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Evolve don't Revolve

  • RedAu
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 67
Sorry double post
[ Edited by RedAu on Apr 13, 2013 at 11:50 AM ]
Edit

Lost post d/t server
[ Edited by NCommand on Apr 13, 2013 at 12:27 PM ]
Originally posted by RedAu:
Our offense does not run through VD, but our D's dominance depends almost entirely on the front 3. As for the "hump" we need to get over, it was self inflicted (because of the lack of high quality backups). D allowed just 16 TDs in first 13 games and 19 TDs in last 6.

We need D-Line, OLB, and FS help.

That said a TE in the 3rd would be cool.


I disagree. When you play against great teams with a great offense, no matter how stout your D is, they are going to score on you and perhaps even score on you big. This is particularly true in the playoffs. I have posted many articles on why "defense doesn't win championships" anymore and if you want I can give you the links again. Just look at the Seahawks for the moment, they have undoubtedly the best secondary in the league and they still got torched by Roddy White and Julio Jones. Oh, they also got torched by RG3 too before his knee finally gave in. However, our O couldn't get going in the 1st half with a bunch of 3 and outs if you can recall. If we had kept up the scoring before the half, minus the bad play-calling by Greg Roman and/or plus more weapons for red zone plays, yes we certainly could have won the Super Bowl. Defense wouldn't have won it for us, not when you are already down by 22 at the half. D will only get you so far, those days of defense winning championships are long gone.
Why draft a DE or FS in the 1st? Because there are only 2-3 good 3-4 DE's or FS in this draft. Look at the list of good quality WRs, TEs and CBs vs DE and FS.
What Draft looks best to you.

Type A
1.FS or DE- J.Cyprien, E.Reid, D.Jones, M.Hunt, or T.Carradine.
2a.FS or DE- J.Cyprien, E.Reid, D.Jones, M.Hunt, or T.Carradine.
2b.TE, WR or CB- G.Escobar, T.Kelce, T.Williams, D.Rogers, L.Ryan, or D.Slay.
3a. TE, WR or CB-T.Kelce, V.McDonald, D.Rogers, M.Wheaton, D.Slay, or T.Mathieu.
3b. TE, WR or CB- V.McDonald, D.Sims, M.Goodwin, S.Bailey, B. Wreh-Wilson, or W.Davis.

Type B
1.WR or TE- K.Allen, D.Hopkins,R.Woods,J.Hunter,Q.Patton or Z.Ertz.
2a. WR or TE- K.Allen, D.Hopkins,R.Woods,J.Hunter,Q.Patton or Z.Ertz.
2b. DE, CB or FS- W.Gholston, B.Logan, L.Ryan, D.Slay, P.Thomas, or D.J Swearinger.
3a. DE, CB or FS- W.Gholston, B.Logan, D.Slay, T.Mathieu, D.J Swearinger or B.Rambo.
3b. DE, CB or FS- W.Gholston, B.Logan, B. Wreh-Wilson, W.Davis, J.J Wilcox or J. Evans.
Originally posted by tatdwolf49:
..

A great offensive doesn't mean a super bowl ...we need replacements for J.Smith, T.brown,whitner (who are free agents next yr) a replacement for goldson probably a esplanade for overpaid Rogers next yr ... an in general backups that can sub in for J.Smith N other d-linemen...why is it so hard for y'all to see we need a balanced team to win


I am not suggesting not to replace them, just not with the top picks that's all. The DE is only for depth, get one in the 3rd. As for safety I understand, we can get one at 61st or may be trade up slightly higer if needed.
Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by RedAu:
Our offense does not run through VD, but our D's dominance depends almost entirely on the front 3. As for the "hump" we need to get over, it was self inflicted (because of the lack of high quality backups). D allowed just 16 TDs in first 13 games and 19 TDs in last 6.

We need D-Line, OLB, and FS help.

That said a TE in the 3rd would be cool.


