There are 101 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

I' ve concluded that DL Jesse Williams is 'my guy' at #32 ( or near there)

After looking through so many mocks, senior bowl coverage, scouting reports, etc, I've come to the conclusion that Alabama DL Jesse Williams is the beck pick for the 49ers.

but unlike many. I want him as a 5 technique end, not a nose tackle. His versatility, size, and experience playing at a high level makes him an ideal pick.

He might grow into a NT eventually, but that's not what I'd draft him for.

who else is with me?
  • GEEK
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 17,123
Sopoaga started at DE under Manusky before converting to NT after Franklin left. You kill two birds with one stone by someone like Jesse Williams. He's my guy, too.
Originally posted by nickbradley:
After looking through so many mocks, senior bowl coverage, scouting reports, etc, I've come to the conclusion that Alabama DL Jesse Williams is the beck pick for the 49ers.

but unlike many. I want him as a 5 technique end, not a nose tackle. His versatility, size, and experience playing at a high level makes him an ideal pick.

He might grow into a NT eventually, but that's not what I'd draft him for.

who else is with me?


Here is the flaw in your thinking. Why do the 49ers need a defensive end? They've got two starters, right? One of them happens to be getting up there in years, and that guy is Justin Smith. You'd like to draft an eventual replacement for Justin Smith at DE.

Jesse Williams is not a replacement for Justin Smith at DE. Maybe if the 49ers ran their system like the Steelers do, but that isn't case. If you are seeking to replace Justin Smith eventually, you want someone that can both stop the run AND rush the passer. Jesse Williams is an atrocious pass rusher, he was asked to hold the edge and little else. You don't replace a star DE with a generic 5-technique. You need to find someone who is also explosive, who is quick off the ball, who can get to the quarterback, who is a complete player.


The reason people want Jesse Williams at NT is simple, he's big, he's strong,he has decent athleticism for that position and he can limit teams from running up the middle, but because of his lack of pass rush ability, he simply doesn't belong on the outside on the 49ers. Justin Smith coming out of college was about 6'4" and 270, he ran a 4.6 40 and possessed tremendous strength. You don't replace a guy like that with a big, fat guy who takes up space, you need to find someone with similar explosion and athletic ability.

This is why I feel Datone Jones is far more of an ideal DE than Williams. He's got the ability, the quickness, the explosive first step, he can stop the run or take down the passer, he can get around the corner, as a DE he's a far more complete player than Williams.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Jan 30, 2013 at 7:39 AM ]
Agree w/Phoenix.
Fat?

  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 9,611
It will hard for us to get either Jessie Williams or Datone Jones without moving up.

The more critical need is for a DE, but critical is not always immediate. Nose tackle might be a more immediate need.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Jesse Williams is not a replacement for Justin Smith at DE. Maybe if the 49ers ran their system like the Steelers do, but that isn't case. If you are seeking to replace Justin Smith eventually, you want someone that can both stop the run AND rush the passer. Jesse Williams is an atrocious pass rusher, he was asked to hold the edge and little else. You don't replace a star DE with a generic 5-technique. You need to find someone who is also explosive, who is quick off the ball, who can get to the quarterback, who is a complete player.

The reason people want Jesse Williams at NT is simple, he's big, he's strong,he has decent athleticism for that position and he can limit teams from running up the middle, but because of his lack of pass rush ability, he simply doesn't belong on the outside on the 49ers. Justin Smith coming out of college was about 6'4" and 270, he ran a 4.6 40 and possessed tremendous strength. You don't replace a guy like that with a big, fat guy who takes up space, you need to find someone with similar explosion and athletic ability.

This is why I feel Datone Jones is far more of an ideal DE than Williams. He's got the ability, the quickness, the explosive first step, he can stop the run or take down the passer, he can get around the corner, as a DE he's a far more complete player than Williams.

All of this...
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Here is the flaw in your thinking. Why do the 49ers need a defensive end? They've got two starters, right? One of them happens to be getting up there in years, and that guy is Justin Smith. You'd like to draft an eventual replacement for Justin Smith at DE.

Jesse Williams is not a replacement for Justin Smith at DE. Maybe if the 49ers ran their system like the Steelers do, but that isn't case. If you are seeking to replace Justin Smith eventually, you want someone that can both stop the run AND rush the passer. Jesse Williams is an atrocious pass rusher, he was asked to hold the edge and little else. You don't replace a star DE with a generic 5-technique. You need to find someone who is also explosive, who is quick off the ball, who can get to the quarterback, who is a complete player.


The reason people want Jesse Williams at NT is simple, he's big, he's strong,he has decent athleticism for that position and he can limit teams from running up the middle, but because of his lack of pass rush ability, he simply doesn't belong on the outside on the 49ers. Justin Smith coming out of college was about 6'4" and 270, he ran a 4.6 40 and possessed tremendous strength. You don't replace a guy like that with a big, fat guy who takes up space, you need to find someone with similar explosion and athletic ability.

This is why I feel Datone Jones is far more of an ideal DE than Williams. He's got the ability, the quickness, the explosive first step, he can stop the run or take down the passer, he can get around the corner, as a DE he's a far more complete player than Williams.


Yeah, I'm eyeing a scheme change post-cowboy. If you have a way to get the 4th overall pick and draft another Justin smith, let me know.

