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Draft players visiting the niners, and niners going to Prodays

Originally posted by 5280High:
Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by SFrush:
No visit for Eric Reid.

Baalke is eying him for sure.


If he is, he might have to trade up in the 1st to get him.

Am I imagining articles now, i thought a week or two ago there was an article that indicated the Niners really liked and were interested in Reid, maybe it was at LSUs proday.
No you weren't imaging anything. I was just speculating some of the top guys we don't invite in for visits are the guys to keep an eye on.
[ Edited by SFrush on Apr 10, 2013 at 5:20 PM ]
Originally posted by Jcool:
Matt Maiocco ‏@MaioccoCSN

Stanford TE Zach Ertz is scheduled to attend 49ers local pro day on April 17. He'll meet with coaches but is not expected to work out.


Wow, that might be it. They already interviewed him at the Combine.
Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by Jcool:
Matt Maiocco ‏@MaioccoCSN

Stanford TE Zach Ertz is scheduled to attend 49ers local pro day on April 17. He'll meet with coaches but is not expected to work out.


Wow, that might be it. They already interviewed him at the Combine.

wouldn't put too much into it.
Originally posted by SF69ers:
wouldn't put too much into it.


I just have that feeling. I want WR, TE and then DB. But, I know the 9ers are not going to be that bold. I figure they probably might go DB such as an Eric Reid or Jonathan Cyprien at 31st (that is if they are still available) then followed by a TE at 34th and at 34th Zach Ertz is the best TE that you can get (if Eifert goes in the 1st). I know they will have to address that void left by Delanie, he was a big target for Kaep.
Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by SF69ers:
wouldn't put too much into it.


I just have that feeling. I want WR, TE and then DB. But, I know the 9ers are not going to be that bold. I figure they probably might go DB such as an Eric Reid or Jonathan Cyprien at 31st (that is if they are still available) then followed by a TE at 34th and at 34th Zach Ertz is the best TE that you can get (if Eifert goes in the 1st). I know they will have to address that void left by Delanie, he was a big target for Kaep.

what people are not taking under consideration is that Anquan Boldin could provide some of the assignments that Walker did last season. I just see too much value at WR and defensive positions in the 2nd round to use it on a TE, as much as a fan I am of Ertz. if we take Ertz, of course I'll be happy, but i'd prefer to select a TE no earlier than the 3rd on Vance McDonald, or in the 4th/5th on Dion Sims, or the 6th on Chris Gragg.
Originally posted by SF69ers:
what people are not taking under consideration is that Anquan Boldin could provide some of the assignments that Walker did last season. I just see too much value at WR and defensive positions in the 2nd round to use it on a TE, as much as a fan I am of Ertz. if we take Ertz, of course I'll be happy, but i'd prefer to select a TE no earlier than the 3rd on Vance McDonald, or in the 4th/5th on Dion Sims, or the 6th on Chris Gragg.


Well, that depends what WR you are going to get. Personally, I want Justin Hunter which is a realistic target with our picks, but I have him going in the 1st. If you tell me, we can have Justin Hunter at 34th, then I am cool with that. But, here is the thing, in my opinion, in terms of TEs, I see a sizeable drop-off after Eifert and Ertz. Those 2 are just heads above the rest.
Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by SF69ers:
what people are not taking under consideration is that Anquan Boldin could provide some of the assignments that Walker did last season. I just see too much value at WR and defensive positions in the 2nd round to use it on a TE, as much as a fan I am of Ertz. if we take Ertz, of course I'll be happy, but i'd prefer to select a TE no earlier than the 3rd on Vance McDonald, or in the 4th/5th on Dion Sims, or the 6th on Chris Gragg.


Well, that depends what WR you are going to get. Personally, I want Justin Hunter which is a realistic target with our picks, but I have him going in the 1st. If you tell me, we can have Justin Hunter at 34th, then I am cool with that. But, here is the thing, in my opinion, in terms of TEs, I see a sizeable drop-off after Eifert and Ertz. Those 2 are just heads above the rest.

i agree on the TE talent, absolutely, but we still have Vernon Davis, who will probably see more of the looks. Guys like McDonald, Sims, or Gragg could all provide the production left by Delanie Walker.
Originally posted by SF69ers:
Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by Jcool:
Matt Maiocco ‏@MaioccoCSN

Stanford TE Zach Ertz is scheduled to attend 49ers local pro day on April 17. He'll meet with coaches but is not expected to work out.


Wow, that might be it. They already interviewed him at the Combine.

wouldn't put too much into it.

Coby Fleener did the same thing with us last year. Just sat on the sidelines and talked with the coaches. I get the feeling we like Kelce or Esobar at 61 or 74.
[ Edited by Gore_21 on Apr 11, 2013 at 9:55 AM ]
Originally posted by SF69ers:
i agree on the TE talent, absolutely, but we still have Vernon Davis, who will probably see more of the looks. Guys like McDonald, Sims, or Gragg could all provide the production left by Delanie Walker.


