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Tank Carradine- Florida State DE

31
Tank Carradine/Jarvis Jones PR (pass rusher)
34
Zach Ertz TE
45 (trade up 61+93) San Diego
Robert Alford/DJ Hayden CB
74 (trade down for 96 and 99) Kansas City 220=220
91 (trade up 99+173+180) New England
Marcus Lattimore RB
96 (acquired)
Montori Hughes NT
99 (acquired and traded)
111
(trade up 128+157) Miami
Da'Rick Rogers WR
131 comp
Dallas Thomas OT
173 traded
180 traded
237
Sean Renfree/Jeff Tuel QB
246 comp
Glenn Foster DT/DE
252 comp
Ray Polk FS (6-1, 219, 4.42 [3rd fastest FS])

Carradine really didn't impress me in beating the man in front of him/getting off his blocks. But he looks to have good awareness, size, and athleticism, so he projects well. With his ACL injury in mind, I don't really see him as a 1st round pick, maybe a mid-late 2nd rounder at best, if he's gonna be an edge rusher.
Carradine is this year's Bruce Irvin, though I believe Irvin was a much better prospect. A guy who is a year old for the class, 24 years old, but produced at the college level. My belief is Carradine is perfect for this team. Won't be an elite pass rusher i.e. Aldon, Von Miller, Ware but can be a top level weak side pass rusher. Plug him in on passing downs and he can get 8 sacks this season.
Originally posted by shaneblonien:
Carradine is this year's Bruce Irvin, though I believe Irvin was a much better prospect. A guy who is a year old for the class, 24 years old, but produced at the college level. My belief is Carradine is perfect for this team. Won't be an elite pass rusher i.e. Aldon, Von Miller, Ware but can be a top level weak side pass rusher. Plug him in on passing downs and he can get 8 sacks this season.
They are not similar players AT ALL. Irvin was an undersized, one-dimensional, speedy edge rusher; athough that one dimension (speed) was elite and made a late rise up the boards. Carradine is a big DE (276 pounds) who can defend the run and rush the passer and isn't a pure edge rusher like Irvin is. He was also looking like a sure-fire first round pick before his ACL injury, and now that he has shown that he is way ahead of schedule in his rehab he is starting to rise up the board again.

A guy who is most similar to Irvin in this years draft is Barkevious Mingo. If you want to look in the mid-rounds, Trevardo Williams out of UConn has a very similar skill set.
Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:
They are not similar players AT ALL. Irvin was an undersized, one-dimensional, speedy edge rusher; athough that one dimension (speed) was elite and made a late rise up the boards. Carradine is a big DE (276 pounds) who can defend the run and rush the passer and isn't a pure edge rusher like Irvin is. He was also looking like a sure-fire first round pick before his ACL injury, and now that he has shown that he is way ahead of schedule in his rehab he is starting to rise up the board again.

A guy who is most similar to Irvin in this years draft is Barkevious Mingo. If you want to look in the mid-rounds, Trevardo Williams out of UConn has a very similar skill set.

I'm talking in the sense he came from nowhere. Without Brandon Jenkins getting hurt Tank Carradine is a nobody. I'd still rather have Irvin over Carradine. You can't coach the explosiveness that guy has. Would you rather have Irvin and say Hunter or Jenkins and Carradine?
Originally posted by shaneblonien:
Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:
They are not similar players AT ALL. Irvin was an undersized, one-dimensional, speedy edge rusher; athough that one dimension (speed) was elite and made a late rise up the boards. Carradine is a big DE (276 pounds) who can defend the run and rush the passer and isn't a pure edge rusher like Irvin is. He was also looking like a sure-fire first round pick before his ACL injury, and now that he has shown that he is way ahead of schedule in his rehab he is starting to rise up the board again.

A guy who is most similar to Irvin in this years draft is Barkevious Mingo. If you want to look in the mid-rounds, Trevardo Williams out of UConn has a very similar skill set.

I'm talking in the sense he came from nowhere. Without Brandon Jenkins getting hurt Tank Carradine is a nobody. I'd still rather have Irvin over Carradine. You can't coach the explosiveness that guy has. Would you rather have Irvin and say Hunter or Jenkins and Carradine?
It's a moot point. Irvin went 15th overall so we didn't even have a choice between Jenkins or Irvin last year.

I don't see Carradine as an ideal 3-4 OLB anyways. He's a DE all the way, he'd fit in a 4-3 and IMO he'd also fit very well as a DE in our hybrid/1-gap 3-4 scheme. Given the fact that our D-line coach went to his workout and not our linebacker coach I think the 49ers are looking at him the same way.