With Williams, we'd look more like Baltimore Schematically, which is OK with me because its not all that different than what we run. Or the Jets -- they're set up that way too. Vic Fangio comes from the same scheme, as do the Paganos, Mattison, and the whole lot.

We have two all-pro ILBs, so I'm completely fine with a bunch of 5-technique ends. It also helps out Aldon Smith and Ahmad Brooks.

hold that edge homeboy - let the best LB corps in the NFL do its thing!
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
All of this...

If Datone Jones is as good as you guys say -- and he's Quinton Coples or better -- he's going in the top 15.

At #32, you draft guys with some limitations -- but Williams can grow into an NT down the line, which has value.

I'm kind of tired of people demanding a defensive lineman that can rush the passer in a 3-4 defense. Look, if you want a guy that can rush the passer AND hold the point of attack with a solid 5-technique, he's going in the top 10 of the draft!

And if you just want a guy that can rush the passer, might as well switch to a 4-3, or a "not really a 3-4" 3-4 defense that Wade Phillips runs.
As long as we draft D-line in the first round i will be happy. Whoever Baalke picks i will assume to be a good player and a well thought out pick. One thing we cannot continue to do is keep our stars on the field for so many plays. getting Parys Haralson back will help with the linebacker rotation and hopefelly the Fleming kid from last year will be healthy and stick there too. So getting more Dline depth is crucial. Then i'd look for another Big fast TE as i think Delanie is a goner and a Big Corner.
  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 9,611
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Jesse Williams is not a replacement for Justin Smith at DE. Maybe if the 49ers ran their system like the Steelers do, but that isn't case. If you are seeking to replace Justin Smith eventually, you want someone that can both stop the run AND rush the passer. Jesse Williams is an atrocious pass rusher, he was asked to hold the edge and little else. You don't replace a star DE with a generic 5-technique. You need to find someone who is also explosive, who is quick off the ball, who can get to the quarterback, who is a complete player.

You might be right about Williams, but I want to see how explosive and fast he is at the combine.

I will be looking at his broad jump, vertical jump, his 40, his 10 yard split and shuttle times.

His lack of sacks at Alabama could have been more a result of the scheme and less of a indication of his ability to get sacks.

At this point, I will agree that Datone Jones appears to be the best 3-4 DE prospect in the draft.
Originally posted by Mister49:
As long as we draft D-line in the first round i will be happy. Whoever Baalke picks i will assume to be a good player and a well thought out pick. One thing we cannot continue to do is keep our stars on the field for so many plays. getting Parys Haralson back will help with the linebacker rotation and hopefelly the Fleming kid from last year will be healthy and stick there too. So getting more Dline depth is crucial. Then i'd look for another Big fast TE as i think Delanie is a goner and a Big Corner.

Delanie doesn't really play tight end -- he plays h-back. And there's nobody in this year's draft with Walker's measurables (fast, wide-bodied). nobody. Jordan Reed might be the closest, but he does not have Walker's 4.5 speed.
Originally posted by buck:

At this point, I will agree that Datone Jones appears to be the best 3-4 DE prospect in the draft.

...and yet, Phoenix49ers, LasVegasWally, and others expect to draft him at #32.
Has "YOLO" tattooed on his face. Pass.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by nickbradley:
After looking through so many mocks, senior bowl coverage, scouting reports, etc, I've come to the conclusion that Alabama DL Jesse Williams is the beck pick for the 49ers.

but unlike many. I want him as a 5 technique end, not a nose tackle. His versatility, size, and experience playing at a high level makes him an ideal pick.

He might grow into a NT eventually, but that's not what I'd draft him for.

who else is with me?


Here is the flaw in your thinking. Why do the 49ers need a defensive end? They've got two starters, right? One of them happens to be getting up there in years, and that guy is Justin Smith. You'd like to draft an eventual replacement for Justin Smith at DE.

Jesse Williams is not a replacement for Justin Smith at DE. Maybe if the 49ers ran their system like the Steelers do, but that isn't case. If you are seeking to replace Justin Smith eventually, you want someone that can both stop the run AND rush the passer. Jesse Williams is an atrocious pass rusher, he was asked to hold the edge and little else. You don't replace a star DE with a generic 5-technique. You need to find someone who is also explosive, who is quick off the ball, who can get to the quarterback, who is a complete player.


The reason people want Jesse Williams at NT is simple, he's big, he's strong,he has decent athleticism for that position and he can limit teams from running up the middle, but because of his lack of pass rush ability, he simply doesn't belong on the outside on the 49ers. Justin Smith coming out of college was about 6'4" and 270, he ran a 4.6 40 and possessed tremendous strength. You don't replace a guy like that with a big, fat guy who takes up space, you need to find someone with similar explosion and athletic ability.

This is why I feel Datone Jones is far more of an ideal DE than Williams. He's got the ability, the quickness, the explosive first step, he can stop the run or take down the passer, he can get around the corner, as a DE he's a far more complete player than Williams.

Agreed with you on Williams. Not saying he is a bad player by any means, but we need more quickness and athleticism out of the DEs in our system. He can absolutely play the NT after a year of learning our system, though.

The type of ends that fit our system would be Sheldon Richardson, Shariff Floyd, Sly Williams (underrated as a DE prospect IMO), and of course, Datone Jones.

There's plenty of defensive prospects in this draft, especially at d-line and pass rushers. One of these guys (maybe except Richardson) could fall to us.