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MadDog's Final Wrap Up Grade for Niners

  • Wodwo
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 8,104
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by LAFortyNinerfan:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Interesting listening to Razzano and playing speed saying that some teams will put the players fastest 40-time on their board so if he ran a 4.3 at the combine, that's what the team would grade the player by but when he was with the Niners, he said they put the players in-game 40-time.

So, I guess scouts will have a stopwatch on hand and time a player during a game or if the film is raw footage with no speed altercations, then they time when viewing the film. That's very interesting.

What he means is like the GOAT, Mr. Rice, people rave about Rice, except his 40 shied away the teams, but Bill Watched tape and said he never say anyone catche Rice from behind.

However, I have said before, teams should time them with their pads on.

I, for the life of me, have never understood why they run in just shorts and a t-shirt on a track field. What part of the game is that?

I have advocated for years now that in addition to wearing pads and a helmet, players, depending on their position, should begin running the combine forty in a two-point, three-point, or four point stance. I would also time players in specific on the field drills.

Funk Dat!

Keep the combine the way it is. It's just ritual and entertainment now, anyway. Take it for what it is and get what you can from it... the educated people know what matters and what doesn't when it comes to evaluations.

All you need to know you can get from game film, IMO. Well, that and interviews/medical.

That's why I'd have to disagree with you about Aldon Smith. The kid is just a natural pass rusher. I don't need his shuttle time or cone time to tell me he can change direction well enough to make one of the top tackles in this class look silly (Solder). I've seen it with my own two eyes.

He's just got a different way of beating linemen than other rushers do. He's really upright and doesn't have a lot of bend to turn the corner, but that's not his game. He uses violent hand punch to beat the tackle at their own game (since his arms are usually longer than theirs) and has a quick sidestep which he combines to create separation.

The drills at the combine don't really account for his style. Just because he doesn't fit your mold doesn't mean he can't get the job done. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

I personally think that his skillset is suited to rushing from a standing position. Hell, he's an upright rusher to start anyway, right? Lulz.

Point is, he has the tools to succeed. You make him sound like a stiff, unathletic, waste of space.

Remember this: Aldon Smith played last season on a broken leg. You know he lost some time in his training during the season because of that. You know he must have been playing catch-up getting back into his normal shape (while adding 10 lbs. to his playing weight), so his combine measurables are probably not as good as they would have been.

Anyway, he can do a standing backflip. I'm sold.

link
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by destroyer:
Your analysis is pretty weak. There is a good reason that scouts spend a whole year in there evaluations of potential draft picks. They study every inch of game film from high school through college, and talk to every coach that came in contact with that person. You read what other's have written and put your own spin on the info as do most analysts. Case in point you gave Aldon Smith a C grade when most scouting departments had him going at #6 through #15' which is an A or A- grade. Where did your info come from for a C grade, draft media I'm sure, not real evaluation. Also a big named "big college" player does not equal NFL success, and likewise a "small program" obscure player does not mean a lesser talent. We have to trust our scouting department to correctly evaluate those prospects wherever they come from, and neither you or I are really qualified to do that!
I give your evaluation a D+.

I had Smith going to the Texans at 11, but that doesn't mean he will end up being the 11th best player in this draft....or 7th where the Niners selected. Please re-read my critique of the player in this thread.

Famous or infamous players do not matter to me in my projections and evaluations. Some of the players I believe will have an excellent chance for success are ones that most college football fans do not know.

Gotta admit you had Iupati flagged months before the Senior Bowl.

I loved Iupati from a couple years back, and he showed a lot this year. I rarely promote the idea of using a mid-first rounder on an interior lineman, but he stood out as a dominant player, one that has a shot at a Pro-Bowl berth.
Originally posted by Wodwo:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by LAFortyNinerfan:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Interesting listening to Razzano and playing speed saying that some teams will put the players fastest 40-time on their board so if he ran a 4.3 at the combine, that's what the team would grade the player by but when he was with the Niners, he said they put the players in-game 40-time.

So, I guess scouts will have a stopwatch on hand and time a player during a game or if the film is raw footage with no speed altercations, then they time when viewing the film. That's very interesting.

