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Mayo's Niners Top 3 picks

  • mayo49
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 20,052
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Originally posted by mayo49:
Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by mayo49:
Originally posted by Rascal:
I see a lot of trading up, but if we do trade up, I want a top WR. Still, I am sure Patterson will be out of reach, but I will settle with Justin Hunter.

Then, I am going with a top TE in the 2nd, Zach Ertz shoud be within reach.

By then, Eric Reid will be long gone, I am hoping David Amerson will still be possible (and don't get too hung up about CB Vs Safety, we can always work that out later)

Most might think this is rather extreme. Well, it is and I have my reason. This is my rationale, I strongly believe we must "win now", we have missed out this year's opportunity, to me there is no more time to waste as our key stars between the 2005-2007 draft class are aging now, namely Frank, Vernon and Pat. Sometimes, if the goal is so single-minded with such an extreme time frame, the moves we make might just need to be that much more tactical as opposed to being more strategic with a longer-term view. With that being the premise, I am going all out on the offensive side of the ball. The old adage of defense wins championships is passe in my opinion, besides our D is pretty decent anyway. When you play great teams with a top high-powered offense, no matter how stout your D is they are still going to score on you and may be even score on you big, so you need an offense that can outscore such opponents. Ever since Kaep took over, our offense has literally transformed to the point of being explosive and has even carried our D in numerous games. We just lack a couple of playmakers and it will definitely get us over that hump. Anquan will give us that toughness and clutchness in the passing game. But, we need a legit tall and physical deep threat wideout who can capitalize on Kaep's arm. Also, we have lost Delanie and Zach Ertz is bigger with far better hands and can contribute big in the passing game as well. By all means fix our secondary, that is why I put down David Amerson, other needs can come from lower rounds such as D-line.


You don't want Patterson, too short. The better plan is to stay put and take say a DaRick Rogers in the 3rd.


Patterson is too short ? The guy is 6'3" !! But, to get him, you won't stand a chance unless you trade all the way to 10th in the 1st. Failing that, I will go for Justin Hunter who is even taller at 6'4". I have looked at Da'Rick Rogers' tapes, is pretty good, but I prefer Justin Hunter's.


Wow, I thought he was around 5'10", my fault.

Patton is short, quick and refined

Patterson is a HWS freak who is a monster after the catch, but he is raw and he catches with his body.

IF we were to trade up for a WR, I would want Austin, as he is a unique talent in this draft (still not convinced that LMJ can't do most of what Austin does, even though he doesn't have that crazy speed)

I'd happily go:

Eifert
Reid
Hunt

or

D. Jones
Ertz
D. Rodgers
... Amerson/Wilcox/Williams

or

D. Jones
Reid
Escobar


I'll go with your D. Jones, Reid, Escobar combination. It hit's on all of our needs.
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Patton is short, quick and refined

Patterson is a HWS freak who is a monster after the catch, but he is raw and he catches with his body.

IF we were to trade up for a WR, I would want Austin, as he is a unique talent in this draft (still not convinced that LMJ can't do most of what Austin does, even though he doesn't have that crazy speed)

I'd happily go:

Eifert
Reid
Hunt

or

D. Jones
Ertz
D. Rodgers
... Amerson/Wilcox/Williams

or

D. Jones
Reid
Escobar


I can't go with Austin, at least not in the context of going up against the huge Seahawks' DBs such as Browner at 6'4" 221 lbs and Kam Chancellor at 6'3" 232 lbs. Chancellor already gave Vernon a concussion, imagine what would they do to a 5'8" 174 lbs guy ?! They will totally crush him. For a deep threat receiver, I will always go with the tall and physical type.
Originally posted by Rascal:
I can't go with Austin, at least not in the context of going up against the huge Seahawks' DBs such as Browner at 6'4" 221 lbs and Kam Chancellor at 6'3" 232 lbs. Chancellor already gave Vernon a concussion, imagine what would they do to a 5'8" 174 lbs guy ?! They will totally crush him. For a deep threat receiver, I will always go with the tall and physical type.

