draft picks that can help us this year (and the future) to get us over the top?
FS and/or SS: Could start and play every snap from day 1
NT: Would play 50% of the snaps or more if effective in a 4-man DL in our coverage packages
TE: Would play 50% of the snaps and more if he adds to the WR formations and blocks effectively
WR: AJ didn't see the field all of last year and would a top draft pick really start over Boldin/Crabtree or even AJ/Manningham/Williams in the slot this year? Sounds like Lockette is making a run at a spot as well.


No, I don't agree with Greg Roman. That was also a dumb move on his part to throw the ball 3 times in a row when we should have pounded it in. But, even if you discount that play, what was up with all the slow starts ? All the 3 and outs in the first half is becoming a trend.

As for playing time, the TE will be fine as you said. As for the WR, that will have to depend on the guy himself. If he is a fast learner, there is no rule in the book that says every WR will have such a huge issue in understanding the offense and playbook like AJJ. Honestly, I believe we will try to play AJ, but at the same time very soon we will discover the guy just doesn't have it. Like you, I also believe Ricardo will give it a run, but that's OK to me cos we don't even know whether Mario can play. Also, don't totally discount injuries, noone expected we would lose 2 wideouts and 1 RB last year. Plus, if we get a legit deep threat wideout, the guy is not going to compete for rotation for the slot. He will have a much more unique role in going deep. The key is to pick a "great" WR, if the guy has the talent, it will show up during mini camp and training camp. Honestly, if QBs (which is a even more technical position) can play right out of the box, I believe a true WR talent can too.

Yeah, Roman is all or nothing, no doubt. He's obviously still learning as well.

I like your points and can understand why you're leaning in this direction. It's almost time...finally! This draft will be huge for us!
Originally posted by NCommand:
Yeah, Roman is all or nothing, no doubt. He's obviously still learning as well.

I like your points and can understand why you're leaning in this direction. It's almost time...finally! This draft will be huge for us!

LOL. Yea, I think most of us have already said what we needed to say over and over. Different folks will have different opinions. I think is time to get it on !! Let's get it over and done with !! LOL.

But, you are right, this draft is going to be absolutely huge for us. We are not going to have that many picks come next year. Also, a lot of teams have improved during this offseason, if we don't get it right, we could end up getting smoked by a few of them. Seahawks are going to be very, very tough in my opinion and can you imagine having to play the Rams with Cordarrelle Patterson or Tavon Austin twice a year ?!
Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Yeah, Roman is all or nothing, no doubt. He's obviously still learning as well.

I like your points and can understand why you're leaning in this direction. It's almost time...finally! This draft will be huge for us!

LOL. Yea, I think most of us have already said what we needed to say over and over. Different folks will have different opinions. I think is time to get it on !! Let's get it over and done with !! LOL.

But, you are right, this draft is going to be absolutely huge for us. We are not going to have that many picks come next year. Also, a lot of teams have improved during this offseason, if we don't get it right, we could end up getting smoked by a few of them. Seahawks are going to be very, very tough in my opinion and can you imagine having to play the Rams with Cordarrelle Patterson or Tavon Austin twice a year ?!

Not to mention the Cardinals, who could easily, and probably will, surprise with their addition of a competent QB and very good/great skill position players.

This could prove an advantage for the Niners though, as the team's obvious rival, Seattle, cannot devote all of their energies to focusing on the Niners. IMO, and despite what a lot of "pundits" are proclaiming, the Niners still have the best overall roster in the division and will prevail in the end.

The Niners also have the potential (with a superior drafting position) to further sperate themselves from the 'Hawks. The Rams, of course are in the best postion draftwise, but IMO will still be a step behind the Niners, whetever they do, because of their inferior QB. Even though the Rams collected a motherlode of picks with their trade last year, I'm still delighted that they elected not to draft RGIII. Would have been tough going against both Griffin and Wilson twice a year each!
Originally posted by Rsrkshn:
Not to mention the Cardinals, who could easily, and probably will, surprise with their addition of a competent QB and very good/great skill position players.

This could prove an advantage for the Niners though, as the team's obvious rival, Seattle, cannot devote all of their energies to focusing on the Niners. IMO, and despite what a lot of "pundits" are proclaiming, the Niners still have the best overall roster in the division and will prevail in the end.

