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MadDog's Niners Draft Grade and Analysis

  • dmatt
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 2,327
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I get that you wouldn't take my 2011 draft over Baalke's. How about the 2012 draft? Would you rather have:

Jenkins, James, Looney, Slowey, Robinson, Fleming, Johnson

OR

Peter Konz, Mohamed Sanu, Brandon Thompson, Malik Jackson, Vick Ballard, Antonio Allen, Darrius Brooks

I'll take yours.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by Amir:
both amp and maddog were arguing their points respectively. both posted their views, opinions and facts without any name calling.

what's the problem??

The problem is that he hops onto the board and claimed I was a liar with the "revisionist" comment. After showing him that he lied in his this "revisionist" comment with my April 1 posting, he did not take responsibility and man-up. Just say, "sorry dude, I was wrong", and move on. Still waiting.

Amp Lee, has a history of this type of behavior, intentionally misrepresenting what I say to attempt to discredit me. The mods are aware of this.

The ridiculousness of this approach is: I make tons of errors. Find the ones that are legitimate and make your case. There is no need to create a false narrative. Play fair. I don't hide my boards, play tricky games, etc. Everything is in plain sight on this board.

And with that explanation, I would rather move onto football talk.

To be fair, I backed up my opinion with evidence. Now, I admit, I did not have the evidence you pointed to as it was buried in a thread I did not look in (I only looked at two threads), but I still pulled evidence to support a fact that at one time, was your opinion. I'm man enough to admit that I did not know your opinion had changed, and my apologies regarding that, sincerely. However, I'm far from a revisionist, liar, or troll. That's just completely dishonest.

My claim has very little to do with where Gabbert or Watt was on your best player rankings, and everything to do with the fact you use Watt's success as a crutch to your 'greatness'. My gripe is that you blasted Baalke and York for every thing they did and have never admitted that you were completely wrong. In fact, now it seems that you were just combating Baalke homers, when in reality you had moved the goal posts of what a 'homer' was by spewing so much hate towards the man and our management. You were up in arms about the McDonald contract, you chastised them for letting TKO go in favor of Bowman, you ripped them for not going after Nnamdi or Carr and instead lucking out on getting the runt of the FA CB litter in Rogers, you didn't like the picks of Aldon, Kap, Culliver, or Miller, and you said we'd be more likely to go 4-12 in 2011 than 8-8 (predicting we'd win 6 games).

And it's not even the fact you were so wrong. It's that you condescended anyone who differed in opinion to you. Heck, every poster on here is wrong about things, but no one gives a damn because they don't chastise others for having a differing opinion. Here's your chance. Man up and admit you were flat out wrong about Baalke and our FO.
Originally posted by AmpLee:
To be fair, I backed up my opinion with evidence. Now, I admit, I did not have the evidence you pointed to as it was buried in a thread I did not look in (I only looked at two threads), but I still pulled evidence to support a fact that at one time, was your opinion. I'm man enough to admit that I did not know your opinion had changed, and my apologies regarding that, sincerely. However, I'm far from a revisionist, liar, or troll. That's just completely dishonest.

My claim has very little to do with where Gabbert or Watt was on your best player rankings, and everything to do with the fact you use Watt's success as a crutch to your 'greatness'. My gripe is that you blasted Baalke and York for every thing they did and have never admitted that you were completely wrong. In fact, now it seems that you were just combating Baalke homers, when in reality you had moved the goal posts of what a 'homer' was by spewing so much hate towards the man and our management. You were up in arms about the McDonald contract, you chastised them for letting TKO go in favor of Bowman, you ripped them for not going after Nnamdi or Carr and instead lucking out on getting the runt of the FA CB litter in Rogers, you didn't like the picks of Aldon, Kap, Culliver, or Miller, and you said we'd be more likely to go 4-12 in 2011 than 8-8 (predicting we'd win 6 games).

And it's not even the fact you were so wrong. It's that you condescended anyone who differed in opinion to you. Heck, every poster on here is wrong about things, but no one gives a damn because they don't chastise others for having a differing opinion. Here's your chance. Man up and admit you were flat out wrong about Baalke and our FO.

I have moved on from the past. Nobody is great, everyone is humbled by the draft. Admitted numerous times before that my initial grade for 2011 was way too harsh. You can read my comments inside numerous posts in this thread. Would still take my 2011 class, but that doesn't minimize Baalkes success in 2011.

I encourage you to move on from 2011. Trust me, I am not that evil.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by AmpLee:
To be fair, I backed up my opinion with evidence. Now, I admit, I did not have the evidence you pointed to as it was buried in a thread I did not look in (I only looked at two threads), but I still pulled evidence to support a fact that at one time, was your opinion. I'm man enough to admit that I did not know your opinion had changed, and my apologies regarding that, sincerely. However, I'm far from a revisionist, liar, or troll. That's just completely dishonest.

