MadDog's Niners Draft Grade and Analysis for 2012 NFL Draft

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Have to wait and see. Depends on the trajectory of Watt, Smith and CK. if Watt becomes the GOAT for DL ( way to early to project, but he just had the greatest single year of any DL), then you have to compare how Smith and CK develop their game, if Watt was an average to good player, it would be easy to concede. In that he has no peer amongst 34 DE, unlike peers that both Smith and CK possess, the value of what he creates for a team is huge,

In other words, compare Watt with the next best 34DE. Then, compare CK with Wilson, RGIii, Luck, Rodgers, manning, Brees, Brady, Ben, etc. This doesn't discount the talent of CK at all. It just shows a team is more likely to find a guy that fits into this group than Watt and any other 34 DE. The same applies to Smith who has a peer in Miller, someone similar in Ware, Wake, Matthews.

At this point, Watt is the only transcendent player of the three based on on the field performance and in comparison to players at the same position. In the link provided, ProFootballFocus stated that Watt had the highest grade ever given to any player at any position. He was the most dominant player in the game and that cannot be minimized.

All of this being said, it is way too early in these careers to decide which class is better. Too much football to be played, too many variables including injuries, knife fights, car crashes, DUI's, etc.

One final note: if there is one player in the league who may match Watt's dedication to the game, it may be CK. That dude loves football and wants to be great. And, we all hope he will.

I dunno MadDog, we have a pretty good 3-4 DE in Justin Smith. Watt may be the class at that position, but your post seems to indicate he has no peers. I think that's false. And yes A. Smith and Kaep aren't head and shoulders above the other best players at their respective positions, but we didn't have a franchise OLB or a franchise QB before 2011 and now we do ... we have an All-Pro DE in Justin Smith. I think for drafting for need and hitting two home runs, it was an excellent draft.

If we went MadDog's route in 2011 and took Watt, I assume we would have let Ray McDonald walk in free agency that summer (FA after draft because of lockout).

So we have 2 options:

1. J.J. Watt and Rodney Hudson

or

2. Aldon Smith, Colin Kaepernick, Ray McDonald

I'll take option 2. It's a no brainer. Watt's career projection is that of a HOFer, but so is Aldon's. Aldon has more sacks in his first 2 years than anyone in NFL history. Then Kap, a bonafide franchise QB which trumps everything else. McDonald is still one of the top 3-4 DE's in the game. Not much to debate here in my eyes.

should've traded the whole 2012 draft and taken Watt

Originally posted by jreff22:
should've traded the whole 2012 draft and taken Watt

lmao, imagine that.


Smith and Watt on the edges and Smith, bowman, brooks, and willis.


ALL TIME GREAT DEFENSE AND IT'S NOT EVEN CLOSE.

Technically we'd probably still have Alex Smith so we might still of had a franchise qb.

I don't know why anyone cares what Maddog would have done differently. You grade the draft based on how the team chose to fill needs. Maddog just falls in love with own opinions and then takes away points because he sees better value elsewhere. That's crazy. Personally I love hearing Maddog's player breakdowns but when he gets into armchair GM mode is when I start to have a problem with his analysis.

Originally posted by pdizo916:

Originally posted by jreff22:
should've traded the whole 2012 draft and taken Watt

lmao, imagine that.


Smith and Watt on the edges and Smith, bowman, brooks, and willis.


ALL TIME GREAT DEFENSE AND IT'S NOT EVEN CLOSE.

it would be the only time in history that a team decided to punt on first down every drive

I got to say to have that many players from the 11 draft class, contribute that year....Aldon, Culliver, Kendall, Miller among others contributing right away....already made that class one of the best in Niner history....

But

To get a franchise QB that same draft....MD, it's not even close. This was a draft for the ages

Been in this road before with MD.

I recall having an animated debate with him and all I asked was for him to say he was wrong about a particular pick (been so long I don't even remember who the player was). Back to the present and how many years later, I still have not seen him admit he was wrong.

Good luck to those waiting for him to say he was wrong. May he have said, "I am a man enough to admit when I am wrong," you will never see it written (typed/posted) by him.