The Niners also have the potential (with a superior drafting position) to further sperate themselves from the 'Hawks. The Rams, of course are in the best postion draftwise, but IMO will still be a step behind the Niners, whetever they do, because of their inferior QB. Even though the Rams collected a motherlode of picks with their trade last year, I'm still delighted that they elected not to draft RGIII. Would have been tough going against both Griffin and Wilson twice a year each!


I am not saying anything until I know who we are going to draft. Is going to be a heck of a tough season. Just think about that list for a moment, Seahawks, Rams and as you said even the Cards will be much improved. And yes we will be playing RG3 although not twice, the Falcons with Steven Jackson, Packers, Texans and Saints.
Interesting quotes from Baalke from the home page articles.

"The teams that have been successful are drafting for need a year or two ahead of time," Baalke explained. ~ This could allude to drafting WR & CB's high.

"I wouldn't say we went out way to look for a corner that's 6-(foot)-1, 6-2," Baalke said. "It's a situation where stars aligned." ~ More proof (and all through FA) Baalke wants to get bigger, more physical at the CB position. OND and others have alluded to perhaps, Culliver and Nnamdi as the starting CB's with Brown/Rogers in the slot. I noted that against taller TE's, you could even match Nnamdi up on these guys in the RZ/EZ and move Brown/Rogers outside.

Glenn Dorsey was the first player the 49ers signed in free agency last month, and his "versatility" along the defensive line is what Baalke praised most. ~ Is this evidence we'll be looking for smaller DT's who can play both positions rather than a prototypical NT or 3-4 DE (e.g. Carradine @ 276)?

Charles Woodson, one of the first free agents the 49ers hosted, remains both unsigned and on the 49ers' radar. "We feel he can still play game. We'll continue to look at that and see how the draft goes. Charles is certainly somebody we're still interested in." ~ I have been saying all along, I would not be surprised if we signed him but that they may be waiting to see if they get their FS. Heck, even if they DO get their FS, they may want him to learn behind Woodson.

– The 49ers have 53 local prospects working out Wednesday, including
  • Nate Montana
Four players attending the workout but not participating are:
  • Oregon's Kiko Alonso (LB)
  • Stanford's Zach Ertz (TE) ~ it's safe to say TE will be a top (priority) pick IMHO
  • Levine Toilolo (TE)
  • Chase Thomas (LB)
[ Edited by NCommand on Apr 17, 2013 at 1:46 PM ]
Originally posted by NCommand:
Interesting quotes from Baalke from the home page articles.

"The teams that have been successful are drafting for need a year or two ahead of time," Baalke explained. ~ This could allude to drafting WR & CB's high.

"I wouldn't say we went out way to look for a corner that's 6-(foot)-1, 6-2," Baalke said. "It's a situation where stars aligned." ~ More proof (and all through FA) Baalke wants to get bigger, more physical at the CB position. OND and others have alluded to perhaps, Culliver and Nnamdi as the starting CB's with Brown/Rogers in the slot. I noted that against taller TE's, you could even match Nnamdi up on these guys in the RZ/EZ and move Brown/Rogers outside.

– Glenn Dorsey was the first player the 49ers signed in free agency last month, and his "versatility" along the defensive line is what Baalke praised most. ~ Is this evidence we'll be looking for smaller DT's who can play both positions rather than a prototypical NT or 3-4 DE?

– Charles Woodson, one of the first free agents the 49ers hosted, remains both unsigned and on the 49ers' radar. "We feel he can still play game. We'll continue to look at that and see how the draft goes. Charles is certainly somebody we're still interested in." ~ I have been saying all along, I would not be surprised if we signed him but that they may be waiting to see if they get their FS. Heck, even if they DO get their FS, they may want him to learn behind Woodson.

– The 49ers have 53 local prospects working out Wednesday, including
  • Nate Montana
Four players attending the workout but not participating are:
  • Oregon's Kiko Alonso (linebacker)
  • Stanford's Zach Ertz (tight end) ~ it's safe to say TE will be a top pick IMHO
  • Chase Thomas (linebacker)
  • Levine Toilolo (tight end)


That's pretty interesting stuff indeed !! I especially like the first 2 quotes. LOL.