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MadDog's Final Wrap Up Grade for Niners

Total fail. "Draft experts", what a joke. And why would you base your so called "skill" (used loosely, BELIEVE ME) on how many players you predicted to be drafted? All you clowns missed on 50 picks. That's damn near 20% of the entire draft. So you go out on a limb and predict that guys with 1st-4th round grades get drafted in a 7 round draft?? WOW, good job. I predict you all need to meet a girl and engage in sexual activity with her. Seriously. And that I would grade an A+++
Originally posted by jnew62:
Total fail. "Draft experts", what a joke. And why would you base your so called "skill" (used loosely, BELIEVE ME) on how many players you predicted to be drafted? All you clowns missed on 50 picks. That's damn near 20% of the entire draft. So you go out on a limb and predict that guys with 1st-4th round grades get drafted in a 7 round draft?? WOW, good job. I predict you all need to meet a girl and engage in sexual activity with her. Seriously. And that I would grade an A+++

It's more like 1-5 and a half rounds. And that's not bad at all. After the 3rd round, most fans have never heard of the players drafted.
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[ Edited by communist on May 3, 2011 at 21:02:28 ]
Originally posted by jnew62:
Total fail. "Draft experts", what a joke. And why would you base your so called "skill" (used loosely, BELIEVE ME) on how many players you predicted to be drafted? All you clowns missed on 50 picks. That's damn near 20% of the entire draft. So you go out on a limb and predict that guys with 1st-4th round grades get drafted in a 7 round draft?? WOW, good job. I predict you all need to meet a girl and engage in sexual activity with her. Seriously. And that I would grade an A+++

haha
  • fryet
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 2,918
I am pretty sure that MadDog is married. (:

Mods are going to have a lot of work cleaning up this thread (I guess they are asleep right now (: ).

As for what if Alex Smith does great? Having 2 good QBs is a great problem to have. First of Alex, tends to get injured so having a good backup is important. In addition, if Colin can play, the 49ers can trade him for additional draftpicks or players. The great thing about being a second rounder, is that the 49ers have not invested a huge sum into him, so it will be easy to trade him to another team.

And, of course, if Alex doesn't do well, then having a good backup taking the reigns is a great thing. I wish we had that option this year.
The dirty secret for the webzone draft experts is how they evaluate players.

Do they watch coaches tape?
Do they go to pro days?
Do they talk to NFL scouts?
Do they talk to NFL coaches?
Do they talk to college coaches?
Do they talk to the players themselves?
ect ect ect

Nope......all their information comes from the people they are "competing" against.

I respect them though takes a lot of work reading all the articles and going through the process. It brings the webzone a nice summary of whats being written leading up to the draft.
At first I was disappointed at mad dog s grade for the draft. But if I put myself outside of my inner shell they make sense. Basically our 1st 2 picks need to pan out in the next 3 years to change the grade.

I find the C grade rough for the 1st overall grade bc of the rumors that Dallas and Houston liked Smith. I also think Maddog liked Blaine more than the majority , including JH and many NFL teams. But the QB need is fair to knock it down 1 letter grade, unless Kap is groomed to 1st round quality AND Blaine, Jake, Ponder produce less. Also if Smith under produces in the pass rush.

C grade for Kap is fair if you REALLY think Dalton is that much of a better pick, short term and long term. 3rd round and on is a crap shoot IMO so grades mean nothing to me.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by communist:
Originally posted by Hitman49:
Keapernick > Dalton

I'd give that pick a B+
kaep seems to be the bigger project...the issue that should count in, if someone grades a pick, is "could we get the certain player at all?".
i heard that we needed a qb and we wanted to get dalton...but it seems like nobody wanted to draft for a normal price. so we went to the second-best. still better than nothing. job done.

No where in the post draft did I read we wanted Dalton, did the camera that was in the niners board room show them disappointed when he cam off the board-no. From all indications before and after the draft the niners wanted Kaep. They could have taken Gabbert, but Harbaugh didn't feel like Gabbert as the man. As far as evaluating talent, I'll side with Harbaugh over Maddog (no offense) and I am glad we didn't take him.

