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Fleener v. Konz: The Battle for my Bandwagon Patronage

First off guys, I want to level with all of you and let you know that WR is *not* a first round priority anymore with the signing of Manningham. We are not going to draft a WR in the first round and see him not even suit up on most games as the #5 or #6 WR. Second round is even questionable at this point. So, its down to filling right guard or drafting best player available/playmaker.

I've gone back and forth on this, and I've come to the conclusion that we will not and should not take yet another offensive lineman in the first round. We have taken FOUR OL in the first two rounds in the past 5 years...wow (Iupati, Davis, Rachal, Staley)! Five in the past seven years. That's way too much invested into a single unit, and we will be perfectly fine with a competition between Kilgore and a veteran Free Agent (Schwartz or Davis). Not having a second pro-bowl guard is not the end of the world.

So that leaves us with BPA. In my mind, I've often said that Konz could be the BPA pick if he's there, but its unlikely he would be...and if he was he would just be a guard for a year or two until he takes Goodwin's job. So what else is BPA there?

Looking at the mock drafts out there, I expect the "big board" on NFL Network and ESPN to be littered with defensive backs at the end of the first round. (Un)fortunately, we are loaded in the secondary, unless we want to draft Mark Barron and waive goodbye to Goldson after the 2012 season (or Whitner in 2013) -- neither of those options are appealing, but are a possibility. Defensive Line and linebacker are pretty strong in the late first and throughout the second round, but we don't need *any* LBs, and you're better off getting more value at #62 for DL.

So what do we do? Well, we draft Coby Fleener, that's what we do. The 6-6 250 pound tight end has all the tools to be a dominant pass-catching tight end in the NFL. He plays fast, has excellent hands, runs great routes, and is improving on his blocking abilities. He can fake out LBs and Safeties covering him in the seam and get wide open. And most importantly, *** he already knows the 49er playbook. As a result, he will be an impact rookie and make a difference in 2012.

* Also keep in mind that Delanie Walker is a free agent after the 2012 season, and probably will land a starting job somewhere else. Davis and Fleener would be locked up through 2015.

So, who's with me?

30. Coby Fleener, TE, Stanford, 6-6, 247 lbs - For all the reasons mentioned above and more, Fleener is the BPA pick here.

62. Alameda Ta'amu, NT, Washington 6-3, 348 lbs - Soap and RJF are free agents after 2012, and Alameda can be an all-pro with the right coaching. Some think he's a boom-bust pick, but I think his floor is as a rotational D-Lineman and his ceiling is at the all-pro level. Our coaching staff will get the most out of him, and he will rotate in slowly over his first two years.

93. Tommy Streeter, WR, Miami - Streeter has failed to go up in mock drafts since the combine, and he looks like a 3rd or 4th orund pick right now. Randy Moss measurables (6-5 220, 4.4. speed) but incredibly raw. Probably won't play a whole lot as a rookie, but that's OK -- he'll learn a lot and be ready to go in 2013 after a year sitting behind Moss.

125. Jamell Fleming, CB, Oklahoma - Depth in the Secondary, somebody to develop in case Tarell Brown leaves in Free Agency after 2013.

157. Hebron Fangupo, DT/NT, BYU - Dude is a total badass that nobody has really noticed, for some reason. Will be a great guy to put in the rotation. Also, Soap and RJF are free agents after the 2012 season.

190. Scott Wedige, C, Northern Illinois - a nice C/OG to develop over time to take over for Goodwin in a few years.

220. T-Bob Hebert, C/G, LSU - Son of QB Bobby Hebert, the Cajun Cannon. Good Center/Guard prospect from LSU that has ran into a couple off the field problems and has never seemed to fully apply himself.
i agree
in round 2 i would go G though

before FA (before moss and mannigham) i was completely against the luxiry pick of fleener but now i think he would be a great pickup (unless hill wright or floyd is on the board got to take them)

in 2nd i would go G only cause that is the alst piece of the puzzle and our only ? going into next season
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
in round 2 i would go G though

before FA (before moss and mannigham) i was completely against the luxiry pick of fleener but now i think he would be a great pickup (unless hill wright or floyd is on the board got to take them)

in 2nd i would go G only cause that is the alst piece of the puzzle and our only ? going into next season

What's wrong with Kilgore?
Originally posted by nickbradley:
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
in round 2 i would go G though

before FA (before moss and mannigham) i was completely against the luxiry pick of fleener but now i think he would be a great pickup (unless hill wright or floyd is on the board got to take them)

in 2nd i would go G only cause that is the alst piece of the puzzle and our only ? going into next season

