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MAV MOCK! Pre-combine v1.0

Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by 9erred:
I love the idea of another stud TE, but I think the team is too thin at other positions to draft a TE with a round 1 pick. If the Niners get a TE I would see them letting Delanie Walker go, he counts 1.9 million against the cap, you cannot have so much money invested in the TE position. Bynham would be #3 TE.
delante is better than byham

he can play WR great blocker and a good TE


My point is you have the salary cap. I am aware Delanie is better than Bynam, however you cannot pay 9 million a year to VD, 2 million to Delanie, and another 2 million to Fleener. 13 million in cap space for TE's or 11% is not doable. This is why I do not want Fleener, the financial impact and lack of playing time does not make sense.
Originally posted by 9erred:
My point is you have the salary cap. I am aware Delanie is better than Bynam, however you cannot pay 9 million a year to VD, 2 million to Delanie, and another 2 million to Fleener. 13 million in cap space for TE's or 11% is not doable. This is why I do not want Fleener, the financial impact and lack of playing time does not make sense.

I see where your coming from. But I think what myself and maybe some other posters are saying is we're gonna add an extra TE in place of a WR. IMO it doesn't matter what position a player is but as long as he can open up the offense. I'm also not very comfortable with the WR's that will probably be available at pick 30.
Originally posted by mavfd9er:
I see where your coming from. But I think what myself and maybe some other posters are saying is we're gonna add an extra TE in place of a WR. IMO it doesn't matter what position a player is but as long as he can open up the offense. I'm also not very comfortable with the WR's that will probably be available at pick 30.

Case in point right there, after the top 3 go (Blackmon, Floyd, and Wright) their is a significant increase in bust potential and reeks of a need pick rather than BPA... we would also be getting at best the 4th rated WR compared to Fleener who is arguably the #1 TE.

Due to the horrible history of WR's drafted in the first round, taking Fleener and moving Walker to H-back adds more to this offense than any WR available at 30. Norris will not be on the team next year, give his roster spot to Walker, bring in Fleener as the #3 TE. Walker no longer would hit the TE salary bucket, and if Miller gets hurt both Walker and Byham can fill in capably at FB while still allowing for 2TE packages.
I like the draft.. I'd however keep Snyder, and say hell no to Mike Adams in FA (when he played for us, he missed tackles, got burned, and straight armed off the field). I like the Fleener pick, but I'd love the pick if we moved either Delaine Walker or Nate Bynam to a FB/H-Back/TE roll. That way we'd have all our play makers on the field at the same time, and it'd bolster the ST's as well..
Originally posted by 5280High:
Originally posted by mavfd9er:
I see where your coming from. But I think what myself and maybe some other posters are saying is we're gonna add an extra TE in place of a WR. IMO it doesn't matter what position a player is but as long as he can open up the offense. I'm also not very comfortable with the WR's that will probably be available at pick 30.

Case in point right there, after the top 3 go (Blackmon, Floyd, and Wright) there is a significant increase in bust potential and if the team chose a WR at 30, it would reek of a need pick rather than BPA... We would be getting at best the 4th rated WR compared to Fleener, who is arguably the #1 TE.

Due to the horrible history of WR's drafted in the first round, taking Fleener and moving Walker to H-back adds more to this offense than any WR available at 30. Norris will not be on the team next year so give his roster spot to Walker and bring in Fleener as the #3 TE. Walker no longer would hit the TE salary bucket, and if Miller gets hurt, both Walker and Byham can fill in capably at FB while still allowing for 2TE packages.

Yet another great rationale for picking Fleener. It just makes sense on so many levels. It would make the entire offense stronger because...

1) The running game gets a boost due to standard double TE sets for better overall blocking and more versatile play calling.
2) The opposing defense would be at a great disadvantage trying to account for both Vernon Davis and Fleener.....both being huge receiving threats (see NE Pats and NO Saints this season).
3) Fleener already knows the offense so would hit the ground running and contribute immediately (unlike the vast majority of rookie WRs)
4) The team adds depth at FB and HB by moving Walker, who is an undersized TE, to a position more fitting to his size and skill set.
5) Since both TEs would be receiving threats, it is unlikely any of the WRs will draw double coverage, allowing them to make more plays.

Yes, Virginia....we have found a solution to the Niners' offensive offense....and his name is Fleener.

Cheers!
[ Edited by nw9erfan on Feb 15, 2012 at 12:14 AM ]
Originally posted by 9erred:
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by 9erred:
I love the idea of another stud TE, but I think the team is too thin at other positions to draft a TE with a round 1 pick. If the Niners get a TE I would see them letting Delanie Walker go, he counts 1.9 million against the cap, you cannot have so much money invested in the TE position. Bynham would be #3 TE.
delante is better than byham

he can play WR great blocker and a good TE


My point is you have the salary cap. I am aware Delanie is better than Bynam, however you cannot pay 9 million a year to VD, 2 million to Delanie, and another 2 million to Fleener. 13 million in cap space for TE's or 11% is not doable. This is why I do not want Fleener, the financial impact and lack of playing time does not make sense.