As for Smith, Smith played all over. Only straight line speed? Did you see the video where he ran down and caught Kaep himself on one play and batted down a Kaep pass on another (and Kaeps not a short QB). Athletic is not only about strength and speed, it is about instincts too. Strength? It doesn't apply doing a rip move, or hand thrust. Speed, technique, and leverage does. Haven't we learned that judging a player solely by combine numbers is futile? Give me quickness over speed. Smith has it!

I didn't see Harbaugh's reaction to the Dalton pick, but here is a possibility of his thoughts, based on what has happened in the past. After the Bengals selected Dalton at 36, the Niners quickly trade up to get Kaepernick at 37. Does this mean that he believed Kaepernick was going to go soon before the 45th pick? Or does it mean that the Niners only had two top QB's left on their board, and they were waiting for the first to be selected before making a move upward? Or does it mean that they hoped Dalton would fall to them, but then had to make a quick trade to secure the next QB on their board? We will probably never know.

What I said before the draft is that the Niners would be better off bypassing the QB position entirely until the mid-late rounds, and see if Harbaugh could make something work with Alex Smith. He already trusted Smith would be on the roster by preparing to hand him the playbook, so he was confident he would be on the team.

So, what happens if the still young, and still talented Alex Smith begins to develop? The tools are all there, better than any QB in this draft. It is matter of putting it all together, and having confidence in himself. What happens to Kaepernick if Smith does develop and move into the top 15 QB's in the league in 2011? He finished the season really well, and is slated to be the starter anyways.

To me, the Niners may have found best value in trading up to five and grabbing Peterson....if the Cards were willing to make that deal. Most teams do not mind trading down. It would have cost us a third rounder, and we would have secured the top CB in the draft at the most valuable position this team needs right now.

Can of worms!! I raise the question, what would you prefer, Patrick Peterson or Aldon Smith and Chris Culliver?

no way zona is trading that pick and no way to the 49ers so the number 5 pick was off limits to the 49ers and I am sure they knew this. The 49ers had no where to go but to keep the pick at numer 7 after Atlanta had made that gift to the Browns. Thats what the 49ers were ticked off at. So they played it safe and took the player that they needed and they needed a pass rusher very very badly. I am okay with this pick. Round 2? Crazy stuff happens in round two when NE starts it off and it seems like the 49ers wanted to make a deal at the end of the 1st round with NO TAKERS! When the 49ers saw that the Bengals wasted no time in picking the QB that EVERYONE KNEW they wanted, the 49ers wasted no time and traded up to get the QB that THEY WANTED. To me I am okay with this. You do not know what the Raiders and trade happy Washington willl end up doing. Its clear to me that the 49ers and coach JH wanted him and were able to make it happen. If thats the guy you want go and get him. To MD and the others Good Job. Thanks. I think the 49ers had a good draft. Years from now we shall see how good it was. Thats the fun thing about the draft and thats what I enjoy, NOTHING IS PERFECT and a FOR SURE DEAL IN LIFE. Its like watching Kids grow up. Lets see what happens. We have a Young QB who runs well and sees the field well, he looks very good to me under pressure and has a strong arm. He's fun to watch. He needs a few seasons.......Let's see what happens.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by communist:
Originally posted by Hitman49:
Keapernick > Dalton

I'd give that pick a B+
kaep seems to be the bigger project...the issue that should count in, if someone grades a pick, is "could we get the certain player at all?".
i heard that we needed a qb and we wanted to get dalton...but it seems like nobody wanted to draft for a normal price. so we went to the second-best. still better than nothing. job done.

No where in the post draft did I read we wanted Dalton, did the camera that was in the niners board room show them disappointed when he cam off the board-no. From all indications before and after the draft the niners wanted Kaep. They could have taken Gabbert, but Harbaugh didn't feel like Gabbert as the man. As far as evaluating talent, I'll side with Harbaugh over Maddog (no offense) and I am glad we didn't take him.

As for Smith, Smith played all over. Only straight line speed? Did you see the video where he ran down and caught Kaep himself on one play and batted down a Kaep pass on another (and Kaeps not a short QB). Athletic is not only about strength and speed, it is about instincts too. Strength? It doesn't apply doing a rip move, or hand thrust. Speed, technique, and leverage does. Haven't we learned that judging a player solely by combine numbers is futile? Give me quickness over speed. Smith has it!

