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MadDog's Final Wrap Up Grade for Niners

Originally posted by communist:
Originally posted by Hitman49:
Keapernick > Dalton

I'd give that pick a B+
kaep seems to be the bigger project...the issue that should count in, if someone grades a pick, is "could we get the certain player at all?".
i heard that we needed a qb and we wanted to get dalton...but it seems like nobody wanted to draft for a normal price. so we went to the second-best. still better than nothing. job done.

No where in the post draft did I read we wanted Dalton, did the camera that was in the niners board room show them disappointed when he cam off the board-no. From all indications before and after the draft the niners wanted Kaep. They could have taken Gabbert, but Harbaugh didn't feel like Gabbert as the man. As far as evaluating talent, I'll side with Harbaugh over Maddog (no offense) and I am glad we didn't take him.

As for Smith, Smith played all over. Only straight line speed? Did you see the video where he ran down and caught Kaep himself on one play and batted down a Kaep pass on another (and Kaeps not a short QB). Athletic is not only about strength and speed, it is about instincts too. Strength? It doesn't apply doing a rip move, or hand thrust. Speed, technique, and leverage does. Haven't we learned that judging a player solely by combine numbers is futile? Give me quickness over speed. Smith has it!
  • dwett
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 629
MadDog first I want to say thank you for all your hard work that you did with information you gave us throughout this draft process. I can't disagree with your grade assessment.

I feel the Niners were very gutsy with this draft in the fact they looked at a players potential. This point sticks out with the first three pick. All have amazing ability but do have issues that need to be corrected. Our coaching staff has their hands full but can make this draft be a successful one.

My main concern is the lock out. These players need attention and need it now if we want to be successful in 2011. I am scared we might not see any development until mid season of next year which will be to late.

Hope I am wrong and the NFL get a deal done soon because we are one of the teams that needs it most.
This draft definitely has major boom or bust potential. In 3 years we look back and either or .

IF Kaepernick becomes a franchise QB this draft automatically is a win.
It confuses me why we wanna make Bruce Miller a FB. In one of the threads it shows the numbers of all the rookies for sacks per game and tackles for loss per game and i believe Aldon Smith was #1 in both and Miller was top 10 in both
Originally posted by hofer36:
Maddog you lost all credibility with me not having curtis holcombe on your big board..........sheesh

I will try harder...I promise.

P.S. Holcomb probably wouldn't have made my Big 500 board.
Originally posted by Kalen49ers:
This draft definitely has major boom or bust potential. In 3 years we look back and either or .

IF Kaepernick becomes a franchise QB this draft automatically is a win.

Agreed. I hope I am wrong.
I think Kaepernick can play year 2. If Tebow can play his rookie year then Kaepernick can play year 2

[ Edited by Kalen49ers on May 3, 2011 at 17:42:09 ]
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by communist:
Originally posted by Hitman49:
Keapernick > Dalton

I'd give that pick a B+
kaep seems to be the bigger project...the issue that should count in, if someone grades a pick, is "could we get the certain player at all?".
i heard that we needed a qb and we wanted to get dalton...but it seems like nobody wanted to draft for a normal price. so we went to the second-best. still better than nothing. job done.

No where in the post draft did I read we wanted Dalton, did the camera that was in the niners board room show them disappointed when he cam off the board-no. From all indications before and after the draft the niners wanted Kaep. They could have taken Gabbert, but Harbaugh didn't feel like Gabbert as the man. As far as evaluating talent, I'll side with Harbaugh over Maddog (no offense) and I am glad we didn't take him.

As for Smith, Smith played all over. Only straight line speed? Did you see the video where he ran down and caught Kaep himself on one play and batted down a Kaep pass on another (and Kaeps not a short QB). Athletic is not only about strength and speed, it is about instincts too. Strength? It doesn't apply doing a rip move, or hand thrust. Speed, technique, and leverage does. Haven't we learned that judging a player solely by combine numbers is futile? Give me quickness over speed. Smith has it!

