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MadDog's Niners Draft Grade and Analysis

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
Originally posted by AmpLee:
BS. I'm disagreeing with him. I'm still allowed to do that, right?

no but the interchange in the last page is done nothing more than to provoke MD IMO

Its not about exchanging opinions IMO

Stating my opinion is me just stating my opinion, no need to look for motives that don't exist. If a poster wants to pat themselves on the back, I have every right to insert my opinion.

Further, if what you are saying is true, then I can just as easily claim that all you ever do in response to my posts is trolling as well.
  • Amir
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 25,858
both amp and maddog were arguing their points respectively. both posted their views, opinions and facts without any name calling.

what's the problem??
It's really OTC and Phoenix or bust for draft reviews. Been that way for some time.
Originally posted by Amir:
both amp and maddog were arguing their points respectively. both posted their views, opinions and facts without any name calling.

what's the problem??

Try reading the posts. Sorry but you are mistaken .
Originally posted by AmpLee:
Originally posted by English:
Lets turn down the heat in here. When it gets personal, things get unpleasant. I don't care how right you think you are and how wrong the other guy is.

Stop.

Calm down. No one stepped over the line and a post hasn't been made since yesterday. No need to remind others of your presence.

"Liar and troll"?

This board isn't subject to immediate modding. We pick things up when we see them. And regarding reminding others of our presence, it needs doing on occasions.
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by AmpLee:
Originally posted by English:
Lets turn down the heat in here. When it gets personal, things get unpleasant. I don't care how right you think you are and how wrong the other guy is.

Stop.

Calm down. No one stepped over the line and a post hasn't been made since yesterday. No need to remind others of your presence.

"Liar and troll"?

This board isn't subject to immediate modding. We pick things up when we see them. And regarding reminding others of our presence, it needs doing on occasions.

To be fair, he said, "stop making up lies and trolling". A statement perfectly within the rules, albeit a statement that was wholly incorrect.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Maddog gets a F for his evaluation of the 2011 draft. He gave the Niners a C-. Sorry but any draft that got Kaep and Aldon Smith is an A+. Two of the most dynamic and explosive young players in the NFL right now.

Would you take my 2012 draft class over Baalke's?

Im talking about the 2011 draft class. And I wouldnt take yours.
Originally posted by Amir:
both amp and maddog were arguing their points respectively. both posted their views, opinions and facts without any name calling.

what's the problem??

The problem is that he hops onto the board and claimed I was a liar with the "revisionist" comment. After showing him that he lied in his this "revisionist" comment with my April 1 posting, he did not take responsibility and man-up. Just say, "sorry dude, I was wrong", and move on. Still waiting.

Amp Lee, has a history of this type of behavior, intentionally misrepresenting what I say to attempt to discredit me. The mods are aware of this.

The ridiculousness of this approach is: I make tons of errors. Find the ones that are legitimate and make your case. There is no need to create a false narrative. Play fair. I don't hide my boards, play tricky games, etc. Everything is in plain sight on this board.

And with that explanation, I would rather move onto football talk.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Im talking about the 2011 draft class. And I wouldnt take yours.

I get that you wouldn't take my 2011 draft over Baalke's. How about the 2012 draft? Would you rather have:

Jenkins, James, Looney, Slowey, Robinson, Fleming, Johnson

OR

Peter Konz, Mohamed Sanu, Brandon Thompson, Malik Jackson, Vick Ballard, Antonio Allen, Darrius Brooks
I for one enjoy the insight MadDog and I think that you were dead on in some instances BUT as of today I kind of like Baalke's 2011 draft and I can only wish he has more like it. 2012 was a bummer but I do think we sort of paid some of the draft capital forward to 2013 where we potentially may have had a pretty good draft. Like the old saying "you get what you pay for". I see that for 2014 we have significant draft capital as well and I expect us to have a chance to do really well again. Keep doing what you do because without it things would be dull around here. You do a hell of a lot better than I would at this!
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Im talking about the 2011 draft class. And I wouldnt take yours.

I get that you wouldn't take my 2011 draft over Baalke's. How about the 2012 draft? Would you rather have:

Jenkins, James, Looney, Slowey, Robinson, Fleming, Johnson

OR

Peter Konz, Mohamed Sanu, Brandon Thompson, Malik Jackson, Vick Ballard, Antonio Allen, Darrius Brooks

Sure. Any of us could have done better than Baalke did in 2012. I know I was unhappy when Jenkins and James were our first 2 picks. It was simply a bad draft. But, 2010 and 2011 are wins for Baalke and I think 2013 will be as well.
Originally posted by Pillbusta:
I for one enjoy the insight MadDog and I think that you were dead on in some instances BUT as of today I kind of like Baalke's 2011 draft and I can only wish he has more like it. 2012 was a bummer but I do think we sort of paid some of the draft capital forward to 2013 where we potentially may have had a pretty good draft. Like the old saying "you get what you pay for". I see that for 2014 we have significant draft capital as well and I expect us to have a chance to do really well again. Keep doing what you do because without it things would be dull around here. You do a hell of a lot better than I would at this!