What he means is like the GOAT, Mr. Rice, people rave about Rice, except his 40 shied away the teams, but Bill Watched tape and said he never say anyone catche Rice from behind.

However, I have said before, teams should time them with their pads on.

I, for the life of me, have never understood why they run in just shorts and a t-shirt on a track field. What part of the game is that?

I have advocated for years now that in addition to wearing pads and a helmet, players, depending on their position, should begin running the combine forty in a two-point, three-point, or four point stance. I would also time players in specific on the field drills.

Funk Dat!

Keep the combine the way it is. It's just ritual and entertainment now, anyway. Take it for what it is and get what you can from it... the educated people know what matters and what doesn't when it comes to evaluations.

All you need to know you can get from game film, IMO. Well, that and interviews/medical.

That's why I'd have to disagree with you about Aldon Smith. The kid is just a natural pass rusher. I don't need his shuttle time or cone time to tell me he can change direction well enough to make one of the top tackles in this class look silly (Solder). I've seen it with my own two eyes.

He's just got a different way of beating linemen than other rushers do. He's really upright and doesn't have a lot of bend to turn the corner, but that's not his game. He uses violent hand punch to beat the tackle at their own game (since his arms are usually longer than theirs) and has a quick sidestep which he combines to create separation.

The drills at the combine don't really account for his style. Just because he doesn't fit your mold doesn't mean he can't get the job done. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

I personally think that his skillset is suited to rushing from a standing position. Hell, he's an upright rusher to start anyway, right? Lulz.

Point is, he has the tools to succeed. You make him sound like a stiff, unathletic, waste of space.

Remember this: Aldon Smith played last season on a broken leg. You know he lost some time in his training during the season because of that. You know he must have been playing catch-up getting back into his normal shape (while adding 10 lbs. to his playing weight), so his combine measurables are probably not as good as they would have been.

Anyway, he can do a standing backflip. I'm sold.

link

I never stated Smith was unathletic. I stated that for the 7th overall, you really want an elite athlete. And, the numbers show, to me, that he is a solid straightline rusher, but doesn't have the elite physical skills to be worthy of the 7th overall. I want a guy who has violent hands, but also a guy who can bend. Guys who are one-trick ponies just can't cut it in the NFL.

A couple of years ago, I was really high on Brian Orakpo. I saw a complete player, a man, enter the league. That is the value I want from a pash rusher, someone who is not a project, but a guy who can compete at a very high level from Day One, and has shown that he can beat a blocker in a wide variety of ways.

I just don't see that from Aldon Smith right now, and while he may be able to develop those skills, the risk is too high for the 7th overall, in this position on the field. He is raw, like sushi, and we have gambled big on him.
Originally posted by Wodwo:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by LAFortyNinerfan:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Interesting listening to Razzano and playing speed saying that some teams will put the players fastest 40-time on their board so if he ran a 4.3 at the combine, that's what the team would grade the player by but when he was with the Niners, he said they put the players in-game 40-time.

So, I guess scouts will have a stopwatch on hand and time a player during a game or if the film is raw footage with no speed altercations, then they time when viewing the film. That's very interesting.

What he means is like the GOAT, Mr. Rice, people rave about Rice, except his 40 shied away the teams, but Bill Watched tape and said he never say anyone catche Rice from behind.

However, I have said before, teams should time them with their pads on.

I, for the life of me, have never understood why they run in just shorts and a t-shirt on a track field. What part of the game is that?

I have advocated for years now that in addition to wearing pads and a helmet, players, depending on their position, should begin running the combine forty in a two-point, three-point, or four point stance. I would also time players in specific on the field drills.

Funk Dat!

Keep the combine the way it is. It's just ritual and entertainment now, anyway. Take it for what it is and get what you can from it... the educated people know what matters and what doesn't when it comes to evaluations.

All you need to know you can get from game film, IMO. Well, that and interviews/medical.

That's why I'd have to disagree with you about Aldon Smith. The kid is just a natural pass rusher. I don't need his shuttle time or cone time to tell me he can change direction well enough to make one of the top tackles in this class look silly (Solder). I've seen it with my own two eyes.

