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MadDog's Final Wrap Up Grade for Niners

to the original poster, gabbert is an awful prospect. 30 percent completion percentage on throws over 10 yards. Wow. Impressive. You want a guy who checks down more in college than Alex Smith does in the NFL?
Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Can of worms!! I raise the question, what would you prefer, Patrick Peterson or Aldon Smith and Chris Culliver?
this...yes, i'm serious about that (though i'm drinking my third beer right now). a shutdown-cb is useless when a good qb can avoid him successfully.
i prefer a potential pass-rusher and a potential fs/cb over pp. TWO options for two problems is stil better than one option for two problems.
Originally posted by communist:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Can of worms!! I raise the question, what would you prefer, Patrick Peterson or Aldon Smith and Chris Culliver?
this...yes, i'm serious about that (though i'm drinking my third beer right now). a shutdown-cb is useless when a good qb can avoid him successfully.
i prefer a potential pass-rusher and a potential fs/cb over pp. TWO options for two problems is stil better than one option for two problems.

yup, see Steelers: Pittsburgh for proof. and New England Patriots as a team WITH corners who still suck against the pass because they have no pass rush. It all starts with stopping the run and rushing the passer.
or ask champ bailey, asomugha (at least in some cases) and joe haden.

dont get me wrong...i would think about a pp-draft if he were available at our spot...stop, i wouldnt even think about that. i would get him.
but giving up a third-rounder, which i could use for pass-rush upgrade and move up for a cb in the top10? no way...
yes, it is a pass-first league. but the pass defense begins in the trenches and is decided by your olbs first.

[ Edited by communist on May 3, 2011 at 18:23:26 ]
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by Kalen49ers:
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by Kalen49ers:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by communist:
Originally posted by Hitman49:
Keapernick > Dalton

I'd give that pick a B+
kaep seems to be the bigger project...the issue that should count in, if someone grades a pick, is "could we get the certain player at all?".
i heard that we needed a qb and we wanted to get dalton...but it seems like nobody wanted to draft for a normal price. so we went to the second-best. still better than nothing. job done.

No where in the post draft did I read we wanted Dalton, did the camera that was in the niners board room show them disappointed when he cam off the board-no. From all indications before and after the draft the niners wanted Kaep. They could have taken Gabbert, but Harbaugh didn't feel like Gabbert as the man. As far as evaluating talent, I'll side with Harbaugh over Maddog (no offense) and I am glad we didn't take him.

As for Smith, Smith played all over. Only straight line speed? Did you see the video where he ran down and caught Kaep himself on one play and batted down a Kaep pass on another (and Kaeps not a short QB). Athletic is not only about strength and speed, it is about instincts too. Strength? It doesn't apply doing a rip move, or hand thrust. Speed, technique, and leverage does. Haven't we learned that judging a player solely by combine numbers is futile? Give me quickness over speed. Smith has it!

I didn't see Harbaugh's reaction to the Dalton pick, but here is a possibility of his thoughts, based on what has happened in the past. After the Bengals selected Dalton at 36, the Niners quickly trade up to get Kaepernick at 37. Does this mean that he believed Kaepernick was going to go soon before the 45th pick? Or does it mean that the Niners only had two top QB's left on their board, and they were waiting for the first to be selected before making a move upward? Or does it mean that they hoped Dalton would fall to them, but then had to make a quick trade to secure the next QB on their board? We will probably never know.

What I said before the draft is that the Niners would be better off bypassing the QB position entirely until the mid-late rounds, and see if Harbaugh could make something work with Alex Smith. He already trusted Smith would be on the roster by preparing to hand him the playbook, so he was confident he would be on the team.

So, what happens if the still young, and still talented Alex Smith begins to develop? The tools are all there, better than any QB in this draft. It is matter of putting it all together, and having confidence in himself. What happens to Kaepernick if Smith does develop and move into the top 15 QB's in the league in 2011? He finished the season really well, and is slated to be the starter anyways.

To me, the Niners may have found best value in trading up to five and grabbing Peterson....if the Cards were willing to make that deal. Most teams do not mind trading down. It would have cost us a third rounder, and we would have secured the top CB in the draft at the most valuable position this team needs right now.

Can of worms!! I raise the question, what would you prefer, Patrick Peterson or Aldon Smith and Chris Culliver?


its a valid question if he establishes himself as a top 15 qb this year we should definitally sign him for another year and if he does good again i say we franchise him

Harbaugh is not a miracle worker. Have we all not seen enough of Alex Smith yet?