Thanks. One note about the 2012 not talked about often. Baalke traded with the Colts, dealing our third rounder to them in 2012, the 92nd overall selection. Many praised the trade at the time. However, looking back, that pick was TY Hilton, who has turned out to be a stud third rounder. The Colts got us on that one. Much like the Niners scored big in 2011, the Colts were crazy good in 2012.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Here is a copy of my 2011 draft that was in a draft redo thread:
1- JJ Watt, DE, Wisconsin Simply the best player on the board at the time. Since Franklin appears to be leaving, moving Soap to NT would necessitate a new DE to take over right away.
2- Rodney Hudson, G/C, Florida State I think Hudson is the best OL in the entire draft, and is a starter at guard or center.
3- Curtis Brown, CB, Texas The team needs a cover corner, and Brown has size and speed.
4- Jordan Todman, RB, UConn I graded Todman just slightly over Hunter, who I really like as well. Both are great value picks at this point.
4- Marcus Cannon, G, TCU Since the Niners have a second fourth rounder, this can be a luxury pick. I'd burn it on a risk. Cannon is a starter at guard some time in the future if he can survive cancer and regain his strength. Worth the risk in the fourth round.
5- Tyrod Taylor, QB, Virginia Tech The Niners need QB depth, and while no one expects Taylor to be a future starter, he can be a solid backup if the starter goes down for a short time.
6- Charles Clay, FB, Tulsa A FB who can run and catch the ball. Sounds like a WCO fullback to me.
6- Justin Rogers, CB, Richmond Team needs a second corner in this draft, and Rogers had a terrific career and offseason.
6- Jerrell Powe, NT, Mississippi Simply a backup, toilet clogger. Every 3-4 team needs one.
7- Ugo Chinasa, OLB, Oklahoma St Was not drafted, but a quick, strong guy who could develop into a nice role player
. 7- Jeron Johnson, S, Boise St Also not drafted, but a talented, fast guy who has a ton of experience.
7- Dane Sanzenbacher, WR, Ohio St Competition for Williams in the slot. Sanzenbacher was a seriously clutch WR for the Buckeyes. Cheers. [ Edited by MadDog49er on May 21, 2011 at 8:19 PM ]
Read more at http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/nfl-draft/154846-you-could-redo-one-49ers-pick-would-take/#vrwqUZ324cIjUE6b.99

The only player not in the league after cuts is Chinasa.
1. Watt is a monster
2. Hudson starts at center for KC
3. Brown is a reserve CB but may be the best special teamer for the Steelers. Bit of a disappointment at CB
4. Todman backs up Drew-jones in Jax. Had a great preseason
4. Cannon fighting for starting RG spot with NE
5. Taylor backs up Flacco for Balt
6. Clay starting TE for Dolphins
6. Rogers might start for Buffalo in Week one at CB
6. Powe is reserve DT
7. Chinasa out of league
7. Johnson top reserve safety for Seahawks and special teams star
7. Sanzenbacher made the cut for the Bengals at WR.

Ve

Excellent overall draft class (might have 4 or 5 opening day starters this year) with depth (5 of my 6 players in the 6th and 7th rounders still in the league and on a 53 man roster...this is nearly impossible in year 3) made spectacular with Watt, who may be the best player in the game. Baalke had a great draft. People can debate which group they like better, although it is still early in everyone's career to make a final grade.

MD, this is the sort of thing that grates at folks, because your remarks here is so slanted toward exhibiting your "rightness". Neither Marcus Cannon nor Justin Rogers are projected to be starters. Charles Clay is the "starter" in Miami because Dustin Keller shredded his knee. He's nowhere near being a starting caliber TE, he's merely the first guy that's getting a crack at the job, and his performance in that role has left a lot to be desired thus far.

As of today, your hypothetical draft has yielded 2 starting caliber players, not 5. One stone-cold superstar (Watt), and one starting OL who earned the starting gig in KC last year and then got hurt. (Hudson) He's hardly distinguished himself as a bonafide, starting quality in the NFL. The rest of this draft consists of backups and ST contributors. Is one superstar, one starter, and a bunch of 2nd stringers considered to be a good draft going into Year 3?
[ Edited by LA9erFan on Sep 1, 2013 at 7:01 PM ]
  • dmatt
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 2,326
Originally posted by joey82:
If you are going to give a guy s**t when he gets it wrong you can at least give him props when he gets it right. He was right on N. Davis, Rachal and Mays just for example.

I appreciate the time you put into this draft to share your thoughts and I realize that your opinions are just that opinions.

Originally posted by joey82:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Coming from the guy who wanted JJ Watt over Aldon Smith, yeah, lost your credibility a long time ago. D's and F's for the first 2 picks? lmao

If you are going to give a guy s**t when he gets it wrong you can at least give him props when he gets it right. He was right on N. Davis, Rachal and Mays just for example.