What's wrong with Kilgore?
Nothing. People are sleeping on him.
First off guys, I want to level with all of you and let you know that WR is *not* a first round priority anymore with the signing of Manningham. We are not going to draft a WR in the first round and see him not even suit up on most games as the #5 or #6 WR. Second round is even questionable at this point. So, its down to filling right guard or drafting best player available/playmaker.
Mannignham is a solid #2 and Crabs isn't a number 1 at all. So I don't know how you figure that if we draft a WR in the 1st he's going to be #5 or #6 on our roster. We aren't exactly stacked at that postion. And I have NEVER been on this TE-in-the-1st thing. Drafting a guy in the 1st round who has no chance on starting so long as #85 is on the roster (year one or two) isn't good draft management. "BPA" in the 1st round should never apply so long as you have a glaring need. I don't care what his measurables are, he will never be a starter for the 49ers as long Vernon Davis is. On the one hand you say don't draft a WR in the 1st because he won't play on a team that needs a #1 WR, yet on the other hand you say draft a guy in the first who has absolutely no chance of starting on a team that is pretty stable at his position.
I am on board. For once I sooooooooo badly want the Niners to grab the webzone crush. I kind of think more people on the zone like Hill better but I think Fleener has a big following. I just like Fleener because Alex loves throwing to a TE. It keeps the passes much shorter for Alex and gives him another big target to hit and always keeps the game right in front of him. Streeter as well would be good to sit and learn but come in in key situations this year.
Im fine with that, I dont think WR in the 1st is a need anymore. I like what we have done in FA. IF Fleener and Konz are gone by the time we pick at 30 I think Baalke tries to trade out of the 1 st round


Crabtree, Manningham, Moss, VD, Fleener on the field at the same time in the redzone
I've been on the Fleener bandwagon for awhile now, just imagine what Harbaugh could do with the 2 and 3 TE formations, it would totally enhance our playbook and be a nightmare for opposing teams to prepare for
You have two NT's in the draft?? Using a 2nd round pick on a boom or bust candidate (reeks of Kentwan Balmer) just needs right coaching??

Fleener in round 1 is great.

BPA between WR and RB or OG/C round 2

Best WR/RB/OG/S/OLB/DE round 3.
Originally posted by 9erred:
You have two NT's in the draft?? Using a 2nd round pick on a boom or bust candidate (reeks of Kentwan Balmer) just needs right coaching??

Fleener in round 1 is great.

BPA between WR and RB or OG/C round 2

Best WR/RB/OG/S/OLB/DE round 3.

Have to agree with these points... I like the players you took for the most part but I think the Niners will definitely draft a RB....possibly as high as round 2 and not lower than round 4.
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
First off guys, I want to level with all of you and let you know that WR is *not* a first round priority anymore with the signing of Manningham. We are not going to draft a WR in the first round and see him not even suit up on most games as the #5 or #6 WR. Second round is even questionable at this point. So, its down to filling right guard or drafting best player available/playmaker.
Mannignham is a solid #2 and Crabs isn't a number 1 at all. So I don't know how you figure that if we draft a WR in the 1st he's going to be #5 or #6 on our roster. We aren't exactly stacked at that postion. And I have NEVER been on this TE-in-the-1st thing. Drafting a guy in the 1st round who has no chance on starting so long as #85 is on the roster (year one or two) isn't good draft management. "BPA" in the 1st round should never apply so long as you have a glaring need. I don't care what his measurables are, he will never be a starter for the 49ers as long Vernon Davis is. On the one hand you say don't draft a WR in the 1st because he won't play on a team that needs a #1 WR, yet on the other hand you say draft a guy in the first who has absolutely no chance of starting on a team that is pretty stable at his position.

Clearly, you haven't thought this through.

- Crabtree can definitely be a #1-type WR. Looking at Footballoutsiders.com, Crabtree improved dramatically from 2010 to 2011, after an even bigger improvement from 2009 to 2010. Extrapolating the trend, he should be a top 15 WR in 2012.

- Manningham - had a terrible 2011 season, to be honest. but he had a phenomenal 2010, 16th best WR in the NFL. He was the 33rd best WR in 2009. His % of passes caught when targeted in 2011 was only 51%, after a great 65% in 2010 and 58% in 2009. Expect him to bounce back.

- Everyone is hating on Kyle Williams, but the dude put up borderline #1-level productivity numbers on a per-play basis...on par with Myles Austin or Torrey Smith. That's why I think everyone on Webzone who is hating on him is a fool.

So, what we have here are two potential #1s, an aged #1 that is probably a #2 now in Moss, and an explosive, efficient Kyle Williams.

On to TE:

- VD had an OK 2011 after a monster 2009 and 2010. However, Delanie Walker was not that good, to be honest, the past three seasons. DVOA of -7% in 2011, 0.3% in 2010, and a horrid -20% in 2009. Totally and utterly replaceable. Plus, we run 3 TE sets and Walker is a free agent.


*** finally, Fleener would be the #2 tight end in 2012, unless Walker stepped up his game.
Originally posted by 9erred:
You have two NT's in the draft?? Using a 2nd round pick on a boom or bust candidate (reeks of Kentwan Balmer) just needs right coaching??

Fleener in round 1 is great.

BPA between WR and RB or OG/C round 2

Best WR/RB/OG/S/OLB/DE round 3.

Fangupo and Alameda can both play 3-4 DE as well.