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MadDog's Niners Draft Grade and Analysis

  • AmpLee
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 16,927
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by AmpLee:
Do you deny ripping Baalke and being wrong about every transaction you ripped him on in 2011? And do you deny condescension towards those that disagreed with you in that time period?

Way too much anger, Amp. Honestly, and I say this with all sincerity, this is not healthy for anyone,

To answer your question: Sure, I ripped Baalke. Anyone can search and see this on the board. Likewise, people can see how i think quite differently today. Some may be angered today that i still think my 2011 draft is superior, since i believe Watt is going to be an all-time great and i am not as sold on Smith and CK reaching that level. Maybe I will feel differently tomorrow, or next year, or never. Too much ball to be played in the meantime.

Sure, I did not win the Webzone Barney Award for 2011. Lot of hostility thrown my way and I did not always act in my best interest or the best interest of the board. But, I have turned a new page. I am still very opinionated, that will never change, but trying to avoid pissing fights with those who are angered by my thoughts or comments,

Don't confuse my inquiry as an act of anger. I'm honestly dumbfounded how one could treat others with such condescension, then pretend it didn't happen , or worse, act like you were goaded into it by hostility. There was hostility towards you, but there were also unwarranted attacks on peoples' intelligence from you. From my point of view, people weren't angered by your thoughts, they were angered in the way you expressed your thoughts, fwiw.
Originally posted by AmpLee:
Don't confuse my inquiry as an act of anger. I'm honestly dumbfounded how one could treat others with such condescension, then pretend it didn't happen , or worse, act like you were goaded into it by hostility. There was hostility towards you, but there were also unwarranted attacks on peoples' intelligence from you. From my point of view, people weren't angered by your thoughts, they were angered in the way you expressed your thoughts, fwiw.

And I have stated that I am happy to move on from the angst of 2011. But, let's be real. Anytime you post critique of management, you are going to find some deeply offended.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by AmpLee:
Don't confuse my inquiry as an act of anger. I'm honestly dumbfounded how one could treat others with such condescension, then pretend it didn't happen , or worse, act like you were goaded into it by hostility. There was hostility towards you, but there were also unwarranted attacks on peoples' intelligence from you. From my point of view, people weren't angered by your thoughts, they were angered in the way you expressed your thoughts, fwiw.

And I have stated that I am happy to move on from the angst of 2011. But, let's be real. Anytime you post critique of management, you are going to find some deeply offended.
Please don't try to play the "victim" again. Most posters on this board don't automatically agree with everything Baalke does and only question you because you might criticize him. Most posters on this board are smart, some are extremely smart, and many are extremely knowledgeabe about NFL football.

That doesn't mean you get to unfairly (i.e., without any evidence or basis in fact) criticize Baalke without anyone questioning you. When you respond with condescension, or with a "victim" act ("you're just mad at me cause I questioned Baalke an you're a fan"), its not only irritatiing, it severely damages your credibility.

You have the ability to raise some interesting and important issues, and you don't hestitate to express your opinion. Too bad you can't seem to see things from the point of view of other posters when they question a post you might make.
  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 9,646
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by buck:
Many praised the trade at the time. However, looking back, that pick was TY Hilton, who has turned out to be a stud third rounder. The Colts got us on that one. Much like the Niners scored big in 2011, the Colts were crazy good in 2012.

Why didnt you say... many praised that trade at the time INCLUDING ME?

Of course, including me. That being said, to set the record, I was not in favor of the trade when it happened, although it appeared to be great value when it happened.

Read more at http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/nfl-draft/165469-maddogs-niners-draft-grade-analysis/page40/#jz9a6DyQLJHD649r.99

If you are showing the truth in the above interchange, it is difficult to discern.

Go back and read after thie post you linked. I readily accepted that I thought it was a good trade, and even though it would not have been my choice at the time, I thought it was a smart decision. The organization, and my judgment on the trade were both wrong, especially in the light of what the Colts got at number 92

If you are talking the truth as you claim, it would not have been necessary for an after the fact admission.

This whole draft analysis should be fun.

Your morbid fixation on being correct combined with a demeaning and arrogant attitude towards others destroys both the fun and insight you have to offer.

I apologize to any relatives of Maddog who are inclined to rush to his defense. Seriously, I do not mean to offend anyone.

I understand that Maddog, like all of us amateurs, has a tendency to wish that he were engaged in the real game.