My claim has very little to do with where Gabbert or Watt was on your best player rankings, and everything to do with the fact you use Watt's success as a crutch to your 'greatness'. My gripe is that you blasted Baalke and York for every thing they did and have never admitted that you were completely wrong. In fact, now it seems that you were just combating Baalke homers, when in reality you had moved the goal posts of what a 'homer' was by spewing so much hate towards the man and our management. You were up in arms about the McDonald contract, you chastised them for letting TKO go in favor of Bowman, you ripped them for not going after Nnamdi or Carr and instead lucking out on getting the runt of the FA CB litter in Rogers, you didn't like the picks of Aldon, Kap, Culliver, or Miller, and you said we'd be more likely to go 4-12 in 2011 than 8-8 (predicting we'd win 6 games).

And it's not even the fact you were so wrong. It's that you condescended anyone who differed in opinion to you. Heck, every poster on here is wrong about things, but no one gives a damn because they don't chastise others for having a differing opinion. Here's your chance. Man up and admit you were flat out wrong about Baalke and our FO.

I have moved on from the past. Nobody is great, everyone is humbled by the draft. Admitted numerous times before that my initial grade for 2011 was way too harsh. You can read my comments inside numerous posts in this thread. Would still take my 2011 class, but that doesn't minimize Baalkes success in 2011.

I encourage you to move on from 2011. Trust me, I am not that evil.

My apologies. I thought I read that you were man enough to admit when you were wrong (and I'm hardly talking about the draft). I guess it's just easier to move and and pretend it never happened.
Originally posted by dmatt:
I'll take yours.

Thanks. Jackson has really looked good this preseason and Allen might just get that starting gig after the pick 6 this past week. Love Sanu and Konz should be that anchor for Ryan for the next decade. Surprised Thompson was not been better in 2012, but has been solid in camp and this past week versus Indi.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by AmpLee:
To be fair, I backed up my opinion with evidence. Now, I admit, I did not have the evidence you pointed to as it was buried in a thread I did not look in (I only looked at two threads), but I still pulled evidence to support a fact that at one time, was your opinion. I'm man enough to admit that I did not know your opinion had changed, and my apologies regarding that, sincerely. However, I'm far from a revisionist, liar, or troll. That's just completely dishonest.

My claim has very little to do with where Gabbert or Watt was on your best player rankings, and everything to do with the fact you use Watt's success as a crutch to your 'greatness'. My gripe is that you blasted Baalke and York for every thing they did and have never admitted that you were completely wrong. In fact, now it seems that you were just combating Baalke homers, when in reality you had moved the goal posts of what a 'homer' was by spewing so much hate towards the man and our management. You were up in arms about the McDonald contract, you chastised them for letting TKO go in favor of Bowman, you ripped them for not going after Nnamdi or Carr and instead lucking out on getting the runt of the FA CB litter in Rogers, you didn't like the picks of Aldon, Kap, Culliver, or Miller, and you said we'd be more likely to go 4-12 in 2011 than 8-8 (predicting we'd win 6 games).

And it's not even the fact you were so wrong. It's that you condescended anyone who differed in opinion to you. Heck, every poster on here is wrong about things, but no one gives a damn because they don't chastise others for having a differing opinion. Here's your chance. Man up and admit you were flat out wrong about Baalke and our FO.

I have moved on from the past. Nobody is great, everyone is humbled by the draft. Admitted numerous times before that my initial grade for 2011 was way too harsh. You can read my comments inside numerous posts in this thread. Would still take my 2011 class, but that doesn't minimize Baalkes success in 2011.

I encourage you to move on from 2011. Trust me, I am not that evil.

I dont think you would EVER admit that your class is inferior to Baalke's even when its obvious. I wouldnt trade Kaep straight up for Watt even if he is an awesome DE. Aldon Smith and Kaep >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Watt and anyone else on your 2011 board.

The guys you wanted in 2011 arent bad at all. But no impartial observer would say its better than the haul that Baalke brought in.
[ Edited by Ninerjohn on Sep 1, 2013 at 8:29 PM ]
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by AmpLee:
To be fair, I backed up my opinion with evidence. Now, I admit, I did not have the evidence you pointed to as it was buried in a thread I did not look in (I only looked at two threads), but I still pulled evidence to support a fact that at one time, was your opinion. I'm man enough to admit that I did not know your opinion had changed, and my apologies regarding that, sincerely. However, I'm far from a revisionist, liar, or troll. That's just completely dishonest.

My claim has very little to do with where Gabbert or Watt was on your best player rankings, and everything to do with the fact you use Watt's success as a crutch to your 'greatness'. My gripe is that you blasted Baalke and York for every thing they did and have never admitted that you were completely wrong. In fact, now it seems that you were just combating Baalke homers, when in reality you had moved the goal posts of what a 'homer' was by spewing so much hate towards the man and our management. You were up in arms about the McDonald contract, you chastised them for letting TKO go in favor of Bowman, you ripped them for not going after Nnamdi or Carr and instead lucking out on getting the runt of the FA CB litter in Rogers, you didn't like the picks of Aldon, Kap, Culliver, or Miller, and you said we'd be more likely to go 4-12 in 2011 than 8-8 (predicting we'd win 6 games).