I didn't see Harbaugh's reaction to the Dalton pick, but here is a possibility of his thoughts, based on what has happened in the past. After the Bengals selected Dalton at 36, the Niners quickly trade up to get Kaepernick at 37. Does this mean that he believed Kaepernick was going to go soon before the 45th pick? Or does it mean that the Niners only had two top QB's left on their board, and they were waiting for the first to be selected before making a move upward? Or does it mean that they hoped Dalton would fall to them, but then had to make a quick trade to secure the next QB on their board? We will probably never know.

What I said before the draft is that the Niners would be better off bypassing the QB position entirely until the mid-late rounds, and see if Harbaugh could make something work with Alex Smith. He already trusted Smith would be on the roster by preparing to hand him the playbook, so he was confident he would be on the team.

So, what happens if the still young, and still talented Alex Smith begins to develop? The tools are all there, better than any QB in this draft. It is matter of putting it all together, and having confidence in himself. What happens to Kaepernick if Smith does develop and move into the top 15 QB's in the league in 2011? He finished the season really well, and is slated to be the starter anyways.

To me, the Niners may have found best value in trading up to five and grabbing Peterson....if the Cards were willing to make that deal. Most teams do not mind trading down. It would have cost us a third rounder, and we would have secured the top CB in the draft at the most valuable position this team needs right now.

Can of worms!! I raise the question, what would you prefer, Patrick Peterson or Aldon Smith and Chris Culliver?

[ Edited by MadDog49er on May 3, 2011 at 17:51:56 ]
  • dwett
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 629
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by communist:
Originally posted by Hitman49:
Keapernick > Dalton

I'd give that pick a B+
kaep seems to be the bigger project...the issue that should count in, if someone grades a pick, is "could we get the certain player at all?".
i heard that we needed a qb and we wanted to get dalton...but it seems like nobody wanted to draft for a normal price. so we went to the second-best. still better than nothing. job done.

No where in the post draft did I read we wanted Dalton, did the camera that was in the niners board room show them disappointed when he cam off the board-no. From all indications before and after the draft the niners wanted Kaep. They could have taken Gabbert, but Harbaugh didn't feel like Gabbert as the man. As far as evaluating talent, I'll side with Harbaugh over Maddog (no offense) and I am glad we didn't take him.

As for Smith, Smith played all over. Only straight line speed? Did you see the video where he ran down and caught Kaep himself on one play and batted down a Kaep pass on another (and Kaeps not a short QB). Athletic is not only about strength and speed, it is about instincts too. Strength? It doesn't apply doing a rip move, or hand thrust. Speed, technique, and leverage does. Haven't we learned that judging a player solely by combine numbers is futile? Give me quickness over speed. Smith has it!

I didn't see Harbaugh's reaction to the Dalton pick, but here is a possibility of his thoughts, based on what has happened in the past. After the Bengals selected Dalton at 36, the Niners quickly trade up to get Kaepernick at 37. Does this mean that he believed Kaepernick was going to go soon before the 45th pick? Or does it mean that the Niners only had two top QB's left on their board, and they were waiting for the first to be selected before making a move upward? Or does it mean that they hoped Dalton would fall to them, but then had to make a quick trade to secure the next QB on their board? We will probably never know.

What I said before the draft is that the Niners would be better off bypassing the QB position entirely until the mid-late rounds, and see if Harbaugh could make something work with Alex Smith. He already trusted Smith would be on the roster by preparing to hand him the playbook, so he was confident he would be on the team.

So, what happens if the still young, and still talented Alex Smith begins to develop. The tools are all there, better than any QB in this draft. It is matter of putting it all together. What happens if Smith does develop and move into the top 15 QB's in the league in 2011. He finished the season really well, and is slated to be the starter anyways.

I would jump up and down with joy Personally I don't care how we get a franchise QB, just want one. Also you can never have enough good QBs on the roster.
Originally posted by dwett:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by communist:
Originally posted by Hitman49:
Keapernick > Dalton

I'd give that pick a B+
kaep seems to be the bigger project...the issue that should count in, if someone grades a pick, is "could we get the certain player at all?".
i heard that we needed a qb and we wanted to get dalton...but it seems like nobody wanted to draft for a normal price. so we went to the second-best. still better than nothing. job done.