Again, I hope not to offend any of his brothers, sisters, cousins or any relatives. If I did offend anyone, I apologize from the bottom of my heart. .

I dont even know how to respond to "demeaning and arrogant attitude". Please show me the recent post and I will apologize if it is legit. I am trying to be as polite as possible.

From recent posts in this thread.

Let's move onto football, instead of hurt feelings from 2011.

Remarks of other posters are the result of hurt feelings from what three years ago and not the result of legitimate criticisms of either of your style or of the your actual statements.

I call it like I see it, and don't really care if Baalke's feelings are hurt, or the ownership, or someone who really likes a player.

What do Baalke's feelings have to do with this forum? If you think your post actually hurt Baalke's feelings, I think you are being somewhat arrogant in your estimation of the extent and impact of your posts.

Again, you seem to be saying that opposition is driven by feelings and not logical. The implication is clear and yes, it is arrogant and demeaning.

Everyone who does this has the same issue, even the Great Baalke (unless you are personally related to him, please do not take offense. If you are related, once again, I am sorry).

This is an just another example of what I take as an arrogant and gratuitous attack on reasoning capacity of other posters. Of course, my perspective are shaped by my family ties to Baalke, and not by my ability to reason logically.

In addition, the statement seems to indicate that you think that you and the general manager of the 49ers are equivalents.

I find it arrogant for you, an amateur to assume that your should be considered equal to, in your words, the great Baalke.

for some board members to try to dismiss me as some hack because I missed on..example.. Bowman in the third round is preposterous, since you would have to dismiss all the other 31 GM's and our own for letting him slide into the third.

This seems to imply that you have been attacked for being a hack. This may have happened, I do not know, but again I do not think the majority of posters would consider you a hack. This is clearly somewhat demeaning to those of us who disagree with you and have not called you a hack.

But, the part of this quote that seems to reflect a major degree of arrogance is to dismiss all the other 31 GM's and our own.
All the 31 GM[s and our own is not bad, but all the other indicates that you consider yourself among or equal to those who do this for a living.

Given the fact, that you are but another fan, this seems seriously arrogant.

And I will give you some credit. In the same post, you did show recognition that you are not among the NFL general managers.

You went on to say
Fairness and the truth should always be at the center of critique. If I am to be attacked for the example of Bowman, the same wrath should be placed at the door of the others who do this for a living.

This recognition gives me hope that you are willing to listen to reason and could be willing to work on eliminating the arrogant and demeaning aspects of your arguments.

I am not interested in apologies. I am interested in seeing the arrogant and demeaning remarks end.

.Read more at http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/nfl-draft/165469-maddogs-niners-draft-grade-analysis/page40/#EKGlq6fSmgMfcdbQ.99
]Please don't try to play the "victim" again. Most posters on this board don't automatically agree with everything Baalke does and only question you because you might criticize him. Most posters on this board are smart, some are extremely smart, and many are extremely knowledgeabe about NFL football.

That doesn't mean you get to unfairly (i.e., without any evidence or basis in fact) criticize Baalke without anyone questioning you. When you respond with condescension, or with a "victim" act ("you're just mad at me cause I questioned Baalke an you're a fan"), its not only irritatiing, it severely damages your credibility.

You have the ability to raise some interesting and important issues, and you don't hestitate to express your opinion. Too bad you can't seem to see things from the point of view of other posters when they question a post you might make.[/

With sincerity, I encourage you to find one comment in this thread from this year that is condescending. As explained a page or is ago, I will be happy to apologize if I have offended someone. I am happy to live in the year 2013, and not in reverse. The past is the past and I have moved on.

There is no doubt a lot of intelligent posters on this board.

As for the topic of Baalke, a lot of posters surely have altered their thinking of Baalke after the 2012 draft. Before that, there were a lot of people drinking the KoolAde, thinking he could do no wrong. While people generally are willing to buy into what he is doing because he has been successful in the 2010 and 2011 draft, there has been a better sense of levelheadedness on the board, because 2012 showed that there are no geniuses in this game. Player personnel directors and GMs miss far more often than hit. The same goes for me. The draft is a humbling experience. This should not change a persons convictions or opinions, and that will never change with me,

As for victim, I simply ask for fairness. The recent round of angst began a few pages ago when a poster inaccurately stated my 2011 board, and said I was a revisionist. I had not been in conversation with him or anyone else. The truth came out, the poster apologized, and it is all good. But, this is something that I have had to deal with before, and I simply ask people to fairly and accurately post my thoughts, so we can have a fruitful discussion, rather than spending time fact checking. I don't think that is too much to ask. Nobody is playing the victim, but honesty should be at the base of all argumentation
[ Edited by MadDog49er on Sep 6, 2013 at 8:38 PM ]
Since you guys have made this personal, you should switch to PMs (Personal Message).

