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John Jenkins has dropped almost 40 pounds since the season ended.

Originally posted by Wodwo:
Ask yourself this when thinking about the team investing heavily (pun intended) in the NT position:

When playing nickel defense, is there a LB or DE that I would take off the field instead of the NT?

If not, the NT isn't worth it.

Ask yourself this.....without a proper NT, is there a reason needed to add an extra cornerback in 3rd down situations?


If you can't stop teams like Seattle from running the ball on you on 1st and 2nd down, does it really matter what the hell you do on 3rd down?
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by Wodwo:
Ask yourself this when thinking about the team investing heavily (pun intended) in the NT position:

When playing nickel defense, is there a LB or DE that I would take off the field instead of the NT?

If not, the NT isn't worth it.

Ask yourself this.....without a proper NT, is there a reason needed to add an extra cornerback in 3rd down situations?


If you can't stop teams like Seattle from running the ball on you on 1st and 2nd down, does it really matter what the hell you do on 3rd down?

Truth be told though, Jenkins wasn't exactly a run-dominator at Georgia. Their defense was 12th in the SEC (out of 14 teams) in rush yards allowed per game (182.1) and 11th in average yards per rush (4.14) last year. If it wasn't for the dregs of the conference like Miss St., Tenn and Auburn, the Bulldogs would've been dead last in defensive rushing stats. So as much as I like Jenkins as a NT, he wasn't exactly a difference-maker as a senior in the area you would hope.

And though you can't put it all on one guy, your NT really is the anchor...his play sets the tone for the success/failure of your run defense.
[ Edited by GhostofFredDean74 on Apr 8, 2013 at 2:15 PM ]
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by NinerBuff:
I feel the same about him as I did about Terrance Cody, their weight fluctuates too much, even though they have significant size and athleticism. But I guess Tomsula would have his way with him.

LOL...let's be reality, Terrence Cody and "athleticism" do not belong in the same sentence. I really wish people would stop making that comparison.; Jenkins and Cody are nothing alike other than being big bodied NT's.

Terrence Cody Combine #'s-5.70 40, 22 reps on bench press, 1.90 in 10 yard dash, 22 inches on vertical jump.

John Jenkins Combine #'s-5.30 40, 30 reps on bench press, 1.80 in 10 yard dash, 34 inches on vertical jump.



Cody was an absolute stiff, a big body who simply was there to take up space, hopefully eat up blockers with the understanding that he could do little else. Jenkins is far more athletic, has much better quickness, stronger, more active and more versatile, having played both inside and outside for Georgia. The comparison between the two is a pretty lousy one. Jenkins has at least put in the work this offseason and has gotten himself NFL ready, I think his weight drop shows commitment and an understanding of what he needs to do to perform at the next level. He's dropped a ton of weight, meanwhile Cody in his offseason showed up over 370 pounds for workouts.

I didn't realize there was that much disparity between them, athletically. But it does worry me that he weighed as much as 370 lbs. But that could be speculation as well.
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I would take Jenkins now that he lost all that weight, it shows hes commited to working hard and not just being a lazy ass. But I'm still hoping Hankins falls to the back of the 1st round, I'd still pick Hankins over any DB, except maybe Dee Milliner.
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Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Ask yourself this.....without a proper NT, is there a reason needed to add an extra cornerback in 3rd down situations?


If you can't stop teams like Seattle from running the ball on you on 1st and 2nd down, does it really matter what the hell you do on 3rd down?

"Proper NT"? You'd really have to define that because I don't know what you're looking for... are you looking for the same thing Baalke and Fangio are looking for? We don't really need to discuss the different 3-4 flavors and gap control, do we? We both know all this stuff already, right?

I'm pretty sure Fangio doesn't have his NT in zero tech, except maybe in short yardage situations. Are you thinking they need a big plugging two gapper?

The run defense is fine. It was fine the year before, too.

Anyway, I wasn't asking about 3rd down, was I? I asked about nickel defense and you dodged the question with a question.