Rolling to the right and throwing ball away, throwing bullets to guys less than 5 yards away, missing wide open targets (Norris week 1 remember?), overthrowing short out routes. I can understand if we keep Alex and he plays while Kaepernick sits and learns. But Alex won't ever be a franchise tag kind of guy.

im not saying when it happens its if


and i think its possible granted the last time alex had an offensive HC was college he owned

Being the 15th best QB is absolutely Alex's ceiling. We've seen this guy for 6 years. He is what he is.
Originally posted by communist:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Can of worms!! I raise the question, what would you prefer, Patrick Peterson or Aldon Smith and Chris Culliver?
this...yes, i'm serious about that (though i'm drinking my third beer right now). a shutdown-cb is useless when a good qb can avoid him successfully.
i prefer a potential pass-rusher and a potential fs/cb over pp. TWO options for two problems is stil better than one option for two problems.

Thinking back I remember too often the opposing QB just sitting back there all day. No CB would succeed in the defense we had. Not Revis, not Asomugha.
Originally posted by Kalen49ers:
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by Kalen49ers:
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by Kalen49ers:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by communist:
Originally posted by Hitman49:
Keapernick > Dalton

I'd give that pick a B+
kaep seems to be the bigger project...the issue that should count in, if someone grades a pick, is "could we get the certain player at all?".
i heard that we needed a qb and we wanted to get dalton...but it seems like nobody wanted to draft for a normal price. so we went to the second-best. still better than nothing. job done.

No where in the post draft did I read we wanted Dalton, did the camera that was in the niners board room show them disappointed when he cam off the board-no. From all indications before and after the draft the niners wanted Kaep. They could have taken Gabbert, but Harbaugh didn't feel like Gabbert as the man. As far as evaluating talent, I'll side with Harbaugh over Maddog (no offense) and I am glad we didn't take him.

As for Smith, Smith played all over. Only straight line speed? Did you see the video where he ran down and caught Kaep himself on one play and batted down a Kaep pass on another (and Kaeps not a short QB). Athletic is not only about strength and speed, it is about instincts too. Strength? It doesn't apply doing a rip move, or hand thrust. Speed, technique, and leverage does. Haven't we learned that judging a player solely by combine numbers is futile? Give me quickness over speed. Smith has it!

I didn't see Harbaugh's reaction to the Dalton pick, but here is a possibility of his thoughts, based on what has happened in the past. After the Bengals selected Dalton at 36, the Niners quickly trade up to get Kaepernick at 37. Does this mean that he believed Kaepernick was going to go soon before the 45th pick? Or does it mean that the Niners only had two top QB's left on their board, and they were waiting for the first to be selected before making a move upward? Or does it mean that they hoped Dalton would fall to them, but then had to make a quick trade to secure the next QB on their board? We will probably never know.

What I said before the draft is that the Niners would be better off bypassing the QB position entirely until the mid-late rounds, and see if Harbaugh could make something work with Alex Smith. He already trusted Smith would be on the roster by preparing to hand him the playbook, so he was confident he would be on the team.

So, what happens if the still young, and still talented Alex Smith begins to develop? The tools are all there, better than any QB in this draft. It is matter of putting it all together, and having confidence in himself. What happens to Kaepernick if Smith does develop and move into the top 15 QB's in the league in 2011? He finished the season really well, and is slated to be the starter anyways.

To me, the Niners may have found best value in trading up to five and grabbing Peterson....if the Cards were willing to make that deal. Most teams do not mind trading down. It would have cost us a third rounder, and we would have secured the top CB in the draft at the most valuable position this team needs right now.

Can of worms!! I raise the question, what would you prefer, Patrick Peterson or Aldon Smith and Chris Culliver?


its a valid question if he establishes himself as a top 15 qb this year we should definitally sign him for another year and if he does good again i say we franchise him

Harbaugh is not a miracle worker. Have we all not seen enough of Alex Smith yet?

Rolling to the right and throwing ball away, throwing bullets to guys less than 5 yards away, missing wide open targets (Norris week 1 remember?), overthrowing short out routes. I can understand if we keep Alex and he plays while Kaepernick sits and learns. But Alex won't ever be a franchise tag kind of guy.

im not saying when it happens its if


and i think its possible granted the last time alex had an offensive HC was college he owned

Being the 15th best QB is absolutely Alex's ceiling. We've seen this guy for 6 years. He is what he is.

hes been around top 20 around 18 and 19 range for the last 2 years and that was with sing and raye running the offense

its not impossible to see a big increase with harbaugh calling the shots
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by Kalen49ers:
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by Kalen49ers:
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by Kalen49ers:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by communist:
Originally posted by Hitman49:
Keapernick > Dalton

I'd give that pick a B+
kaep seems to be the bigger project...the issue that should count in, if someone grades a pick, is "could we get the certain player at all?".
i heard that we needed a qb and we wanted to get dalton...but it seems like nobody wanted to draft for a normal price. so we went to the second-best. still better than nothing. job done.

