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DeMarcus Ware vs Aldon Smith

Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by TXNinerFan52:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by TXNinerFan52:
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by TXNinerFan52:
Since the 49ers surprise most people and drafted Aldon Smith in the 1st round I’ve watched some of Missouri’s games on ESPN3.com. I don’t think Aldon will be the stud All Pro OLB we hoped he would be. Aldon Smith doesn’t have the quick get off a stud NFL pass rusher needs to be dominate in the NFL. While watching a few Missouri games I’ve noticed the coaches would line Aldon up at DT on third down instead of DE. They would also stunt to the inside from his DE position. Unless Missouri coaches don’t have a clue this doesn’t sound like a dominate NFL pass rusher to me. I like Aldon Smith’s size and athleticism he reminds me more of an Andre Carter than a DeMarcus Ware. I think Aldon Smith can be an average to good pass rusher, but I don’t think he will be a great pass rusher.

dont look at last years games he was playing with a broken leg throughout the year

Was he playing with a broken leg at the beginning of the year?

[b]I can't believe how many people say things and be clueless of the information that has been given by the beat writters and others. Doesn't anyone read the news before making a comment anymore? Mizzou wanted to be put aldon at DT at times to put all their best pass rushers at times. They also felt with his size and arm length, he could alter a QBs thowing if not force the QB to pull the ball back down or bat the ball down. They also felt if anyone could do it it be Smith. This has been stated by the Tiger's coaches.[/B]

Yes he was playing hurt, on a broken fibula, which caused him to miss 3 games completely. Yet he still got 6 sacks and how many times was he responsible for other thinks that are not seen stat was like, pressures, batted balls, causing a QB to pull the ball back down? Or interceptions? Now, I never had a broken fibula, but things like shin splints and turf toe I do know aren't fun, imagine playing at the pro level. If you don't think it takes away from your "A" game then obviously you are an arm chair QB who has never played organized sports at the high school level at least. Pee wee football don't mean squat. Imagine if he was healthy like his frosh year? He would have had double digit sacks-I am 99 percent sure.


I watch games to form my own opinion. I don't need a beat writer or commentators to tell me what I see. On Aldon Smith moving to DT on 3rd down, name me the last stud outside pass rusher who moved to DT on 3rd down to rush the passer? All the good ones I can remember stayed on the outside on 3rd down to rush the passer.

Then you should learn to read-I stated why the coaches at Mizzou moved him inside, but if you can't discern what I said, I'll state it better. They felt Aldon was a better pass rusher than the regular DT and that he could handle the job. second they wanted all their best pass rushers in the game when required. The coaches felt the others couldn't handle it, but Smith could. That is why they moved him inside at times-duh.

Just because you watch a few games to form an opinion, well nothing personnal, but if you really don't know what to look for, then how can one judge. I am honest I am not a pro, but after the mizzou coaches and others that explained certain things about smith you get a better idea of what the niners staff are looking at and why. Did you take into account he mad some interceptions. When watching the games, did you watch how many times a QB had the pass batted down or had to pull it back down when Aldon raised his hands? Lets be honest-did you watch the game and only focused on Smith every play?

To rehash-he played up and he played down, he played outside and inside on the line, he lined up as OLB, meaning he can be placed all over the field and cause matchup problems. Lineup along side Justin (inside or out) or on the opposite side of the field. Also if you "read" he played hurt all last year and missed games and still got 6 sacks, you tell me that shouldn't affect a player? Then you never played any sports. Even the GOAT (rice), the next year after he blew his leg, wasn't the same untill a year after the fact.

Plus he is coming out as a redshirt sophmore.

WildBill I'm insulted, I thought I knew what I was looking at. If I had a stud outside pass rusher I wouldn't move him to the inside to get my best pass rushing linemen in the game because when you do that you limit his pass rushing ability by moving him inside because now he has less room to operate and the guard can get help from the center or maybe the tackle if you have a good blocking TE.

When I think of a stud outside pass rusher I think of someone who can beat the T around the edge. I don't think Aldon is that type of pass rusher. If your outside pass rusher can beat the T with an outside rush then it is a lot easier to beat the T with an inside rush or a bull rush.

Yes WildBill, I normally concentrate on a particular player when I'm watched games on line (espn3) or on TV (CBS Sports Network) after the college season has ended.

WildBill go to www.espn3.com and watch games from last year and form your own opinion about the players the 49ers drafted. There are about 100 college games from last year on line you can watch. You can watch Curtis Holcomb, the 49ers last pick from Florida A&M play on espn3.com if you like.
We have always had guys that can run the arc... run themselves right outside of the play as the QB steps up nice and cozy in the pocket.