People come to these threads for draft analysis. Not he said, she said kindergarten bickering. It's a thread killer. The Zone would be better off without it.

And while you guys PM each other, come to some kind of compromise. Both sides need to give a little ground.
[ Edited by SofaKing on Sep 6, 2013 at 8:53 PM ]
Originally posted by buck:
From recent posts in this thread.

Let's move onto football, instead of hurt feelings from 2011.

Remarks of other posters are the result of hurt feelings from what three years ago and not the result of legitimate criticisms of either of your style or of the your actual statements.

I call it like I see it, and don't really care if Baalke's feelings are hurt, or the ownership, or someone who really likes a player.

What do Baalke's feelings have to do with this forum? If you think your post actually hurt Baalke's feelings, I think you are being somewhat arrogant in your estimation of the extent and impact of your posts.

Again, you seem to be saying that opposition is driven by feelings and not logical. The implication is clear and yes, it is arrogant and demeaning.

Everyone who does this has the same issue, even the Great Baalke (unless you are personally related to him, please do not take offense. If you are related, once again, I am sorry).

This is an just another example of what I take as an arrogant and gratuitous attack on reasoning capacity of other posters. Of course, my perspective are shaped by my family ties to Baalke, and not by my ability to reason logically.

In addition, the statement seems to indicate that you think that you and the general manager of the 49ers are equivalents.

I find it arrogant for you, an amateur to assume that your should be considered equal to, in your words, the great Baalke.

for some board members to try to dismiss me as some hack because I missed on..example.. Bowman in the third round is preposterous, since you would have to dismiss all the other 31 GM's and our own for letting him slide into the third.

This seems to imply that you have been attacked for being a hack. This may have happened, I do not know, but again I do not think the majority of posters would consider you a hack. This is clearly somewhat demeaning to those of us who disagree with you and have not called you a hack.

But, the part of this quote that seems to reflect a major degree of arrogance is to dismiss all the other 31 GM's and our own.
All the 31 GM[s and our own is not bad, but all the other indicates that you consider yourself among or equal to those who do this for a living.

Given the fact, that you are but another fan, this seems seriously arrogant.

And I will give you some credit. In the same post, you did show recognition that you are not among the NFL general managers.

You went on to say
Fairness and the truth should always be at the center of critique. If I am to be attacked for the example of Bowman, the same wrath should be placed at the door of the others who do this for a living.

This recognition gives me hope that you are willing to listen to reason and could be willing to work on eliminating the arrogant and demeaning aspects of your arguments.

I am not interested in apologies. I am interested in seeing the arrogant and demeaning remarks end.

.Read more at http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/nfl-draft/165469-maddogs-niners-draft-grade-analysis/page40/#EKGlq6fSmgMfcdbQ.99

I am really not going to please you, am I? I jest about Baalke and family (I can have a little fun at Baalke's expense, can't I? Honestly, who should be personally offended if I am not the biggest of fans). I am sincere about moving forward, you may measure me compared to Baalke in the past three drafts, compare our notes and make your own call. I think I stack up quite well, and I am not apologetic nor arrogant about it. That being said, I may deliver a clunker in 2013.

I think you often confuse my opinions with arrogance. I mean to offend none, but once again, there are some people who I will never be able to please. That is not my goal. It is to speak the truth of my convictions.
[ Edited by MadDog49er on Sep 6, 2013 at 9:01 PM ]
Originally posted by SofaKing:
Since you guys have made this personal, you should switch to PMs (Personal Message).

People come to these threads for draft analysis. Not he said, she said kindergarten bickering. It's a thread killer. The Zone would be better off without it.

And while you guys PM each other, come to some kind of compromise. Both sides need to give a little ground.

I am with you, I don't know how many times I have to say that I want to move on before each poster I offended in the past gets their shot to enter the board and share their grievances about the past. Right now, it is just wave after wave. I think I am simply going to ignore it. To me, it is getting boring.

Can we talk about football?
[ Edited by MadDog49er on Sep 6, 2013 at 9:07 PM ]
Since we are on the 2012 draft thread, here we're my selections and where they are today.