- 98

Originally posted by AmpLee:

It's not even close. Not too mention, MD was clamoring for us to pick Gabbert, not Watt. Quite revisionist if you ask me. In fact, Gabbert was MD's 4 best player on the Niners board while Watt was 8th. MD likes to take credit for calling Watt's greatness, but he had quite a few guys ahead of him.

The above quote was what you wrote a few days ago to begin the conversation. Let's go through it step by step.

"MD was clamoring for us to pick Gabbert, not Watt"- False. My pick was Watt as shown in the draft redo thread and also on my board come draft day. You must be the only person in the world to not get this point, as people have been complimenting my selection of Watt for two years plus.

"Quite revisionist if you ask me"- The translation is that I lied about the selection of Watt. This was not true then, and not true now. You accused me of being a liar, and I don't lie.

"In fact, Gabbert was MD's 4 best player on the Niners board while Watt was 8th"- I have already pointed our earlier in this thread, and showed the link, that this was my board on January 3, well before the draft, and showed an April thread where I have Watt before Gabbert and had Watt at number 5 on my board, which is where Watt would have fallen on my draf when the team was on the clock.

"MD likes to take credit for calling Watt's greatness, but he had a few guys ahead of him"- I had him at 5, after Green, Peterson, Miller, and Dareus. The first three are ProBowlers, and Dareus is a solid. Name someone who had Watt higher on their board than I did. Name someone who had Watt as the selection. Few to none.

Review: you enter the board and take a number of cheap shots, full of lies and distortion. I then have to spend my time to reveal one by one the lies you presented, by digging through the board and posting links showing what I wrote. In the end, you are shocked that I would actually be offended. How would you feel if someone came onto the board and posted a series of lies and distortions about your previous posts and thoughts? Have you no shame,

Originally posted by kidash98:

Been in this road before with MD.

I recall having an animated debate with him and all I asked was for him to say he was wrong about a particular pick (been so long I don't even remember who the player was). Back to the present and how many years later, I still have not seen him admit he was wrong.

Good luck to those waiting for him to say he was wrong. May he have said, "I am a man enough to admit when I am wrong," you will never see it written (typed/posted) by him.

- 98

This is foolishness and you know it. As a mod you should know better. This "you will never see it written by him" is another lying cheap shot. I have been wrong on many occasions and have admitted it many times. I have done this before, but I guess I have to do this again. Short list:
I was wrong about Ahmed Brooks turning his life around and being a productive player in the NFL. I was wrong in my assessment that Blaine Gabbert was the best QB in the 2012 draft class. I was wrong about Ray McDonald not lasting more than four years in the NFL due to previous knee surgeries in college. I was wrong about Alex Boone being able to effectively slide int the inside. I was wrong about having AJ Jenkins on my best 50 board at number 48. I have admitted probably a dozen times or more now that the 2011 draft class as better than I originally thought. THIS IS A FRICKEN SHORT LIST.

When a person makes hundreds of calls each year, in player rankings, player personnel decisions, etc, you are going to make a LOT of mistakes. EVERYBODY DOES. If you have read any of the pages from 33 on, I have stated almost to the point of vomiting, that all people, including myself make tons of errors. Please go back and read. Post 503, 543 as a starting list

If you can remember the player, please let me know. In the meantime, why don't you read what I write instead of instigating with lies, which is against the board rules.

Originally posted by LA9erFan:
A franchise QB is more valuable than the best 3-4 DE in the game, and it's not even close, even if that franchise QB has "peers".

And then when you toss in Aldon Smith, Chris Culliver, Kendall Hunter, Bruce Miller, etc. versus Rodney Hudson, Vick Ballard, Marcus Cannon, & Co, and it's an absolutely landslide.

LMAO

Did maddog really say that you have to compare them to their peers? hahahha

a franchise QB is a franchise QB. simple as that. you take one over ANY and EVERY other position on the field.

Hey guys calm your tits

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by kidash98:

Been in this road before with MD.

I recall having an animated debate with him and all I asked was for him to say he was wrong about a particular pick (been so long I don't even remember who the player was). Back to the present and how many years later, I still have not seen him admit he was wrong.