Teams line up three wide and run the ball on first and second down. Who you gonna take off the field... LB, DE, or NT?
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Truth be told though, Jenkins wasn't exactly a run-dominator at Georgia. Their defense was 12th in the SEC (out of 14 teams) in rush yards allowed per game (182.1) and 11th in average yards per rush (4.14) last year. If it wasn't for the dregs of the conference like Miss St., Tenn and Auburn, the Bulldogs would've been dead last in defensive rushing stats. So as much as I like Jenkins as a NT, he wasn't exactly a difference-maker as a senior in the area you would hope.

And though you can't put it all on one guy, your NT really is the anchor...his play sets the tone for the success/failure of your run defense.


Anyway to see what that standing would be for between the tackle runs?
Originally posted by eonblue:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Well, the beauty of the new CBA is that rookies don't get outrageous contracts. If he really wants the big one he will have to prove it.

Idk thought. He has already showed a lack of dedication. He was "barely" eligible to start the year and he basically flunked his last semester and couldn't play in his bowl game. So far discipline and self preservation are lacking but man when he breachs the middle faster than a end can turn the corners I get a chubby.

Why are we not talking about Hankins more?
Jenkins is bigger and better thats why
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Truth be told though, Jenkins wasn't exactly a run-dominator at Georgia. Their defense was 12th in the SEC (out of 14 teams) in rush yards allowed per game (182.1) and 11th in average yards per rush (4.14) last year. If it wasn't for the dregs of the conference like Miss St., Tenn and Auburn, the Bulldogs would've been dead last in defensive rushing stats. So as much as I like Jenkins as a NT, he wasn't exactly a difference-maker as a senior in the area you would hope.

And though you can't put it all on one guy, your NT really is the anchor...his play sets the tone for the success/failure of your run defense.


Anyway to see what that standing would be for between the tackle runs?

I don't know of anyone who breaks down college stats that way. This is the best I can find in terms of breaking down rush defense stats:

http://www.cfbstats.com/2011/team/257/rushing/defense/situational.html
Originally posted by kush:
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Originally posted by kush:
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Originally posted by JustinNiner:
sounds like this guy has weight issues. When people lose that much weight it is incredibly easy for them to gain it back so it is a risky pick with any 1st or 2nd. If we don't have DT by the 3rd round I would pull the trigger tho but If I was harbaugh I would make sure that this guy is motivated and has good work ethic

In the NFL he will have all the diet specialists and trainers he needs to stay fit. wont be an issue.

Not an issue? This guy has had a pretty good idea for the last 2 years that he has a chance to play in the NFL. He has been playing at a top-flight SEC school where I'm sure he has state of the art equipment and resources to stay healthy.

He has had the license as well as plenty of motivation to slim down years ago. The fact that he is only now getting in shape is concerning to me. I would much rather draft a guy like John Hankins (who began his OSU career at 380 lbs.) or Sylvester Williams (was nearly 400 lbs. in H.S.) who comitted to getting in shape a long time ago than a guy who drops a bunch of weight at the last minute because he sees the light (and $) at the end of the tunnel.

His college play did not suffer from his weight. This is not a fat and lazy player. He is loseing wieght now because his trainers and his representitives are all telling him to do so. He will not play at his current weight, but he is showing that he can indeed slim down if thats what a team desires of him.

I had him ranked as a first round pick early in the off season and had us takig him in the first in my first and second mock i beleive. People were hating on him then for games he didnt even play in. Now they are hating on him because of him working hard and loseing weight. I dont know what it is about him, but people seem to just want to hate him. I think he is gonna be a good NT in the nfl.

You really think carrying 50+ lbs. of fat didn't affect his play in college? Come on man, this isnt a conspiracy and it ain't rocket science.