He's just got a different way of beating linemen than other rushers do. He's really upright and doesn't have a lot of bend to turn the corner, but that's not his game. He uses violent hand punch to beat the tackle at their own game (since his arms are usually longer than theirs) and has a quick sidestep which he combines to create separation.

The drills at the combine don't really account for his style. Just because he doesn't fit your mold doesn't mean he can't get the job done. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

I personally think that his skillset is suited to rushing from a standing position. Hell, he's an upright rusher to start anyway, right? Lulz.

Point is, he has the tools to succeed. You make him sound like a stiff, unathletic, waste of space.

Remember this: Aldon Smith played last season on a broken leg. You know he lost some time in his training during the season because of that. You know he must have been playing catch-up getting back into his normal shape (while adding 10 lbs. to his playing weight), so his combine measurables are probably not as good as they would have been.

Anyway, he can do a standing backflip. I'm sold.

link

Great post and nice story too!
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Wodwo:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by LAFortyNinerfan:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Interesting listening to Razzano and playing speed saying that some teams will put the players fastest 40-time on their board so if he ran a 4.3 at the combine, that's what the team would grade the player by but when he was with the Niners, he said they put the players in-game 40-time.

So, I guess scouts will have a stopwatch on hand and time a player during a game or if the film is raw footage with no speed altercations, then they time when viewing the film. That's very interesting.

What he means is like the GOAT, Mr. Rice, people rave about Rice, except his 40 shied away the teams, but Bill Watched tape and said he never say anyone catche Rice from behind.

However, I have said before, teams should time them with their pads on.

I, for the life of me, have never understood why they run in just shorts and a t-shirt on a track field. What part of the game is that?

I have advocated for years now that in addition to wearing pads and a helmet, players, depending on their position, should begin running the combine forty in a two-point, three-point, or four point stance. I would also time players in specific on the field drills.

Funk Dat!

Keep the combine the way it is. It's just ritual and entertainment now, anyway. Take it for what it is and get what you can from it... the educated people know what matters and what doesn't when it comes to evaluations.

All you need to know you can get from game film, IMO. Well, that and interviews/medical.

That's why I'd have to disagree with you about Aldon Smith. The kid is just a natural pass rusher. I don't need his shuttle time or cone time to tell me he can change direction well enough to make one of the top tackles in this class look silly (Solder). I've seen it with my own two eyes.

He's just got a different way of beating linemen than other rushers do. He's really upright and doesn't have a lot of bend to turn the corner, but that's not his game. He uses violent hand punch to beat the tackle at their own game (since his arms are usually longer than theirs) and has a quick sidestep which he combines to create separation.

The drills at the combine don't really account for his style. Just because he doesn't fit your mold doesn't mean he can't get the job done. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

I personally think that his skillset is suited to rushing from a standing position. Hell, he's an upright rusher to start anyway, right? Lulz.

Point is, he has the tools to succeed. You make him sound like a stiff, unathletic, waste of space.

Remember this: Aldon Smith played last season on a broken leg. You know he lost some time in his training during the season because of that. You know he must have been playing catch-up getting back into his normal shape (while adding 10 lbs. to his playing weight), so his combine measurables are probably not as good as they would have been.

Anyway, he can do a standing backflip. I'm sold.

link

Great post and nice story too!

+1

He sure looks and sounds like an elite athlete to me!
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Wodwo:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by LAFortyNinerfan:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Interesting listening to Razzano and playing speed saying that some teams will put the players fastest 40-time on their board so if he ran a 4.3 at the combine, that's what the team would grade the player by but when he was with the Niners, he said they put the players in-game 40-time.

So, I guess scouts will have a stopwatch on hand and time a player during a game or if the film is raw footage with no speed altercations, then they time when viewing the film. That's very interesting.
HU
What he means is like the GOAT, Mr. Rice, people rave about Rice, except his 40 shied away the teams, but Bill Watched tape and said he never say anyone catche Rice from behind.

However, I have said before, teams should time them with their pads on.

I, for the life of me, have never understood why they run in just shorts and a t-shirt on a track field. What part of the game is that?

I have advocated for years now that in addition to wearing pads and a helmet, players, depending on their position, should begin running the combine forty in a two-point, three-point, or four point stance. I would also time players in specific on the field drills.