What we have not had are rush LBs that can force their way back inside on OTs or simply push their OT right towards the QB. What we have also not had enough of is interior penetration between the B + A gaps. Justin and occasionally RayMac are the only ones who get this)

Maybe... just maybe Aldon will take some of that OL attention away from Justin.
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by TXNinerFan52:
Originally posted by walker807:
After rewatching some video on him I am still very excited. This guy does a great job of keeping his arms extended, reading the play and closing on the ball. He has very strong hands and effectively uses his arm length to beat shorter armed interior lineman on inside pass rushes. His ability to cut out and then back in and freeze up lineman is impressive and then he is strong enough to club them out of the way Reggie White style. His sacks aren't coming as much around the edge untouched like Von Miller but through the offensive line. I expect he will get moved all over the place on passing downs

Damn, how do I give you a REP. I'm excited about having Aldon Smith too I just don't think he's going to be a great outside pass rusher. I think he will get some sacks from the outside, but he won't put fear in the hearts of LT in the NFL. I expect him to get a few sacks off of stunts too.

If he can get 10-12 sacks a year (maybe not his first since he has no TC to learn), then I am happy and he is worth the 7th pick. He may not be feared, but if he can at least get double digit sacks, you can make an off. wonder where is Smith, and confuse them and say oh shoot he is over there. Then someone else can get sneak in like a P Willis, whose sack total might also double.

I think people also need to keep in mind that Mario took a year to realize his potential, and it may take Smitht the same with this lockout.

I think what were going to see is a different look each game depending on the opponent. Thats what is great about Aldon is that he can line up outside or inside. You may see a game where Aldon attacks the A and B gap a lot with PWilly mixed in too and Justin on the tackle. Or they can slide Justin inside and bring Aldon from the outside. I think it will all depend on the type of protection the offensive line is using and the personel but it gives the niners a lot of options
Right after Aldon Smith was drafted, Mike Mayock on NFLNetwork said that he'd attended Smith's proday and saw an "explosive" guy wiith a "unique set of pass rush skills." Mayock's only concern was a little stiffness in the hips on coverage, which Mayock acknowledged the Niners would not ask Smith to do alot of.

I'll take Mayocks' word for it. At least for now.
We should know what we have in Smith after the first year. Most dominant pass rushers have gotten 6+ sacks in their rookie campaign according to the MAiocco article.
blah blah blah
Originally posted by TXNinerFan52:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by TXNinerFan52:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by TXNinerFan52:
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by TXNinerFan52:
Since the 49ers surprise most people and drafted Aldon Smith in the 1st round I’ve watched some of Missouri’s games on ESPN3.com. I don’t think Aldon will be the stud All Pro OLB we hoped he would be. Aldon Smith doesn’t have the quick get off a stud NFL pass rusher needs to be dominate in the NFL. While watching a few Missouri games I’ve noticed the coaches would line Aldon up at DT on third down instead of DE. They would also stunt to the inside from his DE position. Unless Missouri coaches don’t have a clue this doesn’t sound like a dominate NFL pass rusher to me. I like Aldon Smith’s size and athleticism he reminds me more of an Andre Carter than a DeMarcus Ware. I think Aldon Smith can be an average to good pass rusher, but I don’t think he will be a great pass rusher.

dont look at last years games he was playing with a broken leg throughout the year

Was he playing with a broken leg at the beginning of the year?

[b]I can't believe how many people say things and be clueless of the information that has been given by the beat writters and others. Doesn't anyone read the news before making a comment anymore? Mizzou wanted to be put aldon at DT at times to put all their best pass rushers at times. They also felt with his size and arm length, he could alter a QBs thowing if not force the QB to pull the ball back down or bat the ball down. They also felt if anyone could do it it be Smith. This has been stated by the Tiger's coaches.[/B]

Yes he was playing hurt, on a broken fibula, which caused him to miss 3 games completely. Yet he still got 6 sacks and how many times was he responsible for other thinks that are not seen stat was like, pressures, batted balls, causing a QB to pull the ball back down? Or interceptions? Now, I never had a broken fibula, but things like shin splints and turf toe I do know aren't fun, imagine playing at the pro level. If you don't think it takes away from your "A" game then obviously you are an arm chair QB who has never played organized sports at the high school level at least. Pee wee football don't mean squat. Imagine if he was healthy like his frosh year? He would have had double digit sacks-I am 99 percent sure.