No where in the post draft did I read we wanted Dalton, did the camera that was in the niners board room show them disappointed when he cam off the board-no. From all indications before and after the draft the niners wanted Kaep. They could have taken Gabbert, but Harbaugh didn't feel like Gabbert as the man. As far as evaluating talent, I'll side with Harbaugh over Maddog (no offense) and I am glad we didn't take him.

As for Smith, Smith played all over. Only straight line speed? Did you see the video where he ran down and caught Kaep himself on one play and batted down a Kaep pass on another (and Kaeps not a short QB). Athletic is not only about strength and speed, it is about instincts too. Strength? It doesn't apply doing a rip move, or hand thrust. Speed, technique, and leverage does. Haven't we learned that judging a player solely by combine numbers is futile? Give me quickness over speed. Smith has it!

I didn't see Harbaugh's reaction to the Dalton pick, but here is a possibility of his thoughts, based on what has happened in the past. After the Bengals selected Dalton at 36, the Niners quickly trade up to get Kaepernick at 37. Does this mean that he believed Kaepernick was going to go soon before the 45th pick? Or does it mean that the Niners only had two top QB's left on their board, and they were waiting for the first to be selected before making a move upward? Or does it mean that they hoped Dalton would fall to them, but then had to make a quick trade to secure the next QB on their board? We will probably never know.

What I said before the draft is that the Niners would be better off bypassing the QB position entirely until the mid-late rounds, and see if Harbaugh could make something work with Alex Smith. He already trusted Smith would be on the roster by preparing to hand him the playbook, so he was confident he would be on the team.

So, what happens if the still young, and still talented Alex Smith begins to develop. The tools are all there, better than any QB in this draft. It is matter of putting it all together. What happens if Smith does develop and move into the top 15 QB's in the league in 2011. He finished the season really well, and is slated to be the starter anyways.

I would jump up and down with joy Personally I don't care how we get a franchise QB, just want one. Also you can never have enough good QBs on the roster.

Agreed. But you would rather not burn a high second rounder on a QB. This team has struggled with second rounders since Shawntae Spencer was chosen.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by communist:
Originally posted by Hitman49:
Keapernick > Dalton

I'd give that pick a B+
kaep seems to be the bigger project...the issue that should count in, if someone grades a pick, is "could we get the certain player at all?".
i heard that we needed a qb and we wanted to get dalton...but it seems like nobody wanted to draft for a normal price. so we went to the second-best. still better than nothing. job done.

No where in the post draft did I read we wanted Dalton, did the camera that was in the niners board room show them disappointed when he cam off the board-no. From all indications before and after the draft the niners wanted Kaep. They could have taken Gabbert, but Harbaugh didn't feel like Gabbert as the man. As far as evaluating talent, I'll side with Harbaugh over Maddog (no offense) and I am glad we didn't take him.

As for Smith, Smith played all over. Only straight line speed? Did you see the video where he ran down and caught Kaep himself on one play and batted down a Kaep pass on another (and Kaeps not a short QB). Athletic is not only about strength and speed, it is about instincts too. Strength? It doesn't apply doing a rip move, or hand thrust. Speed, technique, and leverage does. Haven't we learned that judging a player solely by combine numbers is futile? Give me quickness over speed. Smith has it!

I didn't see Harbaugh's reaction to the Dalton pick, but here is a possibility of his thoughts, based on what has happened in the past. After the Bengals selected Dalton at 36, the Niners quickly trade up to get Kaepernick at 37. Does this mean that he believed Kaepernick was going to go soon before the 45th pick? Or does it mean that the Niners only had two top QB's left on their board, and they were waiting for the first to be selected before making a move upward? Or does it mean that they hoped Dalton would fall to them, but then had to make a quick trade to secure the next QB on their board? We will probably never know.

What I said before the draft is that the Niners would be better off bypassing the QB position entirely until the mid-late rounds, and see if Harbaugh could make something work with Alex Smith. He already trusted Smith would be on the roster by preparing to hand him the playbook, so he was confident he would be on the team.

So, what happens if the still young, and still talented Alex Smith begins to develop? The tools are all there, better than any QB in this draft. It is matter of putting it all together, and having confidence in himself. What happens to Kaepernick if Smith does develop and move into the top 15 QB's in the league in 2011? He finished the season really well, and is slated to be the starter anyways.