1. Konz- probably will be working with Matt Ryan the next decade. Looked good in preseason
2. Mohamed Sanu- starting for the Bengals. Foot looks in good shape. Solid receiver and blocker. Excellent redzone target. finished 2012 well before the injury. 4 TDs in last 3 games.
3. Brandon thompson- reserve DT for Bengals. Looked good in preseason but a rotational guy right now.
4. Malik Jackson- solid first game last night for the Broncos. Played about half the game. Plays the DT on passing downs, and slides back and forth from end to tackle on base downs.
5. Vick Ballard- great rookie season last year. Probably will share with Bradshaw in 2013.
6. Antonio Allen- named the starter at safety for the Jets this week. We will see,.
7. Derrius Brooks- starter...in the CFL.

Football talk...awesome
[ Edited by MadDog49er on Sep 6, 2013 at 9:18 PM ]
  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 9,646
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I am really not going to please you, am I? I jest about Baalke and family (I can have a little fun at Baalke's expense, can't I? Honestly, who should be personally offended if I am not the biggest of fans). I am sincere about moving forward, you may measure me compared to Baalke in the past three drafts, compare our notes and make your own call. I think I stack up quite well, and I am not apologetic nor arrogant about it. That being said, I may deliver a clunker in 2013.

I think you often confuse my opinions with arrogance. I mean to offend none, but once again, there are some people who I will never be able to please. That is not my goal. It is to speak the truth of my convictions.

Well, I guess not. I responded to you question.

I dont even know how to respond to "demeaning and arrogant attitude". Please show me the recent post and I will apologize if it is legit. I am trying to be as polite as possible.

You did not really respond to the points I raised, but hey it is not a big deal.

I really did not believe that you would actually respond to them. And by no means am I offended by your response. Have a good day.
Originally posted by buck:
Well, I guess not. I responded to you question.

I dont even know how to respond to "demeaning and arrogant attitude". Please show me the recent post and I will apologize if it is legit. I am trying to be as polite as possible.

You did not really respond to the points I raised, but hey it is not a big deal.

I really did not believe that you would actually respond to them. And by no means am I offended by your response. Have a good day.

Thanks? If you meant football points, please post again and I promise to respond...tomorrow. Far past my bedtime
[ Edited by MadDog49er on Sep 6, 2013 at 9:21 PM ]
  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 9,646
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by buck:
Well, I guess not. I responded to you question.

I dont even know how to respond to "demeaning and arrogant attitude". Please show me the recent post and I will apologize if it is legit. I am trying to be as polite as possible.

You did not really respond to the points I raised, but hey it is not a big deal.

I really did not believe that you would actually respond to them. And by no means am I offended by your response. Have a good day.

Thanks? If you meant football points, please post again and I promise to respond...tomorrow. Far past my bedtime

Hey. I almost missed your edit.

My points were in direct response to your post and you know my points were not about football.

Here is the post I responded to:

I dont even know how to respond to "demeaning and arrogant attitude". Please show me the recent post and I will apologize if it is legit. I am trying to be as polite as possible.

How would my response to this post be "about football points."

But, If I offended you I sincerely apologize. I did not mean to hurt your feelings.

I actually think your ideas on draft prospects are somewhat interesting and useful. I look forward to discussions of the upcoming drat.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Since we are on the 2012 draft thread, here we're my selections and where they are today.

1. Konz- probably will be working with Matt Ryan the next decade. Looked good in preseason
2. Mohamed Sanu- starting for the Bengals. Foot looks in good shape. Solid receiver and blocker. Excellent redzone target. finished 2012 well before the injury. 4 TDs in last 3 games.
3. Brandon thompson- reserve DT for Bengals. Looked good in preseason but a rotational guy right now.
4. Malik Jackson- solid first game last night for the Broncos. Played about half the game. Plays the DT on passing downs, and slides back and forth from end to tackle on base downs.
5. Vick Ballard- great rookie season last year. Probably will share with Bradshaw in 2013.
6. Antonio Allen- named the starter at safety for the Jets this week. We will see,.
7. Derrius Brooks- starter...in the CFL.

Football talk...awesome

That draft would've been nice.
Does this mean that this thread can finally move on and discuss football rather than individual posters?

How about we keep it on track? Thanks.
OK so we have MDs thoughts on here, he will not stray from his opinion, although we all know the 2011 Baalke draft was superieor...

How about lets not make MD feel like a black sheep, I along with many other posters in here I value his contributions with his boards, and analysis. Lets not run him off.