In regards to the Seattle CBs, I would argue that you can't hit what you can't catch. Those guys succeed with physicality, not quickness and agility, send him in motion, and they shouldn't get a hand on him. I don't see Chancellor making that hit on Austin. I see him gesturing frantically from 10-15 yards away.
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Originally posted by Rascal:
I can't go with Austin, at least not in the context of going up against the huge Seahawks' DBs such as Browner at 6'4" 221 lbs and Kam Chancellor at 6'3" 232 lbs. Chancellor already gave Vernon a concussion, imagine what would they do to a 5'8" 174 lbs guy ?! They will totally crush him. For a deep threat receiver, I will always go with the tall and physical type.

In regards to the Seattle CBs, I would argue that you can't hit what you can't catch. Those guys succeed with physicality, not quickness and agility, send him in motion, and they shouldn't get a hand on him. I don't see Chancellor making that hit on Austin. I see him gesturing frantically from 10-15 yards away.


If you remember that hit, it was a high ball from Kaep right on the sideline. Vernon was a defenseless receiver, he was hit in mid-air after he caught the ball. If that ball was meant for Austin, he would have to go up to catch it too and the result probably would have been worst. Vernon weighs 250 lbs and he still flew some after the hit. At 174 lbs, Austin would have definitely suffered a worse injury. Think about it, is a simple matter of physics, you are talking about a massive difference of 76 lbs between Vernon and Austin !! The massive impact would have shattered the kid.
[ Edited by Rascal on Apr 4, 2013 at 10:14 AM ]
Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Originally posted by Rascal:
I can't go with Austin, at least not in the context of going up against the huge Seahawks' DBs such as Browner at 6'4" 221 lbs and Kam Chancellor at 6'3" 232 lbs. Chancellor already gave Vernon a concussion, imagine what would they do to a 5'8" 174 lbs guy ?! They will totally crush him. For a deep threat receiver, I will always go with the tall and physical type.

In regards to the Seattle CBs, I would argue that you can't hit what you can't catch. Those guys succeed with physicality, not quickness and agility, send him in motion, and they shouldn't get a hand on him. I don't see Chancellor making that hit on Austin. I see him gesturing frantically from 10-15 yards away.


If you remember that hit, it was a high ball from Kaep right on the sideline. Vernon was a defenseless receiver, he was hit in mid-air after he caught the ball. If that ball was meant for Austin, he would have to go up to catch it too and the result probably would have been worst. Vernon weighs 250 lbs and he still flew some after the hit. At 174 lbs, Austin would have definitely suffered a worse injury. Think about it, is a simple matter of physics, you are talking about a massive difference of 76 lbs between Vernon and Austin !! The massive impact would have shattered the kid.

I think Austin would have been about ten yards deeper than Vernon was on the play, and Kap would have needed to throw a strike to him. It was a wheel route, and we all know that Vernon can't change direction at full speed, even running an arc. I believe that is what resulted in the defender keeping up well enough with Vernon for Kap to feel like he needed to float the pass. Austin would have torn around that arc at Mach 2, leaving the primary coverage well behind, and eliminating the effectiveness of the rotating safety's support, IMO.
Originally posted by NinerBuff:
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by NinerBuff:
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by NinerBuff:
I like this idea, concise ...

Trade... 49ers get #25 from Minnesota (f/ SEA) for #31 and #93

25. Datone Jones DE
34. Eric Reid FS
61. Aaron Dobson WR

Now THIS looks awesome.

Thanks, but since I said it, Baalke wont do it


Originally posted by OtisDriftwood:
No dobson he stinks.