Funk Dat!

Keep the combine the way it is. It's just ritual and entertainment now, anyway. Take it for what it is and get what you can from it... the educated people know what matters and what doesn't when it comes to evaluations.

All you need to know you can get from game film, IMO. Well, that and interviews/medical.

That's why I'd have to disagree with you about Aldon Smith. The kid is just a natural pass rusher. I don't need his shuttle time or cone time to tell me he can change direction well enough to make one of the top tackles in this class look silly (Solder). I've seen it with my own two eyes.

He's just got a different way of beating linemen than other rushers do. He's really upright and doesn't have a lot of bend to turn the corner, but that's not his game. He uses violent hand punch to beat the tackle at their own game (since his arms are usually longer than theirs) and has a quick sidestep which he combines to create separation.

The drills at the combine don't really account for his style. Just because he doesn't fit your mold doesn't mean he can't get the job done. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

I personally think that his skillset is suited to rushing from a standing position. Hell, he's an upright rusher to start anyway, right? Lulz.

Point is, he has the tools to succeed. You make him sound like a stiff, unathletic, waste of space.

Remember this: Aldon Smith played last season on a broken leg. You know he lost some time in his training during the season because of that. You know he must have been playing catch-up getting back into his normal shape (while adding 10 lbs. to his playing weight), so his combine measurables are probably not as good as they would have been.

Anyway, he can do a standing backflip. I'm sold.

link

Great post and nice story too!

+1

He sure looks and sounds like an elite athlete to me!
Agree
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by Wodwo:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by LAFortyNinerfan:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Interesting listening to Razzano and playing speed saying that some teams will put the players fastest 40-time on their board so if he ran a 4.3 at the combine, that's what the team would grade the player by but when he was with the Niners, he said they put the players in-game 40-time.

So, I guess scouts will have a stopwatch on hand and time a player during a game or if the film is raw footage with no speed altercations, then they time when viewing the film. That's very interesting.

What he means is like the GOAT, Mr. Rice, people rave about Rice, except his 40 shied away the teams, but Bill Watched tape and said he never say anyone catche Rice from behind.

However, I have said before, teams should time them with their pads on.

I, for the life of me, have never understood why they run in just shorts and a t-shirt on a track field. What part of the game is that?

I have advocated for years now that in addition to wearing pads and a helmet, players, depending on their position, should begin running the combine forty in a two-point, three-point, or four point stance. I would also time players in specific on the field drills.

Funk Dat!

Keep the combine the way it is. It's just ritual and entertainment now, anyway. Take it for what it is and get what you can from it... the educated people know what matters and what doesn't when it comes to evaluations.

All you need to know you can get from game film, IMO. Well, that and interviews/medical.

That's why I'd have to disagree with you about Aldon Smith. The kid is just a natural pass rusher. I don't need his shuttle time or cone time to tell me he can change direction well enough to make one of the top tackles in this class look silly (Solder). I've seen it with my own two eyes.

He's just got a different way of beating linemen than other rushers do. He's really upright and doesn't have a lot of bend to turn the corner, but that's not his game. He uses violent hand punch to beat the tackle at their own game (since his arms are usually longer than theirs) and has a quick sidestep which he combines to create separation.

The drills at the combine don't really account for his style. Just because he doesn't fit your mold doesn't mean he can't get the job done. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

I personally think that his skillset is suited to rushing from a standing position. Hell, he's an upright rusher to start anyway, right? Lulz.

Point is, he has the tools to succeed. You make him sound like a stiff, unathletic, waste of space.

Remember this: Aldon Smith played last season on a broken leg. You know he lost some time in his training during the season because of that. You know he must have been playing catch-up getting back into his normal shape (while adding 10 lbs. to his playing weight), so his combine measurables are probably not as good as they would have been.

Anyway, he can do a standing backflip. I'm sold.

link

I never stated Smith was unathletic. I stated that for the 7th overall, you really want an elite athlete. And, the numbers show, to me, that he is a solid straightline rusher, but doesn't have the elite physical skills to be worthy of the 7th overall. I want a guy who has violent hands, but also a guy who can bend. Guys who are one-trick ponies just can't cut it in the NFL.