That I can't agree and I will tell you why. When Vernon first emerged as a huge playmaker for the 9ers during the Alex Smith era, teams tried to cover him only to find out more than often a double-team was required. Because of that, Vernon's production has dropped as we had to diversify our targets. As such, Delanie also became a fairly frequent alternative target. This is key if we are to get Vernon open. We can't afford to be too predictable and show obvious tendencies cos all teams watch films. Is a bit like after Mario and Kyle went down, everybody in the league knew Crab was Kaep's go-to guy. That is not a good thing. I haven't watched films on McDonald, Sims ir Gragg, so I can't really comment on them. But, if they are anything like Celek, then forget about it. Bottomline, we need a legit TE especially since we both agree on the massive drop-off after Eifert and Ertz.
Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by SF69ers:
i agree on the TE talent, absolutely, but we still have Vernon Davis, who will probably see more of the looks. Guys like McDonald, Sims, or Gragg could all provide the production left by Delanie Walker.


That I can't agree and I will tell you why. When Vernon first emerged as a huge playmaker for the 9ers during the Alex Smith era, teams tried to cover him only to find out more than often a double-team was required. Because of that, Vernon's production has dropped as we had to diversify our targets. As such, Delanie also became a fairly frequent alternative target. This is key if we are to get Vernon open. We can't afford to be too predictable and show obvious tendencies cos all teams watch films. Is a bit like after Mario and Kyle went down, everybody in the league knew Crab was Kaep's go-to guy. That is not a good thing. I haven't watched films on McDonald, Sims ir Gragg, so I can't really comment on them. But, if they are anything like Celek, then forget about it. Bottomline, we need a legit TE especially since we both agree on the massive drop-off after Eifert and Ertz.

i guess we can agree to disagree. yes, vernon started to receive much more attention in the passing game and demanded double-teams. also remember that Alex, not taking a shot at him, but he wasn't necessarily the type of QB that would take risks in the passing game. when kaep came in, Crabtree produced more. when he began to produce and getting more double teams, vernon was open. delanie got his occasional touches despite all the drops, but Crabtree and Vernon were our main targets. Manningham, prior to his injury, also got his looks. TE or WR, it doesn't matter because we have a QB that can get them the ball consistently. now, we have Boldin, who has been the model of consistency as a receiver and a blocker. as a matter of fact, he's considered one of the best blocking receivers in the game. so even at this point, defenses will have to choose who to double between Crabs, Vernon, or Boldin, all guys that are proven playmakers. so we can afford to wait to get a TE in the 3rd/4th/5th or a receiver in the 2nd/3rd.
Originally posted by SF69ers:
i guess we can agree to disagree. yes, vernon started to receive much more attention in the passing game and demanded double-teams. also remember that Alex, not taking a shot at him, but he wasn't necessarily the type of QB that would take risks in the passing game. when kaep came in, Crabtree produced more. when he began to produce and getting more double teams, vernon was open. delanie got his occasional touches despite all the drops, but Crabtree and Vernon were our main targets. Manningham, prior to his injury, also got his looks. TE or WR, it doesn't matter because we have a QB that can get them the ball consistently. now, we have Boldin, who has been the model of consistency as a receiver and a blocker. as a matter of fact, he's considered one of the best blocking receivers in the game. so even at this point, defenses will have to choose who to double between Crabs, Vernon, or Boldin, all guys that are proven playmakers. so we can afford to wait to get a TE in the 3rd/4th/5th or a receiver in the 2nd/3rd.


Honestly, we are not too far apart. It sounds like you want your fair share of offensive players as well. If Baalke says DB, WR, DB/DL, TE, I am not going to complain too much cos at least I am getting a WR and a TE.

But, I am not sure whether you have read my rationale for the draft on other threads. Everybody screams DL, DL and DL. I am one of the few who are going against the grain if you will. In short, I strongly believe we have to "win now" as in bringing home the Lombardi this season. That is why I am going to draft on the offensive side of the ball for the top 2 picks. I seriously think we are just a couple of weapons away from getting us over the hump. Plus, remember "defense doesn't win championships" anymore.
Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by SF69ers:
i guess we can agree to disagree. yes, vernon started to receive much more attention in the passing game and demanded double-teams. also remember that Alex, not taking a shot at him, but he wasn't necessarily the type of QB that would take risks in the passing game. when kaep came in, Crabtree produced more. when he began to produce and getting more double teams, vernon was open. delanie got his occasional touches despite all the drops, but Crabtree and Vernon were our main targets. Manningham, prior to his injury, also got his looks. TE or WR, it doesn't matter because we have a QB that can get them the ball consistently. now, we have Boldin, who has been the model of consistency as a receiver and a blocker. as a matter of fact, he's considered one of the best blocking receivers in the game. so even at this point, defenses will have to choose who to double between Crabs, Vernon, or Boldin, all guys that are proven playmakers. so we can afford to wait to get a TE in the 3rd/4th/5th or a receiver in the 2nd/3rd.