Good luck to those waiting for him to say he was wrong. May he have said, "I am a man enough to admit when I am wrong," you will never see it written (typed/posted) by him.

- 98

This is foolishness and you know it. As a mod you should know better. This "you will never see it written by him" is another lying cheap shot. I have been wrong on many occasions and have admitted it many times. I have done this before, but I guess I have to do this again. Short list:
I was wrong about Ahmed Brooks turning his life around and being a productive player in the NFL. I was wrong in my assessment that Blaine Gabbert was the best QB in the 2012 draft class. I was wrong about Ray McDonald not lasting more than four years in the NFL due to previous knee surgeries in college. I was wrong about Alex Boone being able to effectively slide int the inside. I was wrong about having AJ Jenkins on my best 50 board at number 48. I have admitted probably a dozen times or more now that the 2011 draft class as better than I originally thought. THIS IS A FRICKEN SHORT LIST.

When a person makes hundreds of calls each year, in player rankings, player personnel decisions, etc, you are going to make a LOT of mistakes. EVERYBODY DOES. If you have read any of the pages from 33 on, I have stated almost to the point of vomiting, that all people, including myself make tons of errors. Please go back and read. Post 503, 543 as a starting list

If you can remember the player, please let me know. In the meantime, why don't you read what I write instead of instigating with lies, which is against the board rules.

Instigating with lies? You're a funny guy! I'm not the only one to point out your flaws. Not just about draft picks but especially in the manner in which you belittle those who disagree with you.

Part of the reason I have not chimed in one of your thread for so long is how you talk and squirm your way out of your own predictions. As stated, the way you belittle those who goes against your picks.

Part of my responsibility as a Mod IS TO READ WHAT'S POSTED. All the people going against you in this thread is basically saying the same thing yet you choose to ignore it: to be able to man up when you're wrong and to do it in a civil fashion. Granted, you admitted that you were wrong with some players you listed above, and for that I applaud you. But how long did that take you to admit????

No one predicting the draft is 100% correct ever, we all know that. It's when you talk down on people and rub them the wrong way that I've always and will have issues. Case in point re the last few pages: we are still waiting to see you post that you were wrong in your assessment with Balke's 2011 draft. Up to now you still won't get off your high horse and admit that Balke did a hell of a job with those picks, only to throw the subject/conversation to his 2012 picks when that's not even the question raised. You tend to deflect the actual question to something else!

Personally, I think the fact that you were once written up by Barrows got to your head, that you think you're better than a lot of the posters in here. I can admit, to a point, that you do a damn good job with your draft board. It's your interaction with the denizens of this place that I have issues with.

Have some humble pie once in a while. It's actually a good thing and a lot of us would respect you more if you do.

- 98

Wow..got pretty heated in here lol

I can vouch that MD wanted us to take Watt over Gabbert. MD was higher on Watt than any other draft pundit that I can remember, "pounding the table" for us to take him so to speak. True, he though Gabbert was the best QB in the draft. I don't want to speak for him, but I was under the impression that he would have Watt go to the 49ers even if Gabbert was on the board.

You may not agree with MadDog's opinions on the 2011 draft (I don't), but don't make it personal. Nobody likes to be called a liar, and MD leaves all his posts out in the open for everyone to see. He does good work, and the draft war room wouldn't be nearly as good or informative without his contributions.

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Wow..got pretty heated in here lol

I can vouch that MD wanted us to take Watt over Gabbert. MD was higher on Watt than any other draft pundit that I can remember, "pounding the table" for us to take him so to speak. True, he though Gabbert was the best QB in the draft. I don't want to speak for him, but I was under the impression that he would have Watt go to the 49ers even if Gabbert was on the board.

You may not agree with MadDog's opinions on the 2011 draft (I don't), but don't make it personal. Nobody likes to be called a liar, and MD leaves all his posts out in the open for everyone to see. He does good work, and the draft war room wouldn't be nearly as good or informative without his contributions.

Just to be clear, I think this goes beyond draft picks. It's how he interact with the posters of this place I have issues with.

- 98