A couple of years ago, I was really high on Brian Orakpo. I saw a complete player, a man, enter the league. That is the value I want from a pash rusher, someone who is not a project, but a guy who can compete at a very high level from Day One, and has shown that he can beat a blocker in a wide variety of ways.

I just don't see that from Aldon Smith right now, and while he may be able to develop those skills, the risk is too high for the 7th overall, in this position on the field. He is raw, like sushi, and we have gambled big on him.

Doesn't make you wrong, but Sapp and McGinest totally disagree with you. Today on NFL Network they had a whole segment dedicated to Smith. They talked about his freakish reach, powerful club, swivel hips and a shoulder dip "that you just can't teach," in Sapp's words.

No doubt you know a lot more about the draft prospects than I do, but since drafting him I've watched every video I can get my hands on. I'm not sure why you think he only has straight line speed? Most of the sacks I've watched show him clubing the Oline and getting around him before the defender even knows whats happening. And yes, he does have straight line speed, unlike Lawson, the QB has no chance of getting away once that guy is in the backfield.

Warning: May cause errection

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d81fb7a1e/Field-demo-Aldon-Smith

[ Edited by Oakland-Niner on May 6, 2011 at 20:22:00 ]
Mad Dog thought Adam Carriker should have been the pick over Willis, and he thought Derek Smith was a good player. I'd take his analysis with a heavy grain of salt. Dude has no clue what he is talking about.
Originally posted by TheSaboteur:
Mad Dog thought Adam Carriker should have been the pick over Willis, and he thought Derek Smith was a good player. I'd take his analysis with a heavy grain of salt. Dude has no clue what he is talking about.

You have 16 posts. How do you know what MD's predictions were in years past?
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Originally posted by TheSaboteur:
Mad Dog thought Adam Carriker should have been the pick over Willis, and he thought Derek Smith was a good player. I'd take his analysis with a heavy grain of salt. Dude has no clue what he is talking about.

You have 16 posts. How do you know what MD's predictions were in years past?

Forgot my old password. Had to make a new account. Thanks for wondering though.
Originally posted by TheSaboteur:
Mad Dog thought Adam Carriker should have been the pick over Willis, and he thought Derek Smith was a good player. I'd take his analysis with a heavy grain of salt. Dude has no clue what he is talking about.



Here's the greatness of Derek Smith who expert football analyst MadDog thinks was a good player.


Look at that ability to get trucked! Best in the league!

[ Edited by TheSaboteur on May 6, 2011 at 20:38:47 ]
Originally posted by TheSaboteur:
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Originally posted by TheSaboteur:
Mad Dog thought Adam Carriker should have been the pick over Willis, and he thought Derek Smith was a good player. I'd take his analysis with a heavy grain of salt. Dude has no clue what he is talking about.

You have 16 posts. How do you know what MD's predictions were in years past?

Forgot my old password. Had to make a new account. Thanks for wondering though.

Hey - you're welcome. Thanks for being sarcastic, too.

Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Originally posted by TheSaboteur:
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Originally posted by TheSaboteur:
Mad Dog thought Adam Carriker should have been the pick over Willis, and he thought Derek Smith was a good player. I'd take his analysis with a heavy grain of salt. Dude has no clue what he is talking about.

You have 16 posts. How do you know what MD's predictions were in years past?

Forgot my old password. Had to make a new account. Thanks for wondering though.

Hey - you're welcome. Thanks for being sarcastic, too.


Did I get another warning for "being sarcastic"? lmao.
Originally posted by TheSaboteur:
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Originally posted by TheSaboteur:
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Originally posted by TheSaboteur:
Mad Dog thought Adam Carriker should have been the pick over Willis, and he thought Derek Smith was a good player. I'd take his analysis with a heavy grain of salt. Dude has no clue what he is talking about.

You have 16 posts. How do you know what MD's predictions were in years past?

Forgot my old password. Had to make a new account. Thanks for wondering though.

Hey - you're welcome. Thanks for being sarcastic, too.


Did I get another warning for "being sarcastic"? lmao.

Not at all. But you are about to be banned for being a jerk. lmao.