I didn't see Harbaugh's reaction to the Dalton pick, but here is a possibility of his thoughts, based on what has happened in the past. After the Bengals selected Dalton at 36, the Niners quickly trade up to get Kaepernick at 37. Does this mean that he believed Kaepernick was going to go soon before the 45th pick? Or does it mean that the Niners only had two top QB's left on their board, and they were waiting for the first to be selected before making a move upward? Or does it mean that they hoped Dalton would fall to them, but then had to make a quick trade to secure the next QB on their board? We will probably never know.

What I said before the draft is that the Niners would be better off bypassing the QB position entirely until the mid-late rounds, and see if Harbaugh could make something work with Alex Smith. He already trusted Smith would be on the roster by preparing to hand him the playbook, so he was confident he would be on the team.

So, what happens if the still young, and still talented Alex Smith begins to develop? The tools are all there, better than any QB in this draft. It is matter of putting it all together, and having confidence in himself. What happens to Kaepernick if Smith does develop and move into the top 15 QB's in the league in 2011? He finished the season really well, and is slated to be the starter anyways.

To me, the Niners may have found best value in trading up to five and grabbing Peterson....if the Cards were willing to make that deal. Most teams do not mind trading down. It would have cost us a third rounder, and we would have secured the top CB in the draft at the most valuable position this team needs right now.

Can of worms!! I raise the question, what would you prefer, Patrick Peterson or Aldon Smith and Chris Culliver?

That's assuming Arizona was even listening to offers. If Alex Smith becomes a top 15 QB then I will be overjoyed. It's better to have an abundance of talent at the QB position. Just ask the Philadelphia Eagles, or the Bill Walsh era 9ers. Securing a QB for the future had to be done because despite all the pleasantries, Alex Smith still hasn't signed. Risk mitigation.

What I will say is working in Harbaugh's favor is that he has some built up fan equity. He'll likely be able to get the fans behind Alex again. He is also deserving of the benefit of the doubt this time around because he has such a good history of developing players, QB's in particular, at least at the collegiate level.

[ Edited by bzborow1 on May 4, 2011 at 08:38:41 ]
Originally posted by bzborow1:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by communist:
Originally posted by Hitman49:
Keapernick > Dalton

I'd give that pick a B+
kaep seems to be the bigger project...the issue that should count in, if someone grades a pick, is "could we get the certain player at all?".
i heard that we needed a qb and we wanted to get dalton...but it seems like nobody wanted to draft for a normal price. so we went to the second-best. still better than nothing. job done.

No where in the post draft did I read we wanted Dalton, did the camera that was in the niners board room show them disappointed when he cam off the board-no. From all indications before and after the draft the niners wanted Kaep. They could have taken Gabbert, but Harbaugh didn't feel like Gabbert as the man. As far as evaluating talent, I'll side with Harbaugh over Maddog (no offense) and I am glad we didn't take him.

As for Smith, Smith played all over. Only straight line speed? Did you see the video where he ran down and caught Kaep himself on one play and batted down a Kaep pass on another (and Kaeps not a short QB). Athletic is not only about strength and speed, it is about instincts too. Strength? It doesn't apply doing a rip move, or hand thrust. Speed, technique, and leverage does. Haven't we learned that judging a player solely by combine numbers is futile? Give me quickness over speed. Smith has it!

I didn't see Harbaugh's reaction to the Dalton pick, but here is a possibility of his thoughts, based on what has happened in the past. After the Bengals selected Dalton at 36, the Niners quickly trade up to get Kaepernick at 37. Does this mean that he believed Kaepernick was going to go soon before the 45th pick? Or does it mean that the Niners only had two top QB's left on their board, and they were waiting for the first to be selected before making a move upward? Or does it mean that they hoped Dalton would fall to them, but then had to make a quick trade to secure the next QB on their board? We will probably never know.

What I said before the draft is that the Niners would be better off bypassing the QB position entirely until the mid-late rounds, and see if Harbaugh could make something work with Alex Smith. He already trusted Smith would be on the roster by preparing to hand him the playbook, so he was confident he would be on the team.

So, what happens if the still young, and still talented Alex Smith begins to develop? The tools are all there, better than any QB in this draft. It is matter of putting it all together, and having confidence in himself. What happens to Kaepernick if Smith does develop and move into the top 15 QB's in the league in 2011? He finished the season really well, and is slated to be the starter anyways.