I watch games to form my own opinion. I don't need a beat writer or commentators to tell me what I see. On Aldon Smith moving to DT on 3rd down, name me the last stud outside pass rusher who moved to DT on 3rd down to rush the passer? All the good ones I can remember stayed on the outside on 3rd down to rush the passer.

Then you should learn to read-I stated why the coaches at Mizzou moved him inside, but if you can't discern what I said, I'll state it better. They felt Aldon was a better pass rusher than the regular DT and that he could handle the job. second they wanted all their best pass rushers in the game when required. The coaches felt the others couldn't handle it, but Smith could. That is why they moved him inside at times-duh.

Just because you watch a few games to form an opinion, well nothing personnal, but if you really don't know what to look for, then how can one judge. I am honest I am not a pro, but after the mizzou coaches and others that explained certain things about smith you get a better idea of what the niners staff are looking at and why. Did you take into account he mad some interceptions. When watching the games, did you watch how many times a QB had the pass batted down or had to pull it back down when Aldon raised his hands? Lets be honest-did you watch the game and only focused on Smith every play?

To rehash-he played up and he played down, he played outside and inside on the line, he lined up as OLB, meaning he can be placed all over the field and cause matchup problems. Lineup along side Justin (inside or out) or on the opposite side of the field. Also if you "read" he played hurt all last year and missed games and still got 6 sacks, you tell me that shouldn't affect a player? Then you never played any sports. Even the GOAT (rice), the next year after he blew his leg, wasn't the same untill a year after the fact.

Plus he is coming out as a redshirt sophmore.

WildBill I'm insulted, I thought I knew what I was looking at. If I had a stud outside pass rusher I wouldn't move him to the inside to get my best pass rushing linemen in the game because when you do that you limit his pass rushing ability by moving him inside because now he has less room to operate and the guard can get help from the center or maybe the tackle if you have a good blocking TE.

When I think of a stud outside pass rusher I think of someone who can beat the T around the edge. I don't think Aldon is that type of pass rusher. If your outside pass rusher can beat the T with an outside rush then it is a lot easier to beat the T with an inside rush or a bull rush.

Yes WildBill, I normally concentrate on a particular player when I'm watched games on line (espn3) or on TV (CBS Sports Network) after the college season has ended.

WildBill go to www.espn3.com and watch games from last year and form your own opinion about the players the 49ers drafted. There are about 100 college games from last year on line you can watch. You can watch Curtis Holcomb, the 49ers last pick from Florida A&M play on espn3.com if you like.

Not insulting you, then again maybe I am, but you didn't read what I was saying the first time. His explosiveness was pretty much hampered by injury. While you may want the best rusher on the outside. think of it terms as a unit If they leave him on the outside and live the DT's in maybe the line on a scale of 1-10 is a 6.5. By taking out the DT and putting your best rushers in the game and moving Smith inside the pass force rush scale technically moves up to an 8 maybe. Say Aldon is an 8 as a rusher and the DT is a 6, but they have another DE who is a 7.5. On the that one side technically it now is a 15.5 instead of a 14. They move him inside because they feel he can handle it. That is what mizzou was trying to do. Is it any different with us? We try to put our best rushers in on obvious downs. Take out DT/NT move Justin inside.

Sometimes people strategize in ways you may not view following as textbook, but if you got the people you think can handle it then sometimes you do it. Sorry, but I have a busy life and don't want to view a whole game and have to wait for it to down load and not be able to FF .
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by TXNinerFan52:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by TXNinerFan52:
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by TXNinerFan52:
Since the 49ers surprise most people and drafted Aldon Smith in the 1st round I’ve watched some of Missouri’s games on ESPN3.com. I don’t think Aldon will be the stud All Pro OLB we hoped he would be. Aldon Smith doesn’t have the quick get off a stud NFL pass rusher needs to be dominate in the NFL. While watching a few Missouri games I’ve noticed the coaches would line Aldon up at DT on third down instead of DE. They would also stunt to the inside from his DE position. Unless Missouri coaches don’t have a clue this doesn’t sound like a dominate NFL pass rusher to me. I like Aldon Smith’s size and athleticism he reminds me more of an Andre Carter than a DeMarcus Ware. I think Aldon Smith can be an average to good pass rusher, but I don’t think he will be a great pass rusher.

dont look at last years games he was playing with a broken leg throughout the year

Was he playing with a broken leg at the beginning of the year?