Just because you say it, doesnt make it so. If he wasnt productive enough in college, we would not be talking about him. Like i said, going into the offseason he was ranked the second or third best NT prospect in the country by alot of People that do such for a living. He was plenty productive in college, and him loseing weight is a good thing. I dont see how people can even logicly try to spin it as some sort of negative outlook on his work ethic.
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Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Just because you say it, doesnt make it so. If he wasnt productive enough in college, we would not be talking about him. Like i said, going into the offseason he was ranked the second or third best NT prospect in the country by alot of People that do such for a living. He was plenty productive in college, and him loseing weight is a good thing. I dont see how people can even logicly try to spin it as some sort of negative outlook on his work ethic.
Losing weight is better than not losing the weight. No arguments on that count. Still can't wrap my head around you thinking he would not have played better at 330 lbs. as opposed to 380.
Originally posted by kush:
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Just because you say it, doesnt make it so. If he wasnt productive enough in college, we would not be talking about him. Like i said, going into the offseason he was ranked the second or third best NT prospect in the country by alot of People that do such for a living. He was plenty productive in college, and him loseing weight is a good thing. I dont see how people can even logicly try to spin it as some sort of negative outlook on his work ethic.
Losing weight is better than not losing the weight. No arguments on that count. Still can't wrap my head around you thinking he would not have played better at 330 lbs. as opposed to 380.
When was he ever 380? I have never heard or seen anywhere where he was ever listed at 380. To my knowlege, the heaviest he has ever been stated to be was 370, and that was himself that stated such.

You are useing nonsense to prove to yourself that his weight will be an issue in the NFL...My statement was that it wont be an issue and you went on a tangent to explain why it will be an issue.

He struggled with grades and school his senior year. He really wanted to come out of school last season and instead stuck it out one more year. He is an athlete not a scholor, and im sure that played a role in his weight. We also dont know what weight his coaches wanted him to be playing at, or if they encouraged him to lose weight.

You say you would rather have Hankins or williams, Neither of which are as promising, and neither of which have the upside of Jenkins at NT. Its funny to me that you dwell on Jenkins downsides but fail to address some of the issues surrounding Hankins and Williams.

Like i said, now all he has to do is play football, and he will have all the help he needs to keep his dit and weight in check.

Fact of the matter is, for most of last season and the start of this off season Jenkins was seen pretty much as the concensus #2 NT in the draft. He played well against olineman like Warmack. Had a great scenior bowl, and has had a great off season all together. People have been trying to hate this guy around here since very early in the offseason. Alot of people were and still are bitter about the bowl game, and some people even stated and argued with me he was "non existant" thinking he actually played in that game. Well he was "non eistant" because he didnt play.

I would be perfectly happy if this guy ends up in a niners uniform.
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Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Originally posted by kush:
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Just because you say it, doesnt make it so. If he wasnt productive enough in college, we would not be talking about him. Like i said, going into the offseason he was ranked the second or third best NT prospect in the country by alot of People that do such for a living. He was plenty productive in college, and him loseing weight is a good thing. I dont see how people can even logicly try to spin it as some sort of negative outlook on his work ethic.
Losing weight is better than not losing the weight. No arguments on that count. Still can't wrap my head around you thinking he would not have played better at 330 lbs. as opposed to 380.
When was he ever 380? I have never heard or seen anywhere where he was ever listed at 380. To my knowlege, the heaviest he has ever been stated to be was 370, and that was himself that stated such.
You're right, he was only 370. Forgive me. 370 is still pretty big though, lol, and not too far off from 380. This isn't like ppl who said Alshon Jeffery was 288 lbs. last offseason when he was in fact only 200.

You are useing nonsense to prove to yourself that his weight will be an issue in the NFL...My statement was that it wont be an issue and you went on a tangent to explain why it will be an issue.

Nonsense? Did I make some bold prediction about John Jenkins and forget about it? All I said was waiting until the last minute to shed his excess fat is a red flag. I can't be certain it'll be an issue and maybe it won't.