To me, the Niners may have found best value in trading up to five and grabbing Peterson....if the Cards were willing to make that deal. Most teams do not mind trading down. It would have cost us a third rounder, and we would have secured the top CB in the draft at the most valuable position this team needs right now.

Can of worms!! I raise the question, what would you prefer, Patrick Peterson or Aldon Smith and Chris Culliver?

  • dwett
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 629
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by dwett:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by communist:
Originally posted by Hitman49:
Keapernick > Dalton

I'd give that pick a B+
kaep seems to be the bigger project...the issue that should count in, if someone grades a pick, is "could we get the certain player at all?".
i heard that we needed a qb and we wanted to get dalton...but it seems like nobody wanted to draft for a normal price. so we went to the second-best. still better than nothing. job done.

No where in the post draft did I read we wanted Dalton, did the camera that was in the niners board room show them disappointed when he cam off the board-no. From all indications before and after the draft the niners wanted Kaep. They could have taken Gabbert, but Harbaugh didn't feel like Gabbert as the man. As far as evaluating talent, I'll side with Harbaugh over Maddog (no offense) and I am glad we didn't take him.

As for Smith, Smith played all over. Only straight line speed? Did you see the video where he ran down and caught Kaep himself on one play and batted down a Kaep pass on another (and Kaeps not a short QB). Athletic is not only about strength and speed, it is about instincts too. Strength? It doesn't apply doing a rip move, or hand thrust. Speed, technique, and leverage does. Haven't we learned that judging a player solely by combine numbers is futile? Give me quickness over speed. Smith has it!

I didn't see Harbaugh's reaction to the Dalton pick, but here is a possibility of his thoughts, based on what has happened in the past. After the Bengals selected Dalton at 36, the Niners quickly trade up to get Kaepernick at 37. Does this mean that he believed Kaepernick was going to go soon before the 45th pick? Or does it mean that the Niners only had two top QB's left on their board, and they were waiting for the first to be selected before making a move upward? Or does it mean that they hoped Dalton would fall to them, but then had to make a quick trade to secure the next QB on their board? We will probably never know.

What I said before the draft is that the Niners would be better off bypassing the QB position entirely until the mid-late rounds, and see if Harbaugh could make something work with Alex Smith. He already trusted Smith would be on the roster by preparing to hand him the playbook, so he was confident he would be on the team.

So, what happens if the still young, and still talented Alex Smith begins to develop. The tools are all there, better than any QB in this draft. It is matter of putting it all together. What happens if Smith does develop and move into the top 15 QB's in the league in 2011. He finished the season really well, and is slated to be the starter anyways.

I would jump up and down with joy Personally I don't care how we get a franchise QB, just want one. Also you can never have enough good QBs on the roster.

Agreed. But you would rather not burn a high second rounder on a QB. This team has struggled with second rounders since Shawntae Spencer was chosen.

Oh I agree with you there but there are so may uncertainties out there. At this point all I can hope for is that this draft class and our FA signings will help propel the Niners back to the elite status, we all took for granted for so long.

I'm sure if the organization was so sure about Smith they would not have picked Kaep in the second, but there are still questions. All I can hope for is that some one takes this team to the next level. I guess I'm overly hopeful about our current coaching staff. Just feel that players development not where they were picked will matter most in the Niners future.
Originally posted by Kalen49ers:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by communist:
Originally posted by Hitman49:
Keapernick > Dalton

I'd give that pick a B+
kaep seems to be the bigger project...the issue that should count in, if someone grades a pick, is "could we get the certain player at all?".
i heard that we needed a qb and we wanted to get dalton...but it seems like nobody wanted to draft for a normal price. so we went to the second-best. still better than nothing. job done.

No where in the post draft did I read we wanted Dalton, did the camera that was in the niners board room show them disappointed when he cam off the board-no. From all indications before and after the draft the niners wanted Kaep. They could have taken Gabbert, but Harbaugh didn't feel like Gabbert as the man. As far as evaluating talent, I'll side with Harbaugh over Maddog (no offense) and I am glad we didn't take him.