I appreciate the time you put into this draft to share your thoughts and I realize that your opinions are just that opinions.
I'd take JJ Watt right there with Aldon. I don't see that you could knock someone for preferring Watt.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Sure. Any of us could have done better than Baalke did in 2012. I know I was unhappy when Jenkins and James were our first 2 picks. It was simply a bad draft. But, 2010 and 2011 are wins for Baalke and I think 2013 will be as well.

2010 was a good draft. Baalke did well with three of his first four picks. He selected Davis, Iupati, and Bowman. He missed badly with second rounder Taylor Mays.
In my draft, I had Iupati, Dez Bryant and Morgan Burnett. I missed badly with third rounder Akwasi Owusu Ansah.

People can determine which draft they liked better between the two. Here was my board going into the draft, copied from April 2010. Wierd seeing Aaron Hernandez at 44. Yikes!!!


With the draft only one week away, I wanted to reveal my draft board, if put in the position of GM's for this 2010 draft.

As you all know, when creating draft boards, teams can use various strategies. They may create a best player avaliable (BPA) board: stack their players based on how they rank overall, and draft in that order, regardless of position. The Rams did this years ago by selecting Steven Jackson, even though Marshall Faulk was a star for the team. It was a head scratcher then, but makes perfect sense now.

Other teams downgrade players from positions of less importance to the team, or due to a strong depth chart in that position, and create a needs-based board. Or, in the case of Dez Bryant, the riskiness of a player's off the field actions may move them slightly, or dramatically, down a draft board (in my opinion, Bryant is the fourth best player in the entire draft, but I have stacked him lower due to character concerns).

Finally, teams rarely draft players who do not fit their schemes. That is why I don't even stack Sean Weatherspoon, Daryl Washington, Brian Price, and others on this board. And, why I have players who may, or may not, fit our scheme, such as Derrick Morgan, stacked lower than expected. These players present a greater risk than others who fit the scheme, but do pose value later in the draft as someone who may be able to transition successfully (if they magically fall that low).

There are pros and cons to a BPA approach and a needs-based approach. I tend to lean toward the best player available, regardless of position. However, I do make exceptions. I do not feel Bryan Bulaga is the 15th best overall player, but move him slightly higher on my board due to the critical team need, someone who can pass block.

Undoubtably, there will be surprises in this draft board. I have not been ashamed to trumpet the skills of Mike Iupati, Eric Berry and Akwasi Owusu-Ansah. I think Iupati is a future Pro-Bowl star. I also think that Eric Berry is the best player in the draft, and the one that will make the most impact in the league. To me, Owusu-Ansah is a terrific player, and someone who will surprise in this league. And, I really respect two safeties who would present a major upgrade for the team, if on the board at number 49: Nate Allen and Morgan Burnett.

On the flip side, I am highly skeptical toward Taylor Mays, Patrick Robinson and Tim Tebow. I see major flaws in each of their games that will be highly problematic in the NFL. I could write a dissertation on Mays, who I have have never liked as an NFL player (feel free to read my posts from two years ago).

Have fun, and feel free to ask questions, rip me for being an idiot, etc.
I will be posting a new Big 255 Board this weekend.

Cheers.


MadDog's 49ers Draft Board- Stacking the Top 50 Players

Board Rank Name Position
1 Eric Berry S
2 Ndamukong Suh DT/DE
3 Russell Okung OT
4 CJ Spiller RB
5 Sam Bradford QB
6 Gerald McCoy DT/DE
7 Joe Haden CB
8 Mike Iupati G/OT
9 Brandon Graham OLB
10 Dez Bryant WR
11 Trent Williams OT
12 Anthony Davis OT
13 Charles Brown OT
14 Maurkice Pouncey C/G
15 Bryan Bulaga OT
16 Kyle Wilson CB
17 Earl Thomas CB/S
18 Dan Williams NT
19 Jared Odrick DE
20 Ryan Matthews RB
21 Rolando McClain LB
22 Bruce Campbell OT
23 Rodger Saffold OT
24 Nate Allen S
25 Morgan Burnett S
26 Devin McCourty CB
27 Akwasi Owusu-Ansah CB/S
28 Arrelious Benn WR
29 Sergio Kindle OLB
30 Jason Pierre-Paul OLB
31 Jerry Hughes OLB
32 John Jerry G/OT
33 Jahvid Best RB
34 Golden Tate WR
35 Jon Asamoah G
36 Jason Worilds OLB
37 Everson Griffen OLB
38 Derrick Morgan OLB/DE
39 Jimmy Clausen QB
40 Chad Jones S
41 Jermaine Gresham TE
42 Dexter McCluster RB
43 Vladimir Ducasse OT
44 Aaron Hernandez TE
45 Jared Veldheer OT
46 Koa Misi OLB
47 Demaryius Thomas WR
48 Kareem Jackson CB
49 Terrence Cody NT
50 Thaddeus Gibson OLB
[ Edited by MadDog49er on Apr 22, 2010 at 6:51 PM ]