No where in the post draft did I read we wanted Dalton, did the camera that was in the niners board room show them disappointed when he cam off the board-no. From all indications before and after the draft the niners wanted Kaep. They could have taken Gabbert, but Harbaugh didn't feel like Gabbert as the man. As far as evaluating talent, I'll side with Harbaugh over Maddog (no offense) and I am glad we didn't take him.

As for Smith, Smith played all over. Only straight line speed? Did you see the video where he ran down and caught Kaep himself on one play and batted down a Kaep pass on another (and Kaeps not a short QB). Athletic is not only about strength and speed, it is about instincts too. Strength? It doesn't apply doing a rip move, or hand thrust. Speed, technique, and leverage does. Haven't we learned that judging a player solely by combine numbers is futile? Give me quickness over speed. Smith has it!

I didn't see Harbaugh's reaction to the Dalton pick, but here is a possibility of his thoughts, based on what has happened in the past. After the Bengals selected Dalton at 36, the Niners quickly trade up to get Kaepernick at 37. Does this mean that he believed Kaepernick was going to go soon before the 45th pick? Or does it mean that the Niners only had two top QB's left on their board, and they were waiting for the first to be selected before making a move upward? Or does it mean that they hoped Dalton would fall to them, but then had to make a quick trade to secure the next QB on their board? We will probably never know.

What I said before the draft is that the Niners would be better off bypassing the QB position entirely until the mid-late rounds, and see if Harbaugh could make something work with Alex Smith. He already trusted Smith would be on the roster by preparing to hand him the playbook, so he was confident he would be on the team.

So, what happens if the still young, and still talented Alex Smith begins to develop? The tools are all there, better than any QB in this draft. It is matter of putting it all together, and having confidence in himself. What happens to Kaepernick if Smith does develop and move into the top 15 QB's in the league in 2011? He finished the season really well, and is slated to be the starter anyways.

To me, the Niners may have found best value in trading up to five and grabbing Peterson....if the Cards were willing to make that deal. Most teams do not mind trading down. It would have cost us a third rounder, and we would have secured the top CB in the draft at the most valuable position this team needs right now.

Can of worms!! I raise the question, what would you prefer, Patrick Peterson or Aldon Smith and Chris Culliver?


its a valid question if he establishes himself as a top 15 qb this year we should definitally sign him for another year and if he does good again i say we franchise him

Harbaugh is not a miracle worker. Have we all not seen enough of Alex Smith yet?

Rolling to the right and throwing ball away, throwing bullets to guys less than 5 yards away, missing wide open targets (Norris week 1 remember?), overthrowing short out routes. I can understand if we keep Alex and he plays while Kaepernick sits and learns. But Alex won't ever be a franchise tag kind of guy.

im not saying when it happens its if


and i think its possible granted the last time alex had an offensive HC was college he owned

Being the 15th best QB is absolutely Alex's ceiling. We've seen this guy for 6 years. He is what he is.

hes been around top 20 around 18 and 19 range for the last 2 years and that was with sing and raye running the offense

its not impossible to see a big increase with harbaugh calling the shots

19th in 2009 and 21st last year in QB rating. I can see Alex improving, but only to get to maybe 15th.
u dont have to quote the full post...especially if its right above your own. THANKS.

[ Edited by communist on May 3, 2011 at 18:43:08 ]
  • dwett
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 640
Originally posted by Kalen49ers:
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by Kalen49ers:
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by Kalen49ers:
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by Kalen49ers:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by communist:
Originally posted by Hitman49:
Keapernick > Dalton

I'd give that pick a B+
kaep seems to be the bigger project...the issue that should count in, if someone grades a pick, is "could we get the certain player at all?".
i heard that we needed a qb and we wanted to get dalton...but it seems like nobody wanted to draft for a normal price. so we went to the second-best. still better than nothing. job done.

No where in the post draft did I read we wanted Dalton, did the camera that was in the niners board room show them disappointed when he cam off the board-no. From all indications before and after the draft the niners wanted Kaep. They could have taken Gabbert, but Harbaugh didn't feel like Gabbert as the man. As far as evaluating talent, I'll side with Harbaugh over Maddog (no offense) and I am glad we didn't take him.

As for Smith, Smith played all over. Only straight line speed? Did you see the video where he ran down and caught Kaep himself on one play and batted down a Kaep pass on another (and Kaeps not a short QB). Athletic is not only about strength and speed, it is about instincts too. Strength? It doesn't apply doing a rip move, or hand thrust. Speed, technique, and leverage does. Haven't we learned that judging a player solely by combine numbers is futile? Give me quickness over speed. Smith has it!