The advantage is that top TE's are cheaper than top WR's. So for the long haul, they cost less than WR's.

The problem I have, is the idea that we can somehow fix our offense with three top notch pass catching TE's, but not with the two we already have. Somehow, the third TE puts us over the top?

We have had the most talented TE core in the league for years, and now that Brady put's up huge numbers to his TE's, all-of-a-sudden we have a TE deficiency???
Originally posted by nw9erfan:
Originally posted by 5280High:
Originally posted by mavfd9er:
I see where your coming from. But I think what myself and maybe some other posters are saying is we're gonna add an extra TE in place of a WR. IMO it doesn't matter what position a player is but as long as he can open up the offense. I'm also not very comfortable with the WR's that will probably be available at pick 30.

Case in point right there, after the top 3 go (Blackmon, Floyd, and Wright) there is a significant increase in bust potential and if the team chose a WR at 30, it would reek of a need pick rather than BPA... We would be getting at best the 4th rated WR compared to Fleener, who is arguably the #1 TE.

Due to the horrible history of WR's drafted in the first round, taking Fleener and moving Walker to H-back adds more to this offense than any WR available at 30. Norris will not be on the team next year so give his roster spot to Walker and bring in Fleener as the #3 TE. Walker no longer would hit the TE salary bucket, and if Miller gets hurt, both Walker and Byham can fill in capably at FB while still allowing for 2TE packages.

Yet another great rationale for picking Fleener. It just makes sense on so many levels. It would make the entire offense stronger because...

1) The running game gets a boost due to standard double TE sets for better overall blocking and more versatile play calling.
2) The opposing defense would be at a great disadvantage trying to account for both Vernon Davis and Fleener.....both being huge receiving threats (see NE Pats and NO Saints this season).
3) Fleener already knows the offense so would hit the ground running and contribute immediately (unlike the vast majority of rookie WRs)
4) The team adds depth at FB and HB by moving Walker, who is an undersized TE, to a position more fitting to his size and skill set.
5) Since both TEs would be receiving threats, it is unlikely any of the WRs will draw double coverage, allowing them to make more plays.

Yes, Virginia....we have found a solution to the Niners' offensive offense....and his name is Fleener.

Cheers!

I also love this thinking.
I like the draft but my only problem with alot of the mocks I'm seeing is the plan to replace Brooks at OLB with a rookie. Not only a rookie but a 2nd round rookie. If Aldon Smith didn't start as a rookie I dont see any way a second round OLB can fill that void either. Brooks better be signed! We're already thin at OLB and Haralson blows. There is no way we can fill the void of losing a starter through the draft. Not for next season at least.
Originally posted by 5280High:
Originally posted by mavfd9er:
I see where your coming from. But I think what myself and maybe some other posters are saying is we're gonna add an extra TE in place of a WR. IMO it doesn't matter what position a player is but as long as he can open up the offense. I'm also not very comfortable with the WR's that will probably be available at pick 30.

Case in point right there, after the top 3 go (Blackmon, Floyd, and Wright) their is a significant increase in bust potential and reeks of a need pick rather than BPA... we would also be getting at best the 4th rated WR compared to Fleener who is arguably the #1 TE.

Due to the horrible history of WR's drafted in the first round, taking Fleener and moving Walker to H-back adds more to this offense than any WR available at 30. Norris will not be on the team next year, give his roster spot to Walker, bring in Fleener as the #3 TE. Walker no longer would hit the TE salary bucket, and if Miller gets hurt both Walker and Byham can fill in capably at FB while still allowing for 2TE packages.

Every body seems to think that Fleener will be there at 30. This is a copycat league and TE is becoming the celebrity position. How is the No. 1 TE falling to 30 when a lot of teams need a No. 1 TE and a lot more teams will be willing to go with 2 stud TEs after watching what the Patriots did this year? Fleener will likely be gone by the late teens assuming he runs as fast at the combine as he is projected to.
Originally posted by midrdan:
Every body seems to think that Fleener will be there at 30. This is a copycat league and TE is becoming the celebrity position. How is the No. 1 TE falling to 30 when a lot of teams need a No. 1 TE and a lot more teams will be willing to go with 2 stud TEs after watching what the Patriots did this year? Fleener will likely be gone by the late teens assuming he runs as fast at the combine as he is projected to.

I agree with you in thinking he wont be there but would love to have him if he fell to us over any WR after the top 3.