Bruce Irvin hardly came from nowhere. He was Scout.com's #2 JUCO prospect and racked up 22.5 sacks and 29 TFL in 2 seasons at West Virginia. Carradine was also one of the top JUCO prospects in the country when he transferred to FSU. Both were definitely on the radar of NFL scouts even if they weren't on the media's radar until relatively late in the draft process.

You want to talk about someone who came from nowhere: Ziggy Ansah. He wasn't even recruited as a football player and was a walk on at BYU.
[ Edited by AllTimeGreat on Apr 20, 2013 at 10:40 PM ]
Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:
Originally posted by shaneblonien:
Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:
They are not similar players AT ALL. Irvin was an undersized, one-dimensional, speedy edge rusher; athough that one dimension (speed) was elite and made a late rise up the boards. Carradine is a big DE (276 pounds) who can defend the run and rush the passer and isn't a pure edge rusher like Irvin is. He was also looking like a sure-fire first round pick before his ACL injury, and now that he has shown that he is way ahead of schedule in his rehab he is starting to rise up the board again.

A guy who is most similar to Irvin in this years draft is Barkevious Mingo. If you want to look in the mid-rounds, Trevardo Williams out of UConn has a very similar skill set.

I'm talking in the sense he came from nowhere. Without Brandon Jenkins getting hurt Tank Carradine is a nobody. I'd still rather have Irvin over Carradine. You can't coach the explosiveness that guy has. Would you rather have Irvin and say Hunter or Jenkins and Carradine?
It's a moot point. Irvin went 15th overall so we didn't even have a choice between Jenkins or Irvin last year.

I don't see Carradine as an ideal 3-4 OLB anyways. He's a DE all the way, he'd fit in a 4-3 and IMO he'd also fit very well as a DE in our hybrid/1-gap 3-4 scheme. Given the fact that our D-line coach went to his workout and not our OLB coach I think the 49ers would be looking at him the same way.

Bruce Irvin hardly came from nowhere. He was Scout.com's #2 JUCO prospect and racked up 22.5 sacks and 29 TFL in 2 seasons at West Virginia. Carradine was also one of the top JUCO prospects in the country when he transferred to FSU. Both were definitely on the radar of NFL scouts even if they weren't on the media's radar until relatively late in the draft process.

You want to talk about someone who came from nowhere: Ziggy Ansah. He wasn't even recruited as a football player and was a walk on at BYU.

From what I've seen on game days Tomsula interacts with Aldon and Brooks more than Leavitt who I think focuses more on the ILB's, that said I think they're looking at him as a DE.
[ Edited by SonocoNinerFan on Apr 20, 2013 at 10:42 PM ]
Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:
It's a moot point. Irvin went 15th overall so we didn't even have a choice between Jenkins or Irvin last year.

I don't see Carradine as an ideal 3-4 OLB anyways. He's a DE all the way, he'd fit in a 4-3 and IMO he'd also fit very well as a DE in our hybrid/1-gap 3-4 scheme. Given the fact that our D-line coach went to his workout and not our linebacker coach I think the 49ers are looking at him the same way.

Bruce Irvin hardly came from nowhere. He was Scout.com's #2 JUCO prospect and racked up 22.5 sacks and 29 TFL in 2 seasons at West Virginia. Carradine was also one of the top JUCO prospects in the country when he transferred to FSU. Both were definitely on the radar of NFL scouts even if they weren't on the media's radar until relatively late in the draft process.

You want to talk about someone who came from nowhere: Ziggy Ansah. He wasn't even recruited as a football player and was a walk on at BYU.
You make some great points. Not to make excuses but I've found a lot less time to do my own "scouting" during my freshman year of college. Please bare with me. Carradine is a JUCO guy as well but even JUCO guys are rarely expected to make these type of contributions. I don't doubt Carradine will have a nice career but I just don't see him being an elite guy. He could very well end up second level like Chris Clemons which is great value at end of round one. I see him being a high end Ahmad Brooks, a great weak side pass rusher.

Could you explain the "hybrid/1-gap 3-4 scheme" the Niners run you speak of? I would just like a better understanding is all.
Lattimore in the 3rd? Way too high
Originally posted by shaneblonien:
Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:
It's a moot point. Irvin went 15th overall so we didn't even have a choice between Jenkins or Irvin last year.

I don't see Carradine as an ideal 3-4 OLB anyways. He's a DE all the way, he'd fit in a 4-3 and IMO he'd also fit very well as a DE in our hybrid/1-gap 3-4 scheme. Given the fact that our D-line coach went to his workout and not our linebacker coach I think the 49ers are looking at him the same way.