I disagree. When you play against great teams with a great offense, no matter how stout your D is, they are going to score on you and perhaps even score on you big. This is particularly true in the playoffs. I have posted many articles on why "defense doesn't win championships" anymore and if you want I can give you the links again. Just look at the Seahawks for the moment, they have undoubtedly the best secondary in the league and they still got torched by Roddy White and Julio Jones. Oh, they also got torched by RG3 too before his knee finally gave in. However, our O couldn't get going in the 1st half with a bunch of 3 and outs if you can recall. If we had kept up the scoring before the half, minus the bad play-calling by Greg Roman and/or plus more weapons for red zone plays, yes we certainly could have won the Super Bowl. Defense wouldn't have won it for us, not when you are already down by 22 at the half. D will only get you so far, those days of defense winning championships are long gone.

Plus we have lost weapons on the offensive side of the ball. Manningham will not be ready by all accounts. Williams might but at how many % ? Not to mention Delanie has gone. We can't be complacent and take things for granted that Kaep is some Superman and can get it done as and when we want him to even with less weapons.
Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by RedAu:
Our offense does not run through VD, but our D's dominance depends almost entirely on the front 3. As for the "hump" we need to get over, it was self inflicted (because of the lack of high quality backups). D allowed just 16 TDs in first 13 games and 19 TDs in last 6.

We need D-Line, OLB, and FS help.

That said a TE in the 3rd would be cool.


I disagree. When you play against great teams with a great offense, no matter how stout your D is, they are going to score on you and perhaps even score on you big. This is particularly true in the playoffs. I have posted many articles on why "defense doesn't win championships" anymore and if you want I can give you the links again. Just look at the Seahawks for the moment, they have undoubtedly the best secondary in the league and they still got torched by Roddy White and Julio Jones. Oh, they also got torched by RG3 too before his knee finally gave in. However, our O couldn't get going in the 1st half with a bunch of 3 and outs if you can recall. If we had kept up the scoring before the half, minus the bad play-calling by Greg Roman and/or plus more weapons for red zone plays, yes we certainly could have won the Super Bowl. Defense wouldn't have won it for us, not when you are already down by 22 at the half. D will only get you so far, those days of defense winning championships are long gone.

Well and you look at the games vs. Green Bay and Atlanta we "outscored" the other team rather than shut down their offense. Obviously any game is won by scoring more than the opposition but we did not win the grinding, low score games a stout defense is expected to win. We won high scoring games because that is the fad in today's NFL. I have no doubt Roman will bring even more new looks to the offense this year and expect one of the top 3 picks we have to go toward a new weapon on offense. I'm just not sure what position. I wouldn't be shocked if they move for Tavon Austin but expect them to give this crop of tight ends a deep look.
Originally posted by Tman:
Originally posted by tatdwolf49:
Horrible idea we need defense N replacements ..seem like u wanna make us into tha 2000's colts all offensive no defense Hhmmm how many super bowls did that win P.Manning just 1 ...this is a rare defense heavy draft class we need to stock up get tha rookies learning N ready to take over ..

Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by tatdwolf49:
..

A great offensive doesn't mean a super bowl ...we need replacements for J.Smith, T.brown,whitner (who are free agents next yr) a replacement for goldson probably a esplanade for overpaid Rogers next yr ... an in general backups that can sub in for J.Smith N other d-linemen...why is it so hard for y'all to see we need a balanced team to win


I am not suggesting not to replace them, just not with the top picks that's all. The DE is only for depth, get one in the 3rd. As for safety I understand, we can get one at 61st or may be trade up slightly higer if needed.

After D.Jones tha rest of tha 3-4 DEs suck though ...that why at #31 or #34 should be a D-line pick either D.Jones or J.Williams
Originally posted by Rascal:
Wow, finally another like-minded 9ers fan. I have been saying all along to give priorty to the O as opposed to the D. My key rationale are 2 fold :

1) "Defense doesn't win championships" anymore
2) Our current crop of stars from the 2005-2007 draft class such as Frank, Vernon and Pat are aging now - as such as MUST WIN NOW

I am not sure about trading all the way up to get Patterson or Austin cos they would require a lot to get it done. But, I will say this, I want a top tall deep threat wideout at least at 31st and followed by a top TE at 34th. To me, they are :

  • 31st - Justin Hunter
  • 34th - Zach Ertz

Honestly, in my opinion, we are just a couple of offensive weapons to get us over the hump. Our O has got to a point in being decent, but unless we place priorty at the draft to further bolster our line-up, we are going to be worse than last season. Anquan is a huge addition and easily replaced Randy Moss. But, Manningham from all accounts doesn't seem like he will be ready for the start of the season. Then, you add on the loss of Delanie which is huge. It is imperative we need to not just fill the holes but to ensure we have legit playmakers in thoss positions.
Let's face it, when we are down by 17, who is going to get it done for us ? Simple, our O. We have got to a point of being explosive with Kaep under center, but with a couple of more weapons, it will take us over the edge.