[b]I can't believe how many people say things and be clueless of the information that has been given by the beat writters and others. Doesn't anyone read the news before making a comment anymore? Mizzou wanted to be put aldon at DT at times to put all their best pass rushers at times. They also felt with his size and arm length, he could alter a QBs thowing if not force the QB to pull the ball back down or bat the ball down. They also felt if anyone could do it it be Smith. This has been stated by the Tiger's coaches.[/B]

Yes he was playing hurt, on a broken fibula, which caused him to miss 3 games completely. Yet he still got 6 sacks and how many times was he responsible for other thinks that are not seen stat was like, pressures, batted balls, causing a QB to pull the ball back down? Or interceptions? Now, I never had a broken fibula, but things like shin splints and turf toe I do know aren't fun, imagine playing at the pro level. If you don't think it takes away from your "A" game then obviously you are an arm chair QB who has never played organized sports at the high school level at least. Pee wee football don't mean squat. Imagine if he was healthy like his frosh year? He would have had double digit sacks-I am 99 percent sure.


I watch games to form my own opinion. I don't need a beat writer or commentators to tell me what I see. On Aldon Smith moving to DT on 3rd down, name me the last stud outside pass rusher who moved to DT on 3rd down to rush the passer? All the good ones I can remember stayed on the outside on 3rd down to rush the passer.

Then you should learn to read-I stated why the coaches at Mizzou moved him inside, but if you can't discern what I said, I'll state it better. They felt Aldon was a better pass rusher than the regular DT and that he could handle the job. second they wanted all their best pass rushers in the game when required. The coaches felt the others couldn't handle it, but Smith could. That is why they moved him inside at times-duh.

Just because you watch a few games to form an opinion, well nothing personnal, but if you really don't know what to look for, then how can one judge. I am honest I am not a pro, but after the mizzou coaches and others that explained certain things about smith you get a better idea of what the niners staff are looking at and why. Did you take into account he mad some interceptions. When watching the games, did you watch how many times a QB had the pass batted down or had to pull it back down when Aldon raised his hands? Lets be honest-did you watch the game and only focused on Smith every play?

To rehash-he played up and he played down, he played outside and inside on the line, he lined up as OLB, meaning he can be placed all over the field and cause matchup problems. Lineup along side Justin (inside or out) or on the opposite side of the field. Also if you "read" he played hurt all last year and missed games and still got 6 sacks, you tell me that shouldn't affect a player? Then you never played any sports. Even the GOAT (rice), the next year after he blew his leg, wasn't the same untill a year after the fact.

Plus he is coming out as a redshirt sophmore.

Would you concede the point that he is more dynamic as a pass rusher inside, rather than outside, and that factor may make some individuals question whether he will be able to consistently provide a pass rush off the edge, if needed.

There is no question about his versatility, as he is probably the most versatile of the 3-4 OLB's in this draft (playing forward), outside of Miller.

I just don't see the consistent burst off the edge to make him a special player in this league, someone worthy of the 7th overall. There are flashes, but I don't see a player that will strike fear into OT's around the league.

Aldon Smith showed amazing explosion in his freshman year and was making offensive tackles look lost. I don't know why you are so stuck on him getting moved inside, that only shows he is strong enough to handle interior linemen on passing downs. This kid is 20 years old, 265 pounds and is a beast. There have been plenty of elite pass rushers without elite speed. Brian Orakpo, Terrell Suggs and Mario Williams are elite passrushers with the size and power to line up over the guard and still be terrors on the edge.

College tape does not show what the guy is going to be in the NFL it merely shows what he can currently do extremely well.
Originally posted by TXNinerFan52:

WildBill I'm insulted, I thought I knew what I was looking at. If I had a stud outside pass rusher I wouldn't move him to the inside to get my best pass rushing linemen in the game because when you do that you limit his pass rushing ability by moving him inside because now he has less room to operate and the guard can get help from the center or maybe the tackle if you have a good blocking TE.

When I think of a stud outside pass rusher I think of someone who can beat the T around the edge. I don't think Aldon is that type of pass rusher. If your outside pass rusher can beat the T with an outside rush then it is a lot easier to beat the T with an inside rush or a bull rush.

Yes WildBill, I normally concentrate on a particular player when I'm watched games on line (espn3) or on TV (CBS Sports Network) after the college season has ended.

WildBill go to www.espn3.com and watch games from last year and form your own opinion about the players the 49ers drafted. There are about 100 college games from last year on line you can watch. You can watch Curtis Holcomb, the 49ers last pick from Florida A&M play on espn3.com if you like.

First of all...if a guy can get a pass rush up the middle, he can get it from the outside.