He struggled with grades and school his senior year. He really wanted to come out of school last season and instead stuck it out one more year. He is an athlete not a scholor, and im sure that played a role in his weight. We also dont know what weight his coaches wanted him to be playing at, or if they encouraged him to lose weight.
This seems really naive. What overweight future professional athlete doesn't realize he should be in better shape? Such a simple concept. jesus crimety.

You say you would rather have Hankins or williams, Neither of which are as promising, and neither of which have the upside of Jenkins at NT. Its funny to me that you dwell on Jenkins downsides but fail to address some of the issues surrounding Hankins and Williams.
Neither of which is as promising? In what regard? I believe both have better tape and It's not even close imo.

Sly Williams makes play, disrupts and never leaves the field. He gets a bad wrap for "not always giving full effort". Watch his tapes. He is the only defensive lineman who does not rotate in and out. Sly does gets downgraded on my board because he already turned 24 but Jenkins turns 24 in June so he gets downgraded as well.

Hankins is only 20 or 21 and has 3 years of DI tape to his name. Good tape too. Watch him versus California and Michigan State. He gets doubled more than any other play I scouted this year and he handles those double teams well. He's a really interesting prospect because on one play he'll blow up a double and shoot into the backfield for a stop, looking as smooth and as athletic as ever. The next play he'll look off balanced like he's on roller skates.

Jenkins obviously has a huge upside. His arms are an inch longer than Hankins or Sly. He's got better raw athleticism. I just haven't seen him put his immense tools to use on tape. For such a big NT, I never see him imposing his will or riding Guards into the backfield. I watched a few games of his (youtube vs. videos) and was never impressed. I have him as a late 2nd-early 3rd because I purely see him as a 2 down NT. I'll check out the Alabama game again. Any other good games you'd like to recommend?

Like i said, now all he has to do is play football, and he will have all the help he needs to keep his dit and weight in check.

Fact of the matter is, for most of last season and the start of this off season Jenkins was seen pretty much as the concensus #2 NT in the draft. He played well against olineman like Warmack. Had a great scenior bowl, and has had a great off season all together. People have been trying to hate this guy around here since very early in the offseason. Alot of people were and still are bitter about the bowl game, and some people even stated and argued with me he was "non existant" thinking he actually played in that game. Well he was "non eistant" because he didnt play.
Consensus #2 NT? I haven't seen him regarded as the #2 NT anywhere but here in this post lol.

I would be perfectly happy if this guy ends up in a niners uniform.

Brandon Williams > John Jenkins IMO

Reason I like BW is because he can rotate to other positions on the DL. He reminds me of BJ Raji.
Originally posted by kush:

Walter football still has him ranked as their #2 NT prospect, where he has been listed all off season. I beleive CBS once had him ranked as their #2 at the start of the offseason. Actually at the start of the offseason, he was in fact, largely the #2 NT prospect in the country. You may have only seen me say it, but i have been following prospect ranking all offseason, from the very begining.

As far as the weight goes, i would say an overweight NT, who was still plenty athletic, is a bit differant than an over weight player in a skill position like WR.
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Originally posted by kush:

Walter football still has him ranked as their #2 NT prospect, where he has been listed all off season. I beleive CBS once had him ranked as their #2 at the start of the offseason. Actually at the start of the offseason, he was in fact, largely the #2 NT prospect in the country. You may have only seen me say it, but i have been following prospect ranking all offseason, from the very begining.

As far as the weight goes, i would say an overweight NT, who was still plenty athletic, is a bit differant than an over weight player in a skill position like WR.

Very athletic for a big man, but my big concern about Jenkins is that he doesn't play with great leverage. Maybe it's the weight or just bad technique, but he gets easily pushed around and upended more than a big guy like that should, especially when playing the run. He actually seems more effective rushing the passer either over the nose or in a 5-technique than he does holding the point (either against a double-team or even just 1-on-1). The potential is definitely there and in time I could see him being a monster 3-4 interior player under the coaching of Tomsula...but right now, he's going to need a lot of work on and off the field.