Honestly, we are not too far apart. It sounds like you want your fair share of offensive players as well. If Baalke says DB, WR, DB/DL, TE, I am not going to complain too much cos at least I am getting a WR and a TE.

But, I am not sure whether you have read my rationale for the draft on other threads. Everybody screams DL, DL and DL. I am one of the few who are going against the grain if you will. In short, I strongly believe we have to "win now" as in bringing home the Lombardi this season. That is why I am going to draft on the offensive side of the ball for the top 2 picks. I seriously think we are just a couple of weapons away from getting us over the hump. Plus, remember "defense doesn't win championships" anymore.

i see what you're saying. there's no penalty in going against the grain, considering the way our team is built, although i argue about needed the pieces on offense. our offense produced last season, especially in the playoffs. now, we'll have Kaep for a full season, and we still have Crab, Vernon, Gore, a seasoned LMJ, and the addition of Boldin. IMO, we're already better in the offensive side of the ball. What struggled, from the last quarter of the season through the playoffs, was our defense, more specifically, the pass rush. When Justin Smith was hurt, we got no pass rush, which is why our secondary was torched. a lot of people scream DB DB DB, but if you don't have a pass rush, you can have Revis and Champ as your starting DBs, but they'll still get torched if there wasn't a pass rush. what people don't realize is that Aldon was also playing hurt. adding Glenn Dorsey helps, but we need to be able to provide more depth behind Justin and Ray and the NT position. this way, if we can spell them, they'll be more fresh towards the end of the season.

in other threads, i mention that i'd prefer to go DL, S, DL, WR, DB with our first 4 picks. if it was my choice, i'd actually trade out of the 1st to get an additional 2nd or 3rd and a future pick.
Originally posted by SF69ers:
i see what you're saying. there's no penalty in going against the grain, considering the way our team is built, although i argue about needed the pieces on offense. our offense produced last season, especially in the playoffs. now, we'll have Kaep for a full season, and we still have Crab, Vernon, Gore, a seasoned LMJ, and the addition of Boldin. IMO, we're already better in the offensive side of the ball. What struggled, from the last quarter of the season through the playoffs, was our defense, more specifically, the pass rush. When Justin Smith was hurt, we got no pass rush, which is why our secondary was torched. a lot of people scream DB DB DB, but if you don't have a pass rush, you can have Revis and Champ as your starting DBs, but they'll still get torched if there wasn't a pass rush. what people don't realize is that Aldon was also playing hurt. adding Glenn Dorsey helps, but we need to be able to provide more depth behind Justin and Ray and the NT position. this way, if we can spell them, they'll be more fresh towards the end of the season.

in other threads, i mention that i'd prefer to go DL, S, DL, WR, DB with our first 4 picks. if it was my choice, i'd actually trade out of the 1st to get an additional 2nd or 3rd and a future pick.


I totally get what you are saying and I can't disagree on the importance of pass rush.

But, I am going to introduce another line of argument here. That is no matter how stout your D is (pass rush inclusive), a great team with a great offense is still going to score on you and perhaps even score on you big. That didn't just happen to us, it happened to the Seahawks too when they played the Falcons. The question is what do you do at that point when you are down by 17, down by 22 at the half ? Your D might be able to get the offense back on the field, but they are not going to win the game for you. What you need is an explosive offense that can put points on the board and ultimately outscore your opponent to win football games. In quite a number of games, we have had those slow starts, we were getting 3 and outs and couldn't finish drives, not to mention our lingering issue in the red zone. I would argue if we had more weapons, it would help to take us over the edge. We almost did it in the Super Bowl, we climbed all the way back with over 20 unanswered points or something along those lines ?

In any case, I am not saying don't draft for pass rush. But, do we have to use a top pick for a DL ? You are essentially only drafting for depth for DL. Whereas I am suggesting to draft players on the offensive side of the ball who can contribute and help us win ball games right from the word go. Furthermore, if you buy into the argument that the window for our current crop of star players from the 2005-2007 draft class such as Frank, Vernon and Pat is vastly narrowing, then the appropriate measures will need to be taken in the way we approach the draft. That to me is by going all out to boost our O. Besides, even if you can't get the defensive players you want this draft, you can always use the top picks next year on the D. My overwhelming concern is Frank is already 31, Vernon is 29 and Pat is 28, if we still can't get it done this season, it could be it for this current team as we know it with this star nucleus. Come next season or at most the season after the next, another team will have to take over in the "Quest for 6".
Originally posted by Gore_21:
Originally posted by SF69ers:
Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by Jcool:
Matt Maiocco ‏@MaioccoCSN

Stanford TE Zach Ertz is scheduled to attend 49ers local pro day on April 17. He'll meet with coaches but is not expected to work out.