As for Smith, Smith played all over. Only straight line speed? Did you see the video where he ran down and caught Kaep himself on one play and batted down a Kaep pass on another (and Kaeps not a short QB). Athletic is not only about strength and speed, it is about instincts too. Strength? It doesn't apply doing a rip move, or hand thrust. Speed, technique, and leverage does. Haven't we learned that judging a player solely by combine numbers is futile? Give me quickness over speed. Smith has it!

I didn't see Harbaugh's reaction to the Dalton pick, but here is a possibility of his thoughts, based on what has happened in the past. After the Bengals selected Dalton at 36, the Niners quickly trade up to get Kaepernick at 37. Does this mean that he believed Kaepernick was going to go soon before the 45th pick? Or does it mean that the Niners only had two top QB's left on their board, and they were waiting for the first to be selected before making a move upward? Or does it mean that they hoped Dalton would fall to them, but then had to make a quick trade to secure the next QB on their board? We will probably never know.

What I said before the draft is that the Niners would be better off bypassing the QB position entirely until the mid-late rounds, and see if Harbaugh could make something work with Alex Smith. He already trusted Smith would be on the roster by preparing to hand him the playbook, so he was confident he would be on the team.

So, what happens if the still young, and still talented Alex Smith begins to develop? The tools are all there, better than any QB in this draft. It is matter of putting it all together, and having confidence in himself. What happens to Kaepernick if Smith does develop and move into the top 15 QB's in the league in 2011? He finished the season really well, and is slated to be the starter anyways.

To me, the Niners may have found best value in trading up to five and grabbing Peterson....if the Cards were willing to make that deal. Most teams do not mind trading down. It would have cost us a third rounder, and we would have secured the top CB in the draft at the most valuable position this team needs right now.

Can of worms!! I raise the question, what would you prefer, Patrick Peterson or Aldon Smith and Chris Culliver?


its a valid question if he establishes himself as a top 15 qb this year we should definitally sign him for another year and if he does good again i say we franchise him
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by Kalen49ers:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by communist:
Originally posted by Hitman49:
Keapernick > Dalton

I'd give that pick a B+
kaep seems to be the bigger project...the issue that should count in, if someone grades a pick, is "could we get the certain player at all?".
i heard that we needed a qb and we wanted to get dalton...but it seems like nobody wanted to draft for a normal price. so we went to the second-best. still better than nothing. job done.

No where in the post draft did I read we wanted Dalton, did the camera that was in the niners board room show them disappointed when he cam off the board-no. From all indications before and after the draft the niners wanted Kaep. They could have taken Gabbert, but Harbaugh didn't feel like Gabbert as the man. As far as evaluating talent, I'll side with Harbaugh over Maddog (no offense) and I am glad we didn't take him.

As for Smith, Smith played all over. Only straight line speed? Did you see the video where he ran down and caught Kaep himself on one play and batted down a Kaep pass on another (and Kaeps not a short QB). Athletic is not only about strength and speed, it is about instincts too. Strength? It doesn't apply doing a rip move, or hand thrust. Speed, technique, and leverage does. Haven't we learned that judging a player solely by combine numbers is futile? Give me quickness over speed. Smith has it!

I didn't see Harbaugh's reaction to the Dalton pick, but here is a possibility of his thoughts, based on what has happened in the past. After the Bengals selected Dalton at 36, the Niners quickly trade up to get Kaepernick at 37. Does this mean that he believed Kaepernick was going to go soon before the 45th pick? Or does it mean that the Niners only had two top QB's left on their board, and they were waiting for the first to be selected before making a move upward? Or does it mean that they hoped Dalton would fall to them, but then had to make a quick trade to secure the next QB on their board? We will probably never know.

What I said before the draft is that the Niners would be better off bypassing the QB position entirely until the mid-late rounds, and see if Harbaugh could make something work with Alex Smith. He already trusted Smith would be on the roster by preparing to hand him the playbook, so he was confident he would be on the team.

So, what happens if the still young, and still talented Alex Smith begins to develop? The tools are all there, better than any QB in this draft. It is matter of putting it all together, and having confidence in himself. What happens to Kaepernick if Smith does develop and move into the top 15 QB's in the league in 2011? He finished the season really well, and is slated to be the starter anyways.