To me, the Niners may have found best value in trading up to five and grabbing Peterson....if the Cards were willing to make that deal. Most teams do not mind trading down. It would have cost us a third rounder, and we would have secured the top CB in the draft at the most valuable position this team needs right now.

Can of worms!! I raise the question, what would you prefer, Patrick Peterson or Aldon Smith and Chris Culliver?

That's assuming Arizona was even listening to offers. If Alex Smith becomes a top 15 QB then I will be overjoyed. It's better to have an abundance of talent at the QB position. Just ask the Philadelphia Eagles, or the Bill Walsh era 9ers. Securing a QB for the future had to be done because despite all the pleasantries, Alex Smith still hasn't signed. Risk mitigation.

What I will say is working in Harbaugh's favor is that he has some built up fan equity. He'll likely be able to get the fans behind Alex again. He is also deserving of the benefit of the doubt this time around because he has such a good history of developing players, QB's in particular, at least at the collegiate level.

Zona wouldnt even take a 1st, 2nd, and 4th from the Lions. Really, there was no point even in their losing Peterson.
The grades people give teams per the QB they draft and how "NFL Ready" that QB is is laughable.

I don't care if you compare everything Ponder was accustomed to and did to everything Kaepernick was accustomed to and did in college: both are equally "NFL Ready".

All of these QB's if they are good enough, won't be producing at an NFL level until 3 years from now. For example, we had Shaun Hill, Tim Rattay and Alex Smith 3 and every single one of them, no matter how much experience they had, always were coached different drop speeds and types of drops from each OC as the offense changed. They all had to learn the same new things. The only advantage one may have had over another is understanding the concept of the playbook quicker.

Under Center or not, none of these guys have an advantage over another because all of them will be retaught per system they will play in. A 5 step drop in Martz' system is different than a 5 step drop in Walsh's system.
Warnings have been issued for posts in this thread.

Please (1) stay on topic (this is NOT another A. Smith thread) and (2) attack the post and not the poster.

Thanks.
Originally posted by jnew62:
Total fail. "Draft experts", what a joke. And why would you base your so called "skill" (used loosely, BELIEVE ME) on how many players you predicted to be drafted? All you clowns missed on 50 picks. That's damn near 20% of the entire draft. So you go out on a limb and predict that guys with 1st-4th round grades get drafted in a 7 round draft?? WOW, good job. I predict you all need to meet a girl and engage in sexual activity with her. Seriously. And that I would grade an A+++

Are you referring to the "pros," like Kiper, etc., or are you attacking and insulting MadDog and OTC? I'm unclear. Please advise.

NVM. It is clearly a personal attack.

[ Edited by NineFourNiner on May 4, 2011 at 10:58:40 ]
Originally posted by jnew62:
Total fail. "Draft experts", what a joke. And why would you base your so called "skill" (used loosely, BELIEVE ME) on how many players you predicted to be drafted? All you clowns missed on 50 picks. That's damn near 20% of the entire draft. So you go out on a limb and predict that guys with 1st-4th round grades get drafted in a 7 round draft?? WOW, good job. I predict you all need to meet a girl and engage in sexual activity with her. Seriously. And that I would grade an A+++

Thanks for your kind thoughts. As for the subject at hand, it would appear that having 50 misses on players drafted sounds like a really bad year. However, if you take a look at the experts, who get paid for a living, nobody beat OTC (49 misses) and I this year (51 misses). It was the same the year before.

For example, Russ Lande of the Sporting News, had 68 players that were not drafted. Sideline Scouting had 62 missed players. Most of the professional experts had in the late 50's to mid-60's in players off their board. Once again, these are guys with inside information, professional contacts, and plenty of time and resources to make an accurate prediction of who will be selected. If you threw out a name of a player before the draft process, more than likely, OTC, and maybe myself, could give you the height/weight of the player, school attended, position in college, projected position in the NFL, combine time, Senior Bowl week grade, and particular team and system the player may play best under...all within a few seconds, without rummaging through the internet to find the info. Call it a sickness, call it insanity, but for us, it is fun.

The draft is a very humbling process, attempting to predict the round of each player selected, and who will be selected. It is a skill that takes time and energy, and is a sort of hobby for many. We simply take X-Box time and throw it to the street.

Once again, we thank you for your kind note.
  • fryet
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 2,918
MadDog, do you have your analysis from previous drafts? I would love to look back and compare.