I didn't see Harbaugh's reaction to the Dalton pick, but here is a possibility of his thoughts, based on what has happened in the past. After the Bengals selected Dalton at 36, the Niners quickly trade up to get Kaepernick at 37. Does this mean that he believed Kaepernick was going to go soon before the 45th pick? Or does it mean that the Niners only had two top QB's left on their board, and they were waiting for the first to be selected before making a move upward? Or does it mean that they hoped Dalton would fall to them, but then had to make a quick trade to secure the next QB on their board? We will probably never know.

What I said before the draft is that the Niners would be better off bypassing the QB position entirely until the mid-late rounds, and see if Harbaugh could make something work with Alex Smith. He already trusted Smith would be on the roster by preparing to hand him the playbook, so he was confident he would be on the team.

So, what happens if the still young, and still talented Alex Smith begins to develop? The tools are all there, better than any QB in this draft. It is matter of putting it all together, and having confidence in himself. What happens to Kaepernick if Smith does develop and move into the top 15 QB's in the league in 2011? He finished the season really well, and is slated to be the starter anyways.

To me, the Niners may have found best value in trading up to five and grabbing Peterson....if the Cards were willing to make that deal. Most teams do not mind trading down. It would have cost us a third rounder, and we would have secured the top CB in the draft at the most valuable position this team needs right now.

Can of worms!! I raise the question, what would you prefer, Patrick Peterson or Aldon Smith and Chris Culliver?


its a valid question if he establishes himself as a top 15 qb this year we should definitally sign him for another year and if he does good again i say we franchise him

Harbaugh is not a miracle worker. Have we all not seen enough of Alex Smith yet?

Rolling to the right and throwing ball away, throwing bullets to guys less than 5 yards away, missing wide open targets (Norris week 1 remember?), overthrowing short out routes. I can understand if we keep Alex and he plays while Kaepernick sits and learns. But Alex won't ever be a franchise tag kind of guy.

im not saying when it happens its if


and i think its possible granted the last time alex had an offensive HC was college he owned

Being the 15th best QB is absolutely Alex's ceiling. We've seen this guy for 6 years. He is what he is.

hes been around top 20 around 18 and 19 range for the last 2 years and that was with sing and raye running the offense

its not impossible to see a big increase with harbaugh calling the shots

19th in 2009 and 21st last year in QB rating. I can see Alex improving, but only to get to maybe 15th.

Well if that's the case we needed to address our QB situation so drafting Kaep in the 2nd does not seem like a bad idea to me. It is all going to matter on how our coaching staff develops our players. I still feel this is the key to the niners success going forward.
Originally posted by jojomellon:
to the original poster, gabbert is an awful prospect. 30 percent completion percentage on throws over 10 yards. Wow. Impressive. You want a guy who checks down more in college than Alex Smith does in the NFL?

I heard he was captain check down last year
Kalen49ers, burn in hell.

[ Edited by communist on May 3, 2011 at 18:54:17 ]
Originally posted by communist:
Kalen49ers, burn in hell.

I would also go with Smith/Culliver over PP any day.

I would not given up a lot to move up a few slots for just a CB. Any team, knowing Peterson is an all star in the making, would of wanted a 2nd and maybe a 4th to move up, buts thats just my opinion.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by communist:
Originally posted by Hitman49:
Keapernick > Dalton

I'd give that pick a B+
kaep seems to be the bigger project...the issue that should count in, if someone grades a pick, is "could we get the certain player at all?".
i heard that we needed a qb and we wanted to get dalton...but it seems like nobody wanted to draft for a normal price. so we went to the second-best. still better than nothing. job done.

No where in the post draft did I read we wanted Dalton, did the camera that was in the niners board room show them disappointed when he cam off the board-no. From all indications before and after the draft the niners wanted Kaep. They could have taken Gabbert, but Harbaugh didn't feel like Gabbert as the man. As far as evaluating talent, I'll side with Harbaugh over Maddog (no offense) and I am glad we didn't take him.

As for Smith, Smith played all over. Only straight line speed? Did you see the video where he ran down and caught Kaep himself on one play and batted down a Kaep pass on another (and Kaeps not a short QB). Athletic is not only about strength and speed, it is about instincts too. Strength? It doesn't apply doing a rip move, or hand thrust. Speed, technique, and leverage does. Haven't we learned that judging a player solely by combine numbers is futile? Give me quickness over speed. Smith has it!

Can of worms!! I raise the question, what would you prefer, Patrick Peterson or Aldon Smith and Chris Culliver?

I would of like to have drafted Peterson, Kap, and Houston...but we would of lost our 2nd in that trade and wouldn't of been able to move up to the top of the 3rd for Houston.

You seem more pessimistic this year then previous years MD.