To me, the Niners may have found best value in trading up to five and grabbing Peterson....if the Cards were willing to make that deal. Most teams do not mind trading down. It would have cost us a third rounder, and we would have secured the top CB in the draft at the most valuable position this team needs right now.

Can of worms!! I raise the question, what would you prefer, Patrick Peterson or Aldon Smith and Chris Culliver?


its a valid question if he establishes himself as a top 15 qb this year we should definitally sign him for another year and if he does good again i say we franchise him

Harbaugh is not a miracle worker. Have we all not seen enough of Alex Smith yet?

Rolling to the right and throwing ball away, throwing bullets to guys less than 5 yards away, missing wide open targets (Norris week 1 remember?), overthrowing short out routes. I can understand if we keep Alex and he plays while Kaepernick sits and learns. But Alex won't ever be a franchise tag kind of guy.
Originally posted by Kalen49ers:
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by Kalen49ers:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by communist:
Originally posted by Hitman49:
Keapernick > Dalton

I'd give that pick a B+
kaep seems to be the bigger project...the issue that should count in, if someone grades a pick, is "could we get the certain player at all?".
i heard that we needed a qb and we wanted to get dalton...but it seems like nobody wanted to draft for a normal price. so we went to the second-best. still better than nothing. job done.

No where in the post draft did I read we wanted Dalton, did the camera that was in the niners board room show them disappointed when he cam off the board-no. From all indications before and after the draft the niners wanted Kaep. They could have taken Gabbert, but Harbaugh didn't feel like Gabbert as the man. As far as evaluating talent, I'll side with Harbaugh over Maddog (no offense) and I am glad we didn't take him.

As for Smith, Smith played all over. Only straight line speed? Did you see the video where he ran down and caught Kaep himself on one play and batted down a Kaep pass on another (and Kaeps not a short QB). Athletic is not only about strength and speed, it is about instincts too. Strength? It doesn't apply doing a rip move, or hand thrust. Speed, technique, and leverage does. Haven't we learned that judging a player solely by combine numbers is futile? Give me quickness over speed. Smith has it!

I didn't see Harbaugh's reaction to the Dalton pick, but here is a possibility of his thoughts, based on what has happened in the past. After the Bengals selected Dalton at 36, the Niners quickly trade up to get Kaepernick at 37. Does this mean that he believed Kaepernick was going to go soon before the 45th pick? Or does it mean that the Niners only had two top QB's left on their board, and they were waiting for the first to be selected before making a move upward? Or does it mean that they hoped Dalton would fall to them, but then had to make a quick trade to secure the next QB on their board? We will probably never know.

What I said before the draft is that the Niners would be better off bypassing the QB position entirely until the mid-late rounds, and see if Harbaugh could make something work with Alex Smith. He already trusted Smith would be on the roster by preparing to hand him the playbook, so he was confident he would be on the team.

So, what happens if the still young, and still talented Alex Smith begins to develop? The tools are all there, better than any QB in this draft. It is matter of putting it all together, and having confidence in himself. What happens to Kaepernick if Smith does develop and move into the top 15 QB's in the league in 2011? He finished the season really well, and is slated to be the starter anyways.

To me, the Niners may have found best value in trading up to five and grabbing Peterson....if the Cards were willing to make that deal. Most teams do not mind trading down. It would have cost us a third rounder, and we would have secured the top CB in the draft at the most valuable position this team needs right now.

Can of worms!! I raise the question, what would you prefer, Patrick Peterson or Aldon Smith and Chris Culliver?


its a valid question if he establishes himself as a top 15 qb this year we should definitally sign him for another year and if he does good again i say we franchise him

Harbaugh is not a miracle worker. Have we all not seen enough of Alex Smith yet?

Rolling to the right and throwing ball away, throwing bullets to guys less than 5 yards away, missing wide open targets (Norris week 1 remember?), overthrowing short out routes. I can understand if we keep Alex and he plays while Kaepernick sits and learns. But Alex won't ever be a franchise tag kind of guy.

im not saying when it happens its if


and i think its possible granted the last time alex had an offensive HC was college he owned