Your opinion, he seems pretty legit to me. Good size, body control, route running, hands, ....

don't forget the legit 4.4 speed!

haha, how could I forget! He's a poor-mans Julio Jones and at the end of the 2nd round, I say that's good value!
You guys aren't concerned with Dobson's lackluster production against lesser talent in a high scoring offense? I just don't see him being able to separate at the NFL level because even in his highlight videos he's struggling to get open.
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Originally posted by Rascal:
I can't go with Austin, at least not in the context of going up against the huge Seahawks' DBs such as Browner at 6'4" 221 lbs and Kam Chancellor at 6'3" 232 lbs. Chancellor already gave Vernon a concussion, imagine what would they do to a 5'8" 174 lbs guy ?! They will totally crush him. For a deep threat receiver, I will always go with the tall and physical type.

In regards to the Seattle CBs, I would argue that you can't hit what you can't catch. Those guys succeed with physicality, not quickness and agility, send him in motion, and they shouldn't get a hand on him. I don't see Chancellor making that hit on Austin. I see him gesturing frantically from 10-15 yards away.


If you remember that hit, it was a high ball from Kaep right on the sideline. Vernon was a defenseless receiver, he was hit in mid-air after he caught the ball. If that ball was meant for Austin, he would have to go up to catch it too and the result probably would have been worst. Vernon weighs 250 lbs and he still flew some after the hit. At 174 lbs, Austin would have definitely suffered a worse injury. Think about it, is a simple matter of physics, you are talking about a massive difference of 76 lbs between Vernon and Austin !! The massive impact would have shattered the kid.

I think Austin would have been about ten yards deeper than Vernon was on the play, and Kap would have needed to throw a strike to him. It was a wheel route, and we all know that Vernon can't change direction at full speed, even running an arc. I believe that is what resulted in the defender keeping up well enough with Vernon for Kap to feel like he needed to float the pass. Austin would have torn around that arc at Mach 2, leaving the primary coverage well behind, and eliminating the effectiveness of the rotating safety's support, IMO.


Fair enough. But, the way I look at it is this, what we need is a legit deep threat wideout and when you play the deep ball, more than often you will need to go up to compete for the ball. At 5'8", that is a distinct disadvantage. Austin's vertical leap is only 32" while Hunter's is 39.5".
Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Originally posted by Rascal:
I can't go with Austin, at least not in the context of going up against the huge Seahawks' DBs such as Browner at 6'4" 221 lbs and Kam Chancellor at 6'3" 232 lbs. Chancellor already gave Vernon a concussion, imagine what would they do to a 5'8" 174 lbs guy ?! They will totally crush him. For a deep threat receiver, I will always go with the tall and physical type.

In regards to the Seattle CBs, I would argue that you can't hit what you can't catch. Those guys succeed with physicality, not quickness and agility, send him in motion, and they shouldn't get a hand on him. I don't see Chancellor making that hit on Austin. I see him gesturing frantically from 10-15 yards away.


If you remember that hit, it was a high ball from Kaep right on the sideline. Vernon was a defenseless receiver, he was hit in mid-air after he caught the ball. If that ball was meant for Austin, he would have to go up to catch it too and the result probably would have been worst. Vernon weighs 250 lbs and he still flew some after the hit. At 174 lbs, Austin would have definitely suffered a worse injury. Think about it, is a simple matter of physics, you are talking about a massive difference of 76 lbs between Vernon and Austin !! The massive impact would have shattered the kid.

I think Austin would have been about ten yards deeper than Vernon was on the play, and Kap would have needed to throw a strike to him. It was a wheel route, and we all know that Vernon can't change direction at full speed, even running an arc. I believe that is what resulted in the defender keeping up well enough with Vernon for Kap to feel like he needed to float the pass. Austin would have torn around that arc at Mach 2, leaving the primary coverage well behind, and eliminating the effectiveness of the rotating safety's support, IMO.


Fair enough. But, the way I look at it is this, what we need is a legit deep threat wideout and when you play the deep ball, more than often you will need to go up to compete for the ball. At 5'8", that is a distinct disadvantage. Austin's vertical leap is only 32" while Hunter's is 39.5".