Its a copycat league but everyones got a different scouting department some scouting sights like Dwayne Allen (6'4, 255) over Fleener so depending on how things fall on the first day, Fleener could easily land in our laps depending on how many teams go after TE's in the first and have Fleener as their top guy on the board.
Originally posted by NinerG94:
I like the draft but my only problem with alot of the mocks I'm seeing is the plan to replace Brooks at OLB with a rookie. Not only a rookie but a 2nd round rookie. If Aldon Smith didn't start as a rookie I dont see any way a second round OLB can fill that void either. Brooks better be signed! We're already thin at OLB and Haralson blows. There is no way we can fill the void of losing a starter through the draft. Not for next season at least.

As I mentioned in an earlier post my way of thinking in regards to Brooks has come full circle. He must be retained and if that costs us Carlos Rodgers then so be it. I would then like to see us draft a project OLB in rounds 5-7. I'm going to create another mock after the combine and that change will be reflected.


Originally posted by BrianGO:
The advantage is that top TE's are cheaper than top WR's. So for the long haul, they cost less than WR's.

The problem I have, is the idea that we can somehow fix our offense with three top notch pass catching TE's, but not with the two we already have. Somehow, the third TE puts us over the top?

We have had the most talented TE core in the league for years, and now that Brady put's up huge numbers to his TE's, all-of-a-sudden we have a TE deficiency???

The logic I'm working with is that Harbaugh likes to use 3 TE sets within his offense. To me it appears to be his own version of a power west coast offense. I believe we were very effective with our 2 TE's this year. But part of "fixing" our offense is to simply give Harbaugh the tools to run his scheme. Fleener appears to be one of the few missing pieces.
Originally posted by mavfd9er:
As I mentioned in an earlier post my way of thinking in regards to Brooks has come full circle. He must be retained and if that costs us Carlos Rodgers then so be it. I would then like to see us draft a project OLB in rounds 5-7. I'm going to create another mock after the combine and that change will be reflected.



The logic I'm working with is that Harbaugh likes to use 3 TE sets within his offense. To me it appears to be his own version of a power west coast offense. I believe we were very effective with our 2 TE's this year. But part of "fixing" our offense is to simply give Harbaugh the tools to run his scheme. Fleener appears to be one of the few missing pieces.

Thats really all it comes down to... Would Harbaugh value Fleener over a guy like Randle, Sanu or Jeffry. I think he would based on our present conservative approach. Also, look our QB is more comfortable throwing to TE's which gives them more value.
Originally posted by 5280High:
Originally posted by mavfd9er:
As I mentioned in an earlier post my way of thinking in regards to Brooks has come full circle. He must be retained and if that costs us Carlos Rodgers then so be it. I would then like to see us draft a project OLB in rounds 5-7. I'm going to create another mock after the combine and that change will be reflected.



The logic I'm working with is that Harbaugh likes to use 3 TE sets within his offense. To me it appears to be his own version of a power west coast offense. I believe we were very effective with our 2 TE's this year. But part of "fixing" our offense is to simply give Harbaugh the tools to run his scheme. Fleener appears to be one of the few missing pieces.

Thats really all it comes down to... Would Harbaugh value Fleener over a guy like Randle, Sanu or Jeffry. I think he would based on our present conservative approach. Also, look our QB is more comfortable throwing to TE's which gives them more value.

Agree. Our quarterback is way more comfortable throwing to TE's than WR's. In my opinion Fleener is a better pass catching TE than Walker is and would be more dynamic opposite or lined beside Davis on the field.
Originally posted by midrdan:
Every body seems to think that Fleener will be there at 30. This is a copycat league and TE is becoming the celebrity position. How is the No. 1 TE falling to 30 when a lot of teams need a No. 1 TE and a lot more teams will be willing to go with 2 stud TEs after watching what the Patriots did this year? Fleener will likely be gone by the late teens assuming he runs as fast at the combine as he is projected to.

Just heard Matt Mayock on a conference call saying that he doesn't have a single TE in this draft with a first round grade. Just saying.

Now....the likely reason for this is that this draft is just loaded with excellent DT, WR, and interior OL prospects...so it is these guys that are pushing down other prospects who would have been considered number one draft picks in other years.

The point being that with so many good linemen available in the first round, teams are more likely to grab those guys rather than a TE who grades out at the end of the first round.

Cheers!
[ Edited by nw9erfan on Feb 15, 2012 at 7:29 PM ]
Originally posted by tohara3:
Agree. Our quarterback is way more comfortable throwing to TE's than WR's. In my opinion Fleener is a better pass catching TE than Walker is and would be more dynamic opposite or lined beside Davis on the field.

.....in my opinion, that is not an opinion but a cold, hard fact. ....and it really isn't even debatable...

Cheers!