Bruce Irvin hardly came from nowhere. He was Scout.com's #2 JUCO prospect and racked up 22.5 sacks and 29 TFL in 2 seasons at West Virginia. Carradine was also one of the top JUCO prospects in the country when he transferred to FSU. Both were definitely on the radar of NFL scouts even if they weren't on the media's radar until relatively late in the draft process.

You want to talk about someone who came from nowhere: Ziggy Ansah. He wasn't even recruited as a football player and was a walk on at BYU.
You make some great points. Not to make excuses but I've found a lot less time to do my own "scouting" during my freshman year of college. Please bare with me. Carradine is a JUCO guy as well but even JUCO guys are rarely expected to make these type of contributions. I don't doubt Carradine will have a nice career but I just don't see him being an elite guy. He could very well end up second level like Chris Clemons which is great value at end of round one. I see him being a high end Ahmad Brooks, a great weak side pass rusher.

Could you explain the "hybrid/1-gap 3-4 scheme" the Niners run you speak of? I would just like a better understanding is all.
Haha I understand man. When I was in college I rarely focused much on the draft. The only reason I know so much about this years draft is that I'm currently between jobs so I have more time to "geek out" when it comes to the draft.

I personally wouldn't draw too many conclusions from the fact they went to junior college first. There's no forumula for what makes an NFL player. They can come from small schools, big schools, JUCO transfers, 5-star recruits, overlooked-out-of-high-school players. Highly touted 1st rounders can be complete busts while 7th rounders can become studs. Some guys need time to develop on the practice squad or even the CFL before making it as productive NFL players while some players never seem to develop at all. It's what makes the draft such an inexact science!

There are people on this board who have a lot more football knowledge and can explain schemes and formations much better than I can, but I can try! We technically run a 3-4 defense. But within that there are a lot of variations. The classic 3-4 required their D-line players to "2-gap," which means that each of the linemen are supposed to command double teams, hold the line of scrimmage and free up the linebackers to make plays. Pittsburgh is one team that has classically run and continues to run a traditional 3-4 style.

Today a lot of the 3-4 defenses you see are the "1-gap" style. Like the 4-3, the D-linemen are only responsible for 1 gap but the OLB's are primarily responsible for the pass-rush like in the classic 3-4. 3-4 OLB's are like 4-3 DE's except that 3-4 OLB's don't have as many responsibilities against the run- the responsibilities generally involve "setting the edge" and making the RB bounce it inside where the D-linemen and ILB can clean it up. While the OLB doesn't have to be as strong against the run in the 3-4, they instead have to be much better in coverage. Thus, 3-4 OLBs are generally smaller and faster than 4-3 DE's since they have to be able to cover receivers and keep RB's from getting to the outside.

Ideally you'd have two OLB's who were equally adept at dropping back into coverage and rushing the passer. In that case you could show blitz with both OLB's, but drop one of the two into coverage. You'd still be rushing 4 and dropping 3 just like in the 4-3, except defenses can disguise where the rush is coming from and thus have an advantage. OLBs who can both cover and rush the passer are extremely rare which is why they are in such high demand in the NFL. If you don't have the proper personel, the advantage in disguising the rush is lessened because offenses can easily guess which OLB will be rushing and which one will be dropping back. Plus the OLB that drops back isn't likely to be as good in coverage as a 4-3 OLB would be.

A hybrid defense just means that a defense uses both 4-3 and 3-4 looks and therefore can't be easily categorized. Baltimore is the classic example of a hybrid defense. Hope this helped and isn't too confusing to understand!
Injury or not, I don't see any possibility of Tank falling outside the 2nd round.
Originally posted by kronik:
Lattimore in the 3rd? Way too high

I'm not saying the 49ers should draft him earlier, but I don't think the 3rd is too high. Willis McGahee tore his ACL, MCL and PCL in January '03 and was drafted #23 a few months later. He sat out the entire '03 year. Now, the league has definitely changed in 10 years and RBs aren't valued the same way - thats why there's no way Lattimore goes #23. But I think 3rd round is where he'll get drafted.
It's also important to know the Gators ran right at him and had great success...FWIW, Walter's Football has him ranked #4 as a 4-3 DE, not a 3-4. He could be worth taking, but I wouldn't put too much stock in the fact Tomsula went to his pro day. Coming off a late injury doesn't help his status, but we'll see. At this point, I'd say he's another player "in the hopper" but have no idea where he'd rank on the Niners draft board.
Rogers falling to 111 would shock everyone IMO
Very good player but better suited for a team running a 4-3. I would be surprised if the Niners picked him but Baalke has surprised me before.