And it's not even the fact you were so wrong. It's that you condescended anyone who differed in opinion to you. Heck, every poster on here is wrong about things, but no one gives a damn because they don't chastise others for having a differing opinion. Here's your chance. Man up and admit you were flat out wrong about Baalke and our FO.

I have moved on from the past. Nobody is great, everyone is humbled by the draft. Admitted numerous times before that my initial grade for 2011 was way too harsh. You can read my comments inside numerous posts in this thread. Would still take my 2011 class, but that doesn't minimize Baalkes success in 2011.

I encourage you to move on from 2011. Trust me, I am not that evil.

I dont think you would EVER admit that your class is inferior to Baalke's even when its obvious. I wouldnt trade Kaep straight up for Watt even if he is an awesome DE. Aldon Smith and Kaep >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Watt and anyone else on your 2011 board.

The guys you wanted in 2011 arent bad at all. But no impartial observer would say its better than the haul that Baalke brought in.

To me, this argument is feels a bit like arguing over which is better, a Lamborghini or a Ferrari. The correct answer is either.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
I dont think you would EVER admit that your class is inferior to Baalke's even when its obvious. I wouldnt trade Kaep straight up for Watt even if he is an awesome DE. Aldon Smith and Kaep >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Watt and anyone else on your 2011 board.

The guys you wanted in 2011 arent bad at all. But no impartial observer would say its better than the haul that Baalke brought in.

Ya, the inability to admit that Baalke's draft class didn't just beat MadDog's, but completely annihilated it, is cringe-worthy and indicative of how (despite his assertions to the contrary) he absolutely does not admit when he's wrong. For chrissakes, the 2nd best player in his draft was Rodney Hudson, lol. Baalke's 2nd best player (or at least the 2nd most important) was Aldon Smith. Those two drafts aren't even remotely close to each other. This is ridiculous.
MD can't be held accountable for a trade in the second round made by TB and JH. Nobody can predict trades. I love Aldon period. But the difference between him and Watt isn't just a little as many on this board are saying. Watt is the most dominant player in the NFL not named Kaep, Rodgers, Manning, or Brady. Watt is capable of LT like performances not with standing his elbow. TB got it seriously wrong on that pick.. We were lucky Aldon is as good as he is. The Giants won super bowls based on LT's performances. Triple teams free so many players up. Even Clowney isn't going to be as good as Watt, maybe equal but not better. So don't sell that Aldon is almost as good because it simply isn't true.
Originally posted by LBSI9ers:
MD can't be held accountable for a trade in the second round made by TB and JH. Nobody can predict trades. I love Aldon period. But the difference between him and Watt isn't just a little as many on this board are saying. Watt is the most dominant player in the NFL not named Kaep, Rodgers, Manning, or Brady. Watt is capable of LT like performances not with standing his elbow. TB got it seriously wrong on that pick.. We were lucky Aldon is as good as he is. The Giants won super bowls based on LT's performances. Triple teams free so many players up. Even Clowney isn't going to be as good as Watt, maybe equal but not better. So don't sell that Aldon is almost as good because it simply isn't true.

Would you take Watt over Kaep? Would you take Watt and Rodney Hudson over Kaep and Aldon?

And don't diminish what Aldon has done. He has the most sacks over the first two years in NFL history. We're not talking about some kid that's pretty good. While Watt had a historic season last year, Aldon has had a historic start to his career as well. Bottom line, while Watt would be drafted higher than Aldon in a redraft at this moment in time, you can't go wrong with either player. They both have hall-of-fame starts to their career and I would not write off Aldon as the lesser player as there is a lot of football in their tanks. Kaep would go #1 FWIW.
The 49ers 2011 draft is one of the best I have ever seen. To get a franchise qb and a franchise olb in the same draft is unthinkable. I would take aldon over watt.imo
I love me some Amp V MD debates!
Originally posted by ninerlifer:
I love me some Amp V MD debates!

It really wasn't a debate. It was a false accusation that was rectified. Nothing more than that.
[
Originally posted by outside4949:
The 49ers 2011 draft is one of the best I have ever seen. To get a franchise qb and a franchise olb in the same draft is unthinkable. I would take aldon over watt.imo

A worthy read that might change your thinking.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/01/03/2012-pff-defensive-player-of-the-year/
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
[
Originally posted by outside4949:
The 49ers 2011 draft is one of the best I have ever seen. To get a franchise qb and a franchise olb in the same draft is unthinkable. I would take aldon over watt.imo

A worthy read that might change your thinking.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/01/03/2012-pff-defensive-player-of-the-year/

It might change his mind on Aldon over Watt but it certainly wouldnt change anyones mind (other than yours perhaps) that Aldon and Kaep>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Watt and anyone else from your 2011 class.

Why dont you just admit that Baalke's 2011 draft was superior to yours. It isnt that hard to do.