Originally posted by Rsrkshn:
Originally posted by WildBill:
There are so much intangibles to a QB's success, but 50% success rate in the first is misleading, if you don't know the numbers don't throw it out there like fact. There are so many gulliable people out there who will be stupid enough to use your info as fact. If it is your opinion then say that you are guessing.
The point of my post is that you no longer need to draft a QB in the top 10 like pre 80's. The need to draft a QB in the top 10 versus other (drafting later, trade, FA, etc) is not as dire, it is more glamourous-yes, and can solidify the position longer. Guys like Kurt Warner, Doug Williams, Drew Brees, Montana, Young, Brady, Bart Starr, Jim Plunket, 15 SB victories between them-I could go on.
What is more important is the OC and QB coach or good GM. Look at niners, Walsh, Holmgren and Shanahan. They were the reasons the niners had one of the longest reigns. As all niners I hope JH will reignite that.
Don't get me wrong, not saying QB is not important, just how you find it is not as dire as you think-that being a QB in the 10 ten. Especially if they are not top ten material.
Are you saying that Plunkett was not a top 10 pick? He was the first pick in his draft class.
You're also implying in your post that the QB is not so important; it's the coaches or the GM. That is incorrect IMO. The Niners had that long reign precisely because they had great QBs. The GM (Walsh) was instrumental in finding them and utilizing their talent, but even Walsh couldn't have done it with DeBerg as his QB. Which he acknowledged and went looking for a replacement. (Deberg did lead another team to the playoffs later, though).
If you're saying that its tough to find the talent and you have to have people in the FO that can, then yes I do agree with you. But as a rule those guys are identified earlier rather than later and your chances diminish the longer you wait. To the point that you're just plain lucky if you discover one late. A fluke.
Your also correct in that it takes efficient coaching to draw out what talent is there. No matter where you select it. Don't dispute you there. But the talent has to be there. "Can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear."
The point of my post is that
1) Plunkett came to the Raiders later and won a SB (AKA FA), yes he was a number one, but after initial success he faltered because the Pats did not add to the talent. The niners had him, but nothing till he got to the raiders. The same can be said about Doug Williams.
2) No, you need to learn to read the whole post. I did not say QB is not important! Just saying that picking up a SB winning QB or playoff QB can be had in many ways. Not always with a 10 pick. Again see my list. Providing you have a good staff. Deberg was in the playoffs, but he was tutored by Walsh. Walsh felt and wanted better thought and found it in Montana. If you ever saw Deberg play, you know he was good, but inconsistent many times. Yes-I did say it is more important to have a great coaches first, who can find the talent and develope them and make the most of them.
3) Young was a first rounder, but gotten by trade. Wanrer FA, Starr was not even considered until Lombardi came along (kind of like Martz and Warner.). How was Farve picked up by the Packers? Gee I wondered. Who coached him now?
4) To say it is a different era and not apply is wrong. It is like war yes you have tanks and rifles and artillery, but go to west point and they still use sun tzu's the art of war as the bible. Heavy calvary replaced by tanks, arrows replaced by artillary etc. High ground, interlacing fields of fire, ambush, etc. still the same. Point is you still need to find the talented QB (which can come from ANYWHERE and not just the top ten in the draft-that is what I am saying), develope him and give him good schemes that make use of his talents. Without the talent eveluators and coaches like Walsh and Bellicheats you would not have the history that is now. Look at pitts, the front office has stayed the course from the steel curtain era-suffered some let down inbetween was still successful.
Really need to read the whole and not just select lines.
[ Edited by WildBill on Apr 3, 2011 at 7:06 PM ]