Wow, that might be it. They already interviewed him at the Combine.

wouldn't put too much into it.

Coby Fleener did the same thing with us last year. Just sat on the sidelines and talked with the coaches. I get the feeling we like Kelce or Esobar at 61 or 74.

I REALLY want Kelce. I think he fits us really well with his great blocking ability and good ability
Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by SF69ers:
i see what you're saying. there's no penalty in going against the grain, considering the way our team is built, although i argue about needed the pieces on offense. our offense produced last season, especially in the playoffs. now, we'll have Kaep for a full season, and we still have Crab, Vernon, Gore, a seasoned LMJ, and the addition of Boldin. IMO, we're already better in the offensive side of the ball. What struggled, from the last quarter of the season through the playoffs, was our defense, more specifically, the pass rush. When Justin Smith was hurt, we got no pass rush, which is why our secondary was torched. a lot of people scream DB DB DB, but if you don't have a pass rush, you can have Revis and Champ as your starting DBs, but they'll still get torched if there wasn't a pass rush. what people don't realize is that Aldon was also playing hurt. adding Glenn Dorsey helps, but we need to be able to provide more depth behind Justin and Ray and the NT position. this way, if we can spell them, they'll be more fresh towards the end of the season.

in other threads, i mention that i'd prefer to go DL, S, DL, WR, DB with our first 4 picks. if it was my choice, i'd actually trade out of the 1st to get an additional 2nd or 3rd and a future pick.


I totally get what you are saying and I can't disagree on the importance of pass rush.

But, I am going to introduce another line of argument here. That is no matter how stout your D is (pass rush inclusive), a great team with a great offense is still going to score on you and perhaps even score on you big. That didn't just happen to us, it happened to the Seahawks too when they played the Falcons. The question is what do you do at that point when you are down by 17, down by 22 at the half ? Your D might be able to get the offense back on the field, but they are not going to win the game for you. What you need is an explosive offense that can put points on the board and ultimately outscore your opponent to win football games. In quite a number of games, we have had those slow starts, we were getting 3 and outs and couldn't finish drives, not to mention our lingering issue in the red zone. I would argue if we had more weapons, it would help to take us over the edge. We almost did it in the Super Bowl, we climbed all the way back with over 20 unanswered points or something along those lines ?

In any case, I am not saying don't draft for pass rush. But, do we have to use a top pick for a DL ? You are essentially only drafting for depth for DL. Whereas I am suggesting to draft players on the offensive side of the ball who can contribute and help us win ball games right from the word go. Furthermore, if you buy into the argument that the window for our current crop of star players from the 2005-2007 draft class such as Frank, Vernon and Pat is vastly narrowing, then the appropriate measures will need to be taken in the way we approach the draft. That to me is by going all out to boost our O. Besides, even if you can't get the defensive players you want this draft, you can always use the top picks next year on the D. My overwhelming concern is Frank is already 31, Vernon is 29 and Pat is 28, if we still can't get it done this season, it could be it for this current team as we know it with this star nucleus. Come next season or at most the season after the next, another team will have to take over in the "Quest for 6".

strong and valid points, Rascal.

i'd like to argue that i feel that our offense, currently, is explosive enough to be able to score over and over again. we're not built like the Patriots or Atlanta, because we can score passing and running. we are still a running team, so guys like Frank, Hunter, and LMJ are also HUGE pieces to our offense.

also to keep it short, drafting DL for depth is extremely valuable for us, possibly more than a WR/TE early in the draft (1st/high 2nd). the reason i say that is because of the complexity of our offensive playbook and the defensive value in the draft. AJ Jenkins had a difficult time getting on the field. A WR or a TE could possibly have the same issues. there's so many assignments a WR/TE needs to know on each play. on the defense, i can't stress the importance of depth. we can't afford to lose Justin Smith down the stretch again. also, Jim Tomsula gets the very best out of his prospects. as far as value in the draft, the value in the 2nd and 3rd round on DL is so high. guys like Brandon Williams, Margus Hunt, Kawann Short, John Jenkins, John Hankins could be had in the 2nd/3rd rounds. don't forget the value at safety with Matt Elam, Cyprien, Phillip Thomas, DJ Swearinger and Bacarri Rambo in the 2nd/3rd rounds. I just find so much more value in those players, all of which can produce right away.

Ertz can absolutely come in and produce as Walker's replacement. He's not a better run/pass blocker, but he's a smart receiver. if i had to go with a receiver, WR or TE, in the 2nd, i'd rather take Da'Rick Rogers with our late 2nd, then Ertz with our early 2nd.
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