But, hey if you can find a way to get us Cordarrelle Patterson, please do it as long as it doesn't affect our TE pick.

U want us to get hunter at #31 which is like 20 picks to high N tha dude is 6'4 195 or something like that ...AJ is 6foot 197 or something like that N people said he's small N has to bulk up so hunter has to do more bulking up before he can get on tha field ...I'm not against hunter just not at #31 or #34 maybe at #74 but I know he wont be there ...
Interesting thoughts. We will see which way Baalke and Harbaugh will go. Defense first has made this team successful the last couple of years, but the majority of the time Alex Smith was at the helm of the offense. With Kaep at QB, things may change.
[ Edited by m_brockalexander on Apr 13, 2013 at 1:40 PM ]
Originally posted by tatdwolf49:
After D.Jones tha rest of tha 3-4 DEs suck though ...that why at #31 or #34 should be a D-line pick either D.Jones or J.Williams

We can convert a DT to a DE, its been done before.

I think the biggest need is someone who requires double teams. We rush with 4 guys, J.Smith takes up two and Aldons left one on one to bring the pressure.
Originally posted by tatdwolf49:
U want us to get hunter at #31 which is like 20 picks to high N tha dude is 6'4 195 or something like that ...AJ is 6foot 197 or something like that N people said he's small N has to bulk up so hunter has to do more bulking up before he can get on tha field ...I'm not against hunter just not at #31 or #34 maybe at #74 but I know he wont be there ...


I said 31st simply because a good handful of analysts have predicted he will go in the end of 1st, if not start of 2nd. If you are telling me Justin Hunter will still be there for us to pick at 74th, I don't have a problem with it. I am only going by what the experts tell me.
screw drafting offense

we need to keep our front 7 in tact for years to come, i dont want to score 45 points a game while giving up 45 points a game
Originally posted by shaneblonien:
Well and you look at the games vs. Green Bay and Atlanta we "outscored" the other team rather than shut down their offense. Obviously any game is won by scoring more than the opposition but we did not win the grinding, low score games a stout defense is expected to win. We won high scoring games because that is the fad in today's NFL. I have no doubt Roman will bring even more new looks to the offense this year and expect one of the top 3 picks we have to go toward a new weapon on offense. I'm just not sure what position. I wouldn't be shocked if they move for Tavon Austin but expect them to give this crop of tight ends a deep look.


That is the way the game today is heading. Is not about grinding out games anymore. You are almost forced into a situation whereby you will have to win by shootouts especially with the better teams such as your Packers, Patriots and Falcons to name a few.

To your point about your prediction of 1 out of 3 top picks will go to the O, well, the question then becomes will 1 weapon be enough ? That is when we have to look at our receiving corp in totality. Aside from Crab and Anquan, Mario doesn't seem like he will be ready for the season, Kyle will be ready for camp but at what % ? That only leaves Chad, Ricardo and Marlon (who is more of a special teams guy) as far as wideouts go. Then in terms of TEs, needless to say, Delanie has gone which is a huge loss. As such, 1 weapon doesn't seem sufficient to me.

A lot of people like the idea of trading up for Austin, personally I am not. I strongly believe what we lack is a tall legit deep threat wideout. If you trade up that high, I would rather take Cordarelle Patterson, otherwise I am happy to have Justin Hunter at 31st. Plus, I also want a TE, at 34th we will most likely have to go with Zach Ertz.
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
screw drafting offense

we need to keep our front 7 in tact for years to come, i dont want to score 45 points a game while giving up 45 points a game


I don't care about how many points we give up as long we outscore our opponents and win. W is what counts !!