Second, thanks for the link I didn't realize espn had that option to rewatch games...however I don't see a single Mizzu game from last year when Aldon was healthy, so what you're watching doesn't tell the full story.
Originally posted by genus49:
Originally posted by TXNinerFan52:

WildBill I'm insulted, I thought I knew what I was looking at. If I had a stud outside pass rusher I wouldn't move him to the inside to get my best pass rushing linemen in the game because when you do that you limit his pass rushing ability by moving him inside because now he has less room to operate and the guard can get help from the center or maybe the tackle if you have a good blocking TE.

When I think of a stud outside pass rusher I think of someone who can beat the T around the edge. I don't think Aldon is that type of pass rusher. If your outside pass rusher can beat the T with an outside rush then it is a lot easier to beat the T with an inside rush or a bull rush.

Yes WildBill, I normally concentrate on a particular player when I'm watched games on line (espn3) or on TV (CBS Sports Network) after the college season has ended.

WildBill go to www.espn3.com and watch games from last year and form your own opinion about the players the 49ers drafted. There are about 100 college games from last year on line you can watch. You can watch Curtis Holcomb, the 49ers last pick from Florida A&M play on espn3.com if you like.

First of all...if a guy can get a pass rush up the middle, he can get it from the outside.

Second, thanks for the link I didn't realize espn had that option to rewatch games...however I don't see a single Mizzu game from last year when Aldon was healthy, so what you're watching doesn't tell the full story.

Good point no wonder you are a genus.

[/b]

  • susweel
  • Hall of Nepal
  • Posts: 120,278
Watched some more film on him and I haven't seen him beat anybody with an outside pass rush move. Is he quick enough to do that ? and also isnt that kind of important for a guy who plays on the outside ?
Originally posted by susweel:
Watched some more film on him and I haven't seen him beat anybody with an outside pass rush move. Is he quick enough to do that ? and also isnt that kind of important for a guy who plays on the outside ?

I t think he's quick enough. the problem is he's tall and plays tall. He has to learn how to get lower and dip that inside shoulder when coming from the outside. This is what he needs to learn and be coached up on. That's why he's a project b/c nobody is sure how he will take to being coached up on a very critical part of his game. Time will tell.
Originally posted by susweel:
Watched some more film on him and I haven't seen him beat anybody with an outside pass rush move. Is he quick enough to do that ? and also isnt that kind of important for a guy who plays on the outside ?

I was poking around and didn't find anything of him in 2009 when, as a freshman, he recorded 11 sacks. He played 11 games at DE that year. Certainly some of the sacks had to be from the outside.

Then I got wondering if there's anything intrinsically better about being able to attack from the outside consistently vs. being able to attack from the inside.

There are some positives to an inside rush, you have a quick path to the QB or RB. And obviously if you make an opponent look for a certain move, it makes counter moves very effective. An inside rushing threat would make for some great stunts as well.

That being said, the more I read MadDog's stuff, the more I agree that taking Watt was the best way to go (moving Soap inside, the resultant luxury of being apathetic about signing Franklin, having cap room to sign FA's, two Justin Smith's on the line).
Originally posted by lamontb:
Originally posted by susweel:
Watched some more film on him and I haven't seen him beat anybody with an outside pass rush move. Is he quick enough to do that ? and also isnt that kind of important for a guy who plays on the outside ?

I t think he's quick enough. the problem is he's tall and plays tall. He has to learn how to get lower and dip that inside shoulder when coming from the outside. This is what he needs to learn and be coached up on. That's why he's a project b/c nobody is sure how he will take to being coached up on a very critical part of his game. Time will tell.

This was the main reason I liked Quinn over Smith. Quinn gets low and can stay low around the corner but Smith tends to stand up and use his strength to waltz around the OLinemen.

In Smith's defense, he was playing with/recovering from a broken leg.
[ Edited by dtg_9er on May 31, 2011 at 4:28 PM ]
  • susweel
  • Hall of Nepal
  • Posts: 120,278
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by lamontb:
Originally posted by susweel:
Watched some more film on him and I haven't seen him beat anybody with an outside pass rush move. Is he quick enough to do that ? and also isnt that kind of important for a guy who plays on the outside ?

I t think he's quick enough. the problem is he's tall and plays tall. He has to learn how to get lower and dip that inside shoulder when coming from the outside. This is what he needs to learn and be coached up on. That's why he's a project b/c nobody is sure how he will take to being coached up on a very critical part of his game. Time will tell.

This was the main reason I liked Quinn over Smith. Quinn gets low and can stay low around the corner but Smith tends to stand up and use his strength to waltz around the OLinemen.


same here
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