Desean Jackson rarely, if ever, goes vertical for a deep ball. I think he's a punk, and I don't want him, but he is a legit small-bodied deep threat. He gets SO OPEN, that the QB can throw an uncontested ball to him deep down the field. I think Austin has that kind of speed/acceleration. I am not saying I would give up enough to go get him, just that he is the only WR in this draft that I would trade up for.
Originally posted by Rascal:
Fair enough. But, the way I look at it is this, what we need is a legit deep threat wideout and when you play the deep ball, more than often you will need to go up to compete for the ball. At 5'8", that is a distinct disadvantage. Austin's vertical leap is only 32" while Hunter's is 39.5".

I think I'd argue that Tavon Austin would fit real well with us and succeed in the NFL despite playing against the big corners in our division. Big hits happen all the time against receivers of different sizes. Tavon is a different case, absolutely, but any receiver can get injured at any time.
Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:
Originally posted by NinerBuff:
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by NinerBuff:
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by NinerBuff:
I like this idea, concise ...

Trade... 49ers get #25 from Minnesota (f/ SEA) for #31 and #93

25. Datone Jones DE
34. Eric Reid FS
61. Aaron Dobson WR

Now THIS looks awesome.

Thanks, but since I said it, Baalke wont do it


Originally posted by OtisDriftwood:
No dobson he stinks.

Your opinion, he seems pretty legit to me. Good size, body control, route running, hands, ....

don't forget the legit 4.4 speed!

haha, how could I forget! He's a poor-mans Julio Jones and at the end of the 2nd round, I say that's good value!
You guys aren't concerned with Dobson's lackluster production against lesser talent in a high scoring offense? I just don't see him being able to separate at the NFL level because even in his highlight videos he's struggling to get open.

If he was getting constant separation, he would be a first rounder. He has everything else you want. I've heard some scouts compare him to Kenny Britt FWIW.
Originally posted by SF69ers:
Originally posted by Rascal:
Fair enough. But, the way I look at it is this, what we need is a legit deep threat wideout and when you play the deep ball, more than often you will need to go up to compete for the ball. At 5'8", that is a distinct disadvantage. Austin's vertical leap is only 32" while Hunter's is 39.5".

I think I'd argue that Tavon Austin would fit real well with us and succeed in the NFL despite playing against the big corners in our division. Big hits happen all the time against receivers of different sizes. Tavon is a different case, absolutely, but any receiver can get injured at any time.


If you play him in the slot yes he will be fine. But, that's not what we want, we need a deep threat wideout. I am not banking on WRATHman44's DeSean Jackson argument that Austin will be open 24/7. I rather go with a prototypical deep ball specialist in Hunter. But, in any case Hunter shouldn't be a direct comparison to Austin cos Austin is supposed to go in the 1st. For a 1st rounder wideout, I would definitely go with Cordarrelle Patterson, is not even close !! This is academic anyway.
Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by SF69ers:
Originally posted by Rascal:
Fair enough. But, the way I look at it is this, what we need is a legit deep threat wideout and when you play the deep ball, more than often you will need to go up to compete for the ball. At 5'8", that is a distinct disadvantage. Austin's vertical leap is only 32" while Hunter's is 39.5".

I think I'd argue that Tavon Austin would fit real well with us and succeed in the NFL despite playing against the big corners in our division. Big hits happen all the time against receivers of different sizes. Tavon is a different case, absolutely, but any receiver can get injured at any time.


If you play him in the slot yes he will be fine. But, that's not what we want, we need a deep threat wideout. I am not banking on WRATHman44's DeSean Jackson argument that Austin will be open 24/7. I rather go with a prototypical deep ball specialist in Hunter. But, in any case Hunter shouldn't be a direct comparison to Austin cos Austin is supposed to go in the 1st. For a 1st rounder wideout, I would definitely go with Cordarrelle Patterson, is not even close !! This is academic anyway.

I don't think we necessarily need a deep threat receiver. Receivers that make plays are all that I look for, honestly. And who's to say Crabtree can't be that type of receiver? We now have a QB that can take the shot down the field. With Alex, we rarely saw that. We might see more of it now with Kaep throwing long to Crabtree and Vernon.
Love the first 2 picks. Would love to use that late 2nd on the best cb prospect with good size/speed ratio
Originally posted by SF69ers:
Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by SF69ers:
Originally posted by Rascal:
Fair enough. But, the way I look at it is this, what we need is a legit deep threat wideout and when you play the deep ball, more than often you will need to go up to compete for the ball. At 5'8", that is a distinct disadvantage. Austin's vertical leap is only 32" while Hunter's is 39.5".

I think I'd argue that Tavon Austin would fit real well with us and succeed in the NFL despite playing against the big corners in our division. Big hits happen all the time against receivers of different sizes. Tavon is a different case, absolutely, but any receiver can get injured at any time.


If you play him in the slot yes he will be fine. But, that's not what we want, we need a deep threat wideout. I am not banking on WRATHman44's DeSean Jackson argument that Austin will be open 24/7. I rather go with a prototypical deep ball specialist in Hunter. But, in any case Hunter shouldn't be a direct comparison to Austin cos Austin is supposed to go in the 1st. For a 1st rounder wideout, I would definitely go with Cordarrelle Patterson, is not even close !! This is academic anyway.

I don't think we necessarily need a deep threat receiver. Receivers that make plays are all that I look for, honestly. And who's to say Crabtree can't be that type of receiver? We now have a QB that can take the shot down the field. With Alex, we rarely saw that. We might see more of it now with Kaep throwing long to Crabtree and Vernon.


We definitely need a deep threat wideout. Everybody knows that. That was why we got Randy Moss, only that he didn't quite live up to expectations. Kaep had already been throwing deep quite frequently last season, but he just didn't have a good enough go-to target in Moss.. Crab and Vernon are mainly good for up to intermediate plays, say 20-35 yards or so. But, if you are talking about big vertical bombs of 50 yards and above, we don't have that guy. Crab is not fast enough to burn the DBs that far. Kaep is capable of making 70 yards throws, if we have a guy that can burn that far, it will definitely happen.
Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by SF69ers:
Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by SF69ers:
Originally posted by Rascal:
Fair enough. But, the way I look at it is this, what we need is a legit deep threat wideout and when you play the deep ball, more than often you will need to go up to compete for the ball. At 5'8", that is a distinct disadvantage. Austin's vertical leap is only 32" while Hunter's is 39.5".

I think I'd argue that Tavon Austin would fit real well with us and succeed in the NFL despite playing against the big corners in our division. Big hits happen all the time against receivers of different sizes. Tavon is a different case, absolutely, but any receiver can get injured at any time.


If you play him in the slot yes he will be fine. But, that's not what we want, we need a deep threat wideout. I am not banking on WRATHman44's DeSean Jackson argument that Austin will be open 24/7. I rather go with a prototypical deep ball specialist in Hunter. But, in any case Hunter shouldn't be a direct comparison to Austin cos Austin is supposed to go in the 1st. For a 1st rounder wideout, I would definitely go with Cordarrelle Patterson, is not even close !! This is academic anyway.

I don't think we necessarily need a deep threat receiver. Receivers that make plays are all that I look for, honestly. And who's to say Crabtree can't be that type of receiver? We now have a QB that can take the shot down the field. With Alex, we rarely saw that. We might see more of it now with Kaep throwing long to Crabtree and Vernon.


We definitely need a deep threat wideout. Everybody knows that. That was why we got Randy Moss, only that he didn't quite live up to expectations. Kaep had already been throwing deep quite frequently last season, but he just didn't have a good enough go-to target in Moss.. Crab and Vernon are mainly good for up to intermediate plays, say 20-35 yards or so. But, if you are talking about big vertical bombs of 50 yards and above, we don't have that guy. Crab is not fast enough to burn the DBs that far. Kaep is capable of making 70 yards throws, if we have a guy that can burn that far, it will definitely happen.

It'd be nice to have a weapon like that, but we've been successful the last 2 seasons without a speed threat like that. Who knows, AJ Jenkins could be that guy if he puts the time in. 20-35 yard plays from Crabs and Vernon are good. We're